how 'old' is a 14yo, really?

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I don't remember what I was like, at 14, at least as far as what I was able to read.

 

My son is about to turn 14. And I'm thinking of having him read "Fall of Giants" for school. It's a big book, but I know he can handle that. It's the content that I'm not sure about.

 

It's about WWI. So there's violence. I think he would be ok with that. I'm halfway through the book, and the descriptions aren't bad. But there's also s3x. Descriptive s3x. Mind you, nothing I find objectionable. No r@pe for example. It's consensual (at least so far) and healthy. Some of it is extra marital, but since my son himself was born before we got married, it's not really something I can shield him from. :001_huh:

 

We're pretty open about it, must be our French side. No problem showing the naked body etc... But I honestly don't remember how much s3x I was reading about at that age and neither does my husband.

 

Am I crazy in thinking this book would be appropriate for a 14yo? It's a great view of WWI, and explains/illustrates a lot of what was happening, in Russia, Germany, England, France and the USA. Not just at war, but at home too with the suffragette movement, the revolution in Russia, etc... I would happily let a 16yo read it. I'm just not entirely sure about a 14yo?

[regentrude]

When my DD was younger and encountered books with content that made her uncomfortable, she simply skipped the passage.

I think at 14 he would be able to self censor and skip ahead if it makes him uncomfortable.

I know definitely that my kids would be mortified to DISCUSS with me if it's OK for them - they'd prefer me to hand them the book and let them sort it out.

Not sure whether this helps.

 

Of course, every young person is different. Many 14 y/o have firsthand experience... (and no, I don't think your son)

Edited September 2, 2011 by regentrude

[elegantlion]

:bigear: My son is turning 14 as well. I've been asking myself those same questions lately. It's difficult to remember back that far. I had one sister and we had many discussions with my mother, but the subject of s*x was never broached with my father. Having a son and a dh who is not a literature reader, and is more conservative than me, I've not been able to find a balance.

[Hunter]

I was 17 when I read my first book with s3x in it. It was Valley of the Horses, the second book in The Clan of the Cave Bear series. I remember reading certain passages over and over and over trying to fully understand what was taking place.

 

My boys were exposed to a LOT at very young ages, but not because I gave it to them. Sigh!

 

EDIT: Actually my boys were reading quite a bit about s3x in the Bible! And I did give them that :-0

Edited September 2, 2011 by Hunter

[Sevilla]

If your DS knows about sex, and you talk with him about how to skip gratuitous passages, then I would let him read it (knowing full well that he might choose to read some of those passages anyway). Everyone learns about sex as teenagers - much of it is rubbish and innaccurate.

 

What makes me say that Fall of Giants would be ok is that the sex depicted is consensual, realistic (for the most past), healthy (for the most part), time period appropriate, and not excessive (in my opinion). The message he will receive about sex from those passages are that both men and women have a role and pleasure in it and that it's for adult partners and that it's varied and a learning process as well. He'll also be exposed to the issue of consequences for illicit sex with an unwisely chosen partner. I had a FAR bigger problem with the sex scenes in Follett's Pillars of the Earth than I did in Fall of Giants, and that was exclusively b/c the sex in that book was often violent and included rape.

 

The only issue that would make me hesitate about (depending on your convictions) is that it depicts unmarried sexual activity in a positive light and if you believe that sex is for marriage then you might feel that Fall of Giants glorifies the opposite of that.

 

I can say for myself personally I was reading adult books with sex scenes in them in 7th/8th grade (Tom Clancy novels). I didn't fully understand the details of the passages because I wasn't sexually active, but I got the gist of it. I eventually felt a conviction about skipping over the passages once I knew what was in it so I didn't dwell on it. But I don't feel reading the book damaged me and I would probably just talk with my child before reading it.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

The only issue that would make me hesitate about (depending on your convictions) is that it depicts unmarried sexual activity in a positive light and if you believe that sex is for marriage then you might feel that Fall of Giants glorifies the opposite of that.

 

 

Sevilla,

you seem to think of Fall of Giants the same way as I do. Except for the above. While there is unmarried sexual activity, there's a heavy cost to it. Women get thrown out of their job, men get beaten and almost killed. The only woman who does not get pregnant is the one who got illicitly married first. No consequences for her. (at least so far, I'm only halfway through the book). So I wouldn't say Fall of Giants *glorifies* sexual encounters outside of marriage.

 

 

Regentrude,

I do think my son would self-censor. He does skip passages easily in books that he chooses to read. I never thought of that aspect. He will either self-censor if he feels uncomfortable, or read and re-read if he's the curious sort :tongue_smilie: At least it's healthy sex.

 

I think I'll have a go at it. I can always tell him he's allowed to put the book down and stop reading.

[kiana]

I know at that age and younger I read many books with lots of sex scenes in them (I only really remember my mother confiscating one book, ever) and just sort of skimmed them. There are a lot of books (clan of the cave bear, anne mccaffrey's pern series) that I went back and read later and said 'HOLY COW!' -- I had barely noticed it.

[Sevilla]

While there is unmarried sexual activity, there's a heavy cost to it. Women get thrown out of their job, men get beaten and almost killed. The only woman who does not get pregnant is the one who got illicitly married first.

Her brother has sex often with the girl upstairs just because they both enjoy it. Later on they develop a stronger bond and eventually get married, but the earlier sex is portrayed positively in spite of its 'no committment' nature. The brother even loses his virginity to her as a 'going away present' type of scenario IIRC. (Not sure if you're at that part yet - it's not a spoiler by any means).

[lionfamily1999]

Dd is encountering sex everywhere, it seems like. She's almost 15, but she too has found that she can just skip over the parts that make her uncomfortable (or read them when no one is looking). I was 14 when I found a copy of the The Happy Hooker. Granted, this is the first time I've shared that bit of personal history, I did find it... shocking, but except for some self-examination, I managed to keep from turning into a raving lunatic.

 

IOW, I think 14 is the age when curiousity starts to get aroused (har-dee-har-har) and I'm actually (crazy for a Christian, I know) alright with dd learning bits and pieces here and there. Thank God, there's no copy of the Happy Hooker (or the Sleeping Beauty books) in my home, but I'm sure she's getting some self-ed from the history books, science books, and art books laying all over the house.

[Nan in Mass]

I think that is about when a neighbor gave me Thornbirds to read. Yuk. I immediately took a dislike to any books that thick that said sweeping or saga on the back. It took awhile for my family to convince me that I would probably like The Shell Seekers grin when I was 40ish. OTOH, I gave my sons Silver Pigs when they were 14. There are adult scenes in that book. I told them I thought they might enjoy the book but that there would be bits they would be more comfortable skipping over, both adult and violent, and reminded them that things that they put in their head they have to live with forever. None of the three complained, and they went on to read many more by the same author, so I guess they didn't react as negatively as I would have at their age. I think learning to self-censor is a good skill to learn, especially these days.

Nan

 

ETA - Silver Pigs was the exception. In general, they avoided adult best sellers until they hit college. I didn't stop them, but I didn't introduce them, either, and we talked fairly frequently about how some things are more fun when you are older.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Nan in Mass

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

(Not sure if you're at that part yet - it's not a spoiler by any means).

 

 

Yup, I read that part. But he's going to war! Cut him some slack ;-) Anyone in that situation doesn't have his head screwed right .. :tongue_smilie: (oh my... I'm killing myself here... :lol: :001_huh: )

 

Nan > I loved Silver Pigs and all that series. We own them all. The books become much more comedy after the first few ones. Silver Pigs is probably the most serious of them all. I haven't handed them to my boy yet though. I'm not sure he would be interested. He dislikes history, unless it's modern.

[KathyBC]

I don't think I could rationally compare how a s3x scene would linger in the memory between a 14yo boy and a 30-something woman. If it were me, I would wait awhile.

 

ETA That sounds so wrong, but I can't think how to re-word. I hope you get my meaning.

[Julie in MN]

I don't think I could rationally compare how a s3x scene would linger in the memory between a 14yo boy and a 30-something woman. If it were me, I would wait awhile.

 

ETA That sounds so wrong, but I can't think how to re-word. I hope you get my meaning.

:iagree:

 

I haven't had any problem finding loads of books without these scenes for high school assignments.

 

My kids know plenty, we live in a graphic culture after all, but they don't really want it & I like to show them that entertainment and study *can* be accomplished in less graphic ways. I don't censure their personal reading & viewing, I just discuss things along the way. But as for school, I try to *assign* things with a high moral bar. There are a very few exceptions that seem necessary because they are so pervasive in our culture, such as knowing what "The Scarlet Letter" is about before graduating high school. But generally, I want to set the bar high when I possibly can.

 

Julie

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ds14 read "All Quiet on the Western Front" last year. It's also set during WWI. Perhaps you might consider it?

[8filltheheart]

I don't think I could rationally compare how a s3x scene would linger in the memory between a 14yo boy and a 30-something woman. If it were me, I would wait awhile.

 

ETA That sounds so wrong, but I can't think how to re-word. I hope you get my meaning.

 

My thoughts when I read the OP were along the lines of there is a huge difference between a freshman and a sr. Just between 14-17/18 major shifts occur. For example, I personally would never hand Brave New World to a 14 yo. But a sr......they are in a different place and the conversations would be different.

 

Don't know how to explain it other than once you have seen them in the different ages, you recognize their differences. :tongue_smilie:

[Jenny in Florida]

It depends a lot on the kid in question.

 

By the time my daughter was 14, she was finishing her sophomore year of college, having lived on campus the whole time. She was reading whatever was assigned in her classes and whatever she decided to pick up at the bookstore. She's a "sturdy" kid in most ways and has no problem reading, understanding and appreciating books with "mature" content.

 

By the time I was 14, I was reading whatever I wanted, too, mostly from the grown-up sections of the bookstore. I read lots of stuff with sexual content, and it didn't phase me.

 

My son, on the other hand, just isn't comfortable yet with it. He's 13 and, although he "gets it" when stuff does come up, he would never choose a book with explicit sexual content left to his own devices. So, I try not to choose such books for him, either.

 

I think, in your shoes, if I really thought the book was one he would enjoy, I'd ask my son outright how he felt about it.

[FaithManor]

When my DD was younger and encountered books with content that made her uncomfortable, she simply skipped the passage.

I think at 14 he would be able to self censor and skip ahead if it makes him uncomfortable.

I know definitely that my kids would be mortified to DISCUSS with me if it's OK for them - they'd prefer me to hand them the book and let them sort it out.

Not sure whether this helps.

 

Of course, every young person is different. Many 14 y/o have firsthand experience... (and no, I don't think your son)

 

 

Mortified!!!! Yep, that's the term! Ds would definitely skip the s*x and if I brought it up, he'd probably wilt and die right in front of me.

 

I was more than able to handle that stuff at 14 and so was dd. I've got nephews that are 16 and 17 and so immature that if they were my sons, I wouldn't dream of handing a mature book like you have described to them. I think that at 14 the maturity level can vary wildly.

 

Faith