Transitioning from WWE to public school

[truebluexf]

I don't plan on this, but every now and then DH thinks the kids should be in school instead of at home. We're in the last half of WWE2 with DS right now. My big fear is that if he went to school now, 4th grade in the fall, he would be completely lost when it comes to writing because we are following such a different method. How do kids do with this? I don't think it will actually happen, but if it came down to it, I don't want him to struggle. I have WS3 here in the house and I was thinking of starting it next year along with WWE3 (or it's methods, not necessarily the workbook.)

[twins05]

I have this thought in the back of my head, too, even though I know I shouldn't. :001_smile:

 

My ds8 and I have worked through many of the exercises in WS2 this year along with FLL2 and WWE2. When we do a lesson from WS2, I cut back on FLL that week. Also, I often write a "model" for him using his sentences, and then he copies the final draft. This is how Jessie Wise introduces composition writing at the end of FLL2, and it really seems to put my son at ease. For the second half of 2nd grade, I've also asked my ds8 to write one brief friendly letter per week (to a friend or family member). This "extra writing" rarely leads to frustration. I think it's manageable for him and puts my mind a little more at ease just in case PS is in his future.

 

The only other thing I would add is that WS3 is designed for the student to work on their own, while WS2 is designed for the parent to teach/work directly with the student.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Having tutored in the local area...I wouldn't worry about it a bit. You'd be surprised at how little they do in ps and what they do accomplish, how low the standards are (not state, but classroom). I have yet to be impressed from a single pser in our area. If you can accomplish complete sentence, properly punctuated and have an idea about paragraph, you're good.

[FO4UR]

I've had the thought of "what if we had to do ps next year" and my conclusion is that I want to work through the summer to get as much WWE in as possible before they are hit with the ps "writing instruction.";)

 

I don't think we'll be doing ps, but my worries are the opposite. I fear they would stagnate or back-peddle on the work we've done at home while in school.

[Sevilla]

The biggest struggle would be in the amount of 'creative writing' that would be expected. If you want to try and familiarize him with what the public schools are doing for writing, I would grab this series as it matches up pretty well: Write Source

[robsiew]

The biggest struggle would be in the amount of 'creative writing' that would be expected. If you want to try and familiarize him with what the public schools are doing for writing, I would grab this series as it matches up pretty well: Write Source

 

I agree with this after talking to ps parents here. Not just creative, but original writing. 4th graders are doing 5 paragraph essays here. My 4th grader will finish WWE4 this year. He writes nice narrations in history and science, but we haven't really even started studying paragraphs. This is the one area I would shudder at if my kids had to go to PS. The number one area of concern with parents in this district (private included) is the amount of writing the kids are required to do. It's sad. Kids are told they need "remedial" work and they are only in 2nd grade. I even had one parent think her child had a learning disability because he couldn't do the writing expected. No wonder we have kids graduating that can't write anything.

[truebluexf]

Yeah, it's not that I'm impressed with the stuff at PS, it's that he would have to write a lot more. He doesn't enjoy writing, and is still on dictation of a couple sentences, kwim? I think he would die if he had to write a whole paper LOL! If I told DH I thought he was "behind" then we'd have a problem lol. And again it's not that I think he is behind, but that I think he is being taught so differently that if he had to go to school, it would be culture shock.

[truebluexf]

Does Write Source hold their hand and go step by step? It's hard to tell online, the first sample I see is page 242 LOL. I like how Writing Strands is written to the student. What does SWB recommend in the new WTM?

[JennyD]

The biggest struggle would be in the amount of 'creative writing' that would be expected. If you want to try and familiarize him with what the public schools are doing for writing, I would grab this series as it matches up pretty well: Write Source

 

Thanks for this.

[mrs.m]

You might give these a try:

http://www.sfreading.com/resources/ghb.html

[....]

If you listen to SWB's audio lectures on writing, she talks about the ps approach to writing and what professors see later down the road. There are very specific reasons why TWTM maps out writing the way it does.

[Penelope]

I used to worry about this a little. Now that we are finishing up WWE3, I don't anymore. WWE doesn't give a lot of direct instruction on paragraphs compared to some other books, but it absolutely does work on paragraph formation. Topic sentence with supporting sentences, different types of paragraphs, well-formed grammatically correct sentences: it's really all in there. :)

 

We have alternated WWE3 with some other things for variety. A little Writing Tales (which is similar to WWE in that it is all retellings), a little Writing Strands. We also do additional written narrations; TWTM recommends several narrations a week so WWE only covers a couple of those.

 

If I had to put my child in school I know the increased writing would still be an adjustment. If I had the extra time I'd probably do some writing prompts over the summer, and maybe a book report or two. :tongue_smilie: So he would know what one was. :D

[truebluexf]

Thanks. I don't think it will come to that, but DH gets on kicks and sometimes I just don't want to fight about it anymore. Honestly, we don't live in the best school district so I have a good argument to keep him home. We weren't looking for schools when we moved, bc, well, we have always homeschooled lol!

 

We should be doing more writing in our other work, yes, but we have had quite a ride this year health-wise so some things weren't harped on as much as the could be. That said, he's an avid reader and that alone should be helpful!! We plan SOTW1 for next year, so adding in narrations, etc from that throughout the week should make a big difference. I'm toying with a combo of that and maybe adding in Writing Strands for some other type of practice. I'm hoping next year will be more stable. :P

[....]

If you add in notebooking across all subjects (like she describes in TWTM), it adds a LOT of writing. I posted in another thread that once we started the notebooking, my kids writing grew in leaps.

[truebluexf]

I need to get the new book. I lent the old one to a friend and never got it back lol. Tried to get it at the library today and they didn't have it. :(

[Crimson Wife]

Does Write Source hold their hand and go step by step? It's hard to tell online, the first sample I see is page 242 LOL. I like how Writing Strands is written to the student. What does SWB recommend in the new WTM?

 

I'm not familiar with Write Source, but one program accessible to a 4th grader that does hold the student's hand and teach him/her step by step how to write paragraphs is The Paragraph Book series from EPS. You don't need the TM as it's geared for classroom use.

[blessedmom3]

The biggest struggle would be in the amount of 'creative writing' that would be expected. If you want to try and familiarize him with what the public schools are doing for writing, I would grab this series as it matches up pretty well: Write Source

 

 

:iagree:

 

WS is one of the best books to prepare the kids for PS writing ( and in general for writing , can be used for homeschool too)

 

After homeschooling my son for K-2 a la TWTM , I decided to put my son in PS last month. Not sure about 4th grade , but for second grade they are looking for:

-proper sentence structure with a correct punctuation for 2nd grade , indented paragraph , correct spelling of most words used , a lot of descriptive words , a beginning , middle and ending and at least 2 paragraphs at the end of second grade. I was surprised how much they were asking ... Maybe my son's school and/or class is a very good one comparatively wit other PS ? Not sure . We used WWE and he did not have any preparation for all that writing. In the last 10 days before starting school , I used WS to teach him the main things , i.e. indenting, a lot of adjectives , beginning , ending , etc. Now he is doing great , but I am still continuing to use WWE as I don't agree with throwing the kids to "dive" in writing before teaching them how to swim yet . :)

[boscopup]

If you listen to SWB's audio lectures on writing, she talks about the ps approach to writing and what professors see later down the road. There are very specific reasons why TWTM maps out writing the way it does.

 

:iagree: I'm going this route for writing because I think it's more developmentally appropriate for my son (and he did the typical school writing in private school last semester - I have a journal full of writing prompts with nothing else after them).

 

I can't see a reason to use a writing method I completely disagree with just for the tiny chance that my son would have to go back to school within the next few years. Wouldn't that miss the whole point of SWB's method?

 

If I did need to send him to school, I'd brush up on writing prompts and other such things over the summer beforehand, I guess.

[truebluexf]

I can't see a reason to use a writing method I completely disagree with just for the tiny chance that my son would have to go back to school within the next few years. Wouldn't that miss the whole point of SWB's method?

s.

 

OH I totally agree. However, if I could introduce something else on the side, just in case, that wouldn't be too painful...it would make me feel better. DH was in a mood the other day and was like, I want him to go to school, we did, let's try it for the rest of the year. Um, what?!?! :confused: I curbed that one lol. Adding one of these in, even a couple times a month for something fun/different, might be just enough to keep him from sinking if thrown in. I don't think he has ever written a paragraph in his life. I feel really behind, SWB-approved or not.:tongue_smilie:

[cjbeach]

I worry about this same thing all of the time. My son is in fourth so I always note what other are doing in ps/private.

I have a friend with a child in private school who was stressing about the major composition he had to write last night (4th grade). Another friend's 4th grader had 10 books reports due this year. Our neighbor in public school, 4th grade, had a 11 page autobiography due which he was given almost a month to write.

It makes me crazy to think about it, to compare.

 

I did recently have my doors blown off by a bunch of public school children. We sat in a group making posters one day and the division of schooled/homeschooled kids was pretty equal. The homeschoolers were struggling - big time (in spelling/reading/writing). It was upsetting.

I used it as a self-check (to calm myself down mainly) and pulled out our state standards to make sure we were on target.

[truebluexf]

Yikes, that's not good! I know my kids are ahead in reading (DS has read I think 3 Lemony Snicket books this week and just started Harry Potter today and is on page 66, lol), ok in spelling, but DS would be "behind" in writing. DD1 is a natural writer...I don't anticipate her being "behind" at any point, probably, but she is only in first grade. However, she already writes more than DS ever did. I think I may pull out Writing Strands soon, maybe even for 'fun' over the next couple months of school we have left and try a lesson or two. I also like Writing Tales. I think it could be useful to use one of those alongside WWE3 principles with SOTW next year, so we get a little of both. I still like SWB's method, but I don't want my son to feel behind either, even amongst his friends.

 

Now that said, I'll never forget this past September when our neighbor's son came over to play (he was 5th grade, DS 3rd) and they were playing a dice game that required score keeping, and his friend asked DH or I to keep score, "bc the numbers were so big." I looked at it, showed it to DS, and he was able to do it all in his head. :tongue_smilie:

 

I also think FLL3 is ahead of ps, isn't it? I don't remember doing diagramming until middle school!!

[robsiew]

I worry about this same thing all of the time. My son is in fourth so I always note what other are doing in ps/private.

I have a friend with a child in private school who was stressing about the major composition he had to write last night (4th grade). Another friend's 4th grader had 10 books reports due this year. Our neighbor in public school, 4th grade, had a 11 page autobiography due which he was given almost a month to write.

It makes me crazy to think about it, to compare.

 

I did recently have my doors blown off by a bunch of public school children. We sat in a group making posters one day and the division of schooled/homeschooled kids was pretty equal. The homeschoolers were struggling - big time (in spelling/reading/writing). It was upsetting.

I used it as a self-check (to calm myself down mainly) and pulled out our state standards to make sure we were on target.

 

I think sometimes classical home schooled kids look "behind" in the grammar years. I think it has to do with what we concentrate on and when we teach things. Our curriculum often has a different scope and sequence than that of the PS.

 

Also, many parents choose to put off formal academics until their child is older than the "norm" for PS. My guess is, in the end, children who have been given one-on-one attention and have been really **taught** the basics and beyond will come out ahead. My kids would blow the socks off of any PS kid when it comes to what they know in history and science, can dictate paragraphs... but they can't write an original 5 paragraph essay right now to save their life! :D

 

Those writing assignments you mention are just craziness. Let's take a look in 8 years and see where those kids are... I'm guessing their work will look similar to what it does now with little growth because the foundation wasn't laid. :001_huh:

[truebluexf]

Wouldn't it be nice if this board had a "like" button like Facebook? :lol I like your post, Robyn. :D But since he'll be in 4th grade next year, I still might mix it up a little! ;)

[Crimson Wife]

After homeschooling my son for K-2 a la TWTM , I decided to put my son in PS last month. Not sure about 4th grade , but for second grade they are looking for:

-proper sentence structure with a correct punctuation for 2nd grade , indented paragraph , correct spelling of most words used , a lot of descriptive words , a beginning , middle and ending and at least 2 paragraphs at the end of second grade. I was surprised how much they were asking ... Maybe my son's school and/or class is a very good one comparatively wit other PS ? Not sure .

 

Are you STILL beating that dead horse? My goodness lady, you don't know when to stop. Look, I'm glad that PS is working out for your family, but for the love of Pete already, will you just quit it with your $0.02 about how you believe PS is SOOOOOO superior to HS?

[ZeldaRules]

Maybe you could use NANOWRIMO to write a story/novel. They have lesson plans for lower elementary, upper elementary, middle school and high school. The contest was last November, but all the lesson plans are there. I saved all the files on my NookColor and plan to do this with my 1st grader in the summer. I'll print the sheets for him to fill out, but the lesson plans I can just read on the Nook.

 

http://ywp.nanowrimo.org/le_curriculum

 

Good Luck!

 

Vicki

[johnandtinagilbert]

:iagree:

 

WS is one of the best books to prepare the kids for PS writing ( and in general for writing , can be used for homeschool too)

 

After homeschooling my son for K-2 a la TWTM , I decided to put my son in PS last month. Not sure about 4th grade , but for second grade they are looking for:

-proper sentence structure with a correct punctuation for 2nd grade , indented paragraph , correct spelling of most words used , a lot of descriptive words , a beginning , middle and ending and at least 2 paragraphs at the end of second grade. I was surprised how much they were asking ... Maybe my son's school and/or class is a very good one comparatively wit other PS ? Not sure . We used WWE and he did not have any preparation for all that writing. In the last 10 days before starting school , I used WS to teach him the main things , i.e. indenting, a lot of adjectives , beginning , ending , etc. Now he is doing great , but I am still continuing to use WWE as I don't agree with throwing the kids to "dive" in writing before teaching them how to swim yet . :)

My area "wants" all of those things, too. The problem is they don't actually offer writing or grammar instruction and expect the kids to glean proper structure from all the 3 paragraph stories they offer and a few reminders about capitalization and puntuation. So far as spelling, although they want every word spelled correctly, that doesn't happen either. Since they have no understanding of phonics or spelling rules, I see a TON of guess work and early phonetical (fonetikl) spelling. It isn't working for any of the students I see.

 

I've had ps kids from all levels of learning in front of me (b/c of tutoring and other activities I teach in like Boy Scouts, church, neighborhood kids staying here during their ps breaks), so I wanted to pipe in, while they expect each of those things and do expect these great reports, the kids don't have the skills to do any of the those things Well. I'd encourage how to write sentences, then paragraphs before I'd be hoping for the fancy assignments that pretend a kid knows so much, when what you end up with are generally poorly written sentences and poorly built paragraphs. Fancy assignments lend themselves to the appearance of understanding, but actually do not truly represent a full understanding if they are done with poor skill.

 

OP, instead of rushing forward, I'd make sure you have the basics DOWN first. It's very easy to build a "paper or essay" once you actually build a well written sentence and paragraph. WWE builds slowly. I'd agree with the other poster that said in the end, the classical approach will produce a better writer, even if it takes a bit longer to get there.

 

FWIW, we use The Phonics Road for grammar school; WriteShop in middle; and Writing Aids in high school.

[Carol in Cal.]

This is a tough one.

On the one hand, I wanted DD to be able to go into local schools whenever we chose. On the other, I wanted to teach her in the way that was most developmentally appropriate and that taught to HER specific strengths and weaknesses--mostly TWTM methods.

 

What was helpful in making me feel like the first was doable without letting it overwhelm the second was working through a Spectrum test prep book OR released test questions on grade level each year for a couple of weeks. I presented it as 'more tools in your toolbox' and since all the questions were multiple choice, the things they wanted her to be able to do only had to be familiar and interpretable rather than generatable. So, for instance, she only had to interpret a 'writing web', not generate one. I put it like, OK, here is a way to organize information if you're writing about something. We usually use outlines for this, but some people use these. See how they work? Then she would answer a few multiple choice questions about it, and we would move on.

 

DD took the state tests and always did very well in the ELA sections, so this was effective without distorting her literature and writing training.

 

When she applied for RC high school, I included a couple of her short literary papers in the application binder, and also that summer she took the Expository Essay class from BW. She was extraordinarily well-prepared for high school writing. No worries!

[mandymom]

My ds, who is in 4th grade ps brought this persuasive writing assignment home today. Needless to say, I was disappointed. Here is is in it's entirety (sorry it's long). I'm typing it just as he wrote it.

 

Perswade Day

 

 

Have you ever convinsed someone to be your great freand? Well guess what! We got a new kid today and I Ryan am going to get him to be my friend. I bet you don't know how i'm going to do it huh? I'm going to tell him that i'm caring, active, and I love to play! Yes, he gets to sit at our table.

 

"Hello i'm Ryan." I told him I will help you if you don't understand something. If you get hurt i'm the best greatest man to call. Ding, ding, cheeeee, ding, ding, cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyy. went the clock. I guess it's time for P.E.

 

"Hey come here Jo! You want to run with me? I love to run, and i'm active. I play sports just like a muskular man. I love to climb to! Time to go to recess!

 

"Hey Jo com here! I love to play kickball." I convinced him. We could play freeze tag, that would be wicked." said Jo. Hey wait I have an idea how 'bout we play lazer tag? Hmmmm o.k. let's go. Zoom! We sped off. At last minute Jo finnaly got 10-8 so he won. "Good game" I said as we went inside. Time to go home!

 

"Hey Ryan" Jo said "thanks for playing with me, but will you be my friend? "Yes!" I was waiting for you to ask. Just call me and I will be there in a jiffy. Come on I'll show you to your spot. "Bye!" Now that's how to get a friend!

 

He made a 90 on this paper! :banghead: The ONLY correction the teacher made was to circle the uncapitalized "i'm"s throughout. Um....how about letting him know that he didn't write a persuasive paper?!?! In fact, I'm not even sure what to call it. No mention of incorrect punctuation, misspellings, informal style and language, overuse of quotations and exclamation points, etc.

 

And my son is at a "very good" school with high test scores and in the G/T program. Does this alleviate some of your fears? I wish I was in your shoes. I'll have to undo all of this nonsense (and I don't even want to talk about math). I wish we had decided sooner to homeschool.

Edited April 21, 2011 by mandymom

[mamachanse]

My ds, who is in 4th grade ps brought this persuasive writing assignment home today. Needless to say, I was disappointed. Here is is in it's entirety (sorry it's long). I'm typing it just as he wrote it.

 

Perswade Day

Have you ever convinsed someone to be your great freand? Well guess what! We got a new kid today and I Ryan am going to get him to be my friend. I bet you don't know how i'm going to do it huh? I'm going to tell him that i'm caring, active, and I love to play! Yes, he gets to sit at our table.

 

"Hello i'm Ryan." I told him I will help you if you don't understand something. If you get hurt i'm the best greatest man to call. Ding, ding, cheeeee, ding, ding, cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyy. went the clock. I guess it's time for P.E.

 

"Hey come here Jo! You want to run with me? I love to run, and i'm active. I play sports just like a muskular man. I love to climb to! Time to go to recess!

 

"Hey Jo com here! I love to play kickball." I convinced him. We could play freeze tag, that would be wicked." said Jo. Hey wait I have an idea how 'bout we play lazer tag? Hmmmm o.k. let's go. Zoom! We sped off. At last minute Jo finnaly got 10-8 so he won. "Good game" I said as we went inside. Time to go home!

 

"Hey Ryan" Jo said "thanks for playing with me, but will you be my friend? "Yes!" I was waiting for you to ask. Just call me and I will be there in a jiffy. Come on I'll show you to your spot. "Bye!" Now that's how to get a friend!

 

He made a 90 on this paper! :banghead: The ONLY correction the teacher made was to circle the uncapitalized "i'm"s throughout. Um....how about letting him know that he didn't write a persuasive paper?!?! In fact, I'm not even sure what to call it. No mention of incorrect punctuation, misspellings, informal style and language, overuse of quotations and exclamation points, etc.

 

And my son is at a "very good" school with high test scores and in the G/T program. Does this alleviate some of your fears? I wish I was in your shoes. I'll have to undo all of this nonsense (and I don't even want to talk about math). I wish we had decided sooner to homeschool.

 

Oh my! :O

[truebluexf]

My ds, who is in 4th grade ps brought this persuasive writing assignment home today. Needless to say, I was disappointed. Here is is in it's entirety (sorry it's long). I'm typing it just as he wrote it.

 

 

And my son is at a "very good" school with high test scores and in the G/T program. Does this alleviate some of your fears? I wish I was in your shoes. I'll have to undo all of this nonsense (and I don't even want to talk about math). I wish we had decided sooner to homeschool.

 

 

OK, not to be mean....but...yes, this does make me feel better!:tongue_smilie: I can't believe it's a 90. I'm going to keep on my path of WWE and maybe a little something else thrown in every now and then for exposure, next year!

[mandymom]

OK, not to be mean....but...yes, this does make me feel better!:tongue_smilie:

 

Good! I'm glad it did. Just do what you know is right and fight the temptation to compare to what everyone else is doing. I know that it will be difficult for me to not second-guess myself when we take a step back next year and work on basics while their friends in ps are doing so-called "advanced work". But, I think that I am realizing that is what HAS to happen. I really wish I could do things over again. At least my youngest won't have to deal with this :001_smile: