Just the Messenger...You Can Drink Alchohol While Pregnant.

[Spy Car]

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Just for the record Bill, I am firmly convinced that if any man actually were pregnant for more than three or four weeks, he'd probably NEED Vodka tonics in order to survive! :D Sorry, you guys just aren't cut out for it.

 

Faith

 

No argument there :lol:

 

Bill

[Unscripted]

Yep- I totally did a glass or two of wine a week (not all on one night). One of the advantages of being catholic and having a catholic OB- I wasn't worried about sounding like I wanted to booze it up when I asked- lol!

[WishboneDawn]

:iagree:I can not imagine drinking while preg. WHY! is your selfishness so strong that you can not give up a couple of drinks a week to insure your childs safety. What if in 3,5,15yrs they 'decide' that they were wrong once again and the damage can never be undone. Believe me, I have seen and worked with FAS kids. Sad!

 

The whole point of this thread and the study I linked to is that there is no risk with light drinking during pregnancy. That FAS doesn't happen as a result of drinking alcohol but of drinking too much alcohol.

 

It's not about justifying our selfishness, it's about understanding the real risks rather then imagined fears when making decisions about what to do while pregnant.

[WishboneDawn]

My husband has FASD. His younger brother, who also has it, makes his living giving presentations/lectures about it.

 

Honestly, I don't know if my husband having it would make our children potentially more susceptible or not, but its simply not a chance I'm willing to take. I'm not about to tsk anyone for the odd glass of wine, etc. My situation and extended family culture is unique, and I realize how much of an impact that has on my decision making for ME in this situation.

 

I think that's totally fair.:)

[WishboneDawn]

Just like there was no evidence that smoking causes lung cancer.

 

Is there evidence showing that drinking in pregnancy does not affect the baby?

 

Did you check out the study???

[skirch]

After my amnio, I was sent home with instructions to have a glass of wine and go to bed.

 

I didn't do it only because it seemed such a waste to open a whole bottle for just one glass. :tongue_smilie:

[Unscripted]

The whole point of this thread and the study I linked to is that there is no risk with light drinking during pregnancy. That FAS doesn't happen as a result of drinking alcohol but of drinking too much alcohol.

 

It's not about justifying our selfishness, it's about understanding the real risks rather then imagined fears when making decisions about what to do while pregnant.

 

Oh geez... Now don't bring logic into the discussion- the hysteria is mote judgmental and fun! /sarcasm :D

[mommymilkies]

The whole point of this thread and the study I linked to is that there is no risk with light drinking during pregnancy. That FAS doesn't happen as a result of drinking alcohol but of drinking too much alcohol.

 

It's not about justifying our selfishness, it's about understanding the real risks rather then imagined fears when making decisions about what to do while pregnant.

 

:iagree: I also find it unfortunate that many Americans do not understand moderation. I have many alcoholics and drug addicts in my family. But I was taught that alcohol isn't evil and moderation is key from a young age. They even let me (gasp!) drink wine on holidays like it was no big deal. I am one of only a handful of family members without an addiction problem. I plan on teaching my kids moderation, too.

[WishboneDawn]

After my amnio, I was sent home with instructions to have a glass of wine and go to bed.

 

I didn't do it only because it seemed such a waste to open a whole bottle for just one glass. :tongue_smilie:

 

Now there is logic and reason at work. :D

[hmschooling]

FAS isn't just from drinking too much alcohol. It's from drinking alcohol. If you drink even a moderate amount on certain days of pregnancy, you could cause your child to have FAS. ONE day of drinking, even in moderation...if it's on a certain day of development is enough to cause permanent damage.

[keptwoman]

I've never understood the logic behind prohibiting alcohol during pregnancy. I've always believed it was another fear tactic to protect people from themselves rather than believing most people are smart enough to know. I HATE being protecting from myself when the reality is I have a law or advisory because of the few who don't have the sense to know better. Same strange thing about tanning beds in pregnancy. (health of skin aside) Do all pregnant women need to avoid sun exposure of any kind?

I think the sun bed thing is about the danger of overheating, it's there along with hot baths and spa pools.

I do think the whole list of don'ts during pregnancy is getting out of hand, the list of food you are "not allowed" to eat has got much longer since I had J, it is getting beyond ludicrous and I ate most of them during my pregnancies.

The medical community seems to think they need to save us from ourselves, it's tiresome being treated as a baby breeding factory instead of a human being with the ability to think for oneself.

 

Fwiw, NZ and Australia have the same hysteria around alcohol in pregnancy, I think it's getting worse actually. I totally ignored it and enjoyed a glass occasionally in the 3rd tri.

 

Because there is NO proof that drinking a glass or two a week causes ANY harm, at all!

 

On the other hand, I bet many women have car wrecks that cause harm to unborn children, yet we keep getting in cars. To use this logic, no pregnant woman should go anywhere in a car during the whole nine months.

 

I resent being called selfish simply because I listen to research and weigh consequences.

 

I agree!

[WishboneDawn]

FAS isn't just from drinking too much alcohol. It's from drinking alcohol. If you drink even a moderate amount on certain days of pregnancy, you could cause your child to have FAS. ONE day of drinking, even in moderation...if it's on a certain day of development is enough to cause permanent damage.

 

I'm trying to find the research that would back this up. The studies that I can find that would point to what you're saying all seem to involve heavy drinkers. The study I referenced involved women drinking 1 or 2 drinks a week. Studies involving what you're claiming seem to involve a few drinks a day and up.

[twoforjoy]

I also find it unfortunate that many Americans do not understand moderation. I have many alcoholics and drug addicts in my family. But I was taught that alcohol isn't evil and moderation is key from a young age.

 

I do think there are genetic/biological factors at work, and not just people not understanding moderation. I do think there are people who cannot be moderate in their intake of alcohol or nicotine or other addictive substances.

 

My DH and I both smoked in college. I quit with my problem at all. It took him years to finally quit. I'm not aware of any addicts in my family, whereas I can't think of anybody I know in his family who doesn't have an addiction of one sort or another (alcohol, drugs, gambling, pornography). I do think that some people are predisposed to become addicted to things, and, for them, using it in moderation would be so difficult that they do need to avoid it entirely. I don't think it's a willpower issue, or a knowledge issue, because my DH, in general, has a lot more willpower than I do. But he's somebody who you'd say has an "addictive personality"--although I think it's probably more of an "addictive genetic make-up," because his mother has had problems with alcohol addiction and his father has had problems with pornography/sexual addiction, and his aunts, uncles, and cousins have all kinds of addictions--whereas I don't. He can't just have one or two glasses of coffee a week--he either has none, or drinks 4-5 cups a day and gets headaches without it. I'm pretty sure that if he ever started drinking a few times a week, he'd very likely become an alcoholic.

 

So I do think there are people who can't have 1-2 drinks a week, but I also think we shouldn't make recommendations based on that.

[twoforjoy]

FAS isn't just from drinking too much alcohol. It's from drinking alcohol. If you drink even a moderate amount on certain days of pregnancy, you could cause your child to have FAS. ONE day of drinking, even in moderation...if it's on a certain day of development is enough to cause permanent damage.

 

My understanding is that it's heavy drinking during critical periods--so getting drunk even once during a critical time--and regular drinking over long periods--several drinks a day every day for weeks--are what causes problems.

 

I don't think, from what I've read, that there is any day/time during a pregnancy in which 1 or 2 drinks could cause harm. Getting drunk, yes. If you have just one night where you have 4-5 drinks, and it happens to be during a critical period, it could do harm. But AFAIK even on those critical days, light drinking wouldn't pose a problem.

[Spy Car]

Alcohol crosses the placenta, yes?

 

So if the mother takes a nip, the developing embryo-fetus takes a nip too, yes?

 

Bill

[WishboneDawn]

FAS isn't just from drinking too much alcohol. It's from drinking alcohol. If you drink even a moderate amount on certain days of pregnancy, you could cause your child to have FAS. ONE day of drinking, even in moderation...if it's on a certain day of development is enough to cause permanent damage.

 

I'm trying to find the research that would back this up. The studies that I can find that would point to what you're saying all seem to involve heavy drinkers.

 

ETA: The studies I found on the just-one-episode drinking involve binge drinking of 5 or more drinks a day. None of the studies I'm finding contradict the one I posted. They deal with 2 to 5 or more drinks per day. It's entirly reasonable that they're all correct AND that the one I linked to is correct as well since it deals with such a relatively small amount - 1 to 2 drinks per week.

[nd293]

I feel a little dorky right now though. I've been letting myself be led along my common wisdom when I might have done a little researchand dispensed with the guilt months ago.

 

We all do, it though, don't we, even when common wisdom goes against common sense. Enjoy your irish cream :)

 

There continues to be a panic reaction that does not differentiate between drinking and "getting drunk", and while doing the latter at a critical time of development can have tragic consequences, I've never seen any suggestion that the occasional drink during pregnancy is harmful. I think the idea is to discourage those who might move from "occasional drink" into "drunk" very easily from ever starting.

Edited September 24, 2011 by nd293

[WishboneDawn]

Alcohol crosses the placenta, yes?

 

So if the mother takes a nip, the developing embryo-fetus takes a nip too, yes?

 

Bill

 

It's not so direct (the placenta is not a direct feeding tube :)) and from what I'm reading there are some who think it's less the alcohol and more to do with the byproducts produced when the body breaks the alcohol down.

[WishboneDawn]

My understanding is that it's heavy drinking during critical periods--so getting drunk even once during a critical time--and regular drinking over long periods--several drinks a day every day for weeks--are what causes problems.

 

I don't think, from what I've read, that there is any day/time during a pregnancy in which 1 or 2 drinks could cause harm. Getting drunk, yes. If you have just one night where you have 4-5 drinks, and it happens to be during a critical period, it could do harm. But AFAIK even on those critical days, light drinking wouldn't pose a problem.

 

There was a study on mice involving binge drinking of the equal of 5 or more drinks for a human.

[Spy Car]

It's not so direct (the placenta is not a direct feeding tube :)) and from what I'm reading there are some who think it's less the alcohol and more to do with the byproducts produced when the body breaks the alcohol down.

 

I am not an authority on the subject, but what I see from what appear to be credible sources is that alcohol freely crosses the placenta. Do you have a source that disputes this?

 

Bill

[ktgrok]

I am not an authority on the subject, but what I see from what appear to be credible sources is that alcohol freely crosses the placenta. Do you have a source that disputes this?

 

Bill

 

The alcohol is processed by the liver before crossing the placenta.

[jujsky]

Thanks, but no.

 

Wolf and all of his sibs except one have FASD to varying degrees.

 

No way on the planet I'd risk it. Just no way. Not when abstaining really isn't any big whoop.

 

But then, I don't even have 1-2 glasses of *anything* alcoholic when I'm not pregnant :lol:

 

I'd like to know how they convinced women to participate in the study though. "Here, try this...we *think* its safe..." :001_huh:

 

I was thinking the same thing. My son has mild FAE from his birth mom. There are plenty of other studies that show alcohol even in moderation during pregnancy CAN be dangerous depending on which systems are developing at the time. Those hyper, ADHD symptoms a kid is exhibiting might not be ADHD -- they might be mild FAE. They can't really test for FAE and sometimes there are no outward physical abnormalities present as there are with full-blown FASD, so how do they really KNOW the kids in these studies are fine? Kids with mild FAE can have normal or even high IQs, but it doesn't mean they don't have problems. There is no way I would advocate drinking while pregnant in any amount (not that I drink anyway -- alcoholism runs in my family so I steer clear of it). Frankly, I'm a little miffed people are making a joke out of it here and talking about kicking back with some alcohol now that it's okay according to this study :glare: I might well be oversensitive to this topic, but having a child with FAE is not easy, and it's not a laughing matter. This is something my son will have to live with and deal with for the rest of his life.

[twoforjoy]

I am not an authority on the subject, but what I see from what appear to be credible sources is that alcohol freely crosses the placenta. Do you have a source that disputes this?

 

Bill

 

I think the issue would be whether alcohol crossing the placenta causes harm, not whether it crosses or not. It appears both from research and from anecdote (i.e., all the healthy European babies) that whatever amount of alcohol could cross the placenta if a mother has 1-2 drinks per week does not cause any harm.

[WishboneDawn]

I am not an authority on the subject, but what I see from what appear to be credible sources is that alcohol freely crosses the placenta. Do you have a source that disputes this?

 

Bill

 

I'm not disputing that! I realize it sounds like that, I apologize, but I just meant to point out something interesting about other lines of thought and the image many have that what you ingest goes directly to the baby.

 

I eat something, my body breaks it down, sends nutrients to the blood. The blood goes to the placenta where the nutrients pass from my blood to the baby's blood, ans waste goes from it's blood to mine and then the baby's blood goes back to the baby to nourish is. No doubt some of what passes is alcohol, we can measure that in anyone's blood after they've been drinking so it is carried in the blood. It's just that it's not the case that any alcohol period is harmful.

 

As for the other, I just thought it was interesting that some thought it might be the byproducts causing the damage. In the end, it doesn't matter. If you drink heavily you're passing something harmful on to your baby, whether it's the alcohol or the byproducts, that you wouldn't if you hadn't drank so heavily. Sometimes I abandon the arguments and go wandering after interesting facts and ideas with my butterfly net leaving confused people in my wake. :001_smile:

[simka2]

I wonder why America does so many things in extremes. All or nothing. :confused:

 

As to the "no alcohol" during pregnancy, I always took that with a grain of salt. Pregnancy and alcohol have co-existed for a long time. ;)

[WishboneDawn]

I was thinking the same thing. My son has mild FAE from his birth mom. There are plenty of other studies that show alcohol even in moderation during pregnancy CAN be dangerous depending on which systems are developing at the time. Those hyper, ADHD symptoms a kid is exhibiting might not be ADHD -- they might be mild FAE. They can't really test for FAE and sometimes there are no outward physical abnormalities present as there are with full-blown FASD, so how do they really KNOW the kids in these studies are fine? Kids with mild FAE can have normal or even high IQs, but it doesn't mean they don't have problems. There is no way I would advocate drinking while pregnant in any amount (not that I drink anyway -- alcoholism runs in my family so I steer clear of it). Frankly, I'm a little miffed people are making a joke out of it here and talking about kicking back with some alcohol now that it's okay according to this study :glare: I might well be oversensitive to this topic, but having a child with FAE is not easy, and it's not a laughing matter. This is something my son will have to live with and deal with for the rest of his life.

 

It's important to define moderation. In the studies I'm seeing it's defined as 2-4 drinks a day.

 

No one is denying alcohol has the potential to be tremendously harmful, just pointing out that at very low levels, there's no harm.

 

ETA: No one has made light of FAS. Of the guilt and paranoia mothers can face about choosing to have a drink while pregnant yes, but not FAS.

Edited September 24, 2011 by WishboneDawn

[Spy Car]

The alcohol is processed by the liver before crossing the placenta.

 

Every source I've seen says that alcohol freely crosses the placenta. Do you have a sours that says otherwise?

 

Bill

[WishboneDawn]

The alcohol is processed by the liver before crossing the placenta.

 

It does go right into the bloodstream after a drink though and from there on to the liver.

[Spy Car]

I think the issue would be whether alcohol crossing the placenta causes harm, not whether it crosses or not. It appears both from research and from anecdote (i.e., all the healthy European babies) that whatever amount of alcohol could cross the placenta if a mother has 1-2 drinks per week does not cause any harm.

 

By the same logic would we give babies a dram of whisky now-and-again if a study showed no harm (in a limited set of developmental markers)?

 

Bill

[twoforjoy]

By the same logic would we give babies a dram of whisky now-and-again if a study showed no harm (in a limited set of developmental markers)?

 

Bill

 

My grandmothers used to give babies a nip when they were teething. I wouldn't see the harm in doing it, myself.

[Impish]

I was thinking the same thing. My son has mild FAE from his birth mom. There are plenty of other studies that show alcohol even in moderation during pregnancy CAN be dangerous depending on which systems are developing at the time. Those hyper, ADHD symptoms a kid is exhibiting might not be ADHD -- they might be mild FAE. They can't really test for FAE and sometimes there are no outward physical abnormalities present as there are with full-blown FASD, so how do they really KNOW the kids in these studies are fine? Kids with mild FAE can have normal or even high IQs, but it doesn't mean they don't have problems. There is no way I would advocate drinking while pregnant in any amount (not that I drink anyway -- alcoholism runs in my family so I steer clear of it). Frankly, I'm a little miffed people are making a joke out of it here and talking about kicking back with some alcohol now that it's okay according to this study :glare: I might well be oversensitive to this topic, but having a child with FAE is not easy, and it's not a laughing matter. This is something my son will have to live with and deal with for the rest of his life.

:grouphug:

Let me share something with you, that may help.

 

As I've stated, my husband has FASD (FAE no longer exists as a term here in Canada). For him, its most noticible in his short term memory issues, his ability to predict consequences, and impulse control, most pronounced when it comes to money.

 

I realized before we were married that he had FASD. Heck, I realized it before he did! We discussed it after our marriage, and it made total sense to him. The things he built into his life, such as everything being recorded in his daytimer, etc, all his ways of dealing with FASD.

 

He's one of the most amazing men I've ever known. Completely dedicated to his family.

 

His youngest brother has made a career out of lecturing about FASD, working with young adults, etc. They said he'd never live on his own. He does, and does well.

 

These men are successful, well loved and thriving. FASD be da*ned.

[WishboneDawn]

:grouphug:

Let me share something with you, that may help.

 

As I've stated, my husband has FASD (FAE no longer exists as a term here in Canada). For him, its most noticible in his short term memory issues, his ability to predict consequences, and impulse control, most pronounced when it comes to money.

 

I realized before we were married that he had FASD. Heck, I realized it before he did! We discussed it after our marriage, and it made total sense to him. The things he built into his life, such as everything being recorded in his daytimer, etc, all his ways of dealing with FASD.

 

He's one of the most amazing men I've ever known. Completely dedicated to his family.

 

His youngest brother has made a career out of lecturing about FASD, working with young adults, etc. They said he'd never live on his own. He does, and does well.

 

These men are successful, well loved and thriving. FASD be da*ned.

 

:grouphug: I hope I get to meet your family one day.:001_smile:

[Impish]

:grouphug: I hope I get to meet your family one day.:001_smile:

We've talked about vacationing in NS, esp if we move to ON. :001_smile:

[ktgrok]

By the same logic would we give babies a dram of whisky now-and-again if a study showed no harm (in a limited set of developmental markers)?

 

Bill

 

I will admit to rubbing whiskey on the gums when a baby/toddler is teething. And most children's cold remedies used to have alcohol in them. Not a big deal to me.

[ktgrok]

Every source I've seen says that alcohol freely crosses the placenta. Do you have a sours that says otherwise?

 

Bill

 

Nope. They tylenol I took a few times also crossed the placenta. And the sugar in my icecream. But I'm not worried about them anymore than I'm worried about the communion wine I had each sunday, or the half glass of wine I drank at New Years, in my 8th month.

[funschooler5]

I wonder why America does so many things in extremes. All or nothing. :confused:

 

As to the "no alcohol" during pregnancy, I always took that with a grain of salt. Pregnancy and alcohol have co-existed for a long time. ;)

 

It's important to define moderation. In the studies I'm seeing it's defined as 2-4 drinks a day.

 

No one is denying alcohol has the potential to be tremendously harmful, just pointing out that at very low levels, there's no harm.

 

ETA: No one has made light of FAS. Of the guilt and paranoia mothers can face about choosing to have a drink while pregnant yes, but not FAS.

:iagree:

There's a big difference between 1/2 glass a wine once or twice a week, and 1-3 drinks per day.

[twoforjoy]

There's a big difference between 1/2 glass a wine once or twice a week, and 1-3 drinks per day.

 

I'm going to get really nitpicky and say there's a difference, too, between "drinking in moderation" and "moderate drinking." "Drinking in moderation," as used here, is referring to engaging in occasional light drinking. "Moderate drinking" is a term used along with "light drinking" and "heavy drinking" to denote the quantity somebody drinks. AFAIK light drinking generally refers to 1-2 drinks, moderate drinking to 3-5, and heavy drinking to more than that, although it may not always be exactly that way.

 

But 1-2 drinks per week would be occasional light drinking, not "moderate drinking."

[WishboneDawn]

I'm going to get really nitpicky and say there's a difference, too, between "drinking in moderation" and "moderate drinking." "Drinking in moderation," as used here, is referring to engaging in occasional light drinking. "Moderate drinking" is a term used along with "light drinking" and "heavy drinking" to denote the quantity somebody drinks. AFAIK light drinking generally refers to 1-2 drinks, moderate drinking to 3-5, and heavy drinking to more than that, although it may not always be exactly that way.

 

But 1-2 drinks per week would be occasional light drinking, not "moderate drinking."

 

Not nit-picky at all. Language is important in discussions like this.

[littleWMN]

I was thinking the same thing. My son has mild FAE from his birth mom. There are plenty of other studies that show alcohol even in moderation during pregnancy CAN be dangerous depending on which systems are developing at the time. Those hyper, ADHD symptoms a kid is exhibiting might not be ADHD -- they might be mild FAE. They can't really test for FAE and sometimes there are no outward physical abnormalities present as there are with full-blown FASD, so how do they really KNOW the kids in these studies are fine? Kids with mild FAE can have normal or even high IQs, but it doesn't mean they don't have problems. There is no way I would advocate drinking while pregnant in any amount (not that I drink anyway -- alcoholism runs in my family so I steer clear of it). Frankly, I'm a little miffed people are making a joke out of it here and talking about kicking back with some alcohol now that it's okay according to this study :glare: I might well be oversensitive to this topic, but having a child with FAE is not easy, and it's not a laughing matter. This is something my son will have to live with and deal with for the rest of his life.

 

:grouphug: :iagree:

 

I'm really surprised at this thread. FASD of varying degrees is very real and affects a person for a LIFETIME. It's not worth the risk. It doesn't have to be heavy drinking. It could be one drink at a certain time and your child will be affected. You do not have to have facial features to have FASD but it presents itself in many different ways.

 

Have any of you promoting (light to moderate) drinking in pregnancy ever lived with a child with FASD?

 

http://www.nofas.org/educator/

[WishboneDawn]

:grouphug: :iagree:

 

I'm really surprised at this thread. FASD of varying degrees is very real and affects a person for a LIFETIME. It's not worth the risk. It doesn't have to be heavy drinking. It could be one drink at a certain time and your child will be affected. You do not have to have facial features to have FASD but it presents itself in many different ways.

 

Have any of you promoting (light to moderate) drinking in pregnancy ever lived with a child with FASD?

 

http://www.nofas.org/educator/

 

Have you looked at the study in the original post?

 

Of course FASD is not worth the risk but the study is saying there is NO risk to 1 or 2 drinks a week while pregnant.

 

We've also addressed the "one time" argument. It was a study in mice where the one-time was a binge drinking episode equal to 5 or more drinks in a human.

 

We are NOT saying we're willing to take the risk, we're saying that there is no evidence that there's any risk to begin with (strictly in relation to 1 or 2 drinks a week) and in fact there is evidence (see the study) to the contrary.

 

ETA: It should be pointed out to that as Twoforjoy noted, the terms "light" to "moderate" as used in the studies mean much more drinking then most of us here or the study in question are talking about.

Edited September 24, 2011 by WishboneDawn

[littleWMN]

http://fasdexperts.com/DiagnosticCriteria.shtml#four

 

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/fasd/alcohol-use.html

 

http://www.come-over.to/FAS/FetalBrainAlcohol.htm

 

http://fasdcenter.samhsa.gov/index.cfm

[Caitilin]

Not sure if you guys are aware of this, but before Terbutaline and other labor-slowing/stopping drugs were available, moms who went into preterm labor were often given alcohol via iv to relax the uterus and slow/stop labor.

 

My MIL had my dh 7 weeks early, and yes, they did try to stop labor by giving her what she calls "basically Everclear." :001_huh: In her case it did not work, and she ended up laboring drunk (again, :001_huh:), but I had NEVER heard of this before or after hearing her labor story until tonight. Learn something new every day! :001_smile:

[littleWMN]

It's not just a concern in America:

 

http://www.fasaware.co.uk/

 

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2011/0830/1224303178492.html

 

http://www.bemyparent.org.uk/features/fasd-the-invisible-disability,297,AR.html

 

http://www.fasdtrust.co.uk/about.php

 

Most of these websites site that there is NO known safe amount of alcohol use in pregnancy. Everyone has to do what they feel comfortable with, of course. I just think it's only fair to point out the risks. One drink a week may not be safe. It's not a risk I, personally, am willing to take. I've seen the devastation up close. I've sat before legislation in support of posting warning signs wherever alcohol is sold. I'm just on the other side of this fence and I think before you partake in alcohol during pregnancy, it's good to be informed before you make your decision.

[littleWMN]

My understanding is that it's heavy drinking during critical periods--so getting drunk even once during a critical time--and regular drinking over long periods--several drinks a day every day for weeks--are what causes problems.

 

I don't think, from what I've read, that there is any day/time during a pregnancy in which 1 or 2 drinks could cause harm. Getting drunk, yes. If you have just one night where you have 4-5 drinks, and it happens to be during a critical period, it could do harm. But AFAIK even on those critical days, light drinking wouldn't pose a problem.

 

Can you back that up from research? From what I've read, there are two weeks in early pregnancy where drinking causes the facial features. There are 38+ other weeks in pregnancy that harm can be caused in different areas but will not show up in facial features. You may be able to drink heavily and escape with a baby that has an IQ of only 110 instead of 120. You may drink on the wrong days and cause permanent (and often invisible, as far as diagnosis goes) brain damage.

[ktgrok]

It's not just a concern in America:

 

http://www.fasaware.co.uk/

 

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2011/0830/1224303178492.html

 

http://www.bemyparent.org.uk/features/fasd-the-invisible-disability,297,AR.html

 

http://www.fasdtrust.co.uk/about.php

 

Most of these websites site that there is NO known safe amount of alcohol use in pregnancy. Everyone has to do what they feel comfortable with, of course. I just think it's only fair to point out the risks. One drink a week may not be safe. It's not a risk I, personally, am willing to take. I've seen the devastation up close. I've sat before legislation in support of posting warning signs wherever alcohol is sold. I'm just on the other side of this fence and I think before you partake in alcohol during pregnancy, it's good to be informed before you make your decision.

 

But those websites are not based on science. The actual science proves that one or two drinks is safe. The actual science says that.

[WishboneDawn]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18974425

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20924051

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19922516'>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19922516'>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19922516'>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19922516

 

First three links involve a long term study of the same children.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19922516

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19171621

 

There was one study referenced in one of the links (http://www.come-over.to/FAS/FetalBrainAlcohol.htm) that addressed the occasional drink of alcohol, none in the others. I can't find that study but this is one of the author's summary "The children were in the normal range of growth," Dr. Day said, "but if you compare them to children whose mothers didn't drink at all, they weighed less, were shorter and had smaller head circumferences."

 

It may show that alcohol did have an effect on their size (although they are still within normal) but I really wish I could find the actual study.

 

The other studies point to occasional drinking having no effect (actually, the first three links point to a slightly positive effect in cognitive tests and behaviours but as we've said, perhaps that's a correlation but not causation). The evidence cited still generally refers to moderate and heavy drinkers. The one study I could find that addressed a possible negative effect to occasional drinking had nothing to do with FASD or cognitive impairments. Meanwhile at least two other studies are showing there is no risk with occasional drinking.

 

The sites you listed are making their case on the basis of evidence which is great but then I should be able to make my decision on the basis of all the evidence and all of the evidence I've seen to date shows that occasional drinking is not the issue here and not, in any way, related to FASD.

[ktgrok]

Can you back that up from research? From what I've read, there are two weeks in early pregnancy where drinking causes the facial features. There are 38+ other weeks in pregnancy that harm can be caused in different areas but will not show up in facial features. You may be able to drink heavily and escape with a baby that has an IQ of only 110 instead of 120. You may drink on the wrong days and cause permanent (and often invisible, as far as diagnosis goes) brain damage.

 

Yes but it has to be enough alcohol to cause harm. There is NO evidence that one drink during that time will cause harm, it is a statement that has been floated around forever with no actual evidence. And as I stated earlier my former boss was part of the studies on this, and says the same thing I'm saying. they didn't find any problem except with large amounts of alcohol.

[WishboneDawn]

It's not just a concern in America:

 

http://www.fasaware.co.uk/

 

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2011/0830/1224303178492.html

 

http://www.bemyparent.org.uk/features/fasd-the-invisible-disability,297,AR.html

 

http://www.fasdtrust.co.uk/about.php

 

Most of these websites site that there is NO known safe amount of alcohol use in pregnancy. Everyone has to do what they feel comfortable with, of course. I just think it's only fair to point out the risks. One drink a week may not be safe. It's not a risk I, personally, am willing to take. I've seen the devastation up close. I've sat before legislation in support of posting warning signs wherever alcohol is sold. I'm just on the other side of this fence and I think before you partake in alcohol during pregnancy, it's good to be informed before you make your decision.

 

Check out post #96. Those links are the intermediaries between the science and us. What they say relies on the science involved. The links I posted go directly to the science and, when talking about 1 or 2 drinks a week, tell a different story.

[twoforjoy]

Can you back that up from research? From what I've read, there are two weeks in early pregnancy where drinking causes the facial features. There are 38+ other weeks in pregnancy that harm can be caused in different areas but will not show up in facial features. You may be able to drink heavily and escape with a baby that has an IQ of only 110 instead of 120. You may drink on the wrong days and cause permanent (and often invisible, as far as diagnosis goes) brain damage.

 

I'm not sure what you're asking, because every study that has looked at drinking in pregnancy that I'm aware of has found that 1-2 drinks per week in pregnancy does not cause problems. Nobody is talking about drinking heavily. Nobody is talking about drinking regularly. But, occasional light drinking of 1-2 drinks per week is not correlated with any future problems. The children born to mothers who have 1-2 drinks per week are, according to research, no different from children born to mothers who don't drink at all.

 

I wasn't saying, to clarify, that heavy drinking on some days is fine, because it only causes harm during critical periods. That wasn't the point. The point was that there is NO time in a pregnancy where it's safe for a woman to drink heavily, because even getting drunk a single time could cause problems, because it might occur during a critical period. And, regular moderate drinking is also an issue. But, 1-2 drinks per week isn't.

 

I would assume that most FAS advocacy groups would take the same stance as American doctors: no drinking at all, because some women will take it too far if you tell them they can have 1-2 drinks per week. And, that's understandable. But, it's not in line with what the science has indicated.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Am I the only one who saw the thread title and thought "kill the messenger!"?:D

 

 

Some of us cannot drink alcohol while pregnant because of our own problems with alcohol: addiction, allergies to alcohol etc. It might be safe for some moms and fetuses but not for all.