Greenmama2 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Reading around this seems like it's pretty common but I was hoping those of you who have children like this could tell me more about them. Especially how they approached challenges in mathematics as they got older. Mine is a just turned 5 year old who is finishing up SM 1B and Miquon Orange. She's finished the local first grade syllabus on mathletics (online) so I switched her to the Singapore syllabus for that as I wanted to hold off moving to second for a while (there are more topics in the SP syllabus). Strangely Miquon seems to work really well for her even though she refuses to use the rods 9/10 times. *I* love Manipulatives keep acquiring more which she then shuns. Sigh, I guess I'm asking for advice on how I can learn to teach/help her without them... Thanks for reading if you got that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Does she not want to use them but can't figure it out without them? I'd slow down on buying more in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 My DD usually doesn't need manipulatives, so I let her do a problem or two with them, then talk me through a problem or two without them so I know she understands the process, and after that she's on her own. Singapore works well for her because it tends to wean off manipulatives quickly. I like manipulatives (I am certified math and music ed and did pull-out math lab for most of my career along with teaching music classes), and own a LOT of manipulatives, but for her, they don't have the same value as they did for many of my math lab kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmama2 Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Does she not want to use them but can't figure it out without them? I'd slow down on buying more in any case. No she doesn't want to use them and doesn't usually need to. I sometimes have trouble figuring out how much she's actually understanding of what she's doing if she doesn't use them. Or maybe it's that I have trouble believing she is understanding it ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 My DD got to a stage just prior to her 7th birthday where she groaned every time I dragged out the Right Start manipulatives and would ask if I could please just show her with pencil and paper. That was one reason why I switched her spine from RS to Singapore. Singapore tends to make use of the manipulatives optional. I only break them out if she's having difficulty with a particular problem. She's in Singapore 5A now and seems to be doing fine with this type of approach. In fact, as soon as she finishes her current book, I'm going to accelerate her to pre-algebra (Horizons paired with Singapore Discovering Math 1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Using the manipulatives is probably more difficult for her than not using them. This can be for a few different reasons. It could be that the math is so easy for her to do in her head that moving the manipulatives around is busywork. It could also be that motor planning is a problem for her and the figuring out how to deal with the manipulatives is more difficult than just doing the problem in her head. Both of my kids have motor planning problems, so I just used the manipulatives to demonstrate concepts to avoid the frustration. Keep in mind that Singapore uses the concrete--pictorial--abstract approach. If the kids gets the concept without using the maniuplatives that's just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 DD the Elder tolerated the Right Start abacus, but it was tossed aside as soon as she could see it in her mind (didn't take long). We moved to Singapore for 2A and didn't once use manipulatives. The pictures were sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 My oldest is now 9. I bought many manipulatives and most didn't get used (for their intended purpose). I wouldn't say he hated them. He just didn't seem to need them. :iagree: My oldest (just turned 7) doesn't need manipulatives most of the time. There was ONE time I had to pull out the base 10 blocks to show something, and that was it. He was ok with me pulling them out because he really did need them to understand that one thing. Beyond that, he's never needed them, and I don't bother to use them. He demonstrates conceptual understanding and can explain exactly how he arrives at an answer and why. He's not just using rote algorithms. Also, his math program shows plenty of pictures to demonstrate the steps needed, so he is getting a visual on how it works. That's all he needs (and it's all I needed as a child too). He tends to think very abstractly with math. A lot of his early math was done in the van with no pencil or paper around - he just did problems in his head. Since that's what I am aiming for in the long run, why kill it with unnecessary manipulatives? Usually manipulatives are used because the child isn't ready for the abstract version. The goal is for them NOT to need them, so I think it's fine if they never need them. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjzimmer1 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 My oldest hated manipulatives. Anytime I tried to show him something, he would throw them on the floor, give me a blank state and then suddenly spit out the answer. He "sees" math in his head and the manipulatives were distracting and actually a hindrance to him figuring out the answer. This kid also flew through algebra at 8 (and despite great concerns on my part and scolding from many others that they was no way he could be developmentally ready at that age). Since then, I have run every rabbit trail I could find, ran him through multiple books on the same subject, dragged things out as long as possible, derailed whenever I could and I'm still finding him ready to start Calculus this fall at the grand old age of 13. When they get math, they get math even if it's not the way we might think they should do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmama2 Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 Thanks for replies. So those of you who use SM find the illustrations are enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Thanks for replies. So those of you who use SM find the illustrations are enough? Yup :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Thanks for replies. So those of you who use SM find the illustrations are enough? Yup :) Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 My son seemed to "outgrow" manipulatives around age 5. They were just more-trouble-than-they-were-worth when it came to math. He knew how to manipulate the numbers in his head, so using manipulatives just took more time. He still played with some of the pieces we had on his own, but it was usually creative play (I recall him making Pharoah's heart out of red multilink cubes and a feather out of white cubes and weighing them in his bucket balance. If the heart proved sinful, he fed it to the waiting crocodile [box for the balance]), not math work. On those rare occasions over the years when he really didn't *get* a concept and we were able to use manipulatives to make it clearer, he didn't seem to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Thanks for replies. So those of you who use SM find the illustrations are enough? I think it depends on the kid. But for many kids, they simply don't need the physical objects for very long (if at all in the school years). I know people who swear by the hands-on algebra materials. *shrug* It's nice we've got such a range of possibilities for all of our kiddos, huh? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahRah Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Thanks for replies. So those of you who use SM find the illustrations are enough? Without a doubt. DS hates manipulatives and absolutely won't do anything with them - he's now in SM 2B and we haven't used manipulatives since I realized he hated them. What I do sometimes is ask him to explain his thought process in new concepts, to hear how he is arranging things in his head (or on paper or whitboard) so I know he's got it correctly. What he does enjoy is showing me things on the white board - with lots of different color dry erase markers.....that's his "manipulative" - showing things in different colors, much like the textbook illustrations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 DS was always lukewarm. He would use them, but for most things they weren't any better than diagrams, and he preferred diagrams. The times they were really excellent though were: 1. for place value, we had a 10-bead-per-rod abacus, and a couple days of working with that for adding and subtracting numbers with regrouping and he had it absolutely solidly down pat for the rest of his life (LOL) 2. for adding and subtracting practice in general, we had a soroban (Japanese abacus) with pipe cleaner rods, and he would ride around in the grocery cart adding up our bill as we went. That took care of more fact practice (with carrying, too, but mostly the "making tens" and "making fives" part) than anything else we ever did 3. long division. Finally I got to use my base ten set. :) Other than that, we had a lot of very cool bits and pieces that got very little use. I still love them myself... We did all the bar diagrams for Singapore's Challenging Word Problems, and by the time we got to algebra, he could talk through one without actually drawing (although for some things I like to see the sketch anyway). So as much as I would have loved to use all my lovely manipulatives... he doesn't seem to have suffered from going without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyJen Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Using the manipulatives is probably more difficult for her than not using them. This can be for a few different reasons. It could be that the math is so easy for her to do in her head that moving the manipulatives around is busywork. It could also be that motor planning is a problem for her and the figuring out how to deal with the manipulatives is more difficult than just doing the problem in her head. Both of my kids have motor planning problems, so I just used the manipulatives to demonstrate concepts to avoid the frustration. Keep in mind that Singapore uses the concrete--pictorial--abstract approach. If the kids gets the concept without using the maniuplatives that's just fine. :iagree: If the manipulatives aren't helping, then don't use them for the sake of using them. Different kids learn differently. (did Kai and I just agree on something?? In math no less?? LOL! Well, it didn't involve F**d, so I guess it's okay! <giggle, marking it on calendar> ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 All of mine hated manipulatives. When I started hsing I had nice sets and wanted to use them but the moans and groans got too much for me. What worked best for mine was to just let them work it out for themselves. They seem to relate to a minimum of 'teaching'. I fought it at first but finally gave up and they were happier, had no problems with the work and the sky didn't fall. :) It's ok not to do manipulatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyJen Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I will add that DS7 loves the C-rods on his own when he's just playing and not "doing math.". He finds all the different ways to make tens, divide stuff into fractions, etc on his own with no pressure. I just leave them out where he can get them on his own. But I agree with the PP's ... Not everyone likes or needs 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Manipulatives turn into art pieces or Legos here. MUS blocks were people or sandwiches. Pattern blocks turn into crying girls and the architectural view of that sad girl's room because her parents sent her in there to calm down. C-rods make staircases or, as tonight, a pretend carrot or some such to actually chew on. :glare: For instance: Pattern blocks as a girl who's crying They get used, but NOT for math, lol. The Drama would add with Cheerios but that's about it. They are 99% distraction and 1% math here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 We have much the same effect-pattern blocks get used for making pictures. C-rods make great fences for lego creations ;). Snap cubes and linking base 10 blocks are building toys in and of themselves. I have a lot of manipulatives, because I was a math tutor in a prior life and a lot of my kids needed them. The fact that my own child doesn't is a little frustrating at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Dominion Heather Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 My mathy boy refused to use manipulatives, too. When we were first choosing a math curriculum, I had him watch the Math-U-See video. His response was, "That looks cool, but why do you have to use all those block things? That would be so slow!" So I vote that she is faster in her head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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