Your experience with classical HSing and accelerated learners

[Runningmom80]

I'm trying to figure out how I'll stay on the path of a classical education with an accelerated learner. I'm thinking I'm going to end up deviating from TWTM and being more eclectic in my HS approach. The problems I forsee is staying on course with history, and the pace of other subjects.

 

 

Maybe I'm too naive to make any assumptions at this point. I guess I'm just wondering how it's played out for others who have been doing this for a while.

[Corraleno]

I'm trying to figure out how I'll stay on the path of a classical education with an accelerated learner. I'm thinking I'm going to end up deviating from TWTM and being more eclectic in my HS approach. The problems I forsee is staying on course with history, and the pace of other subjects.

Obviously every kid is different, but with DS, who loves both history & science, I just supply him with materials and get out of the way. Attempts to force him to stick to a plan/schedule just really frustrated him and seriously dampened his enthusiasm for both subjects. On his own, he's chosen to go much deeper, and his understanding (especially of history) is at a much higher level, than I would have ever expected of him if I were planning and scheduling those subjects. Teaching Company courses have revolutionized our homeschool, because they provide college-level material in a format that's much more accessible than college-level textbooks (especially for an elementary/middle schooler).

 

Jackie

[Crimson Wife]

I started the 4 yr. history & science cycle in K but stretched ancients out over 2 years because I wanted to start with a unit on evolution & also include all the Biblical history (we're Catholic Christians so the two aren't mutually exclusive ;)). Once we got to the Reformation era, however, I decided that world history was getting a bit dark so I decided to do 2 years of American history instead.

[boscopup]

I'm not sure why the WTM 4 year cycle HAS to be deviated from with an AL? For example, in history, you would just go deeper, maybe hitting logic stage level work before 5th grade and rhetoric stage work before 9th grade (the stages aren't necessarily correlated to ages, and SWB even acknowledges that and says they can occur earlier in "gifted" children).

 

The places where I've had to go "off grade" have mostly been math, reading, grammar. Some might also go "off grade" in writing (we might later on, but the physical writing has to catch up with the brain - his oral narrations are often better than the examples in the books, so I'm pleased with those!).

 

Now you don't necessarily have to follow WTM if you don't want to. Some people take a year or two off to do something else. Some people use the traditional scope & sequence in high school for history/econ/gov. Those are decisions you make that won't get you booted from the WTM board. ;)

 

But if you WANT to follow WTM 4 year cycles, I don't see why you can't, unless maybe you plan to graduate early, in which case you wouldn't get 3 4-year cycles in. My son is accelerated in most subjects, but we're still doing history at the 4-year cycle pace. We'll jump back into the science cycle next year with chemistry (this year we're off-cycle, doing a general science textbook one grade level higher). In middle school, if we need to do a high school level science course, that's fine. I can't say whether we'll need it or not yet (we're in 2nd grade - I'm not planning that far ahead, except looking at math options :D). But overall, I'm pretty much following the WTM as a general guideline.

[Runningmom80]

Okay, history was probably a bad example.

 

 

I am just trying to prepare myself for the possibility of him zooming through these first few elementary years.

 

 

I know I really can't plan anything per se, I guess I'm just thinking of possible scenarios.

 

 

Thanks for the replies everyone!

[onaclairadeluna]

I'm trying to figure out how I'll stay on the path of a classical education with an accelerated learner.

 

I didn't stay on the path with my son. I suspect I will with my daughter (also accelerated and also 2e but just different than DS).

 

At the time it was way too hard to figure out where DS was. He never seemed to be in the Grammar Stage. He was all over the map and I couldn't tease out the different skills involved in Grammar stage. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say and I think I see now some of the things that I missed (and am playing catch up on now).

 

I started easing back into WTMish learning last year. He seemed almost ready for rhetoric but was missing a few skills. My son is 2e, but I think accelerated kids can be all over the map 2e or no. My daughter is on the map though so classically schooling her during the elementary years is WAY easier.

 

It would be great to have a checklist of skills for each stage so you could just scan them and see what you actually need to teach. Many of the Grammar stage skills my son had mastered without me having to teach him. Other skills were almost impossible for him at the time.

 

Now that he is a bit older what was impossible is now possible and he is playing catch up with a few things (most notably writing). It hasn't hurt him a great deal but if I had it to do over again, I'd be a little more on top of writing.

 

I don't think I would have needed to change anything about other subjects. He was very much able to fly on his own with them.

 

Runningmom, it is hard to plan. Things change every year. Hang on to your hat.

[zaichiki]

I keep the chronological order of the history, but I might use more challenging materials than the ones suggested in WTM (or I might use some of the resources used for the same time period from in the next stage).

 

I choose the science topic by interest. I don't follow the chronological history or SWB's order there. Ex: ds wanted to study biology this last year, so we did. Next is physics. Same reason. The year after that I'm choosing: chemistry. We also run studies concurrently. Ds is a big fan of paleontology, so he was studying that too.

 

We do a lot of rabbit trails.

 

I don't follow SWB's suggestions for grammar/writing/spelling because they just don't fit my kids, though we have always done copywork, dictation, and narration.

[Karenciavo]

I use TOG and my ds9 does mostly dialectic level work for history and literature. Outlining history, making connections (cause and effect), writing essays (on computer since he has fine motor delays and writing by hand would frustrate him for this type of assignment), literary analysis.

[SnegurochkaL]

I keep the chronological order of the history, but I might use more challenging materials than the ones suggested in WTM (or I might use some of the resources used for the same time period from in the next stage).

 

I choose the science topic by interest. I don't follow the chronological history or SWB's order there. Ex: ds wanted to study biology this last year, so we did. Next is physics. Same reason. The year after that I'm choosing: chemistry. We also run studies concurrently. Ds is a big fan of paleontology, so he was studying that too.

 

:iagree:

We try to give a classical flavor to our studies.

We keep chronological order of the history too. We still park in Ancient World. My kids are big fans of Ancient Egypt (my son loves mummies), so we are continue with this for some time. We use a mix of SOTW, MOH and few other on-line thematic units for History. For ours science we choose Zoology for spring/fall/summer and will be doing physics/chemistry during winter (RealScience4Kids). I beef it up with additional studies of particular topics they have a lot of interest in. My son also wants to mummify a chick:( , as a part of his biology/chemistry/history project and present it at science fair next year.

 

Each child is different, so what work for one, might not be suitable for another. I think, SWB gives a suggestion and you decide what to add/change in accordance with your children needs.

It is more important to follow your child's desire to learn a particular topic he/she is interested in. This will keep them going.:001_smile:

[Embassy]

For history we just go slower and deeper. We probably will hit all periods of history once before my kids are high school age.

[EKS]

I see WTM as a philosophy rather than a rule book. Some specific things we do or have done: chronological history with period literature, Latin, systematic grammar and writing instruction, an emphasis on content.

 

But, especially with my younger son, I need to be careful about too much repetition. For example, I have decided not to do middle school life science and we will be doing an in depth study of environmental science instead. This is because I think that the high school biology he will be learning in a few years will be too similar and I'd prefer him to learn biology at the high school level (since I have to choose one!).

[Ester Maria]

Skill-based subjects are typically accelerated "vertically" - the child continues to climb the ladder and they normally proceed, only at a quicker pace. Even some of the skill-based subjects can be enriched "horizontally" - in keeping the child on effectively the same *level* / *content*, but broadening the experience by giving more challenging materials - but for the most part, you are bound to more "vertically". So, mathematics, music, reading, spelling, are all accelerated the best, in our experience, by proceeding the typical sequence. You will probably find that your child is all over the place - reading at a fifth grade level, doing third grade math, and so forth. This is *normal* even for average children who are homeschooled due to the individualization of education, let alone for gifted ones - it is only that the differences will be more stark.

 

Content-based subjects, on the other hand, are typically accelerated "horizontally" - instead of proceeding, say, with SOTW and moving along, you stay thematically / period-wise within the zone, but enrich your study with additional, more complex readings, adding rhetoric level materials in the logic stage history, using foreign languages to study in them other materials (this works great for correlating skills and working across subjects), writing more, doing additional projects, allowing students to pick their own focus of study and relate it to other areas, etc.

 

There are grey areas, of course: for example, sciences begin as a content, but rapidly progress towards skill later. If you have a child drastically accelerated in mathematics, by the time they hit physics (if you follow a typical science progression), they may do it calculus-based right away rather than algebra-based, thus modifying their content to the accelerated level of skill (mathematical) they have. In any case you will find yourself having to combine many such things.

 

I typically have a "business first" rule with my children - thereis a certain level / coverage they have to do of things to satisfy my general education requirements, but I leave them alone as soon as that is done, or if I see that it is well spread out and they are staying on the track. That way we compensate for their need to follow their own rabbit trails and interests, but while not compromising our standards as to what must be done.

 

A general advice I give is to invest into skills in the early years, because it pays off multiple times later. Better skills from the early years directly translate to more educational freedom later. For example, if the child is done with Latin grammar and syntax by high school, rather than messing around with beginner programs for years, most of the high school Latin studies are free and can be arranged in multiple ways to still cover the periodization of literature with most important works and passages. If a child is done with Latin grammar by the end of tenth grade, that is certainly laudable, but for the remaining two years there is so much "general stuff" that are landmarks that have to be squeezed in that they may lose out on the freedom to do their own thing. Dealing with some obscure plays is interesting - but one cannot do it at the expense of Cicero and Virgil, you know? There is a basic program. If they want to earn the freedom to deal with the extras, they have to be more efficient than a typical program - or just take that interest to their free time. We apply the same principle to nearly all subjects: we simply do not discuss "extras" if the "basics" of the framework are not covered or are not being covered by the regular schedule.

[Sahamamama]

No truly experienced advice here, Amber, but I had to comment on your signature line. :001_smile: I noticed the 1 child + 2 children and the Willy-Nillies you have for your twins. :lol: I am laughing, because about two years ago, I was where you are now. :D I had a bright four year old (nearly five) who had started Kindergarten at home. We also had three year old twins. :willy_nilly::willy_nilly: I had those SAME Willy-Nilly guys in my signature then. LOL. It gets easier when they turn three, I promise you. ;)

 

As for the "staying on the classical/WTM path" question, I wouldn't worry about strictly conforming. We can homeschool in order to optimize the learning for our children, not to follow a book. HTH.

[Rivka]

The big place I see us needing to depart from the WTM model is the idea that in grades 1-4, children should be focused on concrete learning, memorization, and exposure to facts. My 6yo is already ready for a lot of abstraction and higher-level thinking skills, and is making connections across the curriculum.

 

I'm prepared for the idea that we will still see a qualitative shift towards logic stage skills in a few years, but, although she is held back somewhat by the things she doesn't know about the world, in general the lists of what grammar-stage children are supposed to be unable to do don't seem to be relevant to my advanced learner.

[Runningmom80]

The big place I see us needing to depart from the WTM model is the idea that in grades 1-4, children should be focused on concrete learning, memorization, and exposure to facts. My 6yo is already ready for a lot of abstraction and higher-level thinking skills, and is making connections across the curriculum.

 

I'm prepared for the idea that we will still see a qualitative shift towards logic stage skills in a few years, but, although she is held back somewNhat by the things she doesn't know about the world, in general the lists of what grammar-stage children are supposed to be unable to do don't seem to be relevant to my advanced learner.

 

I think this is where we are too. I couldn't articulate it very well, but you explained it perfectly.

 

 

So, I won't get my WTM card revoked for jumping around the stages? :lol:

[Runningmom80]

No truly experienced advice here, Amber, but I had to comment on your signature line. :001_smile: I noticed the 1 child + 2 children and the Willy-Nillies you have for your twins. :lol: I am laughing, because about two years ago, I was where you are now. :D I had a bright four year old (nearly five) who had started Kindergarten at home. We also had three year old twins. :willy_nilly::willy_nilly: I had those SAME Willy-Nilly guys in my signature then. LOL. It gets easier when they turn three, I promise you. ;)

 

As for the "staying on the classical/WTM path" question, I wouldn't worry about strictly conforming. We can homeschool in order to optimize the learning for our children, not to follow a book. HTH.

 

 

 

I appreciate the encouragement! I love hearing from other moms of twins. :D Everyone says the same thing, that 3 is the magical age where it gets easier. I'm still not sure how I'm going to do it all, homeschool, take care of 3 kids, and run a business. I'm already crazy, so at least I don't have to worry about that! :lol:

[Runningmom80]

Skill-based subjects are typically accelerated "vertically" - the child continues to climb the ladder and they normally proceed, only at a quicker pace. Even some of the skill-based subjects can be enriched "horizontally" - in keeping the child on effectively the same *level* / *content*, but broadening the experience by giving more challenging materials - but for the most part, you are bound to more "vertically". So, mathematics, music, reading, spelling, are all accelerated the best, in our experience, by proceeding the typical sequence. You will probably find that your child is all over the place - reading at a fifth grade level, doing third grade math, and so forth. This is *normal* even for average children who are homeschooled due to the individualization of education, let alone for gifted ones - it is only that the differences will be more stark.

 

Content-based subjects, on the other hand, are typically accelerated "horizontally" - instead of proceeding, say, with SOTW and moving along, you stay thematically / period-wise within the zone, but enrich your study with additional, more complex readings, adding rhetoric level materials in the logic stage history, using foreign languages to study in them other materials (this works great for correlating skills and working across subjects), writing more, doing additional projects, allowing students to pick their own focus of study and relate it to other areas, etc.

 

There are grey areas, of course: for example, sciences begin as a content, but rapidly progress towards skill later. If you have a child drastically accelerated in mathematics, by the time they hit physics (if you follow a typical science progression), they may do it calculus-based right away rather than algebra-based, thus modifying their content to the accelerated level of skill (mathematical) they have. In any case you will find yourself having to combine many such things.

 

I typically have a "business first" rule with my children - thereis a certain level / coverage they have to do of things to satisfy my general education requirements, but I leave them alone as soon as that is done, or if I see that it is well spread out and they are staying on the track. That way we compensate for their need to follow their own rabbit trails and interests, but while not compromising our standards as to what must be done.

 

A general advice I give is to invest into skills in the early years, because it pays off multiple times later. Better skills from the early years directly translate to more educational freedom later. For example, if the child is done with Latin grammar and syntax by high school, rather than messing around with beginner programs for years, most of the high school Latin studies are free and can be arranged in multiple ways to still cover the periodization of literature with most important works and passages. If a child is done with Latin grammar by the end of tenth grade, that is certainly laudable, but for the remaining two years there is so much "general stuff" that are landmarks that have to be squeezed in that they may lose out on the freedom to do their own thing. Dealing with some obscure plays is interesting - but one cannot do it at the expense of Cicero and Virgil, you know? There is a basic program. If they want to earn the freedom to deal with the extras, they have to be more efficient than a typical program - or just take that interest to their free time. We apply the same principle to nearly all subjects: we simply do not discuss "extras" if the "basics" of the framework are not covered or are not being covered by the regular schedule.

 

 

This was extremely helpful! Thanks for the advice!

 

 

Thank you everyone for your replies, I appreciate it!

[poetic license]

The big place I see us needing to depart from the WTM model is the idea that in grades 1-4, children should be focused on concrete learning, memorization, and exposure to facts. My 6yo is already ready for a lot of abstraction and higher-level thinking skills, and is making connections across the curriculum.

 

I'm prepared for the idea that we will still see a qualitative shift towards logic stage skills in a few years, but, although she is held back somewhat by the things she doesn't know about the world, in general the lists of what grammar-stage children are supposed to be unable to do don't seem to be relevant to my advanced learner.

 

This bit (bold) sums it up so well.

 

I didn't "get" that bit in the WTM about focusing on memorization and not getting into abstract thinking, because I didn't at the time realize that my son was different than other kids. Now I take those parts of the WTM with a huge grain of salt. We feel free to get into abstractions and the "whys" of things.

 

Also when WTM talks about parts to whole vs whole to parts, that also becomes irrelevant for many gifted learners. A lot of the time they are able to construct the parts on their own from the whole and a strict parts-to-whole approach ends up being redundant for them.

 

I'm in a similar place as you, RunningMom, I've got a 4 year old DS (and a 2 year old but only 1!) and I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole HS/Classical Ed thing AND figure out what's the deal with his giftedness/advancement as well. We should chat sometime! :D

[Runningmom80]

This bit (bold) sums it up so well.

 

I didn't "get" that bit in the WTM about focusing on memorization and not getting into abstract thinking, because I didn't at the time realize that my son was different than other kids. Now I take those parts of the WTM with a huge grain of salt. We feel free to get into abstractions and the "whys" of things.

 

Also when WTM talks about parts to whole vs whole to parts, that also becomes irrelevant for many gifted learners. A lot of the time they are able to construct the parts on their own from the whole and a strict parts-to-whole approach ends up being redundant for them.

 

I'm in a similar place as you, RunningMom, I've got a 4 year old DS (and a 2 year old but only 1!) and I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole HS/Classical Ed thing AND figure out what's the deal with his giftedness/advancement as well. We should chat sometime! :D

 

 

Yes, definitely! Are you/Will you be doing K this year?

[poetic license]

Yes, definitely! Are you/Will you be doing K this year?

 

Yep! DS will spend a few hrs in the morning at a private KG for play purposes then we'll HS after that. We've picked similar stuff--SM 1 A/B, Miquon Orange/Red, MEP, RS B (yep, definite math interest), BFSU, and not sure what else if at all. We'll start with Math only, then work in LA, BFSU, and maybe SOTW later in the year.

[PeterPan]

Well if I could offer one sage tidbit, it would be to make sure you're putting some of your reserve energy at this stage into your OWN learning and interests. Pick whatever you think you might want to do with him in 7th and start learning now. If your weak point is math or history or whatever, start on that now.

 

With your oldest you have a bit of free time that you don't even realize, compared to where you'll be down the road. If you don't end up using later the things you use with the study, well then it was just a good example and creating a learning environment and helped you keep your own life balance.

 

Just my two cents.