Wow...As if our current state of educational affairs isn't bad enough?

[Haiku]

I can see a reason for literacy and numeracy tests. What else are they testing?

 

They are trying to test thinking skills, which imo can't be done on a standardized test. The way they do this is to try to "cleverly" design trick questions that require the student to try to guess what the test maker wants the answer to be. As test writers, we were taught how to write trick questions, vague questions, nebulous questions, etc. And they all had to be racially and culturally sensitive.

 

Tara

[TXMomof4]

Because tests really don't measure what you know. They measure how well you take the test. Therefore, there is a lot of focus on test-taking strategies.

 

I worked for a textbook developer in my pre-kid days. At one point, an entire 8th grade science "curriculum" was nothing but a test-prep manual. That's it. No textbook, just a test-prep manual and lab book.

 

Tara

 

We used a VA for the older kids this year and I was very disappointed in only one aspect. They had an entire subject of Test Readiness and their live sessions with their teacher every week were strictly to prepare them for the test.

The rest of the curriculum was fantastic, and I taught it with out any interference so it was worth the hour a week with the teacher.

 

Honestly (don't tell anyone) we skipped the test readiness and just marked it complete. My kids read and comprehend well. They get it. I wasn't wasting my time having them read below grade level and anwering ridiculous questions when there is real work to be done.

 

ETA: They both took standardized tests for the first time this year and did fine without prep from me. I didn't harm them in my stubborness.

[mom2scouts]

I think some of the pressure to keep the school day long is to keep the kids occupied while parents are at work.

 

:iagree: A local school levy just failed for the second or third time. A family I know is going crazy on Facebook about how everybody will be selling their houses and *need* to quit their jobs because 5 hour school days and lack of bus service will ruin their lives.

[Stacy in NJ]

how wastefully they are spent?

 

Example: The new $578 million dollar high school in a bankrupt school district. Link: http://abcnews.go.com/WN/public-school-los-angeles-named-robert-kennedy-expensive/story?id=11462095

 

Oh, I honestly believe their bottom line is more importatnt. I've lived here my enitire life and over the years I have supported almost every single tax increase and measure to cut funding (including library closures) that has come down the lines, but this is absurd. There are other ways to find the money.

[KrissiK]

The original post struck me very hard that way.

 

Also, I know that there have been a lot of false alarms about the budget, as others have noted, where schools and safety officers were threatened to get people to cough up. However, the situation now is so much more deep than that that the argument doesn't really apply. It's no longer the case that the money is 'somewhere'. It's more the case that there just isn't enough; in fact, there is so much less than enough that it is terrifying. (It does fry me that there was so much crying wolf about this in years past when that was not true.) Still, we are people here, though Californians, and we need prayer right now. Badly. We have a pretty incompetent legistlature, and no good choices.

 

I'm sorry, I don't agree that there's not enough money. Well, no, maybe I take that back. Maybe there isn't enough money. There's not enough money because the California govt. is taxing businesses so hard that they are moving out of state, taking their jobs with them and tax revenue with them. And this state is becoming filled with consumers of said tax dollars. I live in a small town that where I go to the pediatrician just about every patient there hands over a Medi-Cal card. I watch them do it. And, yes, we do have an incompetent legislature, but who voted them in?

[Stacy in NJ]

People have been told for so long that they are not responsible for educating their children that they don't know how to respond. Well, actually they do know how to respond: demand more of a bad thing (or mediocre thing - depending).

 

Are these people really so brainwashed that they can't conceive of their kids learning outside of school?

In the interest of full disclosure, I think school days should be shorter and there should be less fluff in schools. So I'm not at all appalled by this idea.

 

Tara

[SonshineLearner]

Well, I actually think it'd be better. Do school for education; do daycare to take care of children while parents work. Public school should be to educate children, not be childcare. So, school Tues-Fri would be less busses etc...Take care of "What Mondays do we actually HAVE school?" What about giving reading lists of suggestions for the Library Reading contests that are actually productive. Encourage parents to be involved with actually educating their children.

 

I could see actually putting the school year together, totally different than they do. I think that to be productive, we need to start thinking outside the box, instead of in it.

 

:)

[Jamee]

I'd agree that you can't just keep going into deficits or expect that the money will come from somewhere.

 

On the other hand, I think most districts spend money very unwisely.

 

 

I can totally see this! DH is getting new math books for next year. With them, he's recieved a TON of unnecessary stuff. All the manipulatives--that they already have--could have led to some savings. Then, he found boxes of overhead materials! Sure he has an overhead, but doesn't use it because he has a smart board--which he loves.;) But, the teachers weren't consulted, so far as he can tell, with what they needed and didn't. Think of the savings had they not ordered all these unnecessary materials alone.

[Stacy in NJ]

Instead of testing on content which most state test do, we could use IQ tests instead. They are NOT content specific. Of course they won't tell you how well teachers are presenting content, but they will tell you almost exactly how well academically any particular individual is likely to perform long term. NO test prep is required or possible for an IQ test. Of course, this is politically IMPOSSIBLE.

 

In NY and NJ all students entering Catholic high schools take a test that is part content and part IQ. This test determines whether they will be accepted to the more competitive Catholic schools or not.

 

You don't think test writers could do a better job? Obviously it is not possible to have a panel of testers tour the country and hold personal conversations with every school student, but surely it is possible to do a better job? When hubby was teaching, he used to be really frustrated with the teaching to the test he had to do, but one item on the test was greetings and leave taking routines (this was for a language.) That is a sensible thing to put on a test.

 

Rosie

[Aggie]

I am witnessing first hand the lack of education in my district. I run a Brownie girl scout troop (2nd & 3rd grade), and every time we work on a badge that requires basic math or writing I have to turn into a teacher. I am amazed their inability to read, write, and do basic math. For instance this past week we were writing a get well card for one of the girls, not 1 (except my dd) spelled every word right. They were writing sentences such as "get wel son" OR "we mis yu" :001_huh:. And don't get me started on math :glare:.

 

IME, this comes from "kid-speak" in elementary...having students journal in K, 1st, and 2nd when they haven't been taught the skills they need. There is no wrong way to spell, just spell it like it sounds. :glare:

 

 

(bolding mine)

 

Sorry, but I find this who snippet laughable, but especially the bolded part. This guy seriously is questioning how his kids will learn if they aren't in school? People seriously think their kids will be cheated out of an education if they are in school for 20 fewer days? Are these people really so brainwashed that they can't conceive of their kids learning outside of school?

 

Honestly, if these parents are really so concerned about their kids' educations, maybe ... just maybe ... oh, no, it couldn't be ... well, could they? ... just maybe? ... help their kids at home?

 

I mean, they don't even have to full-on homeschool ... they could just ... provide their kids with some resources ... and spend some time with them on those resources.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, I think school days should be shorter and there should be less fluff in schools. So I'm not at all appalled by this idea.

 

Tara

 

 

 

People have been told for so long that they are not responsible for educating their children that they don't know how to respond. Well, actually they do know how to respond: demand more of a bad thing (or mediocre thing - depending).

 

:iagree: It is very sad that people don't believe they can teach their K-er or 1st grader. What if we cut K from the budget? Expect parents to teach some skills.

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm sorry, I don't agree that there's not enough money. Well, no, maybe I take that back. Maybe there isn't enough money. There's not enough money because the California govt. is taxing businesses so hard that they are moving out of state, taking their jobs with them and tax revenue with them. And this state is becoming filled with consumers of said tax dollars. I live in a small town that where I go to the pediatrician just about every patient there hands over a Medi-Cal card. I watch them do it. And, yes, we do have an incompetent legislature, but who voted them in?

 

No, that's not why. It's the sudden, huge drop in property values that has tanked the property tax base, coupled with the stock market losses in 2008 and 2009 that stopped capital gains taxes cold in their tracks. The state has a huge, unprecedented, short term, significant revenue problem, and that is ON TOP OF the problems you mentioned, and RECENT and SUDDEN and VERY VERY LARGE.

[Rosie_0801]

They are trying to test thinking skills, which imo can't be done on a standardized test. The way they do this is to try to "cleverly" design trick questions that require the student to try to guess what the test maker wants the answer to be. As test writers, we were taught how to write trick questions, vague questions, nebulous questions, etc. And they all had to be racially and culturally sensitive.

 

Tara

 

 

No offense, but I was snoring before I finished reading your paragraph. :rolleyes:

 

I'm fine with being racially and culturally sensitive, but messing with kids' heads is the best way to find out what they know? Sure. :glare:

 

This might be a dumb comment, but if you can't test something on a standardised test, don't bother trying...

 

Instead of testing on content which most state test do, we could use IQ tests instead. They are NOT content specific. Of course they won't tell you how well teachers are presenting content, but they will tell you almost exactly how well academically any particular individual is likely to perform long term. NO test prep is required or possible for an IQ test. Of course, this is politically IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Interesting idea. I'm not sure what information of use that would provide though. My immediate thought is that that standardised tests are used to find out which teachers to reprimand, so this wouldn't work. Perhaps I am being cynical though...

 

Rosie

[Haiku]

 

I'm fine with being racially and culturally sensitive

 

It's nearly impossible to write a test that's racially and culturally neutral, unfortunately. I didn't really understand that until I adopted some older children from another culture.

 

This might be a dumb comment, but if you can't test something on a standardised test, don't bother trying...

 

Agreed.

 

That said, I am giving the kids the CAT-E in two weeks because I am tired of spending my money on portfolio reviews that tell me NOTHING about how well the kids are doing. If I have to pay to find out nothing about my kids' performance, I might as well take the cheaper of the two routes, eh? :D

 

Tara

[Rosie_0801]

It's nearly impossible to write a test that's racially and culturally neutral, unfortunately. I didn't really understand that until I adopted some older children from another culture.

 

Oh, for sure. I've been hanging out with a bunch of cultural differences today. :D

Trying to make tests neutral is worthy even though you can't achieve it. You can do better or worse and better is, well, better than worse!

 

 

That said, I am giving the kids the CAT-E in two weeks because I am tired of spending my money on portfolio reviews that tell me NOTHING about how well the kids are doing. If I have to pay to find out nothing about my kids' performance, I might as well take the cheaper of the two routes, eh? :D

 

:D Indeed.

 

The world is a weird place. It seems so much effort is put into avoiding the actual living of it. Says me, talking to imaginary friends via technology. :tongue_smilie:

 

Rosie