mcconnellboys Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Yes, I agree. Any sort of meltdown is going to result in problems that go on for years, not weeks or months. But I think that (at least at this point) Japan has done a better job of containing the problem to a more limited area than was the case with Chernobyl.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 The OP was just making a point,using a common expression, not actually laughing. The authorities have tried to, and are still trying to, minimise the actual impact of the whole thing, right from the beginning. There is plenty of evidence of that. I think its worth directing your upset towards those who are not behaving with impeccability in the situation, rather than those on a message board trying to remind us that this is a huge emergency of dire proportions that is still continuing despite the media's moving on. Or, just send compassion to everyone affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 What I have done is ceased mourning in public. I have stopped engaging people in debates about the need for iodine tablets in Iowa. I have stopped trying to convince people that their perception of the incident might need more information. I am still discussing it daily with our friends who were directly affected, who have had to leave Japan or who are still in place. Some of my friends have been recalled to active duty to provide air transport for disaster supplies. Yes, the nuclear situation is going to be worse than initial speculation indicated. Yes, TEPCO has been less than stellar in it's reactions and willingness to be open about what was happening. Yes, it looks like some of the worst fears are going to be happening in Japan. But I think that it's worth noting that in Chernobyl, the goverment did not admit that there had been an incident at all for quite some time. In fact they went ahead with the scheduled May Day parades (while quietly sending their own families out of town). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I have just been reading that 3 weeks ago many people knew it was a level 7- it took the Japanese govt 3 more weeks before officially letting people know. That it could be far worse than Chernobyl because not 1 but 3 or 4 reactors are involved- a multiple reactor event is previously unknown. And...Fukushima is happening in a very highly populated area compared to the largely rural countryside around Chernobyl. Just outside that 30km exclusion zone are several cities. So it is only different...but not necessarily any better and possibly much worse. And certainly not over yet. I don't understand the need to constantly minimise what is happening, although perhaps it is a response to our media hyped culture. I have also been reading that 340,000 people are still living in the city of Fukushima where the radiation levels are very high, and farmers are still in their fields...and they have not been given information on how to handle the situation. The farmers don't know whether their crops are contaminated, whether they can sell them etc. The information just isn't being given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I have read that the total amount of radiation that MAY be released has been calculated by the power company to be far greater than what was released at Chernobyl. What is worse, releasing it slowly or quickly? I am not sure if releasing it in the ocean is better than releasing it in the air either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 latest http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/9190164/workers-at-stricken-japan-nuclear-plant-make-a-little-progress/ Radioactive strontium found in the soil. My ds17 informs me that means it the core heated up to 4000 oC, pretty hot. Haven't checked if he is right though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I'm not trying to minimize what is happening. But I was put off by how bad much of the reporting was in the early days after the earthquake. Lurid, video driven, and sometimes displaying a lack of knowledge of the area they were reporting on (for example the anchors on one channel who were reporting that a video feed was from Kauai, when it was showing a stretch of beach on Waikiki - which is on Oahu.) I don't expect that every anchor will know everything about every story. I do expect that they will restrain themselves from speculation, guessing and misinformation - which seems mostly just to fill air time. I have probably been one of the minimizing voices here. I'm not trying to downgrade what is happening in Japan. That is a country that I just left a few months ago and where I still have many friends. Many of these friends are now displaced around the US under "voluntary departure". Others are still in place and are actively engaged in relief operations. I won't minimize what is happening for and to them. But I do get tired of some of the panicked responses from people far from the disaster. I am disappointed in the reports I'm getting of the Japanese government seeming to not make common sense actions (like releasing the emergency fuel reserves to allow relief trucks to get supplies to the area). I've read several stories of groups or business leaders that have supplies to deliver that can hardly get up north because of the lack of fuel in the area. I fear that more will suffer and die from preventable causes like lack of food and warmth than from radiation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping In Puddles Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) nm Edited April 13, 2011 by Jumping In Puddles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I'm not trying to minimize what is happening. But I was put off by how bad much of the reporting was in the early days after the earthquake. Me too. I knew it was Sendai before the media even said that it was Sendai. I recognized the places in the videos even while the t.v. anchor was identifying them as totally different places. Part of that was due to the confusion at the start of a disaster coupled with the desire of the news wanting to be the one to get a scoop at all costs. I have probably been one of the minimizing voices here. I'm not trying to downgrade what is happening in Japan. But I do get tired of some of the panicked responses from people far from the disaster. Ditto. I was born and raised in Sendai. I've played on the beaches that were in the clips. I have friends there and in Fukushima. I am still in touch with them. I am disappointed in the reports I'm getting of the Japanese government seeming to not make common sense actions (like releasing the emergency fuel reserves to allow relief trucks to get supplies to the area). I've read several stories of groups or business leaders that have supplies to deliver that can hardly get up north because of the lack of fuel in the area. I fear that more will suffer and die from preventable causes like lack of food and warmth than from radiation. I am getting real life reports from friends in the worst affected area. They report that they have huge piles of supplies that they are trying to distribute to people. They are going door to door asking people what their real needs are. But there are some needs they cannot meet - these are the ones having to do with utilities - mainly gas at this point (for heating). It's hard to get to outlying areas when roads are washed out or cars have been abandoned due to lack of gas. In fact, getting to those outlying areas is their biggest concern and target right now. But you know what? None of the people I know there are panicking or complaining. They are buckling down and doing what they can to not only take care of their own needs but to reach out to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 Honestly, I don't get the "laughing at people" and "cracking up" thing. This is just a horrible, devastating tragedy and I can't see one thing about it that would make me crack a smile. People being wrong about a horrific radiation leak doesn't seem funny to me, and there is no joy in saying they were wrong. Most of us are going about our normal daily lives. I check what is happening twice a day, but have tried not to check over and over all day like I did in the beginning. I wouldn't click a "click if you love Japan" button on facebook. It just seems so stupid. And for the most part, I don't want to join in conversations about it on message board. What's the point? I'm kind of surprised that someone who is ostensibly classically educating their child would not be able to determine the SUBJECT of my sentence. :confused: Wow. It's like being "factually" interpreted by an Arizona senator. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyInTraining Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Anyone concerned about hot particles that have been found in Seattle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I'm very concerned. I'm concerned about milk sources coming from the West coast, too. And I'm equally concerned with the two nuclear power plants in the middle of our country that are in crisis right now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I'm very concerned. I'm concerned about milk sources coming from the West coast, too. And I'm equally concerned with the two nuclear power plants in the middle of our country that are in crisis right now.... There really is no crisis at the two nuclear plants in the middle of the country. My dh works at one of those plants. I would not send him to work if there was a problem. There is no crisis. Media reporters are woefully uneducated about nuclear power. They can't even get their stories straight. I cannot tell you how many times they have mixed up the plants. Seriously, there is no crisis at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Anyone concerned about hot particles that have been found in Seattle? Do you have a current link on this? All I saw in the local Seattle news was particles found months ago that then went away. I don't have time to google for more recent information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 When everything is said and done, years from now, Fukushima's toll is going to be much higher than Chernobyl's. First, because it was the melt-down of 3 reactors, not 1. Secondly, because there has been a partial melt-through (containment). Thirdly, because containment only applies to the reactors in the core; there was and is nothing containing the spent fuel rods, which emit just as much radiation. So, take the spent fuel rods of a given reactor, and multiply it by six. The following article by Al Jazeera is extremely sobering. How many people here are aware of the 35% increase in infant mortality along the U.S. Pacific coast, in the 10 weeks directly following Fukushima? Read on for more details. "Fukushima is the biggest industrial catastrophe in the history of mankind," Arnold Gundersen, a former nuclear industry senior vice president, told Al Jazeera. . . TEPCO announced that the accident probably released more radioactive material into the environment than Chernobyl, making it the worst nuclear accident on record. Meanwhile, a nuclear waste advisor to the Japanese government reported that about 966 square kilometres near the power station - an area roughly 17 times the size of Manhattan - is now likely uninhabitable. In the US, physician Janette Sherman MD and epidemiologist Joseph Mangano published an essay shedding light on a 35 per cent spike in infant mortality in northwest cities that occurred after the Fukushima meltdown, and may well be the result of fallout from the stricken nuclear plant. The eight cities included in the report are San Jose, Berkeley, San Francisco, Sacramento, Santa Cruz, Portland, Seattle, and Boise, and the time frame of the report included the ten weeks immediately following the disaster. . . Gundersen points out that far more radiation has been released than has been reported. "They recalculated the amount of radiation released, but the news is really not talking about this," he said. "The new calculations show that within the first week of the accident, they released 2.3 times as much radiation as they thought they released in the first 80 days." [/Quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 Terri, are you ok? You're reviving a lot of threads about nuclear radiation and stuff. You must be feeling pretty anxious. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 How many people here are aware of the 35% increase in infant mortality along the U.S. Pacific coast, in the 10 weeks directly following Fukushima? Yes, I read that last week. It seems to me..the situation is too big for any government to actually handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 There really is no crisis at the two nuclear plants in the middle of the country. My dh works at one of those plants. I would not send him to work if there was a problem. There is no crisis. Media reporters are woefully uneducated about nuclear power. They can't even get their stories straight. I cannot tell you how many times they have mixed up the plants. Seriously, there is no crisis at all. Eh, that is not the impression I'm getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 The following article by Al Jazeera is extremely sobering. How many people here are aware of the 35% increase in infant mortality along the U.S. Pacific coast, in the 10 weeks directly following Fukushima? Read on for more details. From a further analysis of that & more surrounding data, "While it certainly is true that there were fewer deaths in the four weeks leading up to Fukushima (in green) than there have been in the 10 weeks following (in red), the entire year has seen no overall trend. When I plotted a best-fit line to the data (in blue), Excel calculated a very slight decrease in the infant mortality rate." Here: http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=are-babies-dying-in-the-pacific-nor-2011-06-21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 From a further analysis of that & more surrounding data, "While it certainly is true that there were fewer deaths in the four weeks leading up to Fukushima (in green) than there have been in the 10 weeks following (in red), the entire year has seen no overall trend. When I plotted a best-fit line to the data (in blue), Excel calculated a very slight decrease in the infant mortality rate."Here: http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=are-babies-dying-in-the-pacific-nor-2011-06-21 Thank you. I've been following it here: http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/4726 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Thank you. I've been following it here: http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/4726 That makes me feel better. I hope the data continue to show no increase down the road. There are such huge populations along the Pacific coast, that trying to shield them from radiative clouds or hot shots, just seems a logistical nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 That makes me feel better. I hope the data continue to show no increase down the road. There are such huge populations along the Pacific coast, that trying to shield them from radiative clouds or hot shots, just seems a logistical nightmare. Yes it is reassuring- but also sobering that they are taking it very seriously, by the tone of the article and responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyInTraining Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Do you have a current link on this? All I saw in the local Seattle news was particles found months ago that then went away. I don't have time to google for more recent information. Hi Jean. Here is the CNN interview: And this: http://www.fairewinds.com/content/hot-particles-japan-seattle-virtually-undetectable-when-inhaled-or-swallowed What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyInTraining Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Terri, are you ok? You're reviving a lot of threads about nuclear radiation and stuff. You must be feeling pretty anxious. :grouphug: Hi Jennifer, Well, I am just wondering why no one else is talking much about what is happening to the air we are breathing ;). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyInTraining Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 When everything is said and done, years from now, Fukushima's toll is going to be much higher than Chernobyl's. First, because it was the melt-down of 3 reactors, not 1. Secondly, because there has been a partial melt-through (containment). Thirdly, because containment only applies to the reactors in the core; there was and is nothing containing the spent fuel rods, which emit just as much radiation. So, take the spent fuel rods of a given reactor, and multiply it by six. The following article by Al Jazeera is extremely sobering. How many people here are aware of the 35% increase in infant mortality along the U.S. Pacific coast, in the 10 weeks directly following Fukushima? Read on for more details. I agree! :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Hi Jean. Here is the CNN interview: And this: http://www.fairewinds.com/content/hot-particles-japan-seattle-virtually-undetectable-when-inhaled-or-swallowed What do you think? If you look at LittleIzumi's post - a couple of posts above yours, your mind should be set at ease - at least a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyInTraining Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 If you look at LittleIzumi's post - a couple of posts above yours, your mind should be set at ease - at least a little. Well, that just has to do with infant mortality, right? It says nothing about hot particles tainted with plutonium that we may be currently inhaling based on the 2 links I sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 It says nothing about hot particles tainted with plutonium that we may be currently inhaling based on the 2 links I sent. My understanding is that plutonium is very heavy and cannot travel very far unless it is ejected high into the atmosphere (which happened at Chernobyl but not at Fukushima). However, in regards to radioactive iodine and cesium, we on the west coast (and in lesser amounts elsewhere) have definitely been exposed. The iodine decays in a couple of months but, I believe, Cesium 137 will continue to decay for 200-300 years. I've found these two sites that help keep me updated (in a non-alarmist way). The first is Radiation Safety Philippines. He is a U.S. registered dosimeterist and can easily translate the information on exposure into a language your common layman can understand. Most of his information comes from reasonably reliable sources, from which he includes links, and I find his reporting very balanced. http://falloutphilippines.blogspot.com/ The other is from the University of Berkeley. They have been testing food, air, milk, water, etc. since the crisis and this site reports their readings. It's nice to see that their readings have continued to decrease overall. http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/UCBAirSampling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Well, that just has to do with infant mortality, right? It says nothing about hot particles tainted with plutonium that we may be currently inhaling based on the 2 links I sent. From Cleoptra's UCB link: "Results Log 7/1 (10:41pm): Our latest air sample from 6/17–24 has been analyzed and posted. This sample is the third consecutive non-detection of all isotopes in our air filters, for a total of 24 days of non-detections. We are now turning off our air sampling system but will remain on standby if there are any further major releases from Fukushima. We will be counting our last air filter (6/24–7/1) over the next week and releasing those results on or around Friday 7/8." They are continuing to monitor any substances that do still show traces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 That makes me feel better. I hope the workers are all fully informed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Yes, I've been reading about this and other concerns. I wish our government would provide more solid info for us, as well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I wonder if this includes what they are now terming "hot particles". I thought I read that they are not detectable with sampling equipment, as they are so small? Is that possible? They must be detectable or how would anyone be able to estimate how many per day are being breathed in? This is all very confusing for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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