Grammar question - Subject/verb agreement with "none"

[Kathleen in VA]

My internet connection went out for a few minutes and I got a message on my desktop saying "None of your preferred networks are available." It sounds weird to me. Shouldn't it say "None of your preferred networks is available"? I was taught to think of the word "none" as "not one," so it makes sense to me that the verb should be is, not are. If you eliminate the prepositional phrase (ala Easy Grammar) you are left with "None are available." OK, someone set me straight - it just sounds weird to me - but could Apple make that kind of error? It doesn't seem likely, but then after the McDonald's "desert" thing - well, I just don't know any longer.

[Plaid Dad]

None is singular: not one. :)

[Chelle in MO]

I agree w/you, but I don't know if I'm right! I was taught to think of it as "not one" also, so the verb would be "is".

[Caitilin]

None is singular: not one. :)

 

Yeppers! It's especially easy to see the sense of it if you think about a group of people:

 

"none of them is my sister" or "none of them is available" both show that none is a contracted for of "not one".:001_smile:

[VaKim]

CLE teaches that none is an indefinite pronoun that is singular or plural depending on the word to which it refers (which is usually in a prep. phrase).

 

This isn't CLE (obviously) but a link explaining.

 

http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/subjectVerbAgree.asp

(Rule 9 on that page)

 

http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/articles/article/1026513/9903.htm

Edited May 26, 2011 by VaKim

[DawnM]

I asked this same question on another board.

 

http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/articles/article/1026513/9903.htm

 

I have always been taught that none is indeed singular, however, I am not sure I am correct now that I have done some google searches.

 

The SAT review still does list none as being singular only. However, several sources seem to indicate that this is not the case and that verb depends on the object of the preposition.

 

Dawn

[Kathleen in VA]

CLE teaches that none is an indefinite pronoun that is singular or plural depending on the word to which it refers (which is usually in a prep. phrase).

 

This isn't CLE (obviously) but a link explaining.

 

http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/subjectVerbAgree.asp

(Rule 9 on that page)

 

http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/articles/article/1026513/9903.htm'>http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/articles/article/1026513/9903.htm'>http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/articles/article/1026513/9903.htm'>http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/articles/article/1026513/9903.htm

 

I asked this same question on another board.

 

http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/articles/article/1026513/9903.htm

 

I have always been taught that none is indeed singular, however, I am not sure I am correct now that I have done some google searches.

 

The SAT review still does list none as being singular only. However, several sources seem to indicate that this is not the case and that verb depends on the object of the preposition.

 

Dawn

 

This is very interesting, especially if you use Wanda Phillips' (Easy Grammar) method of eliminating prepositional phrases before locating the subject and verb of a sentence. I'm going to do some more research.

[mandymom]

A common misconception is that none must always be treated as singular. The customary support for this view is that none necessarily means "not one" (implying singularity); in fact, "none" is just as likely to imply "not any" (implying plurality). As noted in The American Heritage Dictionary: "the word has been used as both a singular and a plural noun from Old English onward. The plural usage appears in the King James Bible as well as the works of John Dryden and Edmund Burke and is widespread in the works of respectable writers today."

 

The most sensible rule is the one that governs similar words designating a portion of something (fractions, percentages, and indefinite pronnouns such as some, most, many, all, and more). Just as we write "some of it is" or "two-thirds of it is", we would write "none of it is"; just as write "some of them are" or "two-thirds of them are", we would write "none of them are."

 

Idiomatically, few of us would be comfortable with "None these people is happy" or "None of my friends is going with me." The sense here is plural: not any. Yet the myth of the singularity of none persists, even among people who frequently say, "None . . . are." (Why is it that some people cling to a simplistic rule, even when it's wrong, rather than face the necessity of making a choice based on sense?)

 

When the sense is plural (as indicated by a plural noun or pronoun in the following prepositional phrase – "none of [plural entity]"), none is plural; when the sense is singular (as indicated by a singular noun or pronoun in the following prepositional phrase – "none of [singular entity]"), none is singular.

 

Futhermore, we may have some instances in which either is correct. The American Heritage Dictionary notes: "The choice between a singular or plural verb depends on the desired effect. Both options are acceptable in this sentence: None of the conspirators has (or have) been brought to trial." And that is true because the sense of none may be construed here as either "not one" or "not any."

 

Two last points are worth noting. It is difficult to avoid treating none as a plural when it is modified by almost – "Almost none of the children were [not was] well-behaved." And, in constructions such as "None but a few of the students were able to complete the test," none must be treated as a plural.

 

Source Not a super-official one, but it made sense :001_smile:

[nukeswife]

I would view none as plural in that sentence because it was being used to reference "Preferred Networks" which is plural, therefore you would use the verb "are"

[TN Mama]

None is singular: not one. :)

 

:seeya: Welcome back!

[Nestof3]

I would view none as plural in that sentence because it was being used to reference "Preferred Networks" which is plural, therefore you would use the verb "are"

But I thought the verb agreed with the subject. To me, none is more singular than plural. Lol. I've always gone with it being singular.

[Mom in High Heels]

I've always heard it was both singular and plural depending on usage. Out of curiosity (because my baby-related sleep deprived brain is barely functioning and I can't think of one), what word would you use in place of "none" for plural?

[Nestof3]

I've always heard it was both singular and plural depending on usage. Out of curiosity (because my baby-related sleep deprived brain is barely functioning and I can't think of one), what word would you use in place of "none" for plural?

 

But the subject is the thing that must agree with the verb.

 

Example:

 

"Five of the children bake the cake."

 

Five is the subject. Of the cake is the prepositional phrase modifying the subject five.

 

Five is plural.

 

None is singular.

[LizzyBee]

I was taught in school that none is singular, and my kids' grammar books also taught it as singular.

 

Idiomatically, few of us would be comfortable with "None of these people is happy" or "None of my friends is going with me."

 

I would be comfortable with those sentences. If they used are instead of is, I'd consider them incorrect. :tongue_smilie:

[Truscifi]

I was taught it was indefinite, and depended on whether it meant not one or not any. But I had a grammar teacher who liked to make things difficult. ;)

[Princess Peach]

I was taught it was indefinite, and depended on whether it meant not one or not any. But I had a grammar teacher who liked to make things difficult. ;)

 

I agree with this, actually, and I don't think none always means not one, but can mean not any (which implies plurality).

[Nestof3]

I agree with this, actually, and I don't think none always means not one, but can mean not any (which implies plurality).

 

But, not any still means none which is less than singular (one). This is making my head spin.

[Corraleno]

I worked as a book editor for many years and every dictionary or style guide I've ever consulted states that "none" can be either singular or plural.

 

Particia O'Connor, in Woe is I: The Grammarphobes Guide to Better English, sums it up quite well:

Many people seem to have been taught (mistakenly) that none always means "not one"... But most authorities have always believed that none is actually closer in meaning to "not any (of them)" than to "not one (of them). So it's considered plural in most cases and takes a plural verb: None of the chickens are hatched.

 

None is singular only when it means "none of it" — that is to say, "no amount": None of the milk was spilled.

 

If you really do mean "not one," say "not one."

 

Oxford:

It is sometimes held that none can only take a singular verb, never a plural verb: "none of them is coming tonight" rather than "none of them are coming tonight." There is little justification, historical or grammatical, for this view. None is descended from Old English nān meaning ‘not one’ and has been used for around a thousand years with both a singular and a plural verb, depending on the context and the emphasis needed.

 

Merriam-Webster:

pronoun, singular or plural

1. not any

2. not one

 

American Heritage Dictionary:

the word has been used as both a singular and a plural noun from Old English onward. The plural usage appears in the King James Bible as well as the works of John Dryden and Edmund Burke and is widespread in the works of respectable writers today

 

New York Times Style Guide:

Despite a widespread assumption that it stands for not one, the word has been construed as a plural (not any) in most contexts for centuries. H. W. Fowler’s Dictionary of Modern English Usage (1926) endorsed the plural use. Make none plural except when emphasizing the idea of not one or no one — and then consider using those phrases instead.

 

Elements of Style, Strunk & White:

With none, use the singular verb when the word means "no one" or "not one." ... A plural verb is commonly used when none suggests more than one thing or person. None are so fallible as those who are sure they're right.

 

Rhetorical Grammar, Martha Kolln:

One special problem occurs with the word none, which has its origin in the phrase not one. Because of that original meaning, many writers insist that none always be singular, as not one clearly is. However, a more accurate way to assess its meaning is to recognize none as the negative, or opposite, of all and to treat it in the same way, with its number determined by the number of the modifier.

 

E.g.

All of the cake was left.

None of the cake was left.

All of the cookies were left.

None of the cookies were left.

 

Dictionary.com:

Since none has the meanings “not one†and “not any,†some insist that it always be treated as a singular and be followed by a singular verb: The rescue party searched for survivors, but none was found. However, none has been used with both singular and plural verbs since the 9th century. When the sense is “not any persons or things†(as in the example above), the plural is more common: … none were found. Only when none is clearly intended to mean “not one†or “not any†is it followed by a singular verb: Of all my articles, none has received more acclaim than my latest one.

 

Jackie

[Kathleen in VA]

I worked as a book editor for many years and every dictionary or style guide I've ever consulted states that "none" can be either singular or plural.

 

Particia O'Connor, in Woe is I: The Grammarphobes Guide to Better English, sums it up quite well:

 

 

Oxford:

 

 

Merriam-Webster:

 

 

American Heritage Dictionary:

 

 

New York Times Style Guide:

 

 

Elements of Style, Strunk & White:

 

 

Rhetorical Grammar, Martha Kolln:

 

 

Dictionary.com:

 

 

Jackie

 

Thanks for taking the time to quote all those references. Guess I'll delete that email I was going to send to Apple.:D

[Spy Car]

I worked as a book editor for many years and every dictionary or style guide I've ever consulted states that "none" can be either singular or plural.

 

Particia O'Connor, in Woe is I: The Grammarphobes Guide to Better English, sums it up quite well:

 

 

Oxford:

 

 

Merriam-Webster:

 

 

American Heritage Dictionary:

 

 

New York Times Style Guide:

 

 

Elements of Style, Strunk & White:

 

 

Rhetorical Grammar, Martha Kolln:

 

 

Dictionary.com:

 

 

Jackie

 

Good Job!

 

You can add Fowler's Modern English usage which says:

 

It is a mistake to suppose that the pronoun is singular only and must at all costs be followed by singular verbs; the OED explicitly states that plural construction is commoner.

 

And if one looks at the unabridged OED one can find support for the plural usage of "none" as "not any" extends far back into pre-Modern English and forward to this day.

 

Bill

[TracieT]

So, am I thinking correctly?:

 

If I were looking in a pile of shoes for my left shoe I would say: "None of these is my shoe."

 

If I were looking in a pile of shoes for both my left and right shoes I would say: "None of these are my shoes."

[sheryl]

My internet connection went out for a few minutes and I got a message on my desktop saying "None of your preferred networks are available." It sounds weird to me. Shouldn't it say "None of your preferred networks is available"? I was taught to think of the word "none" as "not one," so it makes sense to me that the verb should be is, not are. If you eliminate the prepositional phrase (ala Easy Grammar) you are left with "None are available." OK, someone set me straight - it just sounds weird to me - but could Apple make that kind of error? It doesn't seem likely, but then after the McDonald's "desert" thing - well, I just don't know any longer.

 

"is" is the correct verb for the subject "none". None is available. Even though networks has a plural form, "preferred networks" refers to ONE entity, set or group....and "not one" is available in the group.

[Spy Car]

"is" is the correct verb for the subject "none". None is available. Even though networks has a plural form, "preferred networks" refers to ONE entity, set or group....and "not one" is available in the group.

 

This insists on limiting "none" to an anti-historical construction.

 

Our language has always supported a plural construction for none.

 

"Not any (none) of the preferred networks are available" is orthodox English.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

So, am I thinking correctly?:

 

If I were looking in a pile of shoes for my left shoe I would say: "None of these is my shoe."

 

If I were looking in a pile of shoes for both my left and right shoes I would say: "None of these are my shoes."

 

Yes.

 

The first is: Not any one of these is my shoe.

 

The second is: Not any of these are my shoes.

 

Both are valid and grammatically correct usage.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

So have the "singularists" surrendered the field? :D

 

I've never known a WTM-side to fold so quickly :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

[Nestof3]

So have the "singularists" surrendered the field? :D

 

I've never known a WTM-side to fold so quickly :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

 

Honestly, Bill, I haven't had time to really read this thread all day. I am exhausted from working out, homeschooling and taking care of business paperwork. Today was one of those days where I have felt behind and panicky about everything.

 

I'm now ready to kick back and relax. At least for a few minutes before turning to the kitchen to make dinner. :tongue_smilie:

[Spy Car]

Honestly, Bill, I haven't had time to really read this thread all day. I am exhausted from working out, homeschooling and taking care of business paperwork. Today was one of those days where I have felt behind and panicky about everything.

 

I'm now ready to kick back and relax. At least for a few minutes before turning to the kitchen to make dinner. :tongue_smilie:

 

It's good to know you have your priorities :D

 

Bill

[catalinakel]

None is singular: not one. :)

 

Welcome back, Drew. I have wondered about you and yours, and miss your blog. None, however, can be either singular or plural. But by now I am sure you know that.

[Guest druekberg]

Singularist here. My root argument is that "none" has the word "one" it. Similarly, "nothing" has the word "thing" in it, which is likewise sadly (and perhaps somewhat bitterly) singular.

 

Corollary argument: We can consult OED for precedents, but would anyone disagree that history is known (at times) to be illogical?

 

Two Premises (above): "If I were looking in a pile of shoes for my left shoe I would say: "None of these is my shoe."

If I were looking in a pile of shoes for both my left and right shoes I would say: "None of these are my shoes."

 

The second premise is the faulty factor. In my case, if I were looking in a pile of shoes for both my left AND my right shoes, as a single pair, I would say (if I weren't overcome with emotion), "Among all [of these shoes], not one [of these] is my PAIR [singular] of shoes," or "Not one is my left shoe, and not one is my right shoe." Or I would say, "Both [[of] my left shoe and my right shoe] are not in this pile."

 

However, if I were emotionally distraught, or poorly schooled, or given to illogical grammatical construction, I would blurt out, "None of these is my shoes" and people would still know what I meant; to wit, "Both [of my shoes] are not in this stinking pile of other peoples' shoes (some of which are paired and many of which are not, or so it seems)."

 

Or should that be, "Or so they seem?"

 

But to the point: Apple touts itself as God's gift to humanity. If this were true, it would avoid the whole issue and reconstruct the sentence. Since it will not, it is less helpful (but more human) to say, "None of your preferred networks is available." If this means, "Of your list of 10 networks [i.e network access points], not a single one is available," the suggestion is that a user might have 10 networks at his or her disposal. In my experience, if something was (were) wrong with my network configuration on my computer, not one, any, or all of the 10 would be accessible. On the other hand, if I had access to 3 network access points, and my computer was up to speed, and for some freakish reason all 3 access points were down (i.e. local power outage at work), this message would apply in all of its plurality. More simply stated, "All of your networks ARE inaccessible or broken" (emphasis mine).

 

At home, however, I only have one access point (my router), as well as a list of other access points I may have saved as I roved the wide world (Starbucks, Quality Inn, work). The only one I am really (virtually) concerned about is the preferred network I can actually (in physical reality) access. But it's down, or my computer configuration is bolloxed. In which case, the message should read, "Your one and only hope of accessing the network IS not available" (ibid.).

 

While it is possible for software engineers to build in the capacity for choosing which of the above scenarios is active, this is likely not high on the list of "preferred" exigencies which the software must choose among in its binary path to problem solving, so the easier solution is to employ the easier route (cf. "Occam's Razor") to triage: ambiguous syntax. Most people don't notice their grammatical well-being is being polluted.

 

Hence the choice of Facebook linguistic engineers to employ the plural personal pronoun "they" when referring to a single "friend's" comment, like, or commercial plug.

 

As a culture, we nominate how important this is to future generations not through the protestations of a few lonely grammarians worrying a minor point late on a Friday night, but through common (though not always logical) usage.