do you agree with this Amazon.com review of FLL 1?

[poetic license]

Here is a review of book 1 of FLL from Amazon.com. Does anyone agree or is this reviewer being a little over the top?

 

Ummmm... Really? I have to say this book is well-liked in my home. Every time I bust it out, my dear darling daughter knows she's going to feel smart. I began using this volume at the beginning of my daughter's "first grade" year. Learning that a noun is "the name of a person, place, thing, or idea" took all of forty-three seconds. Being rewarded for knowing it covered all of forty-three lessons.

 

On the one hand, if your child masters these lessons during his first grade year, he has certainly put himself beyond the flow of the mainstream. On the other hand, if you have rejected the mainstream education because it severely underestimates the average child, this little book will NOT excite you. It is a good guide mark for judging minimum education standards. It will not propell your child towards unmarked territory, nor will it confirm your loftiest ideals.

 

The stories are not told in a charming fashion (seriously, why bother telling 'The Turtle and the Rabbit' if you feel your audience can't handle "Tortoise", "Hare", or "Victory"}, the rewrites of poetry always tend towards the watered down (as in the Days of the Week), and none of the art excites the true depths of childish fancy (Mary Cassatt touches those who have been desynthesized to normative sentimentality).

 

Overall, I rate this grammar study as just below par for the standards of true education and solidly above par for the standards of public education.

 

link

[Homeschooling6]

If you read her other review, she didn't care for SOTW either. Maybe it's a WTM thing with her.

[Xuzi]

While I agree that the repeition of the definition of a noun in FLL 1 was a bit tedious, I don't feel it was necessarily superfluous. I really appreciated that it covered all the different definitions of "places", of "things", of "ideas", which nouns are capitalized, and which are not, and why. I appreciated the depth that I felt lacked from my own elementary grammar instruction.

[CarrieF]

So, if your child is a genius (like that of the reviewer), SKIP the other 42 lessons on nouns and move on. Seriously. That is why we homeschool: to PERSONALIZE the instruction. :D To each his (or her) own! Use what works for your child and you (and don't give much weight to reviews, unless they are objective, or at least seem to be!).

[FairProspects]

I don't agree at all. Most young children need a lot of repetition to retain information. I think it is a perfectly paced grammar program for the majority of 1st graders. Its just like drilling math facts but for language.

[Tsutsie]

FLL is the beginning LEVEL, not necessarily for GRADE 1. I think that an average 5 year old can easily handle most of it, especially because it is mostly oral work. We've started FFL last week and will be doing lesson 23 next. This after doing a more worksheet-type approach to LA (Horizons 1) - and my son is definitely still learning, and enjoying it. He gets what is taught and enjoys all aspect of it. We will definitely finish level 1 in less than a year - most likely in less than 3 months. Thus, when we get to Level 2, will it still be BELOW what a child in grade 1 PS will be learning? I don't think so.

 

When I look at the Horizons worksheets I can not help to think that FFL is much easier. Also, I was able to give my son the worksheet, and he'd just do it. He would read the instructions, the rule, and figure out what they wanted. He almost always got it all correct. Then, the next day I'd ask him "What is the plural for car?." I'd get a blank look. Only after I again explained what plural is, or he reads instructions, will he be able to do it. He was finding the worksheets easy, but not retaining anything. Huh? Anyway, with FFL he is remembering what a noun is, he remembers the poems, etc. So what if it takes a little longer to get to verbs.

 

I'm loving FFL, and so is my kindergarten aged son!

[Michele B]

So, if your child is a genius (like that of the reviewer), SKIP the other 42 lessons on nouns and move on. Seriously. That is why we homeschool: to PERSONALIZE the instruction.

:iagree:

 

I also substituted some of the poetry selections FLL1-4. No big deal- it is still a great program.

[blakereese]

While I agree that the repeition of the definition of a noun in FLL 1 was a bit tedious, I don't feel it was necessarily superfluous. I really appreciated that it covered all the different definitions of "places", of "things", of "ideas", which nouns are capitalized, and which are not, and why. I appreciated the depth that I felt lacked from my own elementary grammar instruction.

 

:iagree: It seems tedious, but most kids really need that repetition. And you can always cut it down a bit, it is a really easy curriculum to "tweak". My son has loved it, and I would never have expected him to be begging me for grammar, ya know? :001_huh::lol:

 

I remember reading this exact review (and some others like it) and it talked me out of FLL at first. I used something else, was bored to death, and then finally gave FLL a try. I am so glad I did.

 

The depth is pretty amazing. It is so simple, but he is picking up so much, and it is taught in context, which has made it really click for my son. I know I couldn't have picked out a noun or pronoun or really anything at his age.

 

And what is wrong with it seeming easy and making the kid feel smart? I think that giving a child a confidence boost from the gentle start of the program is the genius of the whole thing. Now he likes grammar, thinks it is fun and easy...and the foundation is being poured. I love it.

 

I know that it doesn't work for everyone, but I am happy with it. I wouldn't want a rigorous program for a young child, and I am glad for the repetition. JMO

[In2why]

I agree with her review. I wouldn't write it that way, or be that sarcastic, but it is the reason we rarely use FLL. My son HATEs it with a passion. Which is funny because he needs a spiral math program, but the incremental progression of FLL drives him nuts.

[TheAutumnOak]

I don't agree...The book is written for first graders...What does the reviewer expect for a first grade grammar book?...First grade children need repetition...If you are using the book with someone older, you can adapt...

Jessie Wise's children appear to be well educated to me, so I think she must have done something right :p

[kitten18]

Nope, we love it.

[boscopup]

I'm actually impressed with what it *does* cover. In school, the first graders had barely learned nouns. Yes, my son caught onto a noun quickly, but I'm just quickly going through those lessons (not reading them verbatim) to make sure he fully understands what a noun is. Afterall, it's a pretty important concept of grammar! We also do addition just about everyday in math at this age. :tongue_smilie:

 

Looking ahead at FLL2, it moves through topics more quickly. I think FLL2 will probably be a little more "fun" for us because of that. But FLL1 hasn't bothered me like I thought it would.

 

Of course, we came from R&S 2, which spent 6 weeks (5 days a week) on complete sentences vs. phrases. At least FLL1 breaks up the noun lessons with other stuff. So you do a story or picture narration, or you might learn about your address or phone number (things I tend to forget to teach), or you'll work on memorizing a poem. It's not nouns every day. It's also so short and easy to do. We've been doing 3 lessons a day (though after this week we'll go normal speed since we'll be lined up with WWE1 at that point).

 

Anyway, I think it's a great program for K or first grade (my son could certainly have done it in K), and where the program is heading (FLL2, 3, and 4) looks even better. I feel confident that when we get done with FLL4, we'll have had a good, solid 4 years of grammar education (and be ready to move on to ALL). I don't expect the meat to be in the first grade book (note that R&S doesn't even HAVE a first grade book, and their 2nd grade book is pretty light, as I demonstrated above - most people start in R&S 3). I expect the meat to start in 3rd and 4th grade, when you get to diagramming and such. I'm not sure what the reviewer was expecting? Did she want her first grader to learn all parts of speech and how to diagram a sentence? :confused:

[Crimson Wife]

Here's my review of the 1st edition written a few months into my oldest's K5 year:

 

I have a love/hate relationship with this title. Pros: inexpensive, solid introduction to grammar, usage, mechanics, and copywork in short, easy-to-teach lessons. Cons: excessive repetition, dumbed-down & altered versions of poems & stories, many of the concepts too easy for target audience of 1st & 2nd graders. I had originally planned to condense this into 1 year but we're 10 weeks into the school year & almost halfway through the book. So at the rate we're going, we'll be finished with it mid-winter. I think it's been worthwhile but am a bit disappointed because it wasn't as good as it had the potential to be.

 

We did slow down a bit in the 2nd half of the book but still finished at the beginning of March.

 

My DS is going through FLL 1/2 somewhat more slowly than his big sister, but we're still combining many of the lessons and skipping others entirely. I do think that a bunch of the topics are way too easy for 1st grade. Days of the week, months of the year, learning one's address, family relationships, etc. are IMHO pre-k concepts not 1st grade.

[EJCMom]

It's more important to me that my daughter still remembers what a noun is in June than that she got to verbs in October. I like the repetition.

[nmoira]

 

My DS is going through FLL 1/2 somewhat more slowly than his big sister, but we're still combining many of the lessons and skipping others entirely. I do think that a bunch of the topics are way too easy for 1st grade. Days of the week, months of the year, learning one's address, family relationships, etc. are IMHO pre-k concepts not 1st grade.

I found it to be tedious when going through with DD the Elder, despite doing some drastic compacting. DD the Younger is not as advanced in terms of language as her sister, so I pulled it out to give it another go. It's still tedious. I don't like that many of the poems are abridged or bowdlerized; I find the stories and narrations to be boring, even in terms of language. I just find FLL to be boring, and it's not even the pacing: There's no joy, no wonder, no excitement, and certainly no beauty. Edited March 15, 2011 by nmoira
clarity

[sewpeaceful]

Another vote here: we love it. For us, since it is an oral program, it isn't just about grammar, it is about speaking clearly. My ds tends to say "liddle" instead of "little" type of thing, slur his 'R's if he says them at all so it became my 2-in-1 grammar and speech therapy program. He pulls it out everyday (more because he is a checkbox kind of kid and has an assignment sheet to know what has to be done before he can go read or play or whatever). But it works for us. YES, it can feel mundane to mom and dad but like many PPs, the average lower grammar student needs and benefits from such repitition.

 

My dd did FLL and transitioned into R&S book 2 beautifully. And I DO make my kiddos do the suggested copywork because it is never much but helps prepare them for 2nd grade work.

 

Speaking of which, our break is nearly over and I need to schedule my ds's next round of FLL lessons. :D Meanwhile sis gets to start Writing with Ease.... Mwhahahaha

[mymonkeybug]

:001_huh::001_huh::001_huh:

I think this particular reviewer sat with a thesaurus and went to town writing that review.

 

He/She has a very strong opinion of their opinion it seems.

[poetic license]

Interesting discussion!

 

Yeah, the reviewer does have some issues with WTM, and seems to have really pulled out all the stops on this review (hubris, anyone?) but I appreciate hearing from those who agree on some level with the idea of dumbed-down selections. That's good to know.

 

Cons: excessive repetition, dumbed-down & altered versions of poems & stories, many of the concepts too easy for target audience of 1st & 2nd graders.

 

I don't like that many of the poems are abridged or bowdlerized; I find the stories and narrations to be boring, even in terms of language. I just find FLL to be boring, and it's not even the pacing: There's no joy, no wonder, no excitement, and certainly no beauty.

 

Oh boo. Not good. Given that you guys thought it was dumbed-down, do you still think it's worth a go?

 

My son will be a Ker by age next year but he really loves language. He loves to describe things, copy the style of poems and stories to create his own versions, etc. Is there something else out there that I could use that does have that elusive beauty and joy or am I going to have to improvise?

[blakereese]

Interesting discussion!

 

Yeah, the reviewer does have some issues with WTM, and seems to have really pulled out all the stops on this review (hubris, anyone?) but I appreciate hearing from those who agree on some level with the idea of dumbed-down selections. That's good to know.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh boo. Not good. Given that you guys thought it was dumbed-down, do you still think it's worth a go?

 

My son will be a Ker by age next year but he really loves language. He loves to describe things, copy the style of poems and stories to create his own versions, etc. Is there something else out there that I could use that does have that elusive beauty and joy or am I going to have to improvise?

 

Maybe add in the Sentence Family at some point? FLL is definitely missing a bit of "joy" and "fun" that is great to have at that age (although I haven't really seen a K/1st grade grammar program that has it). I went through the Sentence Family and had DS draw, do copywork, etc. and it was really cute. It really helped with his creative side, and even DD joined in sometimes. I also like to supplement with the Ruth Heller books. I feel like I have covered everything that way, and brought a bit of fun in, too.

[NancyNellen]

"desynthesized?" ...In the words that don't exist department. Maybe she should turn her attention to vocabulary?

 

Seriously, though. One thing I LOVE about FLL (and I feel that I can say this with at least a bit of authority, having used it 4 times) is that the review is there for those who need it and very easily skipped for those who don't. I have had kids fly through the whole thing rapidly, retaining all the info, and I have had a child who needed the review. It is gentle. It is quick. It is thorough. It is cheap.

 

I like it.

[nmoira]

 

Oh boo. Not good. Given that you guys thought it was dumbed-down, do you still think it's worth a go?

If you would like a spine or framework to work within, FLL something you can easily adapt: Pick interesting or beautiful poems for memory work, find well written short passages from real books for narrations, etc.

[ladydusk]

Interesting discussion!

 

Yeah, the reviewer does have some issues with WTM, and seems to have really pulled out all the stops on this review (hubris, anyone?) but I appreciate hearing from those who agree on some level with the idea of dumbed-down selections. That's good to know.

 

Oh boo. Not good. Given that you guys thought it was dumbed-down, do you still think it's worth a go?

 

My son will be a Ker by age next year but he really loves language. He loves to describe things, copy the style of poems and stories to create his own versions, etc. Is there something else out there that I could use that does have that elusive beauty and joy or am I going to have to improvise?

 

You know, a simple internet search found the original poems for me, and they're fine poems. They're poems I learned to memorize the months of the year and days of the week. They're ones I still use to remember how many days are in a month. I've used/am using the 1st Edition, and while I would love to have the new art in the second, really, it is fine. My children like that the pictures are about children doing something, it's me who wishes for something better.

 

Yes, FLL is redundant. But, my daughter told me right after we learned the "State of Being Verbs" that she repeated them to herself several times before bed one night because she wanted to be sure she knew them. She can identify the noun and verb in the sentence (and the type of verb) two months into FLL2. My son isn't as strong on nouns at lesson 26, but he'll get there ... and he's a young 5.

 

No, it isn't glitzy. It isn't glamorous. It is efficient and effective. Grammar is fast, even if I bother to read the whole script which I generally reword.

 

We're working on helping verbs now, I'm learning something. semi-officially, my daughter is a 1st grader doing FLL2 and my son is a Ker doing FLL1. They both read at 4 (thanks to OPG which is also neither glitzy nor glamorous, but effective and efficient). My son and I do OPG (1-4 lessons), FLL1, a penmanship page, and an MEP lesson in 45 minutes or less. My daughter and I do FLL2, WWE1, Penmanship, McGuffey, Latin review, Spelling, and an MEP lesson in an hour. Effective and Efficient are important to me.

 

I totally understand the questions. I asked my friends about it. I was soooo done with Nouns with FLL1 and there was no end in sight. They encouraged me to keep at it, maybe double up if necessary, and I'm glad they did.

[FairProspects]

I honestly don't get the complaint about the noun definition being too repetitive. FLL is designed to be used 2-3 times per week, so you are only reviewing the definition twice a week or so, frequently having taken 4 or so days off in between. That doesn't seem like excessive repetition to me for a young child, even a bright child, that is just common sense review for transferring info to long-term memory.

 

If you are condensing the lessons and going faster than 2-3 times a week, maybe it becomes a problem, but really I think it is overblown.

 

I need to stop. I'm way too offended by some of the comments in this thread and I'm feeling like my kid must be stupid or something. Some kids need very explicit teaching and FLL is perfect for this.

[poetic license]

 

I need to stop. I'm way too offended by some of the comments in this thread and I'm feeling like my kid must be stupid or something. Some kids need very explicit teaching and FLL is perfect for this.

 

Hope nothing I said was off. :grouphug: I haven't even seen the book IRL myself.

 

If some seem put off by the book, then perhaps that is their own situation and experience with the book. I don't think anyone means to insinuate that a child must be stupid or anything. It's good to hear that the book can be adapted for different types of learners.

[brownie]

I'm enjoying it with my 3rd son. He's officially in kindergarten. Though all of his work is first grade, we do very little work each day bc it is kindergarten.

 

I didn't HS my older 2 until 3rd and 1st grade. Now that I have a 2nd grader struggling to remember what a verb is because we didn't start grammar until this year, I totally appreciate FLL. He actually enjoys it too! Cheap, easy, quick and effective IMO. Brownie

[Crimson Wife]

If you would like a spine or framework to work within, FLL something you can easily adapt: Pick interesting or beautiful poems for memory work, find well written short passages from real books for narrations, etc.

 

:iagree:

I do really like FLL 1/2 "tweaked" to an appropriate pace for the child. It's been very easy for me to find the original versions of the poems to memorize and more sophisticated stories to narrate.

 

FWIW, the first half of the book is where I have the biggest need to "tweak" FLL.

[kitten18]

No, it isn't glitzy. It isn't glamorous. It is efficient and effective. Grammar is fast, even if I bother to read the whole script which I generally reword.

 

 

That is the bottom line for me and why I love FLL and WWE so much. When I close the book after a lesson and think "Wow, that was easy", it is a great thing.:)

[Wildiris]

Ouch! What a nasty review. As a buyer, when I read reviews like this I know that the reviewer has way too much of an agenda to write a decent review. Their sour words reflect their small mindedness and their review is just wasted space.

 

Personally, I do not care for FLL's slow pace, but I do think FLL is a good fit for kids who are not ready for a more aggressive language program. Is this bad; does this make a kid somehow less than if FLL is a perfect fit? No. Some young kids need more time being outside building forts, drawing or doing something far more interesting than studying language lessons.

[Lovedtodeath]

Here's my review of the 1st edition written a few months into my oldest's K5 year:

 

 

 

We did slow down a bit in the 2nd half of the book but still finished at the beginning of March.

 

My DS is going through FLL 1/2 somewhat more slowly than his big sister, but we're still combining many of the lessons and skipping others entirely. I do think that a bunch of the topics are way too easy for 1st grade. Days of the week, months of the year, learning one's address, family relationships, etc. are IMHO pre-k concepts not 1st grade.

:iagree:

[Pata]

We did get bogged down in the infamous noun section and I searched for greener grass, but we are back to FLL and loving it. The repetition has purpose and I know that for the rest of my dd's life, she will know what a noun is :).