How much control do you allow a 7th grader over curriculum?

[summer]

I get a lot of input from DD, but these days, too much. I wonder how much say is too much?

 

She wants to only do Keys to Algebra for Algebra. This is unacceptable. She says she never wants to do anything that is not a workbook..clearly unacceptable. Keys to Algebra is not a complete Algebra 1 program. She is actually very smart and good at academics and they generally come easy for her. So this is not about struggling.

 

How much say should I allow her in her curriculum? She is overall a good person so if I really lay down the law, she will go along with it. I am just trying to decide where it is reasonable to draw the line. Thanks!

[TraceyS/FL]

Mine doesn't have much say really. I let her pick from a few Math Programs, but she couldn't reject them all (without a good reason). She could pick from - TT, VT & HomeSat. She liked VT the best.

 

But overall, i'm in control - i'll work with her on electives, but otherwise she goes with it. She hasn't had a lot of input though over the years either. I can tell when she likes something or doesn't - so i'll change it then if it's not working for us.

 

Not much help - but i'd maybe say let her pick from 2 choices, and pick an elective on her own?!?!

[Tracey in TX]

If you feel she's not being reasonable with her preferences, offer her a selection of your favorites from each subject and then let her have the final vote (of course there is always VETO power!).

[Laura K (NC)]

My 7th grader pretty much does what I tell him, lol. I have a whole lot of reading and history books for each of the four-year periods in WTM so I do let my kids choose from an approved list (I put the approved books in a different bookcase and so they choose from them). My kids do get to choose their art and music participation to a certain extent. I advise certain things from time to time and they generally trust me and comply. For math, grammar, vocabulary, science, and religion I have total control. My 7th grader would complain no matter what math program I gave him, I think.

 

I give my high schooler a bit more freedom to choose when and what he will take, but I still control his textbook-y subjects this year (9th grade) and next. By the time he's scoping out colleges he'll know himself what he needs and we'll work together.

[Farmgirl70]

I am new here, but this is what we do (mine are 14, 13, and 11). Around this time of year, we have a conference. I ask them a few questions:

1. What are you interested in learning in the next year?

2. What do you think you may need to work on, whether you like it or not?

3. I also gather options for curriculum that I am planning on and if there is room for options, get their opinions on the various choices.

So, in the end, I choose. But I do try to take their input into consideration and I sometimes find that their reviews of curriculum have saved me money by avoiding things that will not work well for them. That said, they understand the need to learn certain things--especially the oldest, who realizes that she needs to cover certain things to go to college. I hope that through this process, they will eventually learn to make good decisions for themselves.

[EKS]

None. If he were to really hate something and it was obvious to me that it was not the right fit after a very good try I would consider replacing it. But he wouldn't have any say about the replacement either.

 

Does she struggle with copying from books in other academic areas? If she is generally compliant and bright academically then extreme distaste for an age appropriate skill (copying from a textbook for math, for example) might be a sign of an undiagnosed vision problem. Just a thought, probably way off track.

[Mrs Mungo]

My daughter is going into seventh and we've discussed her curricula in terms of "would you rather do Spanish or French?" or "what do you think of a math program with DVDs?" or "would you rather focus on this or that time period?" But she doesn't make any final decisions.

[Brindee]

We kind of discuss it as time goes by, so by the time I'm ordering curriculum, I pretty much know what they want out of what's available that could work for them.

 

My ds14 doesn't care. He'll use whatever we get for him and be fine. I try to get his input though, but he usually says, "It doesn't matter." So in his case, i wish he'd give MORE input.

 

My dd11 tells me when she likes or doesn't like something. I look over time how she's doing. Sometimes when she says she doesn't like something, it's after a hard week with it. Often in a couple of weeks she'll be fine with it again. So I take those things into consideration. She DID say she LOVES chemistry and could she PLEASE do Chemistry again next year? Ummm, sure honey, we can do that! :D (right now she says she wants to be a chemist. I'll support her in the endeavor!)

 

So they have input, and dh has input, but he doesn't REALLY care as long as it's helping them learn well. Although he DID look at the math program we got for ds for next year, he read about it and discussed it with ds, and they made the decision on that one. But normally I make the final decisions and everyone else seems fine with what I finalize on. Probably because I've done the research, given them choices, and thought a lot about it before buying. (thought, yeah, I've bombed in my choices a few times, for one reason or another) ;)

 

I'd make sure you know her reasoning on why she wants or doesn't want a certain thing. There may be something there that might need more follow-up--like EKS said, could be eyes, or SOMEthing. maybe not. But it's good for you both to look at it from all angles. She may just convince you she has a good point! :D

[Mandy in TN]

May I offer a compromise-

 

Math and components of English (grammar, spelling, building sentences, paragraphs, essays, etc.) are mastery subjects that it is your responsiblity to teach. Explain to your daughter that, while you value her opinion, as the adult responsible for her education the final decision regarding what is best for her must ultimately rest with you.

 

History, science, and literature are survey subjects. Even if you devoted your life to one of these and studied for your whole life, you would never know all there is to know or read all there is to read. Relax. Allowing her to feel empowered, may encourage her to study! If she wants to do PACES, LifePac, or CLE for history and science, it may result in less work and expense for you and a better homeschool atmosphere for you and your dd. Literature is tricky, because obviously you will never be able to read everything and obviously all books are not created equal. However, quality literature is not typically a workbook and I'm sure your dd knows this and will surely be understanding of this situation.

 

I am sure that it is frustrating now, but it really is wonderful that she has an opinion and will express it and stand behind it. Encourage her to think through her opinion and validate/ argue her case. Imagine how well this skill will serve her in the face of college peer pressure!

 

JMHO-

Mandy

[JFSinIL]

Not much - only regarding literature. I try to have a selection of books that I want a kid to read - some (like To Kill A Mockingbird or Animal Farm) are not up for negotiation, but in other cases I may allow a kid to skip a book they find truly boring (I for one, can barely stomach most Hemingway or Jack London.)

[summer]

Actually, I gave her a choice of algebra books. She has seen all her choices in person and said no way. I hate to say it this way, but she acts spoiled about it.

 

 

I absolutely cannot get her to read a book. I will assign things to her. I have a list. I have shelves of books I think are good books. She will claim that she will read it, but she never does. I am to the point of picking a book myself and making her sitdown in front of me and read while I watch her. I rarely have time to just sit and watch her read so she has yet to make it through one book.

 

Back to the algebra, she has seen and had the choice of Lials (both of them), Jacobs, BJU, and Glencoe. She previously was allowed to chose TT and I recently showed her Chalkdust. She has declared no to all of them.

 

I let her chose a foreign language and so far, she has tried and rejected within a lesson...Latin and French.

 

I finally put down my foot and told her that she WILL take a class at the homeschool store this fall..she picked Shakespeare.

 

She did like Easy Grammar and did well with it. She actually requested an extra year of Spelling Workout so she will be done with level F soon. She also likes Daily Grams and has never complained about that. She is upset that I selected Write Shop for the fall, but she complained about all the others I purchased and tried on her (Harcourt, Writing Adventures, etc). She likes Story of the World so she has read plenty of non-fiction books from the time periods of the first 2 books of SOTW (we have the originals and I think she likes Barbara Ann Johnson's voice). She likes the CD from Apologia General Science so things seem like they will be fine there.

 

I just feel like I am tired of her remarks like "moo-ooom" (she can say "mom" with many syllables) and "that is sooo public school-ish" which is the usual complaint, but she gives me others too.

 

We keep our curriculum at a bare minimum. I did "force" her to at least try the tennis lessons this spring and while she was crying and upset at the first, by the 4th, she was loving it and wanting more.

 

But I feel like we have made no progress in any sort of foreign language, we have not done writing in a year and a half, she never reads any sort of assigned reading-she seems mostly to just not like fiction, and now she is complaining over every math program I bring along.

[battlemaiden]

My upcoming seventh grader will have absolutely no say in his curriculum. He is always free to suggest something that he is interested in, but he understands that the final decision falls to dh and myself.

 

Jo

[Kate CA]

How much say should I allow her in her curriculum? She is overall a good person so if I really lay down the law, she will go along with it. I am just trying to decide where it is reasonable to draw the line. Thanks!

 

I am willing to listen to anything my children have to say, but I make any and all final choices with regards to curriculum. I would not allow my child to change the curriculum or decrease the difficulty of any of her subjects. I would certainly listen if she felt she was not learning the work with that particular curriculum, but she would not be allowed to do less work. :) I am the teacher and the mama. The mama listens, but the teacher decides what to teach. :)

[battlemaiden]

I am willing to listen to anything my children have to say, but I make any and all final choices with regards to curriculum. I would not allow my child to change the curriculum or decrease the difficulty of any of her subjects. I would certainly listen if she felt she was not learning the work with that particular curriculum, but she would not be allowed to do less work. :) I am the teacher and the mama. The mama listens, but the teacher decides what to teach. :)

 

Okay, you said that much nicer. Our policies are the same.

 

Jo

[KidsHappen]

I tell my dc the subjects that they must learn and then allow them to pick from the curriculum I have. Of course, I only have choices available that I find acceptable. If they find that their original choice is not a good fit then we reconsider. I find that they have all picked the some of same programs at some point in time. All of them have used and like Easy Grammar. The older two have used and liked Analytical Grammar. At the elementary level they all used and liked Mastering Mathematics. All have liked History of US. Most of them choose Latin as there foreign language and have liked Getting Started with Latin.

 

If I find a child that is having a hard time picking a program or just refusing to do one, then I put my foot down and tell them if they don't pick and implement a program, I am going to choose for them and they might not like my choice. I personally find it hard to learn from something I don't like and I find it easier to get them to learn and enjoy if they like the program so that is my approach.

 

I would let her finish the Key to program and then see where to go from there. She may have more confidence by then and be better able to gauge how she would do in a different program. Put your foot down though and make it clear that she will pick and complete one of them. If doesn't choose then you will. Good luck. I know how hard it can be to get a stubborn child to actually do school work. If you can't get her to do this them maybe consider putting her in school.

[Bee]

Like Kidshappen,I tell dd what subjects she must learn,according to our state regulations.I ask her opinion on how she would like to learn each subject.For example;would you rather use textbooks or workbooks,literature anthology vs. whole books.Sometimes I choose the overall theme of a particular subject and ask her what she would like to learn about that subject and her opinion on what I choose to get to help us learn that.Sometimes I just decide that I like a particular resource and I want to know more and the children can participate as I learn.Dd wants to learn about the Middle Ages for history next year so I bought some Teaching Company cd's.Neither of my children will probably get the full benefit of listening to them at the ages they are (12 and 7) but they'll get something.Sometimes I pick a resource knowing full well it might not work and have a back-up plan in place,just in case,like using R&S for math next year but going back to the Key to Math series if we decide we don't like it.Sometimes I pick a resource,like R&S for grammar next year because dd request something challenging but doesn't know exactly what she wants.I've told her she may not like it's style but it will be difficult if that is what she thinks she wants.

[RoughCollie]

My kids do not choose curricula.

 

If they "hate" a certain book, I will endeavor to find another one they might like better after they have completed the book we have. For instance, they hated Wordly Wise, so I switched to another vocabulary program for 9th grade. If they hate it, oh well.

 

They hated G.U.M., so I switched to Rod & Staff for a year, which they also hated. Next year, they will be using A Beka Grammar and Composition and I told them I don't care whether they hate it or not.

 

They hated Saxon, so I switched to Life of Fred. I'm not thrilled with Saxon, so if *I* don't like Life of Fred, I will switch to a math program I like better.

 

Really, my kids just don't like vocabulary, grammar and math, regardless of the program.

[EKS]

I absolutely cannot get her to read a book. I will assign things to her. I have a list. I have shelves of books I think are good books. She will claim that she will read it, but she never does. I am to the point of picking a book myself and making her sitdown in front of me and read while I watch her. I rarely have time to just sit and watch her read so she has yet to make it through one book.

 

Not to harp on this, but not wanting to read for long periods (as is required for reading a book, unlike for doing a worksheet) is another red flag for developmental vision problems. Here's a link:

 

http://www.covd.org

[Kelli in TN]

Mine has no input whatsoever.

 

I am not running a democracy here!:D

[WTMindy]

I get a lot of input from DD, but these days, too much. I wonder how much say is too much?

 

She wants to only do Keys to Algebra for Algebra. This is unacceptable. She says she never wants to do anything that is not a workbook..clearly unacceptable. Keys to Algebra is not a complete Algebra 1 program. She is actually very smart and good at academics and they generally come easy for her. So this is not about struggling.

 

How much say should I allow her in her curriculum? She is overall a good person so if I really lay down the law, she will go along with it. I am just trying to decide where it is reasonable to draw the line. Thanks!

 

If I thought my dd's intent was to do the minimun or to get out of doing hard work, I would give her NO say. If I thought she was capable of making some good decisions, I would give her a little say. However, my plan for 7th grade is to not give much choices.

[classicallyrelaxedmomof3]

I am really surprised at all of your answers.

 

First my oldest son did Key to Algebra for algebra 1 and then went on to do Teaching Textbooks Algebra 2 and is now about to be in Pre-Calc.

 

I have given my kids input in choosing their courses all along. They both plan on going to college, so they know what they need to cover to do that. I tell them they need to take a math, science, and english every year but what kind is up to them.

 

My oldest is graduated. My daughter is just turning 16...she is doing algebra 1 right now. She started TT but is not getting algebra so we are going to purchase Keys To and see if that helps. I am also going to look into the Life Of Fred too. For science she has picked Biology but is on the look out for a high school level zoology. For history she has did History Odyssey level 2 but is now doing Social Civics. She does not like History but most colleges she has looked at require atleast one year of social studies and we talked about it and I told her she needs to know about how our government works and so she is doing the 1/2 credit government, 1/2 credit economics. For english she is doing poetry (right now she is devouring every poetry book she can get!), Shakespeare (was working through his complete works on her own with watching a movie of the play or theatrical version of each and sometimes reading a book adaptation of it...we are now looking at the Lightning Lit Shakespeare too), and writing. She has recently finished world lit, british medieval lit, and easy grammar plus. She is realizing she needs more vocabulary help, so we are looking for a program for that. She is also almost done with her "Intro to Business" course.

 

I am not saying your ways are wrong. Just trying to put out there a different point of view.

 

Cathi

[mcconnellboys]

I think you already realize that the things she's asking for are not reasonable, so if she can't make reasonable, acceptable suggestions, then I think you must veto them. If she wants to choose an appropriate, acceptable text for algebra work, however, then that would be another matter. Why don't you set her to researching some of the better texts or programs online?

 

My older son was becoming so non-compliant in the use of - and just plain weary of - the texts that we'd used for many years by the time he was in eighth grade, that I completely changed direction for ninth grade, offering him his choice of online, correspondence, on-campus or other live class situations. *I* chose the topics that would be covered for the year (i.e., history, science, etc.) and then solicited his input on what sort of programming would be used. He made his class choices and this was brought up any time he tried to complain about them, LOL. He returned to private school this year and we again allowed him to make his class choices, within the framework of what he has to take for graduation. That has already been accomplished for next year, as well.

 

I think you definitely want them to have some input as they get older. But they may not be ready to chart their entire course. Doing an algebra program that won't prepare you for the work you'll need to accomplish in Algebra II, geometry, etc. is sort of a waste of a year - so why even go there? If you want to go to college and most colleges are moving toward requiring 3 years of foreign language for admission, then why would you ignore that requirement or take only one year, then drop it? Will you be able to pick up a year two program after skipping a year? For some the answer may be yes, but I would think that for most it's no. Unfortunately, colleges require certain work to be accomplished for admissions, so there is a framework that you have to work within if you want to go that route.