Another library vent:

[Aubrey]

Oops, wrong forum!

 

In the children's section, how many books would you expect to find on:

 

1. Stonehenge

 

2. The Minoans

 

3. The Cretans?

 

Personally, I'd like to find at least one on ea of the latter two--checked out already is fine, I can request them (sorry, Heather!), & maybe 3-5 on Stonehenge. Am I crazy?

 

Our library has none of this in the kids' section, 1-2 on Stonehenge in the adult section, & nothing at all for the other 2. The branch close to me is open 4 days a week (who ever heard of a 4 day/wk library?). If that's not bad enough, they're only open for 3 hrs/day for 3 of those 4 days. :svengo:

 

Amazon is becoming a Siren song. :001_huh:

Edited September 24, 2011 by Aubrey

[Mimm]

Wow, is this a really small town? Like, really really really small? How far away is the next closest library?

[elegantlion]

I just checked. Our library has two non-fiction on Stonhenge, one youth one adult. None on the other subjects, at least not as individual books. I was surprised there was something on Stonehenge actually. Probably more for cultural relevance than historical curiosity.

 

Our library is an old small town library. I can check out antique books, has a wonderful classics section. It's almost like walking in a museum. I forgive a lot because of the feeling. Our previous library was just lousy.

[Aubrey]

Yeah, if it were a really, REALLY small town or something like that, I'd understand. This is a 3 story, state of the art central library in a relatively big city. There are also 2-3 branch libraries. I'm talking about what's avail in the system as a whole. :glare:

 

Next closest: about 30 min. Impractical for us at this juncture, between kids & car.

[Hedgehog]

I've noticed that the city libraries around here actually have less diversity of book stock than the libraries in towns. We go to a big city library once a week, and I'm not impressed with the selection of books there - we were struggling to find information on Monasticism for dd11's History last week. :001_huh:

[Heather in VA]

LOL - reserve them... by all means :-). I only don't like reserving when the book is already there. :-)

 

Anyway - I did a check of our libraries. We have 3 juvenile books on Stonehenge and nothing on the other two. And we are a huge library system. Although for the size of our library I am often surprised at how many classics and quality books are just not there but the 6 shelves of comic books and graphic novels are always there (not that there is anything wrong with that but at least have good books too).

 

It's sad.

 

Heather

[Mom22ns]

So I checked our library for comparison.

 

There are 4 Stonehenge books under Juvenile Literature plus 2 more fiction titles.

 

No juvenile titles on either of the other two.

 

I consider my library system excellent, so I guess I have to forgive yours too.

[MrsBasil]

I had to look. I'm using the online catalog for our county wide system. I can get any book from any library to my local library via the online request/hold system

 

We have 11 children's non-fiction and one easy non-fiction(not sure what the difference is) on Stonehenge. I can't speak to the quality of any of them, they were all published after 2002.

 

We have one book about the Island of Minotaur and other tales from ancient Crete and one DVD on the Ancient Aegeans, both for children. There appear to be some other subject keywords that lead to the Minoans, but indirectly. Shipwrecks, archeology etc.

 

Cretans turned up nothing.

[NanceXToo]

All I can say, is I'm so grateful for interlibrary loan!

[TKDmom]

That's ridiculous. I guess I should stop complaining about my library. :tongue_smilie: They've limited their hours but they're still open at least 8 hours a day, six days a week. I looked up Stonhenge, Minoans, and Crete and I got at least a dozen books of each in the Juvenile non-fiction section. It helps that I belong to county-wide library system with almost 20 branches. I'd hate life if I was limited to what was at my local library.

 

My only real problem with the library is that I cannot seem to avoid late fees. But it's not the library's fault that I have a brain made of mush...

[Aubrey]

That's ridiculous. I guess I should stop complaining about my library. :tongue_smilie: They've limited their hours but they're still open at least 8 hours a day, six days a week. I looked up Stonhenge, Minoans, and Crete and I got at least a dozen books of each in the Juvenile non-fiction section. It helps that I belong to county-wide library system with almost 20 branches. I'd hate life if I was limited to what was at my local library.

 

My only real problem with the library is that I cannot seem to avoid late fees. But it's not the library's fault that I have a brain made of mush...

 

Library Elf is a life-saver! I went from being the library's most wanted villain to less than $5 in overdue fees in a year or so.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Oops, wrong forum!

 

In the children's section, how many books would you expect to find on:

 

1. Stonehenge

 

2. The Minoans

 

3. The Cretans?

 

Personally, I'd like to find at least one on ea of the latter two--checked out already is fine, I can request them (sorry, Heather!), & maybe 3-5 on Stonehenge. Am I crazy?

 

Our library has none of this in the kids' section, 1-2 on Stonehenge in the adult section, & nothing at all for the other 2. The branch close to me is open 4 days a week (who ever heard of a 4 day/wk library?). If that's not bad enough, they're only open for 3 hrs/day for 3 of those 4 days. :svengo:

 

Amazon is becoming a Siren song. :001_huh:

 

Depends on the library. In a small system, I might not expect to find any on the subjects you mentioned. Or I might be happy to find some coverage in a larger book on the Greeks, or the Iron Age, or "mysteries of history", etc.

 

Libraries have tight resources and can't cover everything. And a study of the details of classical civilization is much less likely to get checked out than something on the Civil War or on a Native American tribe.

 

Our county system is large, well funded and well stocked. We don't have a Minoan specific title in Juvenile, but we do have one on Prehistory and one on Greeks that covers Minos. (I did do better when I searched for Knossos instead of Minoans. There are several books that come up then. But even then, most of the books were on a wider topic than just Minos.)

[Cleopatra]

 

It's sad.

 

Heather

 

:iagree:

 

Oh, don't get me started ........ :tongue_smilie:

 

Ours had 2 on Stonehenge, 1 on the Minoans and 3 on Crete. At first glance, this seems slightly inadequate, but I have yet to mention that our library is directly linked with 23 other libraries! I can't count the times I have looked up a certain subject and have found nothing. I couldn't even find an unabridged version of The Count of Monte Cristo. It's pathetic. Whenever I put in a request to purchase with regards to a book, they never buy it but if I put in a request to purchase for a DVD, it is purchased immediately. :banghead:

 

Inter-library loans (which would be outside the 23 libraries directly available to us) are not an option; it takes about 1-2 months to get a request and by that time, what we are studying is loooong past!

 

I guess I should look on the bright side, they save me video rental fees but honestly, if I had to rely on libraries for reading materials, no one in our family would have become technically literate! :D

Edited September 26, 2011 by Cleopatra
Spelling & clarity

[Aubrey]

Ok, Minoans & Cretans might not have been the best examples. I"m partly frustrated because I spent HOURS researching what my library had avail before we moved. Now, all of that time is spent, wasted, moot. Not the new library's fault. But to add to that a total void of subjects that I'd like to cover? Ugh.

 

And come on, Stonehenge isn't obscure! Every kid is mystified & interested by that at some point, right? Right? It was actually one of the books on Stonehenge that completely converted my thinking about history books: they do need to be recently published & updated. History doesn't change, of course, but our understanding & discoveries do. I can't believe how much has been learned about Stonehenge since I was a kid. (Of course, maybe the books we were reading back then were 30 years old, too. :lol:)

 

Anyway...I did write down titles & summaries of some of the books I read last summer about Stonehenge, so worst case scenario, I at least have a starting point for picking one or two from Amazon. It's just that...this is something I want to spend a day or two on. Hardly worth *buying* a book. (See--I'm getting better about knowing how to stock my own shelves! Moving 12 bookcases worth of books a few times gives a body perspective.)

 

I've looked up titles for the next few weeks, & it's not as bad as the first trip, but boy. Seeing all the goodies at the next town over makes me so jealous. And the kid section is so...not for littles. Our last library was so nice, I would almost be able to take the kids up there to do school because the littles would have enough to look at/read/do w/out causing trouble. (Almost!)

 

And I thought our last library was pretty pathetic. :tongue_smilie:

[Kareni]

I have access to two libraries -- one is our local library (answers in red below), the other is a larger library in the next city for which we pay $120.00 a year for family access (answers in green below).

 

In the children's section, how many books would you expect to find on:

 

1. Stonehenge -- 3 non-fiction; 4 non-fiction

 

2. The Minoans -- 1 but not specifically on the Minoans; 5 non-fiction

 

3. The Cretans? -- 1 non-fiction; 8 non-fiction

 

 

 

Regards,

Kareni

[smillard00]

I have to take exception to the argument that libraries are limited and can't have everything. I think the point of a library is to have everything! They should have much more than we are able to have on our shelves at home. They have been collecting books for decades (centuries?) and have all of those lovely shelves on which to organize them. When a library (my local system, for example) has the resources to have more than a hundred Sponge Bob books, but can't find the shelf space for a copy of the Iliad, they aren't fulfilling their mission. Of course, if you really want to get the full picture of our library, you could proof-read their latest newsletter... :tongue_smilie:

[jillian]

My library is awful too. I'm coming from an amazing library system in WA state and this one is just torture. The books are all falling apart, it's small and even an inter-library-loan is MISERABLE to do. their search function is terrible. Overall, I sympathize

[jillian]

I have to take exception to the argument that libraries are limited and can't have everything. I think the point of a library is to have everything! They should have much more than we are able to have on our shelves at home. They have been collecting books for decades (centuries?) and have all of those lovely shelves on which to organize them. When a library (my local system, for example) has the resources to have more than a hundred Sponge Bob books, but can't find the shelf space for a copy of the Iliad, they aren't fulfilling their mission. Of course, if you really want to get the full picture of our library, you could proof-read their latest newsletter... :tongue_smilie:

omgosh this is my library system too eek

[Aubrey]

Really, if I had the money, a bad library would be my favorite thing: a personal invitation to order more books. :lol:

[curlylocks]

Our library is open:

 

Tues 1 - 7

Thurs 1 - 5:30

 

 

That's it...no books on the topics the OP mentioned. (and their catalog is not online)

 

The next nearest library is open:

 

M, T, & W 3 - 8

Thurs & Fri 12 - 5

Sat 10 -3

 

They have no books on the topics the OP mentioned. (and their catalog is not online)

 

Yes...I live in Mayberry. :tongue_smilie:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I have to take exception to the argument that libraries are limited and can't have everything. I think the point of a library is to have everything! They should have much more than we are able to have on our shelves at home. They have been collecting books for decades (centuries?) and have all of those lovely shelves on which to organize them. When a library (my local system, for example) has the resources to have more than a hundred Sponge Bob books, but can't find the shelf space for a copy of the Iliad, they aren't fulfilling their mission. Of course, if you really want to get the full picture of our library, you could proof-read their latest newsletter... :tongue_smilie:

 

Unfortunately while they might be bigger than a home library, they have neither infinite space nor funding. So they do have to make some choices.

 

And since they are serving more than just my family, they can't concentrate on homeschooling, militaria, imperial Russia, communist China, World War I, plants of Hawaii, classic literature, ancient Greece and Rome, American history, knitting and robotics like I do.

 

They also have to carry self help books for problems I don't have, car manuals for cars I don't own, lots of popular fiction that will never tempt me, and yes, Spongebob.

 

I personally would agree that a copy of the Illiad is more important and valuable than the same space or cost in Spongebob. But guess which one gets checked out more often? This is an issue that gets debated in library circles too. Do they stock what is "worthy" or what is popular? Is the role of the library to serve the circulation demands of its patrons or to provide access to books that serve a literary or other research purpose? In other words, do they give the people what they want or what they ought to have.

 

I think it should be a little bit of both, but it does feel like libraries are moving far more into being circulators of popular fiction with no judgement of value of any kind on what is made available. It used to be that a library would not consider it part of their mission to carry graphic novels (with a few exceptions for something like Tintin or graphic versions of classic literature) but definitely their mission to carry classic works of literature (both great books and good reads that are older). Now many libraries have a graphic novel and manga section that rivals their non fiction holdings for the same age group.

 

My best suggestion is to be involved with the library, as a volunteer, an active member of the Friends of the Library group or by going to board meetings and asking questions. They do have limits to resources and they can be influenced by those who take the time to do so. At our last base library, I was able to get the head librarian to order a number of good books that supported homeschooling, helped to put together a non-circulating homeschool reference shelf with tons of sample curriculum and had lots of conversations about what was really useful to homeschoolers as patrons.

 

(As an aside, I did set up and restocking for our recent Friends booksale. Had a great time with other people who love books and went home with about five boxes of great finds for around $100. Included high school textbooks, science and history books and tons of classic "good reads". Not to mention the set of Metropolitan Museum Seminars in Art self study guides for $10 that I found online for $200.)

[Mimm]

I got curious and logged onto my library's website...

 

Stonehenge- 3 children's books

The Minoans- 1 children's book tagged as being about the Minoans but not exclusively about them.

Cretans- Nothing here

 

Spongebob- 17 books, I didn't count DVDs

 

I've always considered my library to be adequate. Nothing amazing, I don't always find what I want, but I do find what I want often enough that I continue to use it. And they're veeery understanding about late books. ;)

[Aubrey]

Unfortunately while they might be bigger than a home library, they have neither infinite space nor funding. So they do have to make some choices.

 

Yep.

 

And since they are serving more than just my family, they can't concentrate on homeschooling, militaria, imperial Russia, communist China, World War I, plants of Hawaii, classic literature, ancient Greece and Rome, American history, knitting and robotics like I do.

 

Sure.

 

They also have to carry self help books for problems I don't have, car manuals for cars I don't own, lots of popular fiction that will never tempt me, and yes, Spongebob.

 

Ok.

 

I personally would agree that a copy of the Illiad is more important and valuable than the same space or cost in Spongebob. But guess which one gets checked out more often? This is an issue that gets debated in library circles too. Do they stock what is "worthy" or what is popular? Is the role of the library to serve the circulation demands of its patrons or to provide access to books that serve a literary or other research purpose? In other words, do they give the people what they want or what they ought to have.

 

Well...who's funding the library? It's not Blockbuster or Netflix. It's not there for *entertainment.* It's a public service paid for w/ tax dollars, which means that while Spongebob might BE there, his purpose should be justified--getting kids to read, for ex.

 

Imagine if we used the same argument for ps. We have to teach what kids/parents WANT. So K becomes a Spongebob marathon. 10th grade is a variety of wii classes. So few people want Algebra that they quit offering it.

 

I'd argue that we simply can't operate libraries on the assumption that their purpose is entertainment. The gov't doesn't have a responsibility to *entertain* its citizens but to *educate* them.

 

I think it should be a little bit of both, but it does feel like libraries are moving far more into being circulators of popular fiction with no judgement of value of any kind on what is made available. It used to be that a library would not consider it part of their mission to carry graphic novels (with a few exceptions for something like Tintin or graphic versions of classic literature) but definitely their mission to carry classic works of literature (both great books and good reads that are older). Now many libraries have a graphic novel and manga section that rivals their non fiction holdings for the same age group.

 

Exactly.

 

I clipped the part about volunteering, but let me ask you--did it make a difference wrt what was avail on the shelves? We've never lived anywhere long enough to try that approach. Even asking a library to order a book--sheesh, the one time I tried it, the guy couldn't understand what I was saying & kept repeating back to me the (similar) title of a popular book. I finally wrote it down for him, & the purchasing lady emailed me back that they already owned the popular title. :svengo:

 

Talking to librarians hasn't proved very effective anywhere I've ever lived. :001_huh:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I clipped the part about volunteering, but let me ask you--did it make a difference wrt what was avail on the shelves? We've never lived anywhere long enough to try that approach. Even asking a library to order a book--sheesh, the one time I tried it, the guy couldn't understand what I was saying & kept repeating back to me the (similar) title of a popular book. I finally wrote it down for him, & the purchasing lady emailed me back that they already owned the popular title. :svengo:

 

Talking to librarians hasn't proved very effective anywhere I've ever lived. :001_huh:

 

On the volunteering part:

 

I haven't been here long enough to know how much the Friends group can impact the collection. But to the extent that a Friends group contributes money or books to the library, they can have some good impact on what is in the collection. I've heard of Friends groups that raise money for specific collections. There's no reason why this couldn't include books useful for homeschoolers.

 

At our last library, it took the first year or so of chatting with the various librarians before they really warmed up to me (and for context, I was probably in the library 2-3 times a week).

 

To give the librarian the benefit of the doubt, I was often appalled at how badly teens behaved in the library. Playing tag, and being loud and rowdy. My favorite was the teen boy who ducked his head into the women's restroom, twice. When I told him not to go into the ladies' room, he started yelling at me in the middle of the library (I still wish that I'd called base security on him). Anyway, it was no wonder that the librarian seemed to be in a perpetual bad mood. And that was before you got to the fact that the most used part of the library was the internet computers, not any of the books.

 

One other thing that probably did really help me get on his good side was that I made a practice of sending in positive emails through the base comments website. These got routed through the base commander and then down to the head of the Morale, Welfare and Recreation department (a civilian) to the head librarian. I tried to do this anytime the librarians had been particularly helpful in getting a book from another library or in recommending something. Just checking quickly on my county website, there is a comments and complaints link.

 

I generally agree with you that there is a public welfare to libraries as sources of information and education that isn't present with mere entertainment. But then that might also be an argument against a host of adult fiction too. Is Spongebob worse than Stephen King or Nora Roberts or Jodi Picoult or Tom Clancy? And if the library justifies its existance and funding based on circulation and what circulates is cotton candy rather than meat, then should the librarians tell their patrons that they won't buy more cotton candy until the meat gets read?

 

Personally, I'm all for telling someone to get their Spongebob and People magazine and even Stephen King on their own dime. But mine isn't necessarily the popular view.

 

We've spent a lot of time outside the US, where our main source of books was our own shelves. I used to think that once we were back in the US, I could shed most of those books in favor of the library. But I'm not sure that I will be able to assume that the classics I want to have will be available in the future.

[In2why]

I have to take exception to the argument that libraries are limited and can't have everything. I think the point of a library is to have everything! They should have much more than we are able to have on our shelves at home. They have been collecting books for decades (centuries?) and have all of those lovely shelves on which to organize them. When a library (my local system, for example) has the resources to have more than a hundred Sponge Bob books, but can't find the shelf space for a copy of the Iliad, they aren't fulfilling their mission. Of course, if you really want to get the full picture of our library, you could proof-read their latest newsletter... :tongue_smilie:

 

 

This is my belief as well. I get fabulous books at our bi-annual book sales because they get rid of the books that we as homeschoolers probably prefer, to buy more and more junk books. Yet at the same time they are meeting the needs of the public, and you can tell by how often a book is checked out that the classics aren't important anymore in the popularity contest for shelf space.

[Aubrey]

Well, they're closing half the branches at the end of the year anyway. I just looked up 12 fiction titles for an upcoming unit for the kids. The library system as a whole has 3 of them.

 

It's ok, though. I like buying books. :D

[smillard00]

I like buying books too, but can't afford to buy all of the ones we want any more and to buy the new shelves to hold them. Our house is full of bookshelves! :001_smile: But really, the most difficult thing is that there are a lot of books we would like to use that are not easy to find to buy, but are supposedly sitting on library shelves, according to the writers of the curricula. Just not the shelves where I live...

 

I love holding real books in my hand, but all of this headache really makes me long for a day when the library books are all electronic and I can just access them with my computer. Think we could get the Library of Congress to do that for us??? We could call it a book preservation project to make a record of all of the old books before they disappear.

[Aubrey]

I love holding real books in my hand, but all of this headache really makes me long for a day when the library books are all electronic and I can just access them with my computer. Think we could get the Library of Congress to do that for us??? We could call it a book preservation project to make a record of all of the old books before they disappear.

 

There's a lot I love about digital books & ereaders, esp last time I moved & realized that there's a per-book cost associated w/ moving.

 

But I've got a Nook w/out color, so no kids' books. The formatting is sometimes wonky, even on full-price books. And the whole idea of needing electricity (even just for a charge) to READ kinda freaks me out. :lol: