MomOfOneFunOne Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 We're loving it! We looked at several of the things that are commonly recommended in homeschool circles but, to be honest, I found them mostly underwhelming. Then we found one written by Lewis Carroll (of Alice fame) but, well, we had a hard time following it. Finally we found Harry Stottlemeier's Discovery. We got both the student text (a printed off, staple bound book) and Teacher text (giant spiral bound). Two chapters in, remember, and we love it. It's hard to find but so far, worth it. I'll keep you updated but honestly, so far so great. In the first chapter we've joined Harry in his discovery of All Statements and No Statements and which ones can be reversed and why. We've practiced making both kinds, reversing both kinds, and evaluating the results. We thought about different kinds of thinking and what we use them for. We've discovered why knowing this is important and applies to us and why some things can be important even if they don't apply to us specifically. This is a very cool resource (so far) and we have every hope that it will continue as great as it began. Two chapters in and we're smitten. As I said, though, I'll keep you updated (but you'll probably need to remind me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Link please :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa B Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Harry Stottlemeier is part of a series of philosophy books that runs from K-12. I'm not sure whether this link will work. The organization is called Institute for the Advancement of Philosophy for Children. http://cehs.montclair.edu/academic/iapc/docs/Curriculum_Brochure.pdf Edited March 12, 2011 by Melissa B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomOfOneFunOne Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 This is where I found it. http://www.academybookstore.org/AngelicumStore/Detail.bok?no=872 I tried it completely blind. I've never seen it and couldn't find many reviews. I ordered it anyway b/c I like everything else I've seen on Angelicum's curriculum list. Glad I did. BTW, I looked all over for a used copy but no luck. I finally had to order new. and the link above didn't work for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I got my copy from interlibrary loan. I wish I could find it to buy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Harry Stottlemeier is part of a series of philosophy books that runs from K-12. I'm not sure whether this link will work. The organization is called Institute for the Advancement of Philosophy for Children. http://cehs.montclair.edu/academic/iapc/docs/Curriculum_Brochure.pdf Can one buy it from Montclair? It's almost half the price it is at Angelicum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 It looks interesting. Is it secular? (fingers crossed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Create Your Ritual Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I'd love to see a sample of it somewhere.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomOfOneFunOne Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 It looks interesting. Is it secular? (fingers crossed) Through chapter 2, yes, completely secular. I can let you know more later but I think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomOfOneFunOne Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 It looks interesting. Is it secular? (fingers crossed) Through chapter 2, yes, secular. However, my daughter, who has read almost the entire book :glare:, says that there are some references to the Bible but that it's far more secular than religious -- through chapter 10 of 14. I haven't read that far yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karis Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 free online readable version on www.eric.ed.gov. Don't know the exact link - do a thorough search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 free online readable version on www.eric.ed.gov. Don't know the exact link - do a thorough search http://www.eric.ed.gov/PDFS/ED103298.pdf I've read the first page and I'm hooked. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Create Your Ritual Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Can you tell me a little bit about how the teacher's text works. At the end of each chapter do you stop ad go through a list of questions? Are there worksheets to work on regarding it? Assignments? I also loved the link sample.. thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) I was just trying to figure out what to use for Logic for ds 11 next year and I think you've solved it for me! :001_smile: I :001_wub: these boards! ETA: Is it necessary to order the TM? Also, it seems to be availabe at Amazon? Edited March 14, 2011 by ELaurie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancer67 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I wondered the same thing. Can you order from Montclair? It is a lot cheaper. That Teacher Manual is big $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 There is a form on their website that you can use to place your order via email. I asked about the TM, and here is his reply: The student novels are stimulus materials meant to expose them to some philosophical questions and ideas. If you are not familiar with philosophy then the manuals will be very useful (and useful even if you are familiar). They contain Exercises which are aimed at addressing specific thinking skills and Discussion Plans designed for conceptual exploration. They are a very nice resource and I think essential to what you are doing. Please let me know if I can be of any further help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancer67 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 There is a form on their website that you can use to place your order via email. I asked about the TM, and here is his reply: The student novels are stimulus materials meant to expose them to some philosophical questions and ideas. If you are not familiar with philosophy then the manuals will be very useful (and useful even if you are familiar). They contain Exercises which are aimed at addressing specific thinking skills and Discussion Plans designed for conceptual exploration. They are a very nice resource and I think essential to what you are doing. Please let me know if I can be of any further help. Do you happen to have a link to this form? I can't seem to find it. In the meantime, my library had both the student book AND the TM through interlibrary loan!!! I can't wait to take a look at this in person. I really didn't want to use Fallacy Detective. Although it looks good, this looks much better. Thank you for mentioning this!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Create Your Ritual Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Can I ask were there others in this same program that you were thinking of using as well? How long do you think this one book and it's study should last? I have to place my Vendor Orders for next year's curriculum soon and wondered. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poke Salad Annie Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 http://www.eric.ed.gov/PDFS/ED103298.pdf I've read the first page and I'm hooked. ;) I agree. This is very interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Do you happen to have a link to this form? I can't seem to find it. If you follow the Montclair link, then scroll down to the last page, you will find the form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 What grade do you recommend this for? It looks like they have a number of books at different levels? But which grade are you speaking of? Brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancer67 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 If you follow the Montclair link, then scroll down to the last page, you will find the form. Thanks, I found it. Looks like you can only place your order by snail mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Thanks, I found it. Looks like you can only place your order by snail mail. I emailed Joe Oyler, and he sent an attachment that I could email. I don't have time to figure out how to post an attachment on the board right now, but I will try to do it later. You can also send me a PM and I will get back to you - probably best to include your email address, but I may be able to send an attachment later today via PM as well. Here is Joe's email address - he responded promptly to my inquiry. oylerj@mail.montclair.edu ETA: Bonnie just sent me a PM and offered to post a link to the attachment - thank you Bonnie! Edited March 16, 2011 by ELaurie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) I emailed Joe Oyler, and he sent an attachment that I could email. I don't have time to figure out how to post an attachment on the board right now, but I will try to do it later. The forum won't let me attach it (it's too big), so here is a link to it in Google Docs. ETA: you should be able to save the original file to your computer, and when you open it, Adobe will let you fill it out and save it so that you can email it back to Joe Oyler. Edited March 16, 2011 by bonniebeth4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 After I read through the sample lesson, I ordered this book immediately. It arrived yesterday, and I'm already reading through it, thinking ahead about how to schedule Logic for next year. I love it when the UPS man pulls up in our driveway :tongue_smilie: I think ds 11 and ds 8 (who will in 6th and 4th grades next year) will love this book! It's like LoF for Philosophy :001_smile: Thank you so much for suggesting it! MomofOneFunOne, I'm wondering if you have thoughts about how to schedule the lessons. They're too good to rush through; one option might be to just set aside a certain number of hours each week for Logic, and see how it goes. The other option would be to map it out on paper, then reevaluate as needed. Some of the lessons appear to be quite a bit longer than longer than others. There are 4 books in the series for middle school and HS, the first is recommended for 5-6; the second for 7-8, the third for 9-10, and the last for 11-12, so I can easily spread them our over 6 years, which is another way to look at it. Ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 There are 4 books in the series for middle school and HS, the first is recommended for 5-6; the second for 7-8, the third for 9-10, and the last for 11-12, so I can easily spread them our over 6 years, which is another way to look at it. Ideas? Interesting. Do you think one can skip directly to the 9-10th grade book? Or is it really beneficial to do the books that come first, even with older kids? I didn't see there were other books when I looked on the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) Interesting. Do you think one can skip directly to the 9-10th grade book? Or is it really beneficial to do the books that come first, even with older kids? I didn't see there were other books when I looked on the website. I don't know enough about the rest of the series to offer you any advice, but if you email Joe Oyler (his address is in one of my earlier posts) he can advise you. He was very responsive and helpful when I placed my order via email. Edited March 19, 2011 by ELaurie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancer67 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Thanks so much for the link:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomOfOneFunOne Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Regarding how to plan out the lessons, I haven't done that. I initially thought we'd do a chapter per week but it isnt' turning out that way either. Some of those lessons are real gems and we really linger over them. I might guess that it was designed to do one chapter over 2 wks. Some lessons, though, could be done one or two or even more per day. Sometimes it's a short lesson and sometimes it depends on the discussion it leads to. I think we're going to shoot for one chapter per two weeks but feel that it will take less. However, we don't want to rush and feel that that will leave room for lingering over topics/exercises. I think you may be suprised at what you find interesting in the TM. Doing word associations took us a long time b/c my girl had a lot of fun and we kept doing it over and over. We also took a few minutes each day to go back over the steps in the PoI so we have them memorized. Also, we review the chapter several times so we pick up things we may have missed or glossed over or, more often, didn't think would be important but turns out to be integral (vis a vis the exercitia). So I think a couple of weeks per chapter to give plenty of space but I dont' really think it would take that long. Shorter could work but doesn't allow much lingering time if you have an arduous schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 sounds like a good plan. Do you do a little bit every day, or one longer lesson each week? Do you think tow or three shorter lessons would work? About how much time are you spending on each lesson? Thanks for your suggestions :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycalling Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I did a search before posting a tread asking for suggestions for Logic in 5th grade. I think this is what I'm looking for! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Amanda~ Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Holy cow the TM is $$. Could you do this without the TM? I have no idea what to do with it LOL I'm so hopeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Holy cow the TM is $$. Could you do this without the TM? I have no idea what to do with it LOL I'm so hopeless The TM is expensive, but I also think it's invaluable as a tool to teach the material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancer67 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I recieved the TM from the library today. I agree that this is a must have. I asked the library how long I would be able to keep this out. Since it is "old" and the last time it was checked out was 4 years ago, they are going to allow me to keep it indefinitely, unless somebody requests it. YAY:D The student book will be in soon. Maybe another week. So, there are more books in this series by the same author? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I asked the library how long I would be able to keep this out. Since it is "old" and the last time it was checked out was 4 years ago, they are going to allow me to keep it indefinitely, unless somebody requests it. YAY:D So, there are more books in this series by the same author? That's great - maybe they'll decide to sell it at a used book sale :D There are a 8 books in the series - it's designed for 1st through 12th grade. Here's a link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 those who have seen the TM - do you think it covers everything that should be included in an introductory Logic course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
home4school Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 bump...:bigear: From what I gathered scanning this thread, the cheapest TM is to order from the company for $50? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 bump...:bigear: From what I gathered scanning this thread, the cheapest TM is to order from the company for $50? Thanks! That is the least expensive I have found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomOfOneFunOne Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 those who have seen the TM - do you think it covers everything that should be included in an introductory Logic course? I can't really answer that b/c, to be honest, I don't really know. I never had Logic as a student and I depend upon what I hear from reviews to let me know on this topic. I didn't see any review or not many so I just went blind. It is full of good material. It's so thought provoking and interesting to me. My daughter also finds it interesting and our discussions show that. I wish you could get a TOC . . . I wonder if I could scan it. I mean, I know I could scan it but would that break a copyright if I posted it? and could I post it? I'm not sure I know how. If you don't think it would infringe on their intellectual capital, b/c law or not I personally value the authors' right, I would consider scanning it and if someone knew how to post it, I'd try that. Under the circumstances, I think it would only benefit the author if it stimulated interest and possibly sales. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 From what I gathered scanning this thread, the cheapest TM is to order from the company for $50? Cheapest I've found too. Just sent an email to Montclair asking about purchasing it (got the student text off of Amazon). I'm thinking they must think it odd to suddenly have a run on this TM... :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I just received my TM today (from Amazon marketplace, the 1984 edition, probably the last one and only a few bucks cheaper). It's 3 cm thick and spiral-bound. Just to give you all an idea, Chapter 1 is twenty pages, containing 10 "Leading Ideas" with exercises and discussion plans. A few of the exercises look like things that could be photocopied and used as workbook pages, or answers could be written on a separate sheet. There are answers at the end of the chapter. This is going to be fun!! (I hope dd agrees) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Cheapest I've found too. Just sent an email to Montclair asking about purchasing it (got the student text off of Amazon). I'm thinking they must think it odd to suddenly have a run on this TM... :tongue_smilie: :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I wish you could get a TOC QUOTE] I actually have it - I ordered it last week, and it arrived on Friday. I spent the weekend reading about Harry and Co. :tongue_smilie: I think it looks great, but since I have no experience with Logic, I was wonderign how the contents compare to a typical Introductory Logic text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Duplicate post. Edited March 24, 2011 by ELaurie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HootyTooty Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 bumping to ask how this is going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 If you go to Eric you can search by the author's name (Lipman, Matthew) and you can get the teacher's manual and the book for FREE as a PDF. There are a couple other books by the same author. For example, the next book in the series, "Lisa" is also available as a PDF but not the TM. http://www.eric.ed.gov/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 What age is this book most appropriate for? I read the first several pages that were linked above and I LOVED it! Wondering if it might be a good fit for my upcoming 5th grader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 If you go to Eric you can search by the author's name (Lipman, Matthew) and you can get the teacher's manual and the book for FREE as a PDF. There are a couple other books by the same author. For example, the next book in the series, "Lisa" is also available as a PDF but not the TM. http://www.eric.ed.gov/ Wow! Thanks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I just went to the site and downloaded what they have but it is only the introduction to the TM. Did you find the full version somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 If you go to Eric you can search by the author's name (Lipman, Matthew) and you can get the teacher's manual and the book for FREE as a PDF. There are a couple other books by the same author. For example, the next book in the series, "Lisa" is also available as a PDF but not the TM. http://www.eric.ed.gov/ I found the student book, but the only teacher's manual I can find related to it is Teaching Children Philosophical Thinking: An Introduction to the Teacher's Manual for "Harry Stottlemeier's Discovery." The abstract says that a teacher's manual is forthcoming. The file is only 26 pages, while the book (on Amazon) is over 400 pages. Am I missing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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