Pre Algebra or directly to Algebra I?

[orangearrow]

I'm expecting dd#1 (she's near the end of 4th grade) to go through the TT Math 7 at a fairly rapid pace. I see a lot of mention of Pre-Algebra here (I'm reading through a lot of past math threads, lol). I didn't take Pre-Algebra when I was in school, and planned to send dd straight to Algebra I when she finishes TT7. Now, I'm wondering.... :001_unsure:

[cbollin]

I might be in the minority opinion on this....

 

Given her age, find a way to hold off starting in Algebra. The work load gets longer and the pressure to keep up gets frustrating. That might mean to slow down with TT 7 or finding other ways. Maybe instead of continuing in more math, perhaps adding in a class in computer programming that is geared for her age group???? How about considering using some Singapore challenging word problems or something like that? How about life skills or finding ways to let her do service projects that help to instill your family's faith values?

 

My dh was a super accelerated math kid. Started Alg early by most sequences. In 12th grade he was taking college level math courses (differential equations, college sophomore level class). So, you can wait a while and still be on accelerated path :) Think end point with your math sequence as well as what to do next year.

 

-crystal

[8filltheheart]

I'm expecting dd#1 (she's near the end of 4th grade) to go through the TT Math 7 at a fairly rapid pace. I see a lot of mention of Pre-Algebra here (I'm reading through a lot of past math threads, lol). I didn't take Pre-Algebra when I was in school, and planned to send dd straight to Algebra I when she finishes TT7. Now, I'm wondering.... :001_unsure:

 

I would consider a few different things as you make your decision.

 

First, alg requires a leap into abstract thinking. Is your child able to make the leap from the concrete to the abstract?

 

Second, typical alg textbooks contain huge amounts of info on a page. My oldest is extremely math oriented, however I didn't put him in alg the first yr I thought he was ready mathematically b/c mentally he wasn't mature enough to cope with high school text presentation......seems silly, but it would have impacted his confidence in math when the reality would have been it was simply maturity.

 

Third, what are you ultimate goals in advancing through math rapidly? Where are they going in this straight dash forward? Can they be better served by slowing down and delving deeper into application of concepts and stretching their understanding of lower concepts before advancing to higher?

 

All that said, I have never used a typical pre-alg program with my kids. THey have used MUS's alg/geo combo book as pre-alg/pre-geo b/c the book presents those topics very concretely. The topics in MUS are very simplified and don't require abstract thinking. THe books are very plain and don't have overwhelming amounts of info. (Which is why I went that route with my oldest.....like I posted above) However, the flip side is that while I could have said.....alg and geo finished in 5th grade with one, 7th grade with all my others.......and raced forward to alg 2, we didn't. There are programs that delve deeper, require better understanding, force more relationship between the "math" and the concepts, etc.

 

Alg is the foundation for all higher math. It is better to do it right than to race forward.

 

Just my $10 worth. :)

[Janis in DE]

My daughter just finished 5th grade and Saxon 76. She will be moving into Video Text next year. I plan to take 3 years to complete this program which is typically a two year progam. When completed it is considered pre-algebra, algebra I and algebra II. Since I have decided to go at a slow pace I am also adding in Life of Fred Algebra. I plan to do about 1/2 of this book and 1/3 of Video text this year. I am considering bumping my daughter up a year since she has a February birthday and works ahead in all subjects. This year she will be doing 7th grade work and has to prove to me she is ready to be bumped up.

Janis in DE

[bettyandbob]

I plan to go right into Videotext. We will also do Life of Fred, which she loves. I will slow her pace if necessary. She is my second math accelerated kid (ds is taking alg 2/trig this year in 8th grade). I don't think you have to hold off. you just need to pay attention to your child's progress and slow the pace if necessary.

[Hoggirl]

who is also accelerated in math, we used Chalkdust Pre-Algebra in 4th and just finished Chalkdust Algebra in 5th.

 

I would think it might depend on the program you are going to use. Are you going to stay with TT or switch to something else. I thought that Chalkdust Pre-Algebra was really solid and ds learned a lot. But, I don't know anything about TT as we haven't used it.

[vmsurbat]

to leap from TT7 to an algebra program because the scope and sequence of TT7 is slower than *many* other publishers. (Disclaimer: I think TT is a valuable addition to the homeschool market just because it is "slower.") It *might* be possible to continue with TT's algebra program because it is also slower in its introduction of content (as well as depth).

 

And I completely agree with others that you need to think through the purpose of the acceleration in math. If your daughter is a true math lover, I would bring in enrichment before I would accelerate even more. If she is not a math lover, why the rush? I speak from experience with my oldest--I had her in Algebra early because she *could* be, but the reality of the experience is that she took 2 1/2 years to complete algebra because while very bright, she wasn't mature enough yet to tackle it. I've not made that mistake again!

 

You might find it helpful to look at the placement tests for Saxon, Math-U-See, and TT and see how she does with those.... Or look at a sample page from BJU math tests. (I mention these because they are all readily available online--there might be others). That would give you an objective measurement to see how your daughter is truly performing mathematically.

 

HTH,

[Kimber]

I would just suggest that you plan out your child's course according to what she can do, not what she should or might be able to do.

 

Clear as mud right. It doesn't matter if she's young when she starts algebra. The goal isn't acceleration. But it doesn't matter if she starts early, the goal isn't to be the same as everyone else.

 

I think pre-algebra is good simply because it ensures that the children can remember all of the math they've learned so far, and it provides a bridge to the abstract algebra. It gives them confidence and helps them to be secure. My dd10 will be doing pre-algebra next year. I don't want her first experience with algebra to be overwhelming, scary, or discouraging. But my dd is somewhat lazy in wanting to work. She tends to ask for help at the first sign of confusion. Our new rule is don't come to me until you've tried to work the problem 5 times. Also my child makes lots of silly mistakes because her handwriting isn't so neat. Just this year she's stopped writing her numbers backwards and can keep all of her number lined up. These are important skills that she has to have before she can jump to algebra. They seem silly, but if no one can follow her work or she's skipping steps on paper, then my child isn't ready for algebra.

 

So far my child has worked in various math programs--mostly masterly approaches. But the last book she used was Horizons 5 which is spiral. It helped her to solidify her math. She went through half of Horizons 4 and pretty much all of 5 before she asked not to do them anymore. So we went to Life of Fred Fractions which she is completing in about 2 months. We'll do decimals over the summer and then another pre-algebra program before we go through algebra one.

 

I also suggest that you hang out on the high school board. Those folks know their math and some of them have different goals. They have influenced me greatly.

 

On the high school board I learned about "math". The fact that most modern American curriculum teaches math as a tool to be used by engineers with the goal being calculus and differential equations. That the typical math trek doesn't easily lead itself into mathematics as a major. Well, I want to give my dc options. And if they like math, the way I did, I don't want they shoved into engineering, the way I was. I want them to have more choices.

 

So our plan is to use Dolciani math books from the 60's. They have proofs and teach algebra requiring that students understand what they're doing and why they can do it.

 

But while Dolciani is great for understanding and being able to discuss mathematical concepts abstractly, from my quick look through the text, LoF does a better job of teaching math in context of real life. She will read through Fred after she covers the concepts in Dolciani.

[JFSinIL]

My 5th grader has been doing TT6 this year - always above 90%, so maybe I should have used TT7 this year. Hindsight - anyway, I am planning to skip TT7 and use TT preagebra next year - now you have me thinking that maybe I should just dig Videotext out of the basement and start that!

[orangearrow]

Thank you for the great food for thought!! :) It's fantastic to get other points of view. :)

 

My dd is a math lover. Well, her favorite subject is science... she says she doesn't "love" Math, but she doesn't mind it and is very quick at learning new concepts.

 

But, I'll definitely think on the "why" a little more. My only "why" at this point, is just that she will naturally (without any nudging from me) move through the Math 7 at a somewhat rapid pace (unless she really surprises me, which could happen). I took AP classes in jr high and high school and they didn't even present Pre-Algebra to me as an option. So, I've just assumed all these years that Pre-Algebra was a sort of "remedial" algebra. Obviously, I need to look into this more. :D My school years were spent just moving at the fastest pace possible, always moving to the "next thing" as quickly as possible. (not in a too-fast way - just in a ... why not? kind of way. lol)

 

I'm thinking... maybe I'll slow her pace on Math 7 simply by finding a math book or program with a ton of story or real-life problems for her to work on in between TT lessons (instead of just moving to the next TT lesson). That should help reinforce the real-life math concepts even more.

 

Oh - and we're already taking time off "regular Math" to work on those times tables. :glare: She gets math "concepts" exceedingly fast, but still has to stop and think on the times tables. lol So, we're working (along with her 2nd grade sister) to reinforce those times tables so they don't have to sit-and-think at each problem. lol

[Brindee]

orangearrow, your dd sounds like mine--gets the concepts right away, but goes slow because she needs work with getting multiplication to a faster recall point! She did better this school year; last year we crawled because of going over and over the multiplication until she had it down better.

 

Last year my dd (4th grade) did Saxon 76. By about 1/4 of the way through she started disliking it and slowing down--not because she didn't understand it, she just didn't like it. So we did the work with mult. and got 1/2 way through the book.

 

This year (grade 5) we switched to TT. She tested into Pre Algebra and it was a good fit. She really liked it and did well. She recently finished it (wondering if your dd would do well with the Pre Algebra??).

 

She doesn't want to do Algebra 1 yet, and at this age, she certainly doesn't have to! Right now whe's working in Singapore 5B and doing the chapter tests in R&S Math 7 to see where to start. We'll do some of the concepts in the math 7, then head right into R&S Math 8 when she's ready. So that's what she'll do next year in 6th. Then the next year, 7th grade, we'll continue Math 8 and/or head into Algebra 1, depending on where she's at.

 

Another reason we're just allowing her this time to expand her knowledge is that she pressures herself too much. She pushes herself to do well, and gets frustrated when she doesn't. So this will give her time to really get the concepts down, and hopefully help her feel more confident when she does move on!

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Have you posted this question on the Accelerated Learners board? You might get even more perspectives, as well as more ideas for "going deep" rather than "going fast" over there. Just an idea.

[Bells]

So our plan is to use Dolciani math books from the 60's. They have proofs and teach algebra requiring that students understand what they're doing and why they can do it.

 

But while Dolciani is great for understanding and being able to discuss mathematical concepts abstractly, from my quick look through the text, LoF does a better job of teaching math in context of real life. She will read through Fred after she covers the concepts in Dolciani.

 

Our plan is similar. My 10 yo dd is currently doing Singapore NEM 1. When she gets to the geometry section, we're going to flip over to Dolciani (1962 - my husband's jr. high text), Structure and Method Book 1. Following that, I'm planning for her to finish NEM 1 and begin NEM 2. At some point in NEM 2, we'll flip back to Dolciani for Geometry and/or Algebra 2.

 

Good luck. There are many roads to Rome.

 

Bells

[EKS]

My son started algebra in 5th grade. If I had it to do over again I would have had him do a solid prealgebra program that year and started algebra in 6th. He didn't have trouble with abstract thinking in 5th, but he did have problems with needing to write out his work neatly and with a workload designed for 8th and 9th graders.

[hmschooling]

You can visit the TT site and see the FAQ's. They answer the question about deciding if your child is ready for pre-alg/alg 1, etc. :001_smile: