TOG: How to help a child become more independent who struggles with staying on task?

[Jennefer@SSA]

This year is a huge jump for my oldest. In many subjects he is expected to read and complete many assignments on his own. We are struggling in a few areas but history is the main one I am thinking through right now. We are using TOG and I have him in the UG level.

 

He is very bright and very capable of all the reading in the UG assignments...if I am right there to read with him and keep him focused. We are in our fourth week of school and I am finding that he is racing through his reading assignments but cannot narrate back to me what he read or answer simple comprehension questions.

 

How do I help him transition to being an independent learner? Should I make him come to me after each few pages of reading? Create worksheets for him to answer as he goes through each page? My schedule currently has me reading his brothers' TOG books orally to them while he is reading independently. It would be hard to be interrupted every few minutes to keep big brother on track. Can anyone share ideas or strategies with me on what they have done or think they might do? Am I expecting too much too soon to expect him to be able to do his readings alone in 5th grade at the start of the year?

 

Thank you!

Edited August 25, 2011 by Jennefer@SSA

[Tracy]

:bigear: Maybe the advice in this thread will help with dh? :tongue_smilie:

[TheAutumnOak]

This year is a huge jump for my oldest. In many subjects he is expected to read and complete many assignments on his own. We are struggling in a few areas but history is the main one I am thinking through right now. We are using TOG and I have him in the UG level.

 

He is very bright and very capable of all the reading in the UG assignments...if I am right there to read with him and keep him focused. We are in our fourth week of school and I am finding that he is racing through his reading assignments but cannot narrate back to me what he read or answer simple comprehension questions.

 

How do I help him transition to being an independent learner? Should I make him come to me after each few pages of reading? Create worksheets for him to answer as he goes through each page? My schedule currently has me reading his brothers' TOG books orally to them while he is reading independently. It would be hard to be interrupted every few minutes to keep big brother on track. Can anyone share ideas or strategies with me on what they have done or think they might do? Am I expecting too much too soon to expect him to be able to do his readings alone in 5th grade at the start of the year?

 

Thank you!

 

I am all :bigear: because what I put in bold is what is happening with us!...We have only done week 1 so far, but I am worried that he is not comprehending everything he is reading...My son is also in 5th doing UG...

Is there any advice out there for us? :bigear:

[Jennefer@SSA]

Phew! Glad I am not the only one. :) I posted this over on the TOG forums as well but those move so much more slowly so I am assuming I will get more responses here. If I do get a bite there I'll pass the information along.

[AngelBee]

Not only one(s) :grouphug:

 

We are adapting TOG a bit to meet for this EXACT reason.

 

We are using task cards and doing some LG reading for narration. My ds11 reading level is almost high school level, but narration is difficult for him. Same with dd9, but her reading level is lower and she is a MAJOR perfectionist. :glare:

[VBCaroline]

It has taken my 12 yo ds much longer than dds to learn to work independently. He is doing D work this year, but I am going to check the answers to his history and lit lessons immediately and have him redo them if necessary. I'm hoping that he takes a bit more interest in the quality of his work this year because he is participating in an online co-op.

 

Last year (11, 6th grade), I had to do much of his science and history reading aloud, and I asked questions frequently to make sure he was paying attention. I think it just takes some boys longer to mature. 7th grade looks completely different for ds than it did for dd last year.

[Time for Chocolate]

Check out LearningRX. My Assistant Pastor said the brain retraining exercises helped his son a lot with the same issues you are describing. His son is 16 years old.

 

HTH,

Judy

[matilda]

Here are somethings that I am doing with my dd (D level).

1. Give her small chunks of reading and then we talk about it immediately afterwards.

2. Have her read through the thinking questions that go with a particular resource so that she knows exactly what to look for.

3. Do the reading with the SAP right in front of her, so that she can answer questions as they come along.

4. Spread the weeks out. We are doing Y2 and there is a lot of reading, so we are spreading some of the weeks out, so that the amount of reading/answering questions is not completely overwhelming.

5. We are also working on narration skills using SWB's books. It is much easier to build general narration skills on those passages than using the TOG books.

 

You can probably start by giving him small assignments and then getting bigger. "Read this paragraph and answer these 2 questions, while I am reading with your brothers . . ." and then talk about it immediately after you are done. Then gradually give longer assignments.

 

Another thing that I am doing is using some the UG books as read-alouds for all of the kids. That way the older dd has a general overview of what we are talking about before she has to go out on her own.

[M&M]

One of the things I love about TOG is that I can often see very clearly what skills need work. You are both jumping into TOG for the first time, so are your children.

 

Take the time to ease them into new skills, matilda gave some good tips on ways to break things down. Narration is a skill, if you are using WWE you can see how the skill of narration progresses through the levels. If you are not using WWE, read a small section to your dc, or have dc read a chapter or even just a page from an assignment; ask a few questions about what happened, and then help your child put those answers into sentences, write them down for the child, and then show the child his narration. You can use the SAP, pick one or two questions, people, or threads and have the child read to find this information. Have them tell you what happened or who the person was and what he did.

 

My oldest son had trouble with comprehesion, he would read his TOG and would know very little of what he read. Last year (6th grade) we started working through WWE, it made a huge difference in his comprehension, and his writing. I didn't realize that he needed things broken down into smaller pieces.

[Rhonda in TX]

I have a couple of blog posts that show some ideas for narrating. I was going to type them out, but it would be easier if you just read them yourself

 

Using a Visual Aid

 

Written (typed) Narrations

[Guest JeanetteInElSal]

Hi Jennifer,

 

My dd is also 10 and in 5th grade. We are also using TOG for the first time. If I had a dollar for every time she compared what she had to read up against her 1st grade sister, I could buy TOG Yr 2!

 

After much prayer, I think we have found some strategies that work well. First, my dd loves animals. She breathes, sleeps and thinks animals all day long. So before she reads or writes a paper, I ask her to BE a certain animal such as a cat, bird or dog and provide a narration based upon what the animal witnessed. For example, the 1st writing assignment for her level was to write about daily living in Ancient Egypt. I tweaked it a bit by asking her to write a paper about a family cat living in Ancient Egypt. Who was its family? What did his house look like, etc? She did a great job!

 

Does your son have a passion or two that could be incorporated into the lessons? Like others who have responded, I read aloud some of the assignments. She reads well and comprehends well, just doesn't like to read if it is not about animals. I am slowly adding more to her assignments.

 

We write out her expected reading assignments on an index card which she hangs on her bulletin board. Everyday I ask her by what time does she think she can have all her reading for the day done. She gives me the time so SHE has to follow through. I am trying to make her OWN her work as well.

 

It is a struggle at times. She will pretend to be languid or too tired to work. So I simply send her to bed earlier that night...she doesn't like that too much so has suddenly been more awake for lessons.

 

Two more things...we love the lapbooks sold through TOG. For us, they are worth it. If your son is hands on and likes creating, these are a real way to make sure he is reading and retaining. The directions are a breeze and we simply cut, paste and write in info.

 

Finally, check out www.simplycharlottemason.com She has great narration ideas under her Time Savers on the left side of her website. Since my dd is a poor speaker (when placed on the spot), I have her privately narrate into our voice recorder. Later, we both listen to it. I do not critique it because I can see she realizes she needs to work here as well, although she is way more creative and animated with this method. I am hoping this will help her work through some of her shyness. But she does enjoy this means of narrating.

 

I hope some of these ideas help. I often feel the stress of seeing the dialetic assignments and pray we can get there. One day at a time.

 

jeanette;)

[Clover11]

First, my dd loves animals. She breathes, sleeps and thinks animals all day long. So before she reads or writes a paper, I ask her to BE a certain animal such as a cat, bird or dog and provide a narration based upon what the animal witnessed. For example, the 1st writing assignment for her level was to write about daily living in Ancient Egypt. I tweaked it a bit by asking her to write a paper about a family cat living in Ancient Egypt. Who was its family? What did his house look like, etc? She did a great job!

 

What a great idea!

[PeterPan]

I'm not sure you have a narration problem so much as an engagement problem. Was he able to narrate last year when you were doing SOTW? (Did I see in your posts that you did SOTW last year?) Does he narrate acceptably for other things he reads?

 

I think you want to pause and ponder whether your really need to break up your kids for history. At this point, it sounds like he would engage better if you were all doing it together. Or he needs something different to interact with. Have you thought about trying him on the VP online, self-paced history to see how he'd do with that? That would be independent, meaty, and leave room for your read-alouds. Or use MOH as a spine, which would work well with that mix of ages. I know you have TOG and want to use it. I'm just throwing out solutions.

 

My dd wasn't "independent" at that age, not at all. Some time by 30 hopefully he will be. But the specific age, well that really varies with the kid. With what you're describing, I think even a worksheet would be hard-pressed to help him. It just sounds like he's not engaging. When my dd does that, it means there's a total disconnect. That's when I have to decide whether that particular book or text is a hill to die on, or whether I'm going to change to something my dc WILL engage with. And, sigh, it still happens. We're always learning. :)

 

Have you ever thought about a textbook for him? Literally just a TEXTBOOK. Something he could read, have 5 questions to answer, and be done. Not every kid likes history, and sometimes curricula like TOG expect the kid to engage more and enjoy it more, and they sort of aggravate it. It might be that what you did before had a different style that was working better for him (more efficient, narrative instead of biographical, whatever). It's just something to think about. Or start back into the SOTW, just more deeply this time around, if it worked well for you the first time.

 

7th is better than 5th for independence. Be patient a bit longer, regroup, and make it work. Baby steps.

[heart'sjoy]

ds 10 UG.

 

I keep remembering the advice on the TOG site. TOG is a huge buffet. Choose a few to sample deeply and a few to spice here and there.

 

I had ds reading out of the D history spine, Usborne's Encyclopedia of the Ancient World. I'd pick 10-12 pages out of the 20 assigned. DS read 2-4 pages a day and would narrate back to me 2 new or curious things he found. After about 4 weeks, he's up to 4 things. Why D level? It's the one I had.

 

I usually have one chapter book going that's right at his reading level with no extra work attached to it.

 

I aim for one or two literature application assignments a week. One, if we had heavy lab journal work. Sometimes a narration from a myth, a character analysis chart, or a plot analysis chart.

 

Overall comprehension is best when we work on his timeline and we can discuss the main history threads (The threads are the priorities to aim for and really help me narrow my focus when I get overwhelmed.) I only try to have one or two in mind. Also when he writes a 3 paragraph story summary, or 3 paragraphs about a culture/ ,it sticks.

 

 

A future look. Dd will be 12 and started D level discussions in July. I started at about 1/2 of the accountability questions. Now she can prepare all of the work. Venn diagrams and comparison charts are wonderful tools to get the info down and then to begin digesting it in the thinking questions. I'll be looking for venns and comparison charts for ds to do to grease his comprehension wheels this next year.

[jewel7123]

ds 10 UG.

 

I keep remembering the advice on the TOG site. TOG is a huge buffet. MUST remember this' date=' self! [/i']Choose a few to sample deeply and a few to spice here and there.

 

I had ds reading out of the D history spine, Usborne's Encyclopedia of the Ancient World. I'd pick 10-12 pages out of the 20 assigned. DS read 2-4 pages a day and would narrate back to me 2 new or curious things he found. After about 4 weeks, he's up to 4 things. Why D level? It's the one I had.

 

I usually have one chapter book going that's right at his reading level with no extra work attached to it.

 

I aim for one or two literature application assignments a week. One, if we had heavy lab journal work. Sometimes a narration from a myth, a character analysis chart, or a plot analysis chart.

 

Overall comprehension is best when we work on his timelineand we can discuss the main history threads (The threads are the priorities to aim for and really help me narrow my focus when I get overwhelmed.) I only try to have one or two in mind. Also when he writes a 3 paragraph story summary, or 3 paragraphs about a culture/ ,it sticks.

 

 

A future look. Dd will be 12 and started D level discussions in July. I started at about 1/2 of the accountability questions. Now she can prepare all of the work. Venn diagrams and comparison charts are wonderful tools to get the info down and then to begin digesting it in the thinking questions. I'll be looking for venns and comparison charts for ds to do to grease his comprehension wheels this next year.

 

How long have you been using TOG, HeartsJoy? It sounds like you have a really good handle on how to make TOG work for you, instead of the other way around. I'm just a newbie listening in...... :bigear:

[2squared]

I'm not doing TOG, but I read your post b/c I am interested in wisdom of how to move my oldest along independently. My 9yo is just starting this year to be responsible for some reading assignments on her own, and she is struggling with the transition in that she doesn't want to be doing her schoolwork by herself. She wants to be with the group, just like we always have done. So, this particular comment struck me as I read your OP.

 

My schedule currently has me reading his brothers' TOG books orally to them while he is reading independently.

 

Am I expecting too much too soon to expect him to be able to do his readings alone in 5th grade at the start of the year?

 

Could it be that your oldest wants to be included in the cozy reading time with his younger bros and not "on the outside" reading by himself? Is he reading through his material quickly so that he can join the rest of the group?

 

Right now, as painful as it is, I am sitting with my dd while she reads through her independent readings. My hope is that sitting with her is an intermediate training step.

[corbie]

One of the best things I implemented in our program was a weekly check sheet. My kids call it a "checky sheet". I look at each week of TOG and realistically look at what each kid can do. Like others have said, you don't have to do everything in TOG. Even my 6 yr old has a "checky sheet" this year. They love marking off the things they have done and knowing what they have yet to do. We have used this system for a couple of years now. Each child really gains ownership of their assignments. If it is something that requires my help, they come to me to remind me to do this assignment. They know they can work hard and make Friday easier - more play time. The best part is it gives them ownership and responsibility.

 

I got the forms from Donnayoung.com. I use the Excel forms so that I can do many weeks at a time. They feel such a sense of accomplishment after completing their week's goals. I wish I had done this much earlier.

 

BTW, my family is loving TOG. However, sometimes the worksheets are not appropriate for my child's level. I just adapt them.

 

I'm not sure if that is what you were looking for, but I wanted to share because it has helped me so much with TOG.

 

Good luck

[Jennefer@SSA]

Thank you each so much for the very helpful replies. I posted this a week and a half ago and then promptly forgot all about it (more likely my brain was on overload and refused to let me remember :tongue_smilie:). Today I am preparing our next few weeks of TOG and remembered this post. What a treat to come back and see such great advice.

 

I am much relieved to know that I am not alone in this struggle. That is a huge comfort. I have realized how unprepared we truly are for narrations. We completed SOTW 4 last year with all the accompanying outlines as well as WT1. I got WWS1 confident we could ease right in...WRONG! :tongue_smilie: We need major work on narrations and it begins with even trying to identify the main points of a story. I backtracked and spent two weeks trying to remediate hoping to jump back into WWS1; in the end I realized that going back to WWE4 would be a better fit for ds at this time. I would rather start too far back and move at a bit more rapid pace (if he proves ready) than start a bit too far ahead and proceed at a snail's pace.

 

I remember a post that Colleen in NS wrote (I think I am attributing it to the correct author) awhile back about how most of the time in her homeschool journey they have had struggles she can pinpoint it back to not following WTM guidelines/recs. I wish I could find the post. It was great, and in this case, I can say the exact thing! My oldest is an aspie and narrations were *H*A*R*D* when he was younger (all kids can certainly struggle with narrations but I think aspies/asd kids find them particularly challenging). With many difficult skills we just set it aside, and when we pick it back up months later he is ready and gets it right away. Not with this skill. Not by a mile. Hindsight is 20/20 but I feel like I should've know better. Narration is not like most other skills. And I didn't see the big picture. I had no idea how important narrations would become. Again the hindsight is 20/20 thing.

 

Back to TOG. I am writing new lesson plans this week. Baby steps. Baby steps! Thanks OElizabeth. :001_smile: I am having him read more with us and just assigning a few pages for him to read alone. We will build up. I won't give up this time. But I will make it manageable for him...and for me. I am incorporating so many of your wonderful ideas: Rhonda I love your visual aids to help with narrations. I already have an idea for one of his readings this week that will incorporate this. M&M and Matilda thanks for the support and ideas. Corbie, love the checklist. Thanks to each of you who shared. Ah...I love this board.

[Hedgehogs4]

I was concerned about this very thing. We now have one full week under our belts and ds 10 has had no problems, but I think it is in part due to me taking grate pains to help him stay on task.

 

I made up bookmarks with exactly how many pages he needed to read in each book each week and stuck them in the books at the right spots. I went over the books and the assignments with him at the beginning of the week and checked numerous times over the course of each day to see how much he had read and how much he had left. To my surprise he kept a very good handle on it, but it helped that he was never in question about what needed to get done. Also, those books stayed out on the table the whole week so that he wouldn't forget one or another...

[Jennefer@SSA]

I was concerned about this very thing. We now have one full week under our belts and ds 10 has had no problems, but I think it is in part due to me taking grate pains to help him stay on task.

 

I made up bookmarks with exactly how many pages he needed to read in each book each week and stuck them in the books at the right spots. I went over the books and the assignments with him at the beginning of the week and checked numerous times over the course of each day to see how much he had read and how much he had left. To my surprise he kept a very good handle on it, but it helped that he was never in question about what needed to get done. Also, those books stayed out on the table the whole week so that he wouldn't forget one or another...

 

I love this idea as well. Bookmarks with boxes ds can check when he is finished will work well for him as he loves the accomplishment of checking off a box when he completes something (apple didn't fall far from the tree in this manner ;)). I also love the idea of a Monday morning meeting where we go over "the big picture" for the week. I think it will help him when he knows, not only what is to be done each day, but the whole of the week. I want to incorporate a Friday meeting as well to sum everything up. We will talk lots and lots during the week about what he is reading and learning but I love the idea of wrapping up any loose ends on Friday.

 

One of the ways I teach paragraph writing is to say, "Tell 'em what you are going to tell 'em. Tell 'em. Tell 'em what you told 'em!" -- basically, introduction, body and conclusion. I am liking the idea more and more of a Monday morning meeting to give an introduction to the week and clearly go over assignments. Then follow through during the week with lots of discussion and feedback. Finishing up on Friday with a meeting to tie it up with a bow.

 

I think the bulk of your post was to share the idea about bookmarks (which I love) but I ran with the meeting idea buried within. :D Inspiration at 6:00 AM is a good thing.