TN law that homeschooled persons can't hold govt. jobs?

[JennyB]

My husband just heard this on the radio so I looked it up online and wondered if anyone has heard of this and what ya'lls comments might be.

 

Rockwood police officer John Evans may lose his job if a bill validating his homeschooling fails to pass the Legislature soon and, he says, at least six drug arrests he has made would be dismissed. Three West Tennessee day-care workers have already lost their jobs because of a new interpretation that the state Department of Education has given to what qualifies as the high school diploma required for holding some government-related jobs, according to Rep. Mike Bell, R-Riceville, sponsor of a bill that would revise that interpretation.

 

But critics of the measure say it would amount to giving a legislative seal of approval to a homeschool education when the state has no control over what is involved in that education.

 

These are just a few quotes from the article. What do you think?

 

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/may/07/diploma-measure-still-faces-hurdles/

[Kelli in TN]

Well. Yeah.

 

It has been dropped for now and the homeschool graduates affected by this are being reviewed on a case by case basis.

 

But it is pretty bad. I hope we can get some legislation passed to put an end to this once and for all.

 

Or maybe we should all move to Oklahoma where the right to homeschool is apparently in the state constitution.

[Mamagistra]

What do you think?

 

I think something's rotten in the state of Tennessee. :glare:

 

(LMNOPam, prepare thy icy thermometer!) ;)

[Kelli in TN]

This only applies to people who do not graduate from college. College graduates who were homeschool graduates are safe from this interpretation of the law.

[Sandy in Indy]

Rotten thing all around...but it seems to me that if the police officer made it through the academy, then he surely demonstrated the skills needed for his job!

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I think something's rotten in the state of Tennessee. :glare:

 

(LMNOPam, prepare thy icy thermometer!) ;)

 

On ice as we speak. :001_smile:

[Kelli in TN]

Rotten thing all around...but it seems to me that if the police officer made it through the academy, then he surely demonstrated the skills needed for his job!

 

Oh that poor police officer who was denied a "real" highschool diploma from our state's stellar public education system not only made it through the academy but did so with a 4.0.

 

But of course we don't want to turn people like him loose with guns and handcuffs and cars with lights and sirens. He can't be all that smart if he does not have one of those handy-dandy Tennessee dept of education diplomas.

[kalanamak]

This only applies to people who do not graduate from college. College graduates who were homeschool graduates are safe from this interpretation of the law.

 

 

How about a GED? Not a painful test...

[Tracey in TX]

That's the most absurd thing I've heard this year. They're ranked 30th in the nation, which means they should be begging someone else to take over their state education system to improve it.

How can this be legal to fire government workers based on a law which is retroactive for their employment qualifications?:001_unsure:

[Kelli in TN]

How about a GED? Not a painful test...

 

You know, I am not entirely sure.....

 

I will say this much, this new interpretation of law has next to nothing to do with the quality of home schoolers in the state of Tennessee. It has everything to do with the public school system. Here is the deal; there are some folks from Memphis that are on the education committee. Their kids in the inner city schools cannot pass the state's exit exams. Now these exit exams are created by the state of Tennessee for the students within Tennessee only. These are not nationally normed tests. In other words, the state can and most likely does direct the schools to teach to the test. And yet the students cannot pass.

 

So, if you were on the education committee and your constiuants were complaining because their kids could not pass your test what would you do? Try to improve the schools? Rethink whether or not the tests were the best measurement for graduation? Nah, that stuff's too hard. It is easier to go after the private schoolers and the homeschoolers.

 

So, we could take the GED, but why should we have to? They can clean up their own backyard and then they can come talk to us about how deficient we are.

[Kelli in TN]

That's the most absurd thing I've heard this year. They're ranked 30th in the nation, which means they should be begging someone else to take over their state education system to improve it.

How can this be legal to fire government workers based on a law which is retroactive for their employment qualifications?:001_unsure:

 

Yes. Tis true. We are #30. We used to be #41, so, woohoo, we are movin' on up.:rolleyes:

 

The law is not really retroactive. There is no new law. It is a new interpretation of current (murky) law. The real issue is that we have no law. We have a memo. The Jeter Memo. That's it. No law.

 

I think we need a real law or this nonsense will keep slapping us in the face everytime we turn around.

[gardenschooler]

I think something's rotten in the state of Tennessee. :glare:

 

(LMNOPam, prepare thy icy thermometer!) ;)

 

:lol::iagree:

[gardenschooler]

Yes. Tis true. We are #30. We used to be #41, so, woohoo, we are movin' on up.:rolleyes:

 

The law is not really retroactive. There is no new law. It is a new interpretation of current (murky) law. The real issue is that we have no law. We have a memo. The Jeter Memo. That's it. No law.

 

I think we need a real law or this nonsense will keep slapping us in the face everytime we turn around.

 

And why do you think it is we can't get a law? I know what I think, but I'll just :chillpill: instead. It's too late to get my blood pressure up.

[gardenschooler]

How about a GED? Not a painful test...

 

Considering the murky law/memo, being rotten as it is, if I had a homeschool graduate who was not going on to college, I'd have them take the GED if we had to. It's just paperwork and red tape. Not that we should have to, to prove anything, but....this isn't a reasonable situation, IMHO.

[teamturner]

Quote from the article:

But critics of the measure say it would amount to giving a legislative seal of approval to a homeschool education when the state has no control over what is involved in that education.

 

That's true of private schools as well. The legislature has no control over what is taught in private schools. This law just doesn't make sense. I recently read on HSLDA's website about a young man who was going to lose his job due to not having a valid high school degree. The HSLDA stepped in and helped this young man set some people straight in his company. I can't remember what state it was in.

[Karenciavo]

Quote from the article:

But critics of the measure say it would amount to giving a legislative seal of approval to a homeschool education when the state has no control over what is involved in that education.

 

That's true of private schools as well. The legislature has no control over what is taught in private schools. This law just doesn't make sense. I recently read on HSLDA's website about a young man who was going to lose his job due to not having a valid high school degree. The HSLDA stepped in and helped this young man set some people straight in his company. I can't remember what state it was in.

 

Yes, that's ridiculous reasoning.

[MyThreeSons]

That's true of private schools as well. The legislature has no control over what is taught in private schools.

 

What about people who graduated from high school in another state? They have no control over that, either .....

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

Ok, it is legal to homeschool in TN, right? A homeschooled person can get into a state college, right?

Then the state has already recognized the validity of a homeschooled education.

 

Are homeschoolers beating out public school students at getting all the good jobs?

[debbiec]

From what I read in the local paper and chat boards (we're in Nashville, the capital), homeschool students can take the GED, to circumvent the stipulation, though most here in the state do not. I ,frankly, have never known any homeschooled student that took the GED. I think the uproar is on principle.

[kalanamak]

From what I read in the local paper and chat boards (we're in Nashville, the capital), homeschool students can take the GED, to circumvent the stipulation, though most here in the state do not. I ,frankly, have never known any homeschooled student that took the GED. I think the uproar is on principle.

 

I drove a young chum to take the GED. Mind you, this was Kansas, but it was free and the people at the continuing education place were terribly nice. They really encouraged him, and we just smiled and were polite, because he'd left school to hike the Appy trail and went on to get a PhD.

 

I work for the state government, and there is a category of government employee that is nearly too stupid to live. Everyone else knows who they are and covers them as best as possible. It is very hard to fire someone, at least here, and so they have several hurdles to get in, in the hopes of winnowing out at least the people to stupid to be persistent.

 

It is very hard for an entity so large to be responsive to the individual. If they are, substandard employees (aka slimeballs) who work the system take every advantage. While I didn't like all the hurdles I went through, I see the point, now that I'd been in the system for 5 years. Last year they waived the documentation of degree (pending arrival) in their eagerness to hire a minority PhD. He was a fraud, and the investigation on what he might have done, s*xually, to our severely mentally ill population is ongoing and hushhush. I'm proud to say I "sussed" him out right off, and once stood up in a meeting, told him his was bizarre and left. One and only time I ever did such a thing.

 

Oh well, I ramble. Off to work!

[Kelli in TN]

And why do you think it is we can't get a law? I know what I think, but I'll just :chillpill: instead. It's too late to get my blood pressure up.

 

Okay, I'll take the bait. Why can't we have a law? It wouldn't have anything to do with the clowns your fair city keeps sending to Nashville, would it?:biggrinjester:

[Penny from Tenny]

Okay, I'll take the bait. Why can't we have a law? It wouldn't have anything to do with the clowns your fair city keeps sending to Nashville, would it?:biggrinjester:

 

Speaking from someone else who lives in the "fair city" where many in our state wish we would secede from the state or fall into the Mississippi River....me thinks you are correct!

[Kelli in TN]

many in our state wish we would secede from the state or fall into the Mississippi River!

 

 

I will bring lifeboats and pull you and Gardenschooler out of the river, okay?

[Kelli in TN]

Quote from the article:

But critics of the measure say it would amount to giving a legislative seal of approval to a homeschool education when the state has no control over what is involved in that education.

 

That's true of private schools as well. The legislature has no control over what is taught in private schools. This law just doesn't make sense. I recently read on HSLDA's website about a young man who was going to lose his job due to not having a valid high school degree. The HSLDA stepped in and helped this young man set some people straight in his company. I can't remember what state it was in.

 

Well, they have addressed that too. One of the folks who found herself in the unemployment line was from my town. She had graduated from a private school, did not go to college but instead went to work at the YMCA daycare center. The state oversees daycare centers in Tennessee, so she was fired.

[Tammyla]

:iagree:

 

I think something's rotten in the state of Tennessee. :glare:

 

(LMNOPam, prepare thy icy thermometer!) ;)

[Nestof3]

Oh yeah, the police departments are always looking for the most intelligent! This explains why the Justice Dept. forced the math portion on the exam to be dumbed down:

 

http://hamptonroads.com/node/73991

http://hamptonroads.com/node/61811

 

I saw samples of the math problems, and most of them were 5th grade level.

[Greta Lea]

I personally think that Memphis alone drags our state down to number 30 on the list! Their system is HORRIBLE.

 

They have a hand full of great teachers, then they've got a load who need to be knocked out of there. Of course, they are overun with inner city gang memeber parents who care NOTHING about their children at all (it really is amazing how many of my sister's 2nd grade student's parents were either in jail or the hospital at some point for gang related violence).

 

I know for a FACT that Memphis city schools DO encourage the teachers to "teach the test". Elementary students are denied ANY recess time for 2 reasons...the kids (even 2nd graders) end up doing nothing but fighting when they go outside *and* the teachers are told to use that time to teach "test material". Crazy, crazy, crazy.

 

My sister now teaches in a suburb of Nashville (Franklin). She did the happy dance all the way to Nashville. She was SO incredibly sick of all the board of education *mess* that goes on there.

 

Memphis, in my opinion, is on a whole is just a MESS right now. That's sad, 'cuz I remember when it was a nice place to visit. These politicians from Memphis are just determined to drag the entire state down the tube with them. Sad.

[Greta Lea]

LOL!!!!

[Penny from Tenny]

"I will bring lifeboats and pull you and Gardenschooler out of the river, okay?"

 

Ha! Kelli, unfortunately there would be too many other good folks to rescue....you will need to come up with a better idea. Let me know when you think of one...there are some politicians who would pay big money for a solution I have a feeling!

[gardenschooler]

Speaking from someone else who lives in the "fair city" where many in our state wish we would secede from the state or fall into the Mississippi River....me thinks you are correct!

 

You live here? How come I don't know you? Actually, I think I've seen your name on some of our local yahoo groups. :)

[Penny from Tenny]

Gardenschooler, why don't you pm me and we'll see if we can figure out if we know each other. We've lived here quite awhile.

Penny

Mom to 5

ds's 22; ds 10; ds 7; dd 3 (almost)

[gardenschooler]

I personally think that Memphis alone drags our state down to number 30 on the list! Their system is HORRIBLE.

 

They have a hand full of great teachers, then they've got a load who need to be knocked out of there.

 

This is why I waited until my oldest was in 10th grade before even letting her try public school. I can't imagine having a young child in that system. No way. Oh, the stories I've heard about some of the teachers, especially in the elementary and middle school grades! I just couldn't risk it. I would have a hard time being polite. Nope, better not to even go there. :ohmy:

 

Dd16 is in all honors/AP classes, and her average class size is pretty small (the standard classes are full to bursting). Next year, they'll be even smaller. I have to say I have been impressed with a few of her teachers, and we were lucky enough to get one that is considered by everyone to be the cream of the crop. She's old enough (and had been homeschooled long enough) to know how to self-teach, if need be, in some subjects (she hasn't needed to do this, so that's good). We've been fairly pleased, though, and I know we were lucky.

 

While I don't want to fight her battles or be a helicopter parent, if I did hear anything that got my bristles up, it would be brought to everyone's attention until it was resolved. I questioned them all very thoroughly on their teaching methods and practices at the beginning of the year, and they all passed my test. But I also tried to let them know, in the friendliest way possible, that I'm watching. :coolgleamA: I expect teachers to actually teach. They were all a little thrown by my specific questions, as I don't think anyone had actually asked those before. That's okay. This is my daughter we're talking about.

 

I do worry about safety, and the general atmosphere. It's not right, but there is a degree of separation in place in the schools, among honors vs. standard (one school even keeps their standard students out back, in trailers, so visiting parents don't see them....OY!) But the high school my dd attends does have another wing for the biggest discipline problem students (or the ones who are barely scraping by, academically), so that helps. It's not one of the 'red flag' schools, either, so really problematic kids don't even attend there.

 

There's always talk of a big crackdown on gang activity. Lots and lots of talk. Implementing uniforms has helped some, and so do the armed police officers stationed at the schools, as well as the metal detectors and cameras that are linked to the police dept. The principal at dd's school talks a lot about how he's all on top of the gang activity, and since there haven't been any murders there, I guess he's ahead of some of the other principals. :scared:

 

 

I know for a FACT that Memphis city schools DO encourage the teachers to "teach the test". Elementary students are denied ANY recess time for 2 reasons...the kids (even 2nd graders) end up doing nothing but fighting when they go outside *and* the teachers are told to use that time to teach "test material". Crazy, crazy, crazy.

 

In the 'better' schools, where there are already high test scores and tons of parental involvement, they do get recess, and plenty of it. The parents really fight for it, though. I live very close to one of the best schools, and they're out there playing pretty often (but more so after the TCAPs are over!)

 

I was wondering how that was handled in the other schools, where it's next to impossible to keep order even in the classroom, much less the playground. Most of those I've seen do have nice playgrounds, though - surely they get to use them sometime? But maybe not. If I were a teacher, I wouldn't risk recess if I had to worry about violence to that degree. Sad.

 

Memphis, in my opinion, is on a whole is just a MESS right now. That's sad, 'cuz I remember when it was a nice place to visit. These politicians from Memphis are just determined to drag the entire state down the tube with them. Sad.

 

Dh has got it in his head that I need to run for the city school board! :lol: Not gonna happen. Something needs to happen, I don't know what.

[gardenschooler]

Okay, I'll take the bait. Why can't we have a law? It wouldn't have anything to do with the clowns your fair city keeps sending to Nashville, would it?:biggrinjester:

 

Actually, no, that wasn't the angle I was going for. There is no way to get rid of the clowns - now, how could we have a circus without any clowns?

 

But if we actually had a law, a clear one, that would help keep the clowns on their side of the big top. Since we don't, we're fair game.

 

I just don't have any faith that we ever will have any legal protection from the clowns. If people lump ALL proposed laws into one category, "Evil government interference", how can we?

 

Even proposals like allowing our homeschooled kids to play on public school sports teams were met with such opposition. Why? Because the majority don't want a law, or any mixing, or any government oversight whatsoever. None.

 

Even if it means sticking with a murky 'memo' that doesn't really protect us. The goal seems to be that it's better to fly under the radar than get noticed. No protection, no clear law, leaves us wide open to the clowns and their squirt guns, IMNSHO.

 

For me personally, I wouldn't mind having something clear that says, "If you homeschool, you can be recognized as actually having earned a diploma if you do X, Y, and Z. You can join the police force, or work in any government entity. You can even take ABC classes at the school, if you wish."

 

If that had been available - say, a class or two - I wouldn't have had to send my dd there full-time. I don't want to sign my kids up in a cyber-school, but I would like it if they could play soccer or take a French class for free. But how it is now, we have access to nothing. Because everyone's afraid of the big, bad wolf.

 

I'm probably going to regret saying this next part, but....I was at a homeschool function recently, and we were a shown a film. The gist of the film was to warn people off from proposed cyber-schools in TN. I asked around, thinking that everyone already knew all this - if you sign up with a state-funded cyber school, you're of course, a public school student. They didn't (don't these women read the WTM boards? Stay informed, people!!).

 

Okay, I can kind of see trying to make it clear to people who may not know they would be essentially becoming public school students, although I can't for the life of me understand how you could not know that, if you went through and registered. It was coming from the stance that some poor, unsuspecting homeschoolers had been duped into signing up for cyber-schools, not ever realizing they were registering under the public school. I have a hard time believing anyone is that slow.

 

But it didn't stop there. The main point of the film was not only to clarify to people exactly what the proposed cyber-schools were (public schools at home), but most especially, to convince people to do whatever they could: vote, spread the word, fight, go to Nashville ..... to make sure that we never, ever got cyber-schools at all here in TN.

 

Why? Because if we let the government in even a little, then next thing we know, they'll be in all the way, and before you know it, we'll all be forbidden to even speak of religion to our own kids. AR and AK were cited as examples. Homeschooling as a way of life will be a thing of the past! Fight, people, fight for your freedoms! Ensure no cyber schools ever come to TN!!

 

I. was. shocked. Not that I haven't seen and heard many shocking things from certain homeschoolers and groups over the years, but this was over the top. I was also rather flabbergasted that only a few could see that this was blatant propaganda, and actually a huge insult to our intelligence. I thought these were intelligent people, but now, I wonder if their fears aren't their overriding their common sense. If they're listening to this kind of stuff all the time, they really only know what they're being told. Most of them had never even heard the whole cyber-school argument, ever. And I thought I lived under a rock!

 

There is no choice available in homeschooling in TN, and there certainly is no protection. And this is why.

 

I'm armed and ready for the neg rep. Fling it, baby. I'm not afraid!

 

ETA: I don't mean to be offensive or harsh in my tone, but it's the only way to get across how strongly I feel about this.

[Penny from Tenny]

The principal at dd's school talks a lot about how he's all on top of the gang activity, and since there haven't been any murders there, I guess he's ahead of some of the other principals. :scared:

Dh has got it in his head that I need to run for the city school board! :lol: Not gonna happen. Something needs to happen, I don't know what.

 

 

Oh, GOOD GRIEF! I detest the leadership we have in Memphis! Not having any murders in your school YET is really something to be proud of!

 

And I think you should run! We need a local pro-homeschooling board member and since you have a child in the PS they couldn't say anything (Well, I'm sure they'd try...)

[gardenschooler]

 

And I think you should run! We need a local pro-homeschooling board member and since you have a child in the PS they couldn't say anything (Well, I'm sure they'd try...)

 

Yay! I've already got one vote! :lol:

[Kelli in TN]

Actually, no, that wasn't the angle I was going for. There is no way to get rid of the clowns - now, how could we have a circus without any clowns?

 

But if we actually had a law, a clear one, that would help keep the clowns on their side of the big top. Since we don't, we're fair game.

 

I just don't have any faith that we ever will have any legal protection from the clowns. If people lump ALL proposed laws into one category, "Evil government interference", how can we?

 

Even proposals like allowing our homeschooled kids to play on public school sports teams were met with such opposition. Why? Because the majority don't want a law, or any mixing, or any government oversight whatsoever. None.

 

Even if it means sticking with a murky 'memo' that doesn't really protect us. The goal seems to be that it's better to fly under the radar than get noticed. No protection, no clear law, leaves us wide open to the clowns and their squirt guns, IMNSHO.

 

For me personally, I wouldn't mind having something clear that says, "If you homeschool, you can be recognized as actually having earned a diploma if you do X, Y, and Z. You can join the police force, or work in any government entity. You can even take ABC classes at the school, if you wish."

 

If that had been available - say, a class or two - I wouldn't have had to send my dd there full-time. I don't want to sign my kids up in a cyber-school, but I would like it if they could play soccer or take a French class for free. But how it is now, we have access to nothing. Because everyone's afraid of the big, bad wolf.

 

I'm probably going to regret saying this next part, but....I was at a homeschool function recently, and we were a shown a film. The gist of the film was to warn people off from proposed cyber-schools in TN. I asked around, thinking that everyone already knew all this - if you sign up with a state-funded cyber school, you're of course, a public school student. They didn't (don't these women read the WTM boards? Stay informed, people!!).

 

Okay, I can kind of see trying to make it clear to people who may not know they would be essentially becoming public school students, although I can't for the life of me understand how you could not know that, if you went through and registered. It was coming from the stance that some poor, unsuspecting homeschoolers had been duped into signing up for cyber-schools, not ever realizing they were registering under the public school. I have a hard time believing anyone is that slow.

 

But it didn't stop there. The main point of the film was not only to clarify to people exactly what the proposed cyber-schools were (public schools at home), but most especially, to convince people to do whatever they could: vote, spread the word, fight, go to Nashville ..... to make sure that we never, ever got cyber-schools at all here in TN.

 

Why? Because if we let the government in even a little, then next thing we know, they'll be in all the way, and before you know it, we'll all be forbidden to even speak of religion to our own kids. AR and AK were cited as examples. Homeschooling as a way of life will be a thing of the past! Fight, people, fight for your freedoms! Ensure no cyber schools ever come to TN!!

 

I. was. shocked. Not that I haven't seen and heard many shocking things from certain homeschoolers and groups over the years, but this was over the top. I was also rather flabbergasted that only a few could see that this was blatant propaganda, and actually a huge insult to our intelligence. I thought these were intelligent people, but now, I wonder if their fears aren't their overriding their common sense. If they're listening to this kind of stuff all the time, they really only know what they're being told. Most of them had never even heard the whole cyber-school argument, ever. And I thought I lived under a rock!

 

There is no choice available in homeschooling in TN, and there certainly is no protection. And this is why.

 

I'm armed and ready for the neg rep. Fling it, baby. I'm not afraid!

 

Shocked I am, I'm tellin' ya. I think you might be saying that you disagree with some of the decisions made by our homeschool leadership.

 

Yeah, the cyber school thing. Let's go there, shall we?

 

When it was first proposed to us that allowing the cyber school option would destroy our homeschooling freedoms, those freedoms fought for by our brave homeschooling pioneers, I could not wait to join the resistance movement.:patriot:

 

But as I look around at (gasp!) other states I see that they have cyber schools and they have good homeschool law and never the twain shall meet. Unless the parents want the twain to meet. And I see states where students can and do make use of public school programs and yet, their right to be homeschooled never seems to be under attack.

 

And yet here, in the volunteer state, we have no real law, no access to any public school classes, no cyber schools, and only two homeschool choices-public school oversight or church related school oversight.

 

Um, hello? The sky is not falling Chicken Little. Other states have choices and they are doing okay? What's wrong with Tennessee?

 

Gosh, if the wrong people read this I will never be allowed to attend Rally Day again, will I?

 

 

I just think Tennessee should have what other states have in the way of homeschool rights and equal access to public schools. I believe the cyberschool option should be available to those who would like that option. I believe that the CRS option should be preserved, but that there ought to be oversight options that are non-sectarian beyond the signing up with the local school board. I also believe Tennessee citizens are ready for an Ikea and a Trader Joe's.

 

 

 

Incidentally, I tried to fling you some rep but it says I have done it too recently. Next time we get together we can have a gripe fest about homeschool law!!! Our husbands will LOVE that!!

[Penny from Tenny]

But if we actually had a law, a clear one, that would help keep the clowns on their side of the big top. Since we don't, we're fair game.

 

I just don't have any faith that we ever will have any legal protection from the clowns. If people lump ALL proposed laws into one category, "Evil government interference", how can we?

 

Why? Because if we let the government in even a little, then next thing we know, they'll be in all the way, and before you know it, we'll all be forbidden to even speak of religion to our own kids. AR and AK were cited as examples. Homeschooling as a way of life will be a thing of the past! Fight, people, fight for your freedoms! Ensure no cyber schools ever come to TN!!

 

There is no choice available in homeschooling in TN, and there certainly is no protection. And this is why.

 

I'm armed and ready for the neg rep. Fling it, baby. I'm not afraid!

 

Well, I for one must live under a LARGER rock because I have no idea about the proposed cyber-school or the local meeting discussing it/showing a film. I have been busy lately sending our first one out of the nest, but I missed this news flash.

 

I do have to tell you that I am of the opinion that I would rather remain the way we are than to have any regulation attached to the homeschool/church-related school issue in TN. For me the reason is that I know of NO government regulation (remember though that I said I was living under a rock!) that was ever revoked once it was put on the books. I might be one of those who could be accused of being afraid of the "big, bad wolf" but I think there is precedent to give me that concern. I only believe that more regulation would be added in the future and we would be constantly fighting to maintain our freedom to homeschool without undue burden by the state. Now, if they want to add homeschooling to the state constitution as a legal alternative then I'm all for that!

Flinging very gently because I don't like to get muddy now that I'm grown up!

[Kelli in TN]

Why? Because if we let the government in even a little, then next thing we know, they'll be in all the way, and before you know it, we'll all be forbidden to even speak of religion to our own kids. AR and AK were cited as examples. Homeschooling as a way of life will be a thing of the past! Fight, people, fight for your freedoms! Ensure no cyber schools ever come to TN!!

 

!

 

 

Just curious. What did they say about AR and AK? Because they mentioned AK when they came to my town years ago, but I am thinkin there are homeschool moms on here in AK and they never talk about being forbidden to speak about religion.

 

And I am pretty sure those AR has not outlawed religion. They still have that big production at Eureka Springs, right?:D

[Penny from Tenny]

Shocked I am, I'm tellin' ya. I think you might be saying that you disagree with some of the decisions made by our homeschool leadership.

 

Yeah, the cyber school thing. Let's go there, shall we?

 

When it was first proposed to us that allowing the cyber school option would destroy our homeschooling freedoms, those freedoms fought for by our brave homeschooling pioneers, I could not wait to join the resistance movement.:patriot:

 

But as I look around at (gasp!) other states I see that they have cyber schools and they have good homeschool law and never the twain shall meet. Unless the parents want the twain to meet. And I see states where students can and do make use of public school programs and yet, their right to be homeschooled never seems to be under attack.

 

And yet here, in the volunteer state, we have no real law, no access to any public school classes, no cyber schools, and only two homeschool choices-public school oversight or church related school oversight.

 

Um, hello? The sky is not falling Chicken Little. Other states have choices and they are doing okay? What's wrong with Tennessee?

 

Gosh, if the wrong people read this I will never be allowed to attend Rally Day again, will I?

 

 

I just think Tennessee should have what other states have in the way of homeschool rights and equal access to public schools. I believe the cyberschool option should be available to those who would like that option. I believe that the CRS option should be preserved, but that there ought to be oversight options that are non-sectarian beyond the signing up with the local school board. I also believe Tennessee citizens are ready for an Ikea and a Trader Joe's.

 

 

 

Incidentally, I tried to fling you some rep but it says I have done it too recently. Next time we get together we can have a gripe fest about homeschool law!!! Our husbands will LOVE that!!

 

Kelli,

I don't know what the problem is in Tennessee. I'm sure higher minds than mine have had a thinkfest on that one. I'm honestly asking this, is it Memphis again? Do they feel threatened by the homeschoolers? I don't know. I do believe that if all those folks in Nashville who say they are so supportive of homeschooling in general really meant it, we wouldn't be having this conversation but I think one of our latest legislative issues has revealed a little more than their true colors if you kept up with that issue.

I just can't trust that they have our best interest at heart.

What do you think it is?

[gardenschooler]

Shocked I am, I'm tellin' ya. I think you might be saying that you disagree with some of the decisions made by our homeschool leadership.

 

Yeah, the cyber school thing. Let's go there, shall we?

 

When it was first proposed to us that allowing the cyber school option would destroy our homeschooling freedoms, those freedoms fought for by our brave homeschooling pioneers, I could not wait to join the resistance movement.:patriot:

 

But as I look around at (gasp!) other states I see that they have cyber schools and they have good homeschool law and never the twain shall meet. Unless the parents want the twain to meet. And I see states where students can and do make use of public school programs and yet, their right to be homeschooled never seems to be under attack.

 

And yet here, in the volunteer state, we have no real law, no access to any public school classes, no cyber schools, and only two homeschool choices-public school oversight or church related school oversight.

 

Um, hello? The sky is not falling Chicken Little. Other states have choices and they are doing okay? What's wrong with Tennessee?

 

Gosh, if the wrong people read this I will never be allowed to attend Rally Day again, will I?

 

 

I just think Tennessee should have what other states have in the way of homeschool rights and equal access to public schools. I believe the cyberschool option should be available to those who would like that option. I believe that the CRS option should be preserved, but that there ought to be oversight options that are non-sectarian beyond the signing up with the local school board. I also believe Tennessee citizens are ready for an Ikea and a Trader Joe's.

 

Incidentally, I tried to fling you some rep but it says I have done it too recently. Next time we get together we can have a gripe fest about homeschool law!!! Our husbands will LOVE that!!

 

You know, Kelli, I was really afraid you'd disown me after I wrote that. :crying: and then I'd have to go eat worms, so I was pretty nervous about even saying it.

 

Part of what really got to be there was that the inability to include religious materials in your curriculum was stressed as the down side. Now this was being presented to a Christian group, which I'm a part of, but it really rubbed me the wrong way. That's all fine and dandy for us, but what about everyone else?

 

What about my friend, Suzy Q, who isn't Christian? What about Jane, who is Christian, but doesn't use religious materials in her homeschooling? What if they want the cyber school? We're all going to fight because it's not right for us....but what about them? And of course, people like Suzy and Jane wouldn't even be at that meeting, so they'd have no idea how we're all planning to fight to keep away an option they might actually want. The whole thing just stinks, IMO.

 

As far as AK is concerned, they showed a chart tracking the huge increase in enrollment in cyber-schools over a short time span, and also cited that originally, parents were allowed to choose their own materials, even religious materials. That changed over time to state-mandated curriculum. There were just so many scare tactics used in the whole thing, and several twisted facts. I thought we deserved better, clearer info than that - but the purpose of the film wasn't to inform. It was to get everyone even more afraid.

 

About AR, they reiterated that once enrolled in a cyber-school, you can't choose religious materials, etc. But again, so many 'appeals to emotion' and other such nonsense. Insulting.

 

I'll try to dig it up through google, and you can watch it and see what you think.

 

My dh has listened to me rant about this, many a time. He agrees with me, because part of the reason we did have to go for full-time enrollment is because of the cost of outside classes also because he's learned agreeing makes me stop talking and then he can watch the ball game in peace.

 

I forgot to ask your dh how he feels about different educational philosophies. Tell him I won't leave him out next time. :lol:

 

Ikea? Trader Joe's? Now you're just dreamin', Kelli. Wow. I hope I live to see the day.

[gardenschooler]

Kelli,

I don't know what the problem is in Tennessee. I'm sure higher minds than mine have had a thinkfest on that one. I'm honestly asking this, is it Memphis again? Do they feel threatened by the homeschoolers? I don't know. I do believe that if all those folks in Nashville who say they are so supportive of homeschooling in general really meant it, we wouldn't be having this conversation but I think one of our latest legislative issues has revealed a little more than their true colors if you kept up with that issue.

I just can't trust that they have our best interest at heart.

What do you think it is?

 

We're easy prey. Sitting ducks. Jealous? I don't know. I have a conspiracy theory that they're after our test scores, and want us all lumped in together somehow, but I have a wild imagination. I did find it very suspicous that they also wanted private schoolers to take the same test - hmmm, adding private school test scores, gee, I wonder what that would do to the average? And it was all private schools they wanted lumped in, not just homeschoolers/Category IV schools. Bonafide private schools, all the good ones.

 

Really, it was just a case of "Look how unfair this test is, we've gotten in over our heads!" The tests in question - the Gateways - were apparently too difficult for a large percentage of public-schooled students to pass even though they'd been educated by the public school system their entire lives. Requiring a passing grade on it to graduate was just wildly unfair, see?

 

They say the same things about the TCAP, which is based on the TN Standards. Kids who have been educated in the TN public schools, for their entire lives, can't pass the TCAP.

 

And, what better way to slide on your own failing schools than to start pointing fingers, in any direction other than your own?

 

So the homeschoolers and the private schoolers should take the Gateways, too, because the ps'ers can't pass them (I believe this is called 'fuzzy logic', or 'new logic' :D). The angle was to get the ps'ers excused from having to take the Gateways, not to get us to take it.

 

So now, if you can't pass a test designed on the curriculum you've supposedly been learning for 13 years, no problem. You can still get a diploma. We don't want anyone to feel bad.

 

I'm not even going to go into how completely dumbed-down those tests are, and I won't bring up again that my child who never set foot in a public school until this year passed with 'advanced' on all of them - high enough that she was excused from her final exams in those subjects that were tested. Or that she passed with an advanced score even on subjects she'd had in 9th grade, when she was still homeschooled.

 

But the kids who attend ps can't pass them.

 

And I'm the one who can't get a 'state-approved' diploma for my child, short of sending her there.

 

Kelli explains this a lot more clearly than I do.

[Penny from Tenny]

We're easy prey. Sitting ducks. Jealous? I don't know. I have a conspiracy theory that they're after our test scores, and want us all lumped in together somehow, but I have a wild imagination. I did find it very suspicous that they also wanted private schoolers to take the same test - hmmm, adding private school test scores, gee, I wonder what that would do to the average? And it was all private schools they wanted lumped in, not just homeschoolers/Category IV schools. Bonafide private schools, all the good ones.

 

Really, it was just a case of "Look how unfair this test is, we've gotten in over our heads!" The tests in question - the Gateways - were apparently too difficult for a large percentage of public-schooled students to pass even though they'd been educated by the public school system their entire lives. Requiring a passing grade on it to graduate was just wildly unfair, see?

 

They say the same things about the TCAP, which is based on the TN Standards. Kids who have been educated in the TN public schools, for their entire lives, can't pass the TCAP.

 

And, what better way to slide on your own failing schools than to start pointing fingers, in any direction other than your own?

 

So the homeschoolers and the private schoolers should take the Gateways, too, because the ps'ers can't pass them (I believe this is called 'fuzzy logic', or 'new logic' :D). The angle was to get the ps'ers excused from having to take the Gateways, not to get us to take it.

 

So now, if you can't pass a test designed on the curriculum you've supposedly been learning for 13 years, no problem. You can still get a diploma. We don't want anyone to feel bad.

 

I'm not even going to go into how completely dumbed-down those tests are, and I won't bring up again that my child who never set foot in a public school until this year passed with 'advanced' on all of them - high enough that she was excused from her final exams in those subjects that were tested. Or that she passed with an advanced score even on subjects she'd had in 9th grade, when she was still homeschooled.

 

But the kids who attend ps can't pass them.

 

And I'm the one who can't get a 'state-approved' diploma for my child, short of sending her there.

 

Kelli explains this a lot more clearly than I do.

 

:iagree: No, I get it. I really do. I totally agree but that's why I don't think we can trust them to have our best interest in ANYTHING they propose for us. Just so you know, I don't like the manipulation/scare tactics on the homeschool side either. Also, I had a son who received a full scholarship from the Air Force and his category IV diploma was NOT an issue. Odd that the state of TN wouldn't have given him a job, isn't it? Now he's going to be at Andrews Air Force Base in security (you know, the home of Air Force One) Kind of ironic.

[Kelli in TN]

You know, Kelli, I was really afraid you'd disown me after I wrote that. :crying: and then I'd have to go eat worms, so I was pretty nervous about even saying it.

 

Well, don't worry. I'll bring chocolate and caramel sauce and another can of whipped cream!!!

 

I forgot to ask your dh how he feels about different educational philosophies. Tell him I won't leave him out next time. :lol:

 

.

 

Um, he just wants to know 1. How much will this cost? and 2. What will their ACT scores be?

 

Beyond that, homeschooling is my domain.

[gardenschooler]

Also, I had a son who received a full scholarship from the Air Force and his category IV diploma was NOT an issue. Odd that the state of TN wouldn't have given him a job, isn't it? Now he's going to be at Andrews Air Force Base in security (you know, the home of Air Force One) Kind of ironic.

 

Yep, that is pretty ironic. It's good to know our piddly little Category IV diplomas won't hold us back from much else.

 

You must have done something right, Penny! What an amazing young man your ds must be!

[gardenschooler]

Um, he just wants to know 1. How much will this cost? and 2. What will their ACT scores be?

 

Beyond that, homeschooling is my domain.

 

You do know that when my dh was answering my silly question, it was all an act, right? He doesn't know how he feels about any particular thing. He was just parroting back what I've said a million times! And everything I showed him as possibilities for next year, he'd say the same thing..."Yeah! That sounds great!" :glare:

[Kathy in MD]

That's true of private schools as well. The legislature has no control over what is taught in private schools. ......

 

In my state, the DOE does have some say in what private schools must include. My understanding is that it is tighter than what homeschoolers need to include, but it's still pretty loose and variances are available. For example, in the 4th grade they should cover state history, but my ds's private school did a brief unit study on it and met the state requirements. But had I been home schooling that year all I needed to do was social studies in some shape or form - geography, ancient history, world history, whatever I wanted. High school regulations might be tighter.

[teamturner]

This is the article that I mentioned in my earlier post. It's a story from Illinois in 2005.

 

Homeschool Graduate Told to Get a GED or be Fired

http://hslda.org/hs/state/il/200512190.asp

 

 

I agree with the others who have said that homeschoolers shouldn't need to get a GED based on principle. Also, someone else mentioned that if the state colleges don't require a GED then the state shouldn't either.

[Penny from Tenny]

This is the article that I mentioned in my earlier post. It's a story from Illinois in 2005.

 

Homeschool Graduate Told to Get a GED or be Fired

http://hslda.org/hs/state/il/200512190.asp

 

 

I agree with the others who have said that homeschoolers shouldn't need to get a GED based on principle. Also, someone else mentioned that if the state colleges don't require a GED then the state shouldn't either.

 

 

:iagree: Penny

[Sebastian (a lady)]

And, what better way to slide on your own failing schools than to start pointing fingers, in any direction other than your own?

 

So the homeschoolers and the private schoolers should take the Gateways, too, because the ps'ers can't pass them (I believe this is called 'fuzzy logic', or 'new logic' :D). The angle was to get the ps'ers excused from having to take the Gateways, not to get us to take it.

 

 

I had a dear friend whose husband was a very good elementary school principal. She thought homeschooling was the bees knees and did everything she could to put books into our church library that would benefit lots of families, including homeschoolers.

But I remember one heated conversation with him where he just insisted that homeschoolers should have to take the same standards of learning exams as the public schooled kids. There was just no bending on this for him. To allow homeschoolers to get away with not being subject to the tests was unfair in his mind. (I will add that he wasn't a huge fan of the tests and probably felt that they were stifling to the talented teachers he had working for him).

[Penny from Tenny]

Many of my friends in TN think this also. Their friends in the PS just don't see how we as "unqualified" teachers can "get away with" not having to have a standardized test when they have to "teach to the test".

 

In TN there isn't a problem for those students pursuing a college track because their ACT/SAT scores substantiate their "success" in their primary learning. And once they have a college degree it doesn't matter about their HS diploma. But those not pursuing a college track or entering into a tech. school are the ones who are having difficulties because of the "new" application of the law in regard to HS diplomas. There has been much discussion of having a particular score on the ACT/SAT count as an equivalency to an "exit" exam. But some say this is unfair to students who don't test well. Another problem in TN is that the ps's don't use a nationally normed test like Stanford/CAT. They created their own test (TCAP) that would require the private schools or public schools to have to use THEIR curriculum in order to pass. We stopped that effort earlier this year in the legislature. I do believe some sort of agreement will have to be made and not all homeschoolers will be happy with the outcome. We are sleeping with one eye open in TN!