Should obese kids be taken away from their parents?

[Perry]

Cute.

Well, usually when someone makes some sort of an outrageous claim, they're expected to back it up with some evidence.

 

I see a few -a very few- people supporting removing kids in extreme cases, like when their life is in jeopardy. No one here, or anywhere that I have seen, has EVER suggested taking children away because they consider their children's weight outside the norm.

[Joker]

Again, no one said to make a major move. And, moving in with relatives is substantially cheaper than what you describe.

 

What if their relatives live in the same neighborhood?

[cdrumm4448]

What if their relatives live in the same neighborhood?

 

Common sense would tell you they should pick another relative.

[cdrumm4448]

Well, usually when someone makes some sort of an outrageous claim, they're expected to back it up with some evidence.

 

I see a few -a very few- people supporting removing kids in extreme cases, like when their life is in jeopardy. No one here, or anywhere that I have seen, has EVER suggested taking children away because they consider their children's weight outside the norm.

 

A 400 lb teenager is outside the norm. My statement stands.

 

It's unfortunate a real discussion cannot be held.

[Perry]

A 400 lb teenager is outside the norm. My statement stands.

 

It's unfortunate a real discussion cannot be held.

According to CDC growth charts, a 14 year old boy who weighs 150 pounds would be "out of the norm". According to your argument, people would find it acceptable to remove him from his parents. That's clearly ridiculous.

[Harriet Vane]

Common sense would tell you they should pick another relative.

 

I have to say that I find your comments about moving to be unrealistic and harsh.

 

What if one's relatives are not willing to take in their poorer relations?

 

What about the money it takes to move anywhere? It does cost money even to move across town.

 

The more resources a place has, the more expensive it is to live there--what about the money to pay a higher rent for less space?

 

The difficulty of finding a job?

 

It's not an easy thing to move, and it's much, much harder without money or education.

 

I would suggest that you withhold judgment until you have walked a mile in the shoes of one trapped by poverty.

[Parrothead]

Again, no one said to make a major move. And, moving in with relatives is substantially cheaper than what you describe.

Well then you should specify that you mean people stuck in the inner city should move in with relatives to solve their problems of having access to a supermarket.

 

Hopefully these relatives do not live in the same inner city area, have plenty of room for an entire extra family (or two since you never know how many inner city relatives will come knocking on the suburban relatives' door) and like and get along with all family members.

[Parrothead]

I have to say that I find your comments about moving to be unrealistic and harsh.

 

What if one's relatives are not willing to take in their poorer relations?

 

What about the money it takes to move anywhere? It does cost money even to move across town.

 

The more resources a place has, the more expensive it is to live there--what about the money to pay a higher rent for less space?

 

The difficulty of finding a job?

 

It's not an easy thing to move, and it's much, much harder without money or education.

 

I would suggest that you withhold judgment until you have walked a mile in the shoes of one trapped by poverty.

:iagree: cdrumm, you really seem to be talking out of your hat and don't have a clue as to what it means to be from (live in) an inner city area. Many many of these people are there because there simply is not place else to go. Do you really think anyone who lives in that environment is there for the sheer joy of it? Of course, they would get out if there were means to do so. But the fact is it is not as easy as moving out of the area or moving in with relatives.

[Joker]

There have been times when I've felt I was at my lowest and could sink no further. Then I would meet someone who had been living a life I felt was "lower" their whole lives. I know I have been fortunate even during the times I felt I was sacrificing so much because I know there was always someone sacrificing more. Maybe some have forgotten there are people whose normal is what others consider rock bottom. I don't understand the idea that those in all inner cities can just move on. If it was that easy most would have already left.

[YLVD]

I'm sorry but, are you kidding me with this?/QUOTE]

 

Nope.

 

ETA: My grandmother was dirt poor. Paper dresses, cardboard shoes, one chicken a week for 8 people. She spent her childhood with a dirt pile for a playground and toys. She (like the rest of my grandparents) didn't get past 8th grade. She got a job in a factory making slave wages. She worked her entire life, paid off two houses in 7 years each (on the same factory salary - piecework), got pregnant (unmarried) at 16, got married at 18, had another child, and raised them in the city. She ended up with much more than she had growing up by working for it. This knowledge colors my ideas about the world. She pulled herself out of abject poverty and worked to give them a better life.

 

I have a grandma with a similar story. I worked my tail off when I became a single mother to an infant, got my university degree while working and being a single parent. I never got any assistance or even child support.

 

But you know, not everyone can do that. If the world were that simple, everyone would be doing well.

[YLVD]

There have been times when I've felt I was at my lowest and could sink no further. Then I would meet someone who had been living a life I felt was "lower" their whole lives. I know I have been fortunate even during the times I felt I was sacrificing so much because I know there was always someone sacrificing more. Maybe some have forgotten there are people whose normal is what others consider rock bottom. I don't understand the idea that those in all inner cities can just move on. If it was that easy most would have already left.

 

:iagree:

 

Absolutely

 

It is honestly truly and utterly ridiculous for anyone to think that or say it. People don't want to live in areas with drive by shootings outside of their residences!!!

 

I'm a bit shocked at this thread. I think that it would be good for people to get out and see those type of areas.

[YLVD]

Common sense would tell you they should pick another relative.

 

And..what if there are no more relatives??? What is no relatives will take them in? I'm starting to wonder if you're serious here as I've never seen such thinking, ever.

Edited July 17, 2011 by YLVD

[YLVD]

No one said to move across the state. I have to ask what you spent $7,000 on.

 

Around here, every place wants first, last and deposit. The last time I moved,which was one mile away, I paid almost $4000 just in those fees! The deposit equals the rent. I moved everything by myself, that was just for the deposits! I got a good deal on rent, for this area which is ridiculously expensive, so I took this place. I couldn't find anything that was cheaper that had reasonable rent.

 

That is the norm here. If I had hired people, which I should have as I ended up hurting myself pretty badly doing most of it myself, who knows how much it would be!

 

Those costs are not the norm everywhere. But, the inner city area that I grew up in is in Southern California. That area is rough and still nowhere near cheap.

Edited July 17, 2011 by YLVD

[Laura Corin]

Around here, every place wants first, last and deposit. The last time I moved,which was one mile away, I paid almost $4000 just in those fees! The deposit equals the rent. I moved everything by myself, that was just for the deposits! I got a good deal on rent, for this area which is ridiculously expensive, so I took this place. I couldn't find anything that was cheaper that had reasonable rent.

 

 

She talks about the rent-trap, and how some poor people end up living in motels because they do not have money for a deposit on an apartment. Once they are in the motel it's expensive, so they are never able to save up the deposit.... The book really opened my eyes to how people get caught in poverty; she talks about employment as well as housing.

 

Laura

[Pamela H in Texas]

At one point, we lived in a motel. It was a motel where almost everyone who stayed there actually lived there. Tons of kids around. Almost everyone worked and paid rent at the motel weekly. Then didn't have enough money to ever get out. We finally went to stay with a family member for a few months. That still sucked some money, but it allowed us enough relief we could get on our feet. We got a house and all was fine.

 

They tore done the motel recently. We pass it often and it really bugged me that it was torn down even though it's been empty for years now. I guess I just think of all those families who had to find somewhere else when they couldn't afford to do so :(

 

ETA: Btw, and should we talk about healthy eating when living in a hotel? We had to hide our electric skillet so when inspections were done, we didn't get kicked out (the fire marshall would ding the management and then the mgr would kick those people out). Obviously a crockpot wouldn't have worked. We had a mini-fridge so how much food does that hold?

Edited July 17, 2011 by 2J5M9K

[WishboneDawn]

nm

Edited July 17, 2011 by WishboneDawn
Snarky

[WishboneDawn]

And..what if there are no more relatives??? What is no relatives will take them in? I'm starting to wonder if you're serious here as I've never seen such thinking, ever.

 

You've never watched the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air?? That series showed a very clear and easy way out of inner city life. Sheesh.

[WishboneDawn]

According to CDC growth charts, a 14 year old boy who weighs 150 pounds would be "out of the norm". According to your argument, people would find it acceptable to remove him from his parents. That's clearly ridiculous.

 

Yup, I haven't seen any statements like that here. It seems like a disconnect anyway as the people the other poster is responding too are generally talking about inner city problems with accessing good food, not about the state removing children.

[beaners]

I spent several years working with foster kids and bio families in inner city Philadelphia. North Philly, one of the worst of the worst neighborhoods.

 

I agree that there are not enough/any grocery stores in these neighborhoods.

 

But ... in my experience, someone always had a car. There are large, extended families and tight networks of friends. Someone always has a car, and people can generally get where they want to go. (Now getting where they need to go is a different story ... sometimes there is not the same amount of effort put into getting to a place they need, versus want, to go.) I honestly never saw a bio or kinship family that was lacking for groceries. Some of them ate very well; some ate tons of junk. But getting to the grocery was generally not a problem.

 

I'm not insinuating that it's just poor people who eat crap or that all poor people eat crap. Lots of middle-class and rich people eat crap too. And there need to be better grocery options in inner cities. But on a list of problems that the families I worked with face, access to grocery stores was not on the list.

 

Tara

 

My experience living in Memphis was very similar. I have lived in a weekly rate hotel. I had no transportation. I knew very few people in the city when I arrived. Later on I was able to get a waitressing job and I got to know some of my coworkers and their families. Someone always had a car. Even the cousins who didn't work and bounced around from house to house could have gone and did go to the grocery store.

[cdrumm4448]

I have to say that I find your comments about moving to be unrealistic and harsh.

 

What if one's relatives are not willing to take in their poorer relations?

 

What about the money it takes to move anywhere? It does cost money even to move across town.

 

The more resources a place has, the more expensive it is to live there--what about the money to pay a higher rent for less space?

 

The difficulty of finding a job?

 

It's not an easy thing to move, and it's much, much harder without money or education.

 

I would suggest that you withhold judgment until you have walked a mile in the shoes of one trapped by poverty.

 

I am a decendant of one that was trapped in poverty. That's actually what she did: move in with relatives until she could get on her feet. And this was during a time in history when having children while unmarried was socially unacceptable. No welfare, nowhere to go.

 

So, I do not need to be trapped in poverty to have an opinion. And, I'm eternally grateful my grandmother did the things she did to pull herself out of that poverty. It proves a person CAN do it.

 

Aside, I would like to know if there are any studies that determine how many people who received RELIEF during the Great Depression continued to receive some form of assistance throughout their lives. My grandmother never did.

[cdrumm4448]

 

I have a grandma with a similar story. I worked my tail off when I became a single mother to an infant, got my university degree while working and being a single parent. I never got any assistance or even child support.

 

But you know, not everyone can do that. If the world were that simple, everyone would be doing well.

 

I never said everyone could do it. The assumption that no one can do it is what I disagree with. I assume people CAN. Others seem to assume people CAN'T.

[Impish]

Well, usually when someone makes some sort of an outrageous claim, they're expected to back it up with some evidence.

 

I see a few -a very few- people supporting removing kids in extreme cases, like when their life is in jeopardy. No one here, or anywhere that I have seen, has EVER suggested taking children away because they consider their children's weight outside the norm.

:iagree:I support something being done, and consider a parent who deliberately neglects a child's medical needs to be someone that deserves investigation.

You've never watched the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air?? That series showed a very clear and easy way out of inner city life. Sheesh.

*choking*

I am a decendant of one that was trapped in poverty. That's actually what she did: move in with relatives until she could get on her feet. And this was during a time in history when having children while unmarried was socially unacceptable. No welfare, nowhere to go.

 

So, I do not need to be trapped in poverty to have an opinion. And, I'm eternally grateful my grandmother did the things she did to pull herself out of that poverty. It proves a person CAN do it.

 

Aside, I would like to know if there are any studies that determine how many people who received RELIEF during the Great Depression continued to receive some form of assistance throughout their lives. My grandmother never did.

Just b/c your grandmother made her way through does not give you experience with extreme poverty, any more than reading a biography of Winston Churchill makes me a former PM.

 

Of course, experience isn't needed to have an opinion...if it was, nobody would ever discuss world events, politics, or anything else :lol:

 

Yes, I firmly believe that anyone can claw their way out of poverty. Mostly b/c I've done it. And there's nothing special or wonderful about *me* that gave me an edge over anyone else...I say that, but then realize that I have literacy skills that others may not, so yes, I did have an edge in that regard, but as far as personal qualities go, I'm not superior in any way, shape or form than anyone else that's a single parent, working 2-3 jobs, going to bed sick scared about keeping kids fed, clothed, and housed. Breaking down at the kitchen table trying to figure out how to keep the electricity on and still feed the kids.

[YLVD]

You've never watched the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air?? That series showed a very clear and easy way out of inner city life. Sheesh.

 

This actually made me LOL! :)

[YLVD]

I am a decendant of one that was trapped in poverty. That's actually what she did: move in with relatives until she could get on her feet. And this was during a time in history when having children while unmarried was socially unacceptable. No welfare, nowhere to go.

 

So, I do not need to be trapped in poverty to have an opinion. And, I'm eternally grateful my grandmother did the things she did to pull herself out of that poverty. It proves a person CAN do it.

 

Aside, I would like to know if there are any studies that determine how many people who received RELIEF during the Great Depression continued to receive some form of assistance throughout their lives. My grandmother never did.

 

Again, I understand.

 

I grew up as a white woman in an inner city area. I became a young single mom, pulled myself out of poverty and got a university degree. I'm sure that there are lots of people here that have done the same.

[Sputterduck]

You've never watched the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air?? That series showed a very clear and easy way out of inner city life. Sheesh.

 

Oh. My. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Joyofsixreboot]

Just want to bring up that being poor in a rural area isn't any easier than being poor in an urban one. It still leaves great distances to travel to a grocery store. I'm not poor now. I have been. And my childhood, though loving, was like living with the Clampetts pre-oil. Sometimes all you have to offer your kid to show them you love them is candy and junk. It's cheaper than Disney World.

[YLVD]

Just want to bring up that being poor in a rural area isn't any easier than being poor in an urban one. It still leaves great distances to travel to a grocery store. I'm not poor now. I have been. And my childhood, though loving, was like living with the Clampetts pre-oil. Sometimes all you have to offer your kid to show them you love them is candy and junk. It's cheaper than Disney World.

 

:iagree:

[Harriet Vane]

 

Just b/c your grandmother made her way through does not give you experience with extreme poverty, any more than reading a biography of Winston Churchill makes me a former PM.

 

Of course, experience isn't needed to have an opinion...if it was, nobody would ever discuss world events, politics, or anything else :lol:

 

Yes, I firmly believe that anyone can claw their way out of poverty. Mostly b/c I've done it. And there's nothing special or wonderful about *me* that gave me an edge over anyone else...I say that, but then realize that I have literacy skills that others may not, so yes, I did have an edge in that regard, but as far as personal qualities go, I'm not superior in any way, shape or form than anyone else that's a single parent, working 2-3 jobs, going to bed sick scared about keeping kids fed, clothed, and housed. Breaking down at the kitchen table trying to figure out how to keep the electricity on and still feed the kids.

 

Thanks for saying this Imp.

 

Yes, people can claw their way out of poverty. I did not have the easiest road myself. Though my situation was not as bad those that I know in the inner city, I know all about pulling up over years out of very hard circumstances.

 

I have spent 14 years living and volunteering with an inner city population, and two years prior to that volunteering in the Robert Taylor housing projects.

 

My bottom line: There are people who do not have options and who live in desperate circumstances. The immediate needs of safety and shelter often take precedence over other needs. Also there IS a real problem with access to better food choices, and even if there were access, there can be educational lack as well as cultural differences and race issues. The problems of the poor are multifaceted, and food/nutrition is only one piece of the picture.

[Harriet Vane]

Just want to bring up that being poor in a rural area isn't any easier than being poor in an urban one. It still leaves great distances to travel to a grocery store. I'm not poor now. I have been. And my childhood, though loving, was like living with the Clampetts pre-oil. Sometimes all you have to offer your kid to show them you love them is candy and junk. It's cheaper than Disney World.

 

Well said, and a very valid point.

 

I speak of the inner city simply because that is where my experience lies. I have never lived in a rural area. Thank you for offering your perspective, especially the highlighted.

[twoforjoy]

I'm going to bring up something else about the poor and eating choices: maybe they aren't stupid.

 

If you've got $5 to spend on food for the day, sure, we can say, "Well, any sensible person would buy apples! Or carrots! Or salad!" But, it's very unlikely that, with $5, you could buy enough of those items to actually meet your family's caloric needs for the day, and when we're talking survival, meeting basic caloric needs is more important than worry about fat content, artificial ingredients, or sugar intake. A person can live a very, very long time on an unhealthy diet that provides sufficient calories, especially since so many processed foods are fortified with various vitamins; a person cannot live a very long time with insufficient calories, no matter how healthy the foods they are eating may be.

 

Plus, there's food safety to think of. If you lack ways to safely store your food--if your fridge is on the fritz, if you share a fridge with many others in your household and can't store much in it--you probably are better off, health-wise and money-wise, buying things with a longer shelf life than things that are very perishable.

[Momof3littles]

I

If you've got $5 to spend on food for the day, sure, we can say, "Well, any sensible person would buy apples! Or carrots! Or salad!" But, it's very unlikely that, with $5, you could buy enough of those items to actually meet your family's caloric needs for the day, and when we're talking survival, meeting basic caloric needs is more important than worry about fat content, artificial ingredients, or sugar intake. A person can live a very, very long time on an unhealthy diet that provides sufficient calories, especially since so many processed foods are fortified with various vitamins; a person cannot live a very long time with insufficient calories, no matter how healthy the foods they are eating may be.

 

 

 

Yeah, when I looked at the McDonald's salads, several of the "premium" salads were hovering around 200 calories. For many people, that's just not going to provide enough calories for a major meal, particularly dinner. Some people can manage on that, but I'm a small-framed woman, and like I said...I would be hungry before too long after eating a 190 calorie salad. And I'm guessing those salads are not cheap.

[WishboneDawn]

I'm going to bring up something else about the poor and eating choices: maybe they aren't stupid.

 

If you've got $5 to spend on food for the day, sure, we can say, "Well, any sensible person would buy apples! Or carrots! Or salad!" But, it's very unlikely that, with $5, you could buy enough of those items to actually meet your family's caloric needs for the day, and when we're talking survival, meeting basic caloric needs is more important than worry about fat content, artificial ingredients, or sugar intake. A person can live a very, very long time on an unhealthy diet that provides sufficient calories, especially since so many processed foods are fortified with various vitamins; a person cannot live a very long time with insufficient calories, no matter how healthy the foods they are eating may be.

 

Plus, there's food safety to think of. If you lack ways to safely store your food--if your fridge is on the fritz, if you share a fridge with many others in your household and can't store much in it--you probably are better off, health-wise and money-wise, buying things with a longer shelf life than things that are very perishable.

 

Those are really good points. I hadn't thought about that.