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Cleo' date=' so you are legally able to homeschool and you're in Quebec? Why is it not so for others. Now I'm even more confused. :001_huh:[/quote']

 

Define 'legally' ;-)

 

Homeschooling is legal but the law is very vague. The govt wants to enforce very strict supervision measures, and we're resisting. Most of us choose to be underground, meaning we're not notifying school boards that we're homeschooling. The law does not say we have to notify, but sorta assumes that we do. Did I say the law was vague? :lol:

 

The law also says we need to provide an equivalent education to the school system, but does not define 'equivalent'. It used to be that courts would say 'equivalent' equals allowing someone to work one day. Now courts say it must be the exact same thing as what schools offer. Courts are changing their interpretation of the law.

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Historically speaking, a group of French Canadians were left on the wrong side of the border, when the Maine border got drawn. They kept their culture till the beginning of the XX century at the very least!

 

My dh grew up close to this area of Maine, and we have vacationed there. The francophone culture is still around. When you go into a shop the cashier always seems to know which language to use to address you. You can even play Bingo in French in one of the local communities!

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Define 'legally' ;-)

 

Homeschooling is legal but the law is very vague. The govt wants to enforce very strict supervision measures, and we're resisting. Most of us choose to be underground, meaning we're not notifying school boards that we're homeschooling. The law does not say we have to notify, but sorta assumes that we do. Did I say the law was vague? :lol:

 

The law also says we need to provide an equivalent education to the school system, but does not define 'equivalent'. It used to be that courts would say 'equivalent' equals allowing someone to work one day. Now courts say it must be the exact same thing as what schools offer. Courts are changing their interpretation of the law.

 

Oh wow! I don't blame you for being underground and I guess this is why the family mentioned in the article was keeping quiet about it too. Among the homeschool community, is there more concern about keeping it hidden, or is it rare for a neighbor or someone to bring it to the attention of authorities? I would imagine it might be like it was here in the 70's when families tried to live at a distance from others or kept their children inside during school hours. If you had to teach the exact same thing it would defeat the purpose of homeschooling. :tongue_smilie:

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My dh grew up close to this area of Maine, and we have vacationed there. The francophone culture is still around. When you go into a shop the cashier always seems to know which language to use to address you. You can even play Bingo in French in one of the local communities!

We lived in one of those little towns for 2.5 years. I now wonder if this is one of the reasons the community was so closed.

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Well, we certainly can't have acquisition of knowledge, no can we? :confused:

 

Well I'm not going to completely agree or disagree on this one. They are hoping to teach the kids how to learn, just like we're so proud of what homeschooling does. They have tons of projects in school, work with unit studies, it's a very Konos approach, if you ask me. I really don't diss the local way of teaching. The implementation of it varies wildly from one school to another, but the schools that 'got it' are doing pretty well if you ask me!

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We recently returned to the church I grew up in. It is in a well-to-do suburb with "good" schools. The high school has a very high graduation rate and most of the kids go on to college.

 

The jr. high and high school students can not read their Bibles. It isn't only that they can't understand what they read. They can't handle the names of people or places or words not part of today's vernacular. I assume that's because they never learned phonics.

 

I have honestly never heard of such a thing in my life. I have heard many, many people--including older people--mispronounce names in the Bible. Do you honestly think that not being able to properly pronounce a biblical name indicates that somebody doesn't know how to read well? Do you honestly think that anybody who was taught phonics could just easily read off every name in the Bible? I was taught to read by a really old-school phonics approach, and I still stumble over some biblical names.

 

I live in Detroit. At my church, the young people do the readings all the time. These are DPS students and, quite frankly, not really the most academically-inclined people I've never met; most will not go to college. But they can read.

 

There's just so many issues with this perspective. The U.S. routinely ranks behind European nations when it comes to literacy even though those nations tend to use the exact same "progressive" educational approaches that are so maligned. As has been pointed out over and over, phonics IS taught in the United States. It's taught all over. You would be hard-pressed to find a single classroom that didn't include formal phonics instruction. Heck, turn on PBS one morning or afternoon. There are three shows that are dedicated to teaching children phonetic awareness and phonics. Phonics IS how reading is being taught in the United States right now.

 

So if people really and truly are that illiterate, it's not because phonics isn't being taught; it's because phonics is failing them. Which is exactly why phonics was replaced in the first place. But, that hasn't been my experience, and from what I can tell, the balanced approach happening in most classrooms is producing appropriately literate citizens, certainly no less literate than previous generations.

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We lived in one of those little towns for 2.5 years. I now wonder if this is one of the reasons the community was so closed.

 

I wouldn't be surprised. We are (unfortunately) known to be a very closed community. We do welcome people warmly, but you'll never be a 'pure laine' (pure wool) and will always feel slightly the outsider.

 

Oh wow! I don't blame you for being underground and I guess this is why the family mentioned in the article was keeping quiet about it too. Among the homeschool community' date=' is there more concern about keeping it hidden, or is it rare for a neighbor or someone to bring it to the attention of authorities? ...[/quote']

 

We do tell people. I tell all my neighbours and if a house is sold, I'll welcome the new owners and slip it in the conversation that we homeschool. Our doctors also know we homeschool, and they are under the obligation to report any potential abuse. None of my doctors have reported us so far. In fact I had my obgyn (and what does she know about education?) tell me that she's fine with me homeschooling, she would even trust me with her own children, but that she would report the majority of her clients if they start homeschooling. Hmmm, ok... :confused:

 

My kids take part in competitive sports, where everyone knows we homeschool, including teachers, and CPS workers. Again, we feel safe doing that, because homeschooling is legal. The problem only starts when the school boards learn of it. So *they* are kept in the dark!

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I wouldn't be surprised. We are (unfortunately) known to be a very closed community. We do welcome people warmly, but you'll never be a 'pure laine' (pure wool) and will always feel slightly the outsider.

 

 

 

 

We have since left that part of Maine. We are now close to NB and the people on both sides of the boarder are very nice.

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Guest Dulcimeramy
I have honestly never heard of such a thing in my life. I have heard many, many people--including older people--mispronounce names in the Bible. Do you honestly think that not being able to properly pronounce a biblical name indicates that somebody doesn't know how to read well? Do you honestly think that anybody who was taught phonics could just easily read off every name in the Bible? I was taught to read by a really old-school phonics approach, and I still stumble over some biblical names.

 

I live in Detroit. At my church, the young people do the readings all the time. These are DPS students and, quite frankly, not really the most academically-inclined people I've never met; most will not go to college. But they can read.

 

There's just so many issues with this perspective. The U.S. routinely ranks behind European nations when it comes to literacy even though those nations tend to use the exact same "progressive" educational approaches that are so maligned. As has been pointed out over and over, phonics IS taught in the United States. It's taught all over. You would be hard-pressed to find a single classroom that didn't include formal phonics instruction. Heck, turn on PBS one morning or afternoon. There are three shows that are dedicated to teaching children phonetic awareness and phonics. Phonics IS how reading is being taught in the United States right now.

 

So if people really and truly are that illiterate, it's not because phonics isn't being taught; it's because phonics is failing them. Which is exactly why phonics was replaced in the first place. But, that hasn't been my experience, and from what I can tell, the balanced approach happening in most classrooms is producing appropriately literate citizens, certainly no less literate than previous generations.

 

twoforjoy, I must not be communicating clearly.

 

The last generation were taught with phonics and could pronounce the words in the Bible, including the names. I was there. I could read. My friends could read.

 

This generation are not being taught with phonics and cannot pronounce the words in the Bible. I am here. I can read. The kids can't.

 

Their parents tell me that they no longer have phonics instruction in school. The parents know whereof they speak, because they went to school with me 30 years ago and we all remember phonics instruction in first and second grade. Their children do not have this instruction. They memorize sight words instead of "sounding out" the words. They are given basal readers instead of living books. It is different now.

 

Elementary teachers in this very church and small town tell me that phonics instruction is outdated and disdained. (Some agree with the opinion, some don't, but teachers on both sides of the issue verify that the theories have changed.) The skills of the children give evidence that phonics instruction is not happening.

 

Putting this all together, I do have to conclude that people who know what phonics instruction is are confirming that the children no longer learn to read with phonics.

 

You say you have compelling evidence that phonics instruction is being used and is failing the children.

 

I stand with those who say that phonics instruction is not being correctly utilized and the children are worse readers than their parents were back when we studied phonics in school.

 

Elizabeth B. backs me up; she has seen the same thing.

 

So I guess for people on both sides, it is a matter of who we know, both past and present, our own personal experiences, and the studies we choose to believe.

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As has been pointed out over and over, phonics IS taught in the United States. It's taught all over.

It is not taught correctly. It hasn't been taught properly for many years, although it got much worse when whole language took over.

 

Here's an excellent, but long article.

 

 

Whole Language Lives On: The Illusion of Balanced Reading Instruction

 

A few excerpts:

 

Yet whole language persists, despite efforts by policymakers and reading experts to root it out. Today, though, it often disguises itself, not using the term "whole language" but, rather, wearing the fig leaf of "balanced" instruction. A lot of people who have a casual acquaintance with the research have persuaded themselves that balanced reading instruction means a little of this, a little of that. Take a cup of phonics from one cupboard, add a half-pint of whole language from the fridge, and the resulting blend will succeed with children while avoiding the battles and conflicts of the "reading wars." Everyone will be happy, and all will be well.

 

 

 

The problem is that it doesn't work that way. What's going on in many places in the name of "balance" or "consensus" is that the worst practices of whole language are persisting, continuing to inflict boundless harm on young children who need to learn to read. How and why that is happening—and how and why such practices are misguided and harmful—are what this report is about. In its pages, Louisa Cook Moats describes the whole-language approach; shows why it doesn't work and how it has been disproven by careful research; and explains why it nonetheless persists in practice and what should be done about that.

 

 

Here is what reading science actually tells us about effective literacy instruction:

 

 

  • All children need explicit, systematic instruction in phonics and exposure to rich literature, both fiction and nonfiction.

  • Although children need instruction in phonics in early reading development, even then, attention to meaning, comprehension strategies, language development, and writing are essential.

  • At all times, developing children's interest and pleasure in reading must be as much a focus as developing their reading skills.2

 

Note, though, that this prescription is not equivalent to an eclectic combination of whole language and phonics. Whole-language approaches by definition minimize or omit direct, systematic teaching of language structure (phoneme awareness, spelling patterns and rules, grammar, and so forth) in the name of preserving an unbroken focus on reading for meaning. To the onlooker, these points may sound trivial; in the classroom, however, such distinctions have profound consequences.

 

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I wouldn't be surprised. We are (unfortunately) known to be a very closed community. We do welcome people warmly, but you'll never be a 'pure laine' (pure wool) and will always feel slightly the outsider.

 

Sounds like Nova Scotia. We're known for our kindness and hospitality but if you move here you'll always be a CFA or Come-From-Away. CFAs (my mom was one) often tend to feel like the outsiders. I'm thinking places where families have firm roots that go back generations are often like that?

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More American children suffer long-term life-harm as a consequence of reading difficulties than from parental abuse(1), accidents, and all other childhood diseases and disorders combined. In purely economic terms, reading related difficulties cost more than the war on terrorism, crime, and drugs combined.

 

http://www.childrenofthecode.org/Tour/index.htm

 

I don't agree with all the Children of the Code people, but they do a good job highlighting the extent of the reading problem.

 

With well taught phonics, people can read every name in the Bible. I teach my inner city children up to that level if I stay around long enough! (We have moved 8 times in the last 9 years.) And, some of them get to that level quickly if they were not given sight words (my homeless LA kids) or are 1st graders and have not been exposed to sight words for years. I use the KJV with my remedial students and teach every single sound/spelling combination in the KJV and teach phonics to a 12th grade level.

 

The current programs used in schools are being billed as phonics by some schools and teachers, but everywhere we've lived, the children come home with lists of the Dolch sight words and have learned those first and then some minimal phonics. If you do a search for "Dolch sight words," you get 184,000 results and tons and tons of K and 1st grade classroom teachers using them. They also bring home leveled readers like the Fountas and Pinnell books and can only read those, not real books with real, non-sight words in them. (These books are designed to be mostly sight words.) I have yet to have a student who knew all their phonograms. Most know some phonics, but not all the phonograms and not well.

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How? I mean, we have school districts dropping kindergarten because they can't afford it; we certainly aren't moving towards free public preschool for every child, much less compulsory public preschool.

 

What, specifically, do you see that indicates we're moving in this direction?

 

There is much talk of adding 4K to the public schools in our state. Our compulsory age is 7.

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This phonics subthread makes me laugh, because we're not even talking about teaching English here. Phonics in French are quite a different beast, and researches that apply to English do not apply to French.

 

I know, I can't understand why people keep talking about (presumably English) phonics in this thread. I don't think it has anything to do with the OP. This Quebec homeschool issue is serious, and it seems like its appearance here on the boards is getting obscured by a phonics debate that really isn't related at all.

 

Cleo, thanks for all of your explanations.

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We do tell people. I tell all my neighbours and if a house is sold, I'll welcome the new owners and slip it in the conversation that we homeschool. Our doctors also know we homeschool, and they are under the obligation to report any potential abuse. None of my doctors have reported us so far. In fact I had my obgyn (and what does she know about education?) tell me that she's fine with me homeschooling, she would even trust me with her own children, but that she would report the majority of her clients if they start homeschooling. Hmmm, ok... :confused:

 

My kids take part in competitive sports, where everyone knows we homeschool, including teachers, and CPS workers. Again, we feel safe doing that, because homeschooling is legal. The problem only starts when the school boards learn of it. So *they* are kept in the dark!

 

Thank you for explaining, but aren't members of the school board involved in these sports activities and could get wind of it there? I'm guessing that how your ob/gyn handles it is pretty common - if they don't see it as a problem for your family, then it's not reported, but if they don't think you should be homeschooling, then they'd be likely to report. :001_huh: I guess that's what happened with this family. Who knows, maybe the neighbor had a completely separate complaint and used this against them. :confused:

 

Homeschoolers definitely need someone who can gently persuade legislators and school boards to loosen the reins rather than tightening them.

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I don't know enough about the family to pass judgement. I just pray that this case will not tighten up homeschooling legislation in Quebec even further. DH (who is Québécois) would really like us to move to Quebec, and to a certain extent, I'd like to as well. But I really don't like the idea of trying to homeschool there.

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I know, I can't understand why people keep talking about (presumably English) phonics in this thread. I don't think it has anything to do with the OP. This Quebec homeschool issue is serious, and it seems like its appearance here on the boards is getting obscured by a phonics debate that really isn't related at all.

 

Cleo, thanks for all of your explanations.

 

Ditto to both sentiments.

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I think it's funny how this LOOKS like a "hey the canadians are arguing!" thread based on the number of posts and pages….but it's a completely different story when you open it up and wander through. :laugh:

 

:lol: Canadians never argue, unless it's about the Constitution...

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I stumbled on this thread really late but...

 

Canadians, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and explanations! My husband, John, and I are seriously considering moving to Canada within the next 24 months. Since we home school, obviously this thread has been very relevant to my interests!

 

We're very attracted to Quebec, and we have incorporated French lessons in our son's curriculum. But, based on what I have read here, and in my research elsewhere, I don't think we will home school in Canada. Although, we will likely move to Saskatoon or Ottawa first, since it seems much less of a culture shock. At least Jackson has the hockey thing down, as he plays for a mite house team right now (Yes, Virginia, there is ice hockey in Texas.) :D

 

But anyway -- mostly, I just wanted to tell you how helpful this discussion has been.

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I stumbled on this thread really late but...

 

Canadians, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and explanations! My husband, John, and I are seriously considering moving to Canada within the next 24 months. Since we home school, obviously this thread has been very relevant to my interests!

 

We're very attracted to Quebec, and we have incorporated French lessons in our son's curriculum. But, based on what I have read here, and in my research elsewhere, I don't think we will home school in Canada. Although, we will likely move to Saskatoon or Ottawa first, since it seems much less of a culture shock. At least Jackson has the hockey thing down, as he plays for a mite house team right now (Yes, Virginia, there is ice hockey in Texas.) :D

 

But anyway -- mostly, I just wanted to tell you how helpful this discussion has been.

 

Homeschooling in Canada is typically very easy. The individual provinces all have their own standards and regulations, which range from nothing at all to basic reporting. In some provinces, there are even funds available for homeschooling families. This situation in Quebec is unique to Quebec, and should not really impact your thoughts on homeschooling in Canada unless you're looking to move to Quebec.

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This situation in Quebec is unique to Quebec, and should not really impact your thoughts on homeschooling in Canada unless you're looking to move to Quebec.

 

:iagree:

 

Don't let us Quebecers deter you from moving to Canada...

 

And I know quite a few Americans that still homeschool when they come here, and they are usually left alone. By virtue of being Americans, you're considered 'crazy' to start with! :lol: it gives you more rights.

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:iagree:

 

Don't let us Quebecers deter you from moving to Canada...

 

And I know quite a few Americans that still homeschool when they come here, and they are usually left alone. By virtue of being Americans, you're considered 'crazy' to start with! :lol: it gives you more rights.

 

:lol: And some of us are pretty dang proud of it :D

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:iagree:

 

Don't let us Quebecers deter you from moving to Canada...

 

And I know quite a few Americans that still homeschool when they come here, and they are usually left alone. By virtue of being Americans, you're considered 'crazy' to start with! :lol: it gives you more rights.

 

 

We're far from being dissuaded from moving to Canada (well, except the cold -- I will say that's a persuasive deterrent, lol). We're just considering moving to Saskatoon or Ottawa for a time before possibly settling in Quebec. Reason being, that for all the similarities between the U.S. and Canada, of course they are still different cultures and those differences are much more striking between TEXAS and QUEBEC. To put it mildly. :tongue_smilie:

 

I'm really attracted to Saskatoon because it is open to immigration, its economy is doing well, and I'm interested in a graduate program at the Uni. of Saskatchewan.

 

But Quebec is so beautiful and we are very much aligned with the values of the Quebecois. Namely, we are liberal, we firmly support secularism, support egalitarian values, and bilingualism. (Oh, and we love hockey. ;))

 

The home schooling question is not really pertinent to our decision right now (that's probably sacrilege on this board, lol), because we always intended to have him go back to public school. I'm a big supporter of public education, and Canada's schools are so much better than American schools. I'm actually impressed with much of Quebec's educational system, and if I moved there, it would be with the intent of having my son matriculate into their system.

 

Mostly, what I'm concerned about is how they will treat my son's home education HERE. Texas has virtually no standards -- for example, it doesn't even require that parents teach their children science. While we are electing to use a much more stringent curriculum than what this state requires, I do worry that Canadian school officials will not consider him to be on par, academically, with his peers.

 

I assume they would use some form of assessments or standardized testing to place him??

 

P.S. I agree that many Americans are loons! My husband and I intend to seek Canadian citizenship at some point. Maybe that will offset the crazy?? :D

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:lol: Canadians never argue, unless it's about the Constitution...

 

Or hockey...

 

We're far from being dissuaded from moving to Canada (well, except the cold -- I will say that's a persuasive deterrent, lol). We're just considering moving to Saskatoon or Ottawa for a time before possibly settling in Quebec. Reason being, that for all the similarities between the U.S. and Canada, of course they are still different cultures and those differences are much more striking between TEXAS and QUEBEC. To put it mildly. :tongue_smilie:

 

I'm really attracted to Saskatoon because it is open to immigration, its economy is doing well, and I'm interested in a graduate program at the Uni. of Saskatchewan.

 

P.S. I agree that many Americans are loons! My husband and I intend to seek Canadian citizenship at some point. Maybe that will offset the crazy?? :D

If it's cold you hate, then the place to move is the lower mainland of BC or Vancouver Island, which is what one CBC broadcaster used to refer to as "lotus land." Of course, you have to move far enough out from Vancouver so that you can afford to live there and you have to be willing to put up with rain.

 

Saskatoon is what I've always called the farm kids crossroads, but really it's very much a city. Coldwinters, but once you're used to it it can be a lot of fun. My dad grew up c. 40 miles north of Saskatoon and went to med school at the U of Sask (many years ago.) Actually, he did all 6 years of university there (he got into med school one year early; for many years people only needed 3 years toward a Bachelor's degree before being accepted into med school, and not just there, of course. Even when my sister was at UBC it was possible for top students to get in after only 3 years of an undergrad degree.)

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Homeschooling in Canada is typically very easy. The individual provinces all have their own standards and regulations, which range from nothing at all to basic reporting. In some provinces, there are even funds available for homeschooling families. This situation in Quebec is unique to Quebec, and should not really impact your thoughts on homeschooling in Canada unless you're looking to move to Quebec.

 

Yes! Here in Nova Scotia you register once a year and report once a year. I do a one page summary of what programs I'll be using for the registration and a one page report using the Dept. of Ed.'s own form which only asks for grades. I write down "Satisfactory" or "Exceeded Expectations" after each subject and the Dept. has been satisfied with that for the last 6 or 7 years.

 

PEI is even easier. I think it's a one time thing where you inform them you're homeschooling and you're good to go!

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Yes! Here in Nova Scotia you register once a year and report once a year. I do a one page summary of what programs I'll be using for the registration and a one page report using the Dept. of Ed.'s own form which only asks for grades. I write down "Satisfactory" or "Exceeded Expectations" after each subject and the Dept. has been satisfied with that for the last 6 or 7 years.

 

PEI is even easier. I think it's a one time thing where you inform them you're homeschooling and you're good to go!

Here in BC you register at the beginning of each year and then that's it. I love it! :)

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Here in BC you register at the beginning of each year and then that's it. I love it! :)
Nice--no progress reports or anything??? Can you use whatever you like?

 

The article was removed. I don't know why, but I can guess... it was promoting not reporting to the school boards...

 

Ok, how about this link?

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Home+school+hurdles/4864157/story.html

Thanks, this one worked!

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Nice--no progress reports or anything??? Can you use whatever you like?

 

No progress reports, testing, or inspection, and you can use whatever you want. :) Many people enroll in a distance education school which means more reports and curriculum restrictions, but with the benefit of recieving funding for each child. If you really want to know about all the homeschooling options in BC there is a good article here.

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No progress reports, testing, or inspection, and you can use whatever you want. :) Many people enroll in a distance education school which means more reports and curriculum restrictions, but with the benefit of recieving funding for each child. If you really want to know about all the homeschooling options in BC there is a good article here.

 

I think PEI is much the same except you only ever register once.

 

The reporting in NS is minimal. Just enough I think so the Dept. of ed. can say you report. They can technically challenge you and then you either have to have your child tested, submit a portfolio or have your child assessed by someone qualified to do so but I've never heard of that happening.

 

Some places in Canada are extremely easy to homeschool in.

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No progress reports, testing, or inspection, and you can use whatever you want. :) Many people enroll in a distance education school which means more reports and curriculum restrictions, but with the benefit of recieving funding for each child. If you really want to know about all the homeschooling options in BC there is a good article here.

 

Thanks! It's good to know my home province is so homeschool-friendly in case I ever move back (not that dh wants to, and wouldn't as long as his mother is alive--he can drive there in half a day to help her out from time to time and I'm all for it as she's 86 and her other son lives too far away to do that for her.)

 

I think PEI is much the same except you only ever register once.

 

The reporting in NS is minimal. Just enough I think so the Dept. of ed. can say you report. They can technically challenge you and then you either have to have your child tested, submit a portfolio or have your child assessed by someone qualified to do so but I've never heard of that happening.

 

Some places in Canada are extremely easy to homeschool in.

Good to know :).

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