Oxford drops the comma

[MtnTeaching]

I read this entire post - thoroughly enthralled. (Someone did mention "Geek", right?)

 

Let me get this straight...I grew up without an Oxford comma, I began homeschooling and learned that I had been taught incorrectly via homeschooling curriculum. I taught my children the comma. Now it seems as if comma usage is subjective and depends on what type of paper I am writing, whether the sentence is ambigious or a professor's preference when grading the paper. (Should I use a comma in the last sentence or not???) Do I have this correct?

 

Wait!! What happened to the two spaces after the end of a sentence???

 

Wait again?? No period after Mr or Mrs????

 

Progress is making my head hurt.:tongue_smilie:

[Ellie]

:party::party::party:

 

:D

[Mrs Mungo]

... then the sentence has not finished yet. The fact that it finishes there must mean that 'coke' and 'tea' are two separate drinks. Compare:

 

"I drank water, gin and tonic."

 

If 'gin and tonic' is one drink, then the sentence isn't finished. For it to be a complete sentence, the comma would have to be replaced by an 'and'. However there is a full stop denoting the end of the sentence, ergo it must be 'gin' and 'tonic' as separate drinks.

 

Laura

 

:iagree:

 

Mixed drinks: "I drink water, lemonade, and gin and tonic."

 

Not mixed: "I drink water, lemonade, gin and tonic."

 

Wait!! What happened to the two spaces after the end of a sentence???

 

Wait again?? No period after Mr or Mrs????

 

You don't put in two spaces after a period on a computer.

 

The second is a style issue, like the apostrophe being used or not in abbreviations: "I own a lot of DVDs," vs. "I own a lot of DVD's." There are a lot of punctuation issues that do not have hard and fast rules. That is why publications and academic institutions have their own style guides or they tell you which style guide to follow.

[JudyJudyJudy]

You don't put in two spaces after a period on a computer.

This is also a style issue. I worked for a company that transcribes letters and documents for attorneys, including big, well-known firms. That company requires two spaces after a period.

[Mrs Mungo]

This is also a style issue. I worked for a company that transcribes letters and documents for attorneys, including big, well-known firms. That company requires two spaces after a period.

 

That's interesting because every major style guide says there should be only one. To my mind, that's more of a holdover quirk for that company than a style issue. ;) :D

[melissel]

That's interesting because every major style guide says there should be only one. To my mind, that's more of a holdover quirk for that company than a style issue. ;) :D

 

This is the only thing that pains me about the MCT books and other RFWP materials. I find it so distracting when I'm reading them! I'm trying to get over it though.

[kiwi3129]

It is up to us to pick up the dropped flag and carry it ourselves, Tangerine.

 

I will never, ever, ever give up the Oxford comma.

 

Wine, women, and song. That looks right.

 

Wine, women and song. That looks like it is missing a comma.

 

:iagree:

I doubt I'll ever be able to change. (That old dogs/new tricks thing I guess!) Now...what to teach the kids. Hmmm.....

[Tiberia]

I feel compelled to share why I believe in the Oxford comma (since you are the only people in my life who will appreciate this):

 

Long ago I saw an ad in the paper for a class offered to families to welcome a new baby into the home. The title of the class was:

 

"Mom, dad and I are having a baby."

 

I have been a proponent of the comma ever since.

[gardening momma]

This was all a hoax! The Oxford comma is still alive!

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/the-oxford-comma-lives-so-why-am-i-so-sad/2011/06/30/AG3pxOsH_blog.html

I think the author of the Washington Post article has bigger problems than the Oxford comma if she thinks this is ok:

 

Oxford University Press has eased the fears of the Twittersphere, saying there have been no changes to the rule set down in “New Hart’s Rules†pertaining to its comma, which is used before a coordinating conjunction in a list of three or more, words according to the Associated Press.

[Tangerine]

I feel compelled to share why I believe in the Oxford comma (since you are the only people in my life who will appreciate this):

 

Long ago I saw an ad in the paper for a class offered to families to welcome a new baby into the home. The title of the class was:

 

"Mom, dad and I are having a baby."

 

I have been a proponent of the comma ever since.

 

Ew. :tongue_smilie:

[Mrs Mungo]

I feel compelled to share why I believe in the Oxford comma (since you are the only people in my life who will appreciate this):

 

Long ago I saw an ad in the paper for a class offered to families to welcome a new baby into the home. The title of the class was:

 

"Mom, dad and I are having a baby."

 

I have been a proponent of the comma ever since.

 

I don't think even the super-powers of an Oxford comma can save that sentence. :lol:

[Capt_Uhura]

OK I was coming to post MCT's sentence but nothing beats

 

"Mom, dad and I are having a baby."

 

Well I might as well put it. I'm sure MCt wouldn't mind. Robert Frost wrote that the woods were "lovely, dark and deep." The editors inserted the comma before and. Later, they took it back out in a new edition. Reason: Frost did not mean that the woods were three things. He meant that dark depth was lovely. If you do not use the comma when it really is a list, you lose the chance to make that distinction. http://rfwpsupport.com/showthread.php?177-Oxford-drops-the-serial-comma.....-what-say-you-MCT

[Spy Car]

OK I was coming to post MCT's sentence but nothing beats

 

"Mom, dad and I are having a baby."

 

Well I might as well put it. I'm sure MCt wouldn't mind. Robert Frost wrote that the woods were "lovely, dark and deep." The editors inserted the comma before and. Later, they took it back out in a new edition. Reason: Frost did not mean that the woods were three things. He meant that dark depth was lovely. If you do not use the comma when it really is a list, you lose the chance to make that distinction. http://rfwpsupport.com/showthread.php?177-Oxford-drops-the-serial-comma.....-what-say-you-MCT

 

Great example with Frost. The Oxford comma (as a standard) makes "dark and deep" as a unified idea expressible. The comma, or lack thereof, also tells us how to read the line.

 

The woods were "lovely, dark, and deep" should be read differently than the woods were "lovely, dark and deep." A person reading the poem would be clued by the punctuation.

 

Long live the Oxford comma!

 

Bill

Edited July 1, 2011 by Spy Car

[Lovin Learnin]

OK I was coming to post MCT's sentence but nothing beats

 

"Mom, dad and I are having a baby."

 

Well I might as well put it. I'm sure MCt wouldn't mind. Robert Frost wrote that the woods were "lovely, dark and deep." The editors inserted the comma before and. Later, they took it back out in a new edition. Reason: Frost did not mean that the woods were three things. He meant that dark depth was lovely. If you do not use the comma when it really is a list, you lose the chance to make that distinction. http://rfwpsupport.com/showthread.php?177-Oxford-drops-the-serial-comma.....-what-say-you-MCT

 

Great example. The company I used to work for dropped the Oxford comma years ago, so I got used to not using it. I've been debating whether I should make dd use it or not. This example just solidified my decision.

[gardening momma]

OK I was coming to post MCT's sentence but nothing beats

 

"Mom, dad and I are having a baby."

 

Well I might as well put it. I'm sure MCt wouldn't mind. Robert Frost wrote that the woods were "lovely, dark and deep." The editors inserted the comma before and. Later, they took it back out in a new edition. Reason: Frost did not mean that the woods were three things. He meant that dark depth was lovely. If you do not use the comma when it really is a list, you lose the chance to make that distinction. http://rfwpsupport.com/showthread.php?177-Oxford-drops-the-serial-comma.....-what-say-you-MCT

I love MCT :001_wub:, [<--um, not sure where to put that comma] and I haven't even started using it in our homeschool. So they teach the Oxford comma but make the distinction of when it should not be used?

[Laura Corin]

Great example with Frost. The Oxford comma (as a standard) makes "dark and deep" as a unified idea expressible. The comma, or lack thereof, also tells us how to read the line.

 

The woods were "lovely, dark, and deep" should be read differently than the woods were "lovely, dark and deep." A person reading the poem would be clued by the punctuation.

 

Long live the Oxford comma!

 

Bill

 

That would be punctuated:

 

"The woods were lovely: dark and deep."

 

As a non-Oxford-comma-using Brit, that's how I would write it. There's no room for confusion there, plus the endangered colon is given an outing.

 

Circumcision.... now Oxford commas. Our bond is melting... melting......

 

Laura

Edited July 2, 2011 by Laura Corin

[melissel]

That would be punctuated:

 

"The woods were lovely: dark and deep."

 

As a non-Oxford-comma-using Brit, that's how I would write it. There's no room for confusion there, plus the endangered colon is given an outing.

 

Circumcision.... now Oxford commas. Our bond is melting... melting......

 

Laura

 

OK, I am a huge proponent of the colon, but really, don't you think that just destroys the poetics there? Colons are so unromantic (ETA: in so many more ways than just this one :lol:).

[Mrs Mungo]

Poetry gets punctuated differently than prose. Poetry always get a pass from me because it is all about the form.

 

i carry your heart with me

 

 

 

 

i carry your heart with me(i carry it in

 

 

my heart)i am never without it(anywhere

i go you go,my dear; and whatever is done

by only me is your doing,my darling)

i fear

no fate(for you are my fate,my sweet)i want

no world(for beautiful you are my world,my true)

and it's you are whatever a moon has always meant

and whatever a sun will always sing is you

 

here is the deepest secret nobody knows

(here is the root of the root and the bud of the bud

and the sky of the sky of a tree called life;which grows

higher than the soul can hope or mind can hide)

and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apart

 

i carry your heart(i carry it in my heart)

 

 

This Is Just To Say

I have eaten

the plums

that were in

the icebox

 

and which

you were probably

saving

for breakfast

 

Forgive me

they were delicious

so sweet

and so cold

[angela in ohio]

OK, I am a huge proponent of the colon, but really, don't you think that just destroys the poetics there? Colons are so unromantic (ETA: in so many more ways than just this one :lol:).

 

I agree. I think a full stop ruins the line.

[kitten18]

I was taught to use it, and I will continue to use it. I cringe whenever I find it missing.

:iagree:

 

 

 

 

The "logic" of the comma is that it clues the reader to the beat of the language, specifically it indicates a slight pause.

 

In the sentence: "He enjoyed a breakfast of ham and eggs" there would not be a pause between "ham" and "eggs." But were the sentence : "He enjoyed a breakfast of ham, porridge, and eggs there would be slight pauses where there are commas. To write: "He enjoyed a breakfast of ham, porridge and eggs" would not reflect how one ought to read the line. And ultimately punctuation should serve readability (as well as clarity of thought).

 

Bill

:iagree:

[Spy Car]

That would be punctuated:

 

"The woods were lovely: dark and deep."

 

As a non-Oxford-comma-using Brit, that's how I would write it. There's no room for confusion there, plus the endangered colon is given an outing.

 

Circumcision.... now Oxford commas. Our bond is melting... melting......

 

Laura

 

Would it help if I granted that: "The woods were lovely: dark and deep" seems like a reasonable (if not especially aesthetically pleasing) alternative? :D

 

And...to top it off...I have fully converted to elimination of full stops (and that is what I call them here) after Dr, Mrs, and Mr (but as you can see I'm tenaciously hanging on to that Oxford comma :tongue_smilie:).

 

Let's let those bonds renew :001_smile:

 

Bill

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

 

 

This Is Just To Say

I have eaten

the plums

that were in

the icebox

 

and which

you were probably

saving

for breakfast

 

Forgive me

they were delicious

so sweet

and so cold

 

Have you seen and heard Matthew MacFadyen reciting this poem?

[Mrs Mungo]

Have you seen and heard Matthew MacFadyen reciting this poem?

 

It was a mistake watching that. I could watch him recite poetry all night. But, William Carlos Williams is one of my favorite poets.

[Laura Corin]

OK, I am a huge proponent of the colon, but really, don't you think that just destroys the poetics there? Colons are so unromantic (ETA: in so many more ways than just this one :lol:).

 

Colons can look a bit persnickety. A dash would work too.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

Let's let those bonds renew :001_smile:

 

Bill

 

Laura