tntgoodwin Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I'm in the "wait" camp. I just don't see the point of dating. In my opinion, it is for the purpose of looking for a husband/wife. A 15 year old is certainly not in the mindset of looking for a husband/wife. Dating and being alone together, for teens, just leads to more temptation than most can handle. Not always the case. I certainly was. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailofsparks Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I think the reason the reason other people make a bigger deal about sexual sins may come from their feeling about this verse: I Corinthians 6:18 New Living Translation (NLT) "18 Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body" But I agree. I think sometimes people over-react to this sin and ignore the others. :iagree:completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailofsparks Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Well, yes, there was shouting. :D And it was the only time I ever took away her cell phone, and how I learned the hard way that you can still text someone over an itouch! I had to take that away too. I told her I couldn't force her to break up with him, but that I could insist she make changes that I felt were necessary for her mental and physical health. Those changes were what broke up the relationship. He was extremely controlling. I made her get a part-time job which forced her into being around other people. He didn't like that. He didn't think it was necessary for her to talk with other people. He definitely did not like that she had guy friends. He got on her facebook and unfriended every single male, except for her father. I got on her facebook, changed her password and made her re-invite all of her friends. Basically, I pushed really hard for her to get involved with things outside that relationship and he broke up with her when he lost control. She is now very cautious about any single person that wants to place any such restrictions on her. Huge applause! Bravo. When I was young, I would have wanted (yes, even as a teen in the moment) to have my parents pursue me and care this much. :hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Rather than copy and paste all of Joanne's comments I'll just say that :iagree:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
learningmama Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 :lurk5: Great thoughts everyone...keep it coming!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeraldjoy Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Although I do not have a been there, done that story I am hugely interested in this topic as my oldest is 12 1/2. From a very, very spiritual point of view I firmly believe that G-d has created us to be unified with another human being completely, tis part of his purpose and, even taking it a step further, I believe that his "Godness" actually shows up in that union. It is not anything to be feared, but something to be cherished and celebrated. I grew up in a religious situation where the only thing I knew about sex and such was that it was wrong and sinful....literally, that was it. No dialogue every took place except don't do it, its wrong, very, very wrong. So guess what, when I did it (and yes it happened even under the strictess of circumstances) I defaulted to this thinking pattern of "Im going to hell, it doesn't matter anymore, no turning back since I made this huge mistake" etc, etc...which perpelled me into even further inappropriate and very, very damaging sexual behavior. It was sort of an all or nothing situation. I am in recovery from a meth addiction (13 years), and honestly, don't have near as many regrets about that than my sexual past. What I did hurt me as a woman and as a human in ways that have taken years to heal from...that is the foundation of how I feel about dating and such for my kids....that deep, deep heartache and shame and such is nothing I would ever want for them. This puts me into a interesting situation where I am in the date to mate camp.....to a very delicate point, on the one hand....and on the other, because there is also a hgue part of me that feels that some of my damaging behavior could have been curbed if my parents weren't so strict without explanation, I find myself being on the other side, if that makes any sense at all. I guess what I so far have defaulted to is that I firmly believe that my Creator has also created someone perfect for each of my children, that is what I teach them and they know. They also know that this relationship is exciting and G-d derived. Keeping the dialogue open is key. Keeping the shame out of it is also important, probably the most important aspect of this...shame compells us to hide and sneak, it is just how we are, as humans. There has to be room for mistakes, there just has to....that is what I learned from my personal experience. The standards that my parents had set for me could have been okay, I know that they were only done with the in tention to keep me safe...however, I needed to understand them to be able to respect mmyself enough to stay away from sick relationships....they could set the rules up until they were blue in the face, but it didn't matter because i didn't get it, noone explained anything...they just said no, and shame shame. after all that rambling I would also like to add that some teaching that I have found very helpful is the Theology of the Body through the catholic church, and I'm not catholic. It sets the standard, a high standard but helps to make sense of it all so it becomes meaningful, not just rules. ok enough for now. e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Well, yes, there was shouting. :D And it was the only time I ever took away her cell phone, and how I learned the hard way that you can still text someone over an itouch! I had to take that away too. I told her I couldn't force her to break up with him, but that I could insist she make changes that I felt were necessary for her mental and physical health. Those changes were what broke up the relationship. He was extremely controlling. I made her get a part-time job which forced her into being around other people. He didn't like that. He didn't think it was necessary for her to talk with other people. He definitely did not like that she had guy friends. He got on her facebook and unfriended every single male, except for her father. I got on her facebook, changed her password and made her re-invite all of her friends. Basically, I pushed really hard for her to get involved with things outside that relationship and he broke up with her when he lost control. She is now very cautious about any single person that wants to place any such restrictions on her. You are an awesome mom! Really, I'm so impressed that you did this. I know it was not easy, but you were right to do it. I love how you respected "the emerging adult" as another poster put it, until the point where she clearly needed parental protection and redirection. I think I might save your post as an example of maintaining that healthy balance. Thanks for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelaughs_times_three Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I grew up in a religious situation where the only thing I knew about sex and such was that it was wrong and sinful....literally, that was it. No dialogue every took place except don't do it, its wrong, very, very wrong. So guess what, when I did it (and yes it happened even under the strictess of circumstances) I defaulted to this thinking pattern of "Im going to hell, it doesn't matter anymore, no turning back since I made this huge mistake" etc, etc...which perpelled me into even further inappropriate and very, very damaging sexual behavior. It was sort of an all or nothing situation. I know exactly what you mean. This happened to me to. If I was going to sin, I might as well do it BIG! It didn't seem to matter once I crossed the "shame" line. Keeping the dialogue open is key. Keeping the shame out of it is also important, probably the most important aspect of this...shame compells us to hide and sneak, it is just how we are, as humans. There has to be room for mistakes, there just has to....that is what I learned from my personal experience. The standards that my parents had set for me could have been okay, I know that they were only done with the in tention to keep me safe...however, I needed to understand them to be able to respect mmyself enough to stay away from sick relationships....they could set the rules up until they were blue in the face, but it didn't matter because i didn't get it, noone explained anything...they just said no, and shame shame. :iagree: I can really relate to all of this. I agree. We have to find a way to teach our kids a healthy view of sex. Free of shame. And yet, free of the best friends with benefits, casual, sex doesn't really mean much past the pleasure, way that it seems like it is promoted today. Sex and love is meant to be SO MUCH MORE than it is presented in movies/shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I have older kids. My oldest didn't date until he was in college and was at least 17. I know he went on one or two dates with one girl and that was it. Then I know he met another girl who he dated for over a year. He broke up with her and I think it was appropriate. She was about two years older than him and in my observations, treated him like a project. He finally got tired of that. My second, who is 17, almost 18, made her one friend here in Va who is a boy. They first went out to a homeschool prom. SInce then, she has seen him play his sport a few times, and once they went to a movie and then back to his house for dinner. Tomorrow he is being dropped off at our house (a surprise to me since I am sick with pneumonia) and being driven to Ventures meeting with her and her sister. Do I think there is anything wrong with this? No. I don't believe nor does she that she will marry him but that is years in the future anyway. Would I be upset if they married in four years? No but as I told her, the fed. govt won't pay for her law school if they do that. I suspect that when we move next month and when she goes to college in AUgust, the relationship will falter. AS it is, she is not in love with the boy and I think he cares more about her then she does about him. I mean, I think she mainly thinks of him as a good friend and he probably thinks of her as more of a gf. BUt both understand she is moving. My youngest is 14.5. Like the other two, she has not expressed any interest in early dating. Though my kids don't look like nerds, they really sort of are and thus the later dating. It was the same for both myself and my husband. Other than walking aroudn an amusement park with one boy at the end of ninth grade, I didn't date until college. Dh didn't go on a date until senior prom and then the next person he dated was me. With my middle, I think it is great that she has had some dates with this boy. He is a very nice boy (much calmer than she is and not impulsive either) and I think the limited situation she has with him is perfect for her to get over some of her social phobia. It also is very helpful that someone did care to ask her to something since she was having some problems with the fact that she is very attractive and receives unwanted reactions from freaks but no noticeable to her attention from normal boys. As her sister overheard, other kids found her sort of intimidating because of her attractiveness, intelligence, and drive. She was voted most likely to succeed and most likely to break the glass ceiling in the senior awards which were voted on by the other high schoolers. The boyfriend treats her like a friend and doesn't seem intimidated by her. I don't think either one of them is in love but they are having a nice time learning how to date. For both of them, I think it has been a very useful exercise as they are both very shy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I've asked my married women friends if ANY of them wish they'd dated MORE in their teen and young adult years and not one of them said they did. Quite a few, including myself, wish we'd dated *less*. I'm not refuting your personal experience. I just thought you'd like to know that I'm a married woman, actually twice married, and I wish I had dated more. I settled too quickly and it was not the best decision. Everything looked perfect from the beginning. He was definitely my ideal. Too bad it ended in divorce. There are many people who have happier stories than mine, of course. But I think if I had dated more, I would have had more experience to make an informed decision rather than my naive decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I'm not refuting your personal experience. I just thought you'd like to know that I'm a married woman, actually twice married, and I wish I had dated more. I settled too quickly and it was not the best decision. Everything looked perfect from the beginning. He was definitely my ideal. Too bad it ended in divorce. There are many people who have happier stories than mine, of course. But I think if I had dated more, I would have had more experience to make an informed decision rather than my naive decision. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Yes, I've seen that. But that is not what happens when an engaged, intentional, involved parent is supervising, partnering, and working with the child. A parent who is intentionally aware of what is going on is going to put limits on the vehicles through which drama can develop, on the amount of time spent obsessing, and cultivate a moderated tone. I've seen several posters in this thread who regret early and deep involvement. I'm guessing that many people who feel that way weren't *parented intentionally* during those early dating years. I love this, Joanne, and it is my experience, also. It's the intelligent, respectful, loving, hands on parenting that makes the difference. What was lacking in my own teenage years wasn't necessarily directions in one way or the other- it was involved parents. Mine were newly divorced and too busy with their own new relationships to parent effectively. They "trusted" me and let me have my freedom- I ended up leaving home at 16. I had been badly damaged by their divorce. I don't wish I hadn't "dated", I wish my parents had not been frightened of me, and had continued to parent as effectively as they had during my earlier childhood instead of letting go and thinking I would be just fine without their close guidance and attention. I was basically emotionally abandoned from around age 14. Many parents give up involved parenting by the mid teens- they feel they have lost control. That is what i am seeing around me. Dating from that perspective is a very different story to dating that happens when parents are right there, still very involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciyates Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Tara- The comment "little girlfriend" wasn't mean to be belittling. I am not comfortable with it but am willing to work with him seeing a girl intentionally. In the past he has gone to the movies with friends and hung out at festivals and sporting event ect... Maybe I am not ready to see him grow up. We have had talks for years with him about all kinds of things. We did talk today about not allowing yourself to get in a situation where you had to stop and think about what was going to happen next. We talked (today and in the past many times) how quickly you can go from hand holding and kissing to other things and once you are there how hard it can be to say no. He is also very respectful of girls so I don't see that as an issue but he is a boy and his hormones are raging so I would be dumb to think it wasn't happening. Tomorrow they are going to the movies (I am picking her up) walking across the parking lot to get pizza and then coming back to our house to do something around here. She has to be home by 10pm I told him she would be home much earlier than that. Her parents and us are going to get together and have a cook out as soon as they get back from vacation. The one funny thing today that did lighten my mood is he realized that girls are expensive. He had to mow two lawns to have enough money to cover his date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Not always the case. I certainly was. :) Me too... I was definitely of marriage mindedness by the time I was 15. This is why I'm reluctant to put an age stamp on when it's appropriate for teens to date. It's not so much age, but seriousness/ devotion that concerns me. While financially it's not really feasible for your average teens to make a commitment and start a family, older teens with family support might be able to do it, and still be able to finish college and have a career. Personally, I held out for marriage until I was out of college, due to my family's opposition to marriage before that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I have discouraged my kids from dating for dating's sake since they were old enough to even vaguely understand the notion. I see it as too much of a danger, emotionally and physically, and too much of a distraction from their studies. I have gotten a LOT of flak for this from more liberal acquaintances and have been pretty mercilessly teased or outright shunned for it, but my feelings on this issue are strong. I don't have an exact age in mind for when dating is appropriate, but we've always emphasized that dating is not meant for recreation but rather finding a more serious, hopefully longterm/ permanent relationship. That being said, if one of them does turn out to be hell bent on having boyfriends and sex by age 15, we're not going to disown her either. I am a pragmatist and will roll with the punches. Same for my son and girlfriends. Thankfully our teenagers show zero interest in sex or the opposite gender, so we might have an easy time of it. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I say what's the rush? As a Christian, too, I hope that my daughters especially are more concerned with where they think God is taking them in life whether or NOT (and I almost hope NOT, right away) it's towards marriage! Maybe it's selfish, but I hope my girls have plenty of time to live with a purpose that's just between them and God and not them, God and a husband. Freedom is a nice thing when you're young and learning about life! Not to disparage marriage at all...I think many of the ladies here know what I mean. :) YES, this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I'm not refuting your personal experience. I just thought you'd like to know that I'm a married woman, actually twice married, and I wish I had dated more. I settled too quickly and it was not the best decision. Everything looked perfect from the beginning. He was definitely my ideal. Too bad it ended in divorce. There are many people who have happier stories than mine, of course. But I think if I had dated more, I would have had more experience to make an informed decision rather than my naive decision. My mom wished she had dated more. She was pretty upset when I married my dh at 21. She really wanted me to wait and date more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailofsparks Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I love this, Joanne, and it is my experience, also. It's the intelligent, respectful, loving, hands on parenting that makes the difference. What was lacking in my own teenage years wasn't necessarily directions in one way or the other- it was involved parents. Mine were newly divorced and too busy with their own new relationships to parent effectively. They "trusted" me and let me have my freedom- I ended up leaving home at 16. I had been badly damaged by their divorce. I don't wish I hadn't "dated", I wish my parents had not been frightened of me, and had continued to parent as effectively as they had during my earlier childhood instead of letting go and thinking I would be just fine without their close guidance and attention. I was basically emotionally abandoned from around age 14. Many parents give up involved parenting by the mid teens- they feel they have lost control. That is what i am seeing around me. Dating from that perspective is a very different story to dating that happens when parents are right there, still very involved. Same story here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailofsparks Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 The one funny thing today that did lighten my mood is he realized that girls are expensive. He had to mow two lawns to have enough money to cover his date. This is why they sometimes feel entitled to "more" from a girl. Not saying anything personally toward your son, just in general. So, what do you all think about dating and going dutch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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