dancer67 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 My BIL and SIL are going through a very, very nasty divorce. My BIL actually left because of the physical abuse his wife was enduring on him. Currently, they have 50/50 custody.(One week on, one week off). She has made his life, along with everyone elses life miserable. My BIL has decided he has no other choice but to file for full custody. The kids are 11, 9 and 6. He has a stable job that he has been at for about 15 years. Has a place with three bedrooms. From what I am hearing a GAL is going to be assigned. So I will assume the GAL will speak to both me and my husband, correct?(MY BIL is DH's brother). And we were very close to him and his ex. And unfortunately have been the subject of nasty things from his ex. We are very close with my nices and nephew as well. What do they ask? Will they want to speak to my older kids to? And when the hearing comes around, will we have to tesify in court? I am new to all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Some GALs are very thorough. I knew one that spoke to neighbors. I would not think anything is going to be very odd in their questioning, and they may ask open ended questions just to "hear" you. I would try to relax, be honest, be calm, try not to interject emotional opinion. Phrases like "I got the feeling X and Y because of A, B, and C" or "Sometimes it seemed as thought A and B because I noticed M, N and O" are okay as long as they don't dominate what you say. Try to stick with what you know rather than what/how you feel. I don't think they'll talk to your kids unless they witnesses something bad. :grouphug: And relax. The GAL work I hear about at work (lots of divorces) seem to be fanatically fair and comes to a good conclusion. I will note that the GALs I deal with professionally are for medical emergencies for incompetent adults, but believe me, I hear all the gory details of every custody fight at work. They are obviously more upsetting to the moms I work with than the divorces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancer67 Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 I wonder if the court systems are still bissed towards women. My BIL deserves full custody of his kids. They have been in an unhelathy home environment for a while now since my BIL left. I hope the GAL can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtneyMI Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 OP, I know that the courts used to be more biased towards mothers but that is not so much the case anymore. I believe it used to be called the tender years doctrine that gave mothers more leeway in the court system but that is being phased out. At least that is my understanding. If your BIL can prove that his wife was physically abusive, then there should be no question of her losing custody. And if I remember correctly (its been a few years since my family law class), if the mother is abusive, she would lose her rights even with the tender years doctrine. HTH and :grouphug: for your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I don't have any advice, but I wanted to say I'm sorry the whole thing went this way. I know you considered your SIL a friend. It stinks that it all turned so very ugly, for your family and especially for their children :( :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLG Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 GAL are really for the kids - an advocate to look out for their best interests. Depending upon where you live, they can be superb or just doing a job. Sad realities. They are thorough so could ask all sorts of people but not usually children under age. If you Google CASA they might have more detailed info for you. Prayers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 OP, I know that the courts used to be more biased towards mothers but that is not so much the case anymore. The ugliest one I knew of went to Dad, which all bystanders thought was best. I also know one where the woman's attorney told her to give up, she was not going to get custody and should thank her stars she was getting every other weekend and a month in the summer (she gave up). Perhaps I just am just drawn to decent guys, but I know several who ended up raising kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Unfortunately it all depends on who is assigned to you. The one assigned to my children was about 90 years old (maybe 85), and worked about 2 hours from my house. He was a complete waste of time/money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) My BIL and SIL are going through a very, very nasty divorce. My BIL actually left because of the physical abuse his wife was enduring on him. Currently, they have 50/50 custody.(One week on, one week off). She has made his life, along with everyone elses life miserable. My BIL has decided he has no other choice but to file for full custody. The kids are 11, 9 and 6. He has a stable job that he has been at for about 15 years. Has a place with three bedrooms. From what I am hearing a GAL is going to be assigned. So I will assume the GAL will speak to both me and my husband, correct?(MY BIL is DH's brother). And we were very close to him and his ex. And unfortunately have been the subject of nasty things from his ex. We are very close with my nices and nephew as well. What do they ask? Will they want to speak to my older kids to? And when the hearing comes around, will we have to tesify in court? I am new to all this. I don't know what state you are in, but some things to consider . . . My brother is currently going through this. The GAL assigned to his case made up his mind before talking to anyone (PC feminist agenda you know. men are abusers by definition and women are victims) - so before ever meeting the GAL it had been decided his wife was a saint and brother was an abuser. Never mind his wife has a proven history of lying/manipulation, has been hauled off by her employer to the hospital for mental health evaluations, has been ordered (by the court) to pay the mortgage on their house, but hasn't been. Never mind she showed up at the GAL's church, and privately met with the GAL's wife - who is the minister. ethically, he should have recused himself after that last bit - but didn't. GAL did not call me until after the last incident when db's attorney expected him to recuse himself -he's refused. (he hasn't interviewed ANYONE for my brother) He left me a message, I returned the call and left a message, and have never heard from him again. He has NEVER called my adult nephew. Come to find out, he has a very long history with the state of impropriety and bias. I found the report he keeps in touch with the children until they are adults - long after divorce and custody are settled - to be downright creepy. do have your brother check out the GAL's record and make sure he gets one he's happy with. I did file a statement with the court, but am not expecting to testify at anything. Edited September 18, 2011 by gardenmom5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisperry Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 My husband is a lawyer and sometimes works as a GAL. He is not the father or mother's attorney but the children's. He works to understand the situation as completely as possible and then advocates what he feels is in the best interest of the child(ren). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I know a man who was granted full custody of his children, and there was a pattern of neglect when they lived with their mother. The children did ask to live with him as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancer67 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) Are the kids asked by the judge who they would prefer to live with? I am very concerned for my niece who is 11. Her mother has her lie to her dad, and also allows her to read text messages between her parents, which are not very nice. Mainly my SIL who keeps telling my BIL, and her own kids, that their father is trying to take them away from her. She is so angry that she is using her kids as pawns. My BIL was tired of the physical abuse so he moved out. He didn't even want to file for divorce. He told her that if she got herself into counseling, and got herself under control, maybe they could start "dating" again, and take things slowly. She never did any of the sorts, and she turned so angry and bitter it has been nothing short of horrific since. This was a very hard decision for my BIL to make. But feels he has no choice. I hope the GAL does some good. But I will mention to him to make sure whoever he gets is good. Thanks Edited September 19, 2011 by dancer67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 OP, I know that the courts used to be more biased towards mothers but that is not so much the case anymore. I believe it used to be called the tender years doctrine that gave mothers more leeway in the court system but that is being phased out. At least that is my understanding. If your BIL can prove that his wife was physically abusive, then there should be no question of her losing custody. And if I remember correctly (its been a few years since my family law class), if the mother is abusive, she would lose her rights even with the tender years doctrine. HTH and :grouphug: for your family. :iagree: The tender years doctrine is all but extinct now I think. It has been replaced in most states with a "preference for the primary caregiver." This means that is mom has been raising the kids (doing the doctor's appointments, the cooking, the cleaning, homeschooling or taking care of homework) then mom will most likely keep the kids as the primary parent. HOWEVER, many states have a presumption that an abuser cannot get custody of the children. Therefore, if the abuse is documented (911 calls, restraining orders, etc) or can be proven, the abusive parent will not get custody even if she was the primary parent. Courts these days are looking for stability and safety for the children. The key words are "best interest." The courts have wide latitude in determining what is in the best interests of the children. A GAL will speak for the children because often times it is too traumatic for children to be involved in making these decisions. - Cammie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Are the kids asked by the judge who they would prefer to live with? I am very concerned for my niece who is 11. Her mother has her lie to her dad, and also allows her to read text messages between her parents, which are not very nice. Mainly my SIL who keeps telling my BIL, and her own kids, that their father is trying to take them away from her. She is so angry that she is using her kids as pawns. My BIL was tired of the physical abuse so he moved out. He didn't even want to file for divorce. He told her that if she got herself into counseling, and got herself under control, maybe they could start "dating" again, and take things slowly. She never did any of the sorts, and she turned so angry and bitter it has been nothing short of horrific since. This was a very hard decision for my BIL to make. But feels he has no choice. I hope the GAL does some good. But I will mention to him to make sure whoever he gets is good. Thanks My experience with a GAL was that he was professional, did not convey a bias, thorough and he was respected by both sides of the battle. He asked very personal, thorough questions. He went through all of my side, all of the other side, talked to each of the kids. It was hard. It was ok. The whole thing was hard. There are exceptions, but I've observed that the courts are well aware of the drama that goes on, and see through the manipulation. It's new to US, living it, but quite common place/everyday for family law. Yes, Dads can and do get custody when warranted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 :iagree: The tender years doctrine is all but extinct now I think. It has been replaced in most states with a "preference for the primary caregiver." This means that is mom has been raising the kids (doing the doctor's appointments, the cooking, the cleaning, homeschooling or taking care of homework) then mom will most likely keep the kids as the primary parent. HOWEVER, many states have a presumption that an abuser cannot get custody of the children. Therefore, if the abuse is documented (911 calls, restraining orders, etc) or can be proven, the abusive parent will not get custody even if she was the primary parent. Courts these days are looking for stability and safety for the children. The key words are "best interest." The courts have wide latitude in determining what is in the best interests of the children. A GAL will speak for the children because often times it is too traumatic for children to be involved in making these decisions. - Cammie The names have changed, but the assumptions are the same. The *assumption* is that mom is the primary caregiver. My brother is the one who took his daughter to doc appointments. packed her lunch, got her to bed, lessons, etc. etc. etc. sil is very manipulative (I've seen it firsthand) and my niece is afraid to saying anything against her mom - so she will back up anything the mom tells her to say. Whenever my brother would try and report his wife's abusive behavior, it was always turned around on him. I've been hearing everything and frankly he's incredibly naive. the GAL never talked to db for the report (he did talk to him about getting $$$$), only talked to sil, and put in his report that she did everything. the GAL was very UNprofessional. Only recently with a court ordered counselor for developing a parenting plan has anyone spoken for/been allowed to speak for my brother - and that was the counselor after sil blew up in the woman's office on the first visit when the counselor would repeatedly redirect her towards planning for her CHILD's parenting instead of griping about whatever. sil has never gone back, and will not return phone calls from the counselor. counselor has commented how sil does NOT act like an abused woman (though she claims "she" is the victim). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 The names have changed, but the assumptions are the same. The *assumption* is that mom is the primary caregiver. My brother is the one who took his daughter to doc appointments. packed her lunch, got her to bed, lessons, etc. etc. etc. sil is very manipulative (I've seen it firsthand) and my niece is afraid to saying anything against her mom - so she will back up anything the mom tells her to say. Whenever my brother would try and report his wife's abusive behavior, it was always turned around on him. I've been hearing everything and frankly he's incredibly naive. the GAL never talked to db for the report (he did talk to him about getting $$$$), only talked to sil, and put in his report that she did everything. the GAL was very UNprofessional. Only recently with a court ordered counselor for developing a parenting plan has anyone spoken for/been allowed to speak for my brother - and that was the counselor after sil blew up in the woman's office on the first visit when the counselor would repeatedly redirect her towards planning for her CHILD's parenting instead of griping about whatever. sil has never gone back, and will not return phone calls from the counselor. counselor has commented how sil does NOT act like an abused woman (though she claims "she" is the victim). Well, there is a difference between a legal presumption and a cultural assumption. The law no longer presumes that the mother is the primary parent. It has to be proven in court. Now, the fact of the matter is that culturally in many families it still is the mother. But the issue is no longer the primary importance of the mother in the child's life but the primary importance of stability in the child's life (provided either by mother or by father.) It sounds like they had a terrible GAL and that should be reported to the proper authorities. Often times it is best for the parties to get a parenting study done by a professional and have that submitted to the court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Knoll Mom Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 It really depends on the state. I've had interactions with GAL in two states and one state gave much greater authority to the GAL than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I hope the GAL does some good. But I will mention to him to make sure whoever he gets is good. Your bil will not pick the GAL, the court will. The GAL represents the kids only, not your bil, not your sil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancer67 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Well whoever does the picking, I hope they do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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