European vs. American education?

[MeganW]

I have seen several comments in the past few weeks about how European education is so much stronger than an American education.

 

What are the main differences? Is it b/c of the multiple languages they are learning? Is their class size a lot different? Are they teaching math differently than the schools here? Are most of the European countries' educational systems similar to each other, or does it vary widely from country to country?

 

And most importantly, if we are following the WTM guidelines, are my kids getting an education that is as good as a European education? There is a possibility of us moving overseas but I have no feel for the timeframe or particular country, and I need to make sure my kids can compete if they are older, and perhaps decide to seek employment there. Thanks!

[Laura Corin]

It's really hard, because there is no one 'European' education system. For example, the education system is different even between England and Scotland.

 

Laura

[Giraffe]

DH grew up in Turkey and moved to the US in the midst of 7th grade. He has told me that what he was being taught in 7th grade math in the US had already been covered by the 4th grade in Turkey. He stressed about catching up to his classmates in German, only to find out that when the teacher said they were covering the first 4 chapters in the textbook, she meant over the course of the whole year, not that they were in the 4th chapter already.

 

From what I can tell the WTM curriculum seems more on par with what DH relates he learned.

[regentrude]

I know the German system. Much stronger in foreign languages - first language in3rd, second in 6th, with a third language possible. All are taken through high school.

Sciences are taught simultaneously. Biology beginning in 5th, Physics in 6th, chemistry in 7th, all concurrently through highschool.

Math education is more rigorous. There is no compartmentalizing; geometry is taught in bewteen algebra spread out over the years. IN college track schools, 11th and 12 grade are calculus. (Some states have 13 years of school; mine has 12)

There is tracking into different schools beginning in 5th grade. About half the kids attend a college prep track.

 

Interestingly, school days are much shorter. Elementary school gets out between 11 and 12:30.

[MeganW]

Thanks - so helpful! Sounds like WTM + more foreign languages will cover us for now, and we need to reevaluate later.

[MeganW]

Interestingly, school days are much shorter. Elementary school gets out between 11 and 12:30.

 

That really is bizarre! And says a lot about our schools here. How is it possible that they are getting a much better education in a lot less time???

[trying my best]

Russia here :)

In America noticed teachers cater to children much. Our 1st grade as nothing but desks and chairs. Kids come to school to learn in a strict way i would say. Here Teachers provide circle time, hands on time, lots of long-lasting activities... in Russia i remember i would come to school and its more strict and to the point materials without extra kiddy stuff you see here. Our Kindergarten is more like your K and elementary - lost of hands on manipulatives. IN 1st grade i see this is over and no longer practiced. Starting in 1st grade kids are treated as equal as middle or high school. Classes dont really have manipulatuves stuff, no circle time, no kidish stuff.

I think thats one of the reason why Russia has a grade above America for the same year.

I also think that lack of discipline (strict one) is lacking in America. So teachers' time also goes to partially discipline kid's behavior in class.

 

So those 2 things i notices are different - is that starting in 1st grade class rooms no longer resemble K rooms..and 1st grade means business lol no longer playing around. Paper work, books to read, math to do... and such.

Edited February 11, 2011 by trying my best

[Tress]

In The Netherlands:

 

-Teaching to read starts in first grade.

 

-Tracking starts in 7th grade. All students take a national test at the end of 6th grade and this test combined with the evaluation of their teacher determines to what type of school they go.

 

-Then students go to a 4year track, a 5year track or a 6year track. Only the 6year track prepares for university entrance.

 

-From 7th grade up, subjects are taught by a teacher who has a degree in that subject. So the math teacher has a masters degree in Math, etc. The American practice of having the football coach teach physics is mindboggling to me:lol:, unless he happens to have a degree in physics of course :D.

 

-Students take PE in school, for 2-3 hours a week, but there are no school sports teams. Some students are very involved in sports, but this is separate from school and done in their free time.

 

-Sciences are taught simultaneously.

 

-Almost all schools are public funded. Prostestant school, Catholic schools, Moslim schools, secular schools, certain type of educational system (Montessori, Dalton etc) schools. There are only a handful of private schools.

 

Edit: I forgot one of the most important differences: Every student takes state exams at the end of his 4/5/6year track. If you pass the 6year track state exams you can go to any university you want. Your grades at the state exams are not important, just that you passed them. There are no differences in quality between universities. At the university you immediately start your ...you would call it...major. No general English 101, History 101 courses etc. There is only one exception: students who want to become a medical doctor have to attend a lottery, because there are not enough places. There is no lottery for law students (it also doesn't have the prestige that Law school has in America, at my high school a lot of students who did not really know what they wanted to study went to study law...it was considered to be a bit of a loosers study :-)

Edited February 11, 2011 by Tress
forgot something

[Mom in High Heels]

That really is bizarre! And says a lot about our schools here. How is it possible that they are getting a much better education in a lot less time???

 

We live in Germany and the little kids DO get out early in the day. The older kids (at the school just down the street from me) get out at 1pm on Mon and Wed, 3pm on Tues and Thur (with a lunch break from 12-1, which I know because they all go to the McD's just down the street and there is a mad dash back to the school around 10 minutes to 1) and 12 on Fri. They also go to school every other Sat until 1.

[Jamee]

DH grew up in Turkey and moved to the US in the midst of 7th grade. He has told me that what he was being taught in 7th grade math in the US had already been covered by the 4th grade in Turkey. He stressed about catching up to his classmates in German, only to find out that when the teacher said they were covering the first 4 chapters in the textbook, she meant over the course of the whole year, not that they were in the 4th chapter already.

 

From what I can tell the WTM curriculum seems more on par with what DH relates he learned.

 

I taught at a NATO school and had Turkish kids in 5th grade. They were WAY ahead of our American curriculum.

 

I'm not totally familiar with European education, but I do know there is much more accountability to the kids. My Italian students, again 5th grade, were preparing for their big exams that determined their middle school path. I think the biggest issue with American education is the lack of accountablilty/social promotion. There is no need for the kids to do well, they know they're going to be moved on to the next grade. It may not be the PC thing to do, but I think tracking could greatly improve education, allowing teachers to concentrate fully on those who really need it and really challenge those who can be.

[Tress]

I think the biggest issue with American education is the lack of accountablilty/social promotion. There is no need for the kids to do well, they know they're going to be moved on to the next grade.

 

There is no 'social promotion' here. Last year three neighbourhood kids had to repeat their grade (two second graders and a fourth grader). Which caused my dd to be worried that she too had to repeat everything we had done that year :lol:.

 

In 7-12th grade, you are allowed to repeat one year, if you have to repeat another year, you are expelled from school. You can then try to get accepted to another school. Obviously they make allowances for illness, death in the family and such.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Tress
typo

[Tress]

It may not be the PC thing to do, but I think tracking could greatly improve education, allowing teachers to concentrate fully on those who really need it and really challenge those who can be.

 

Once every decade :glare: we have experiments in which children are *not* tracked. And every time the results are the same: the lowest ability students are completely overwhelmed and the highest ability students are bored out of their minds.

 

From what I have read here on this board, Americans are not ever going to accept tracking, but as a foreigner I have trouble imagining a good educational system without tracking.

[patchfire]

-Students take PE in school, for 2-3 hours a week, but there are no school sports teams. Some students are very involved in sports, but this is separate from school and done in their free time.

 

Ohhh, this sounds dreamy. I've long thought that if sports could become a community endeavour, and not linked to the educational system, that it would make a huge difference in US schools. Around where I grew up, one of the county systems cut foreign language, art, music, and physical education for all students rather than cut funding for 7th & 8th grade (American) football. Ughhh.

[kristinannie]

Wow, that stinks! I agree on sports being separate. I don't quite understand how it became so intertwined with schools to begin with.

 

 

First of all, I would love sports to be separate! That is the only reason I am considering sending my kids to PS for high school because in our state, the courts just ruled that homeschooled kids can't participate. I think so much of the time at school is spent thinking about sports. So many kids are "cool" because they play football, etc.

 

Secondly, I really wish that we had tracking in our schools here. That way, people who can realistically go to college could get a better education. I was never challenged in school. I was lazy and bored. One day I realized that I could just show up and get A's. That didn't prepare me for college which was a shock to my lazy system!

[pahansen]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is geography. I was educated in the US, but my college degree was in Russian and Eastern European studies. My geography education came from foreign-born professors who were horrified by the lack of American students' geography knowledge (and sought to rectify the problem the hard way!).

 

US students may do fill-in maps or some such, if they do much geography at all. Our European counterparts are answering questions like, "Starting in the north, name all of the countries/major bodies of water that border (name)." The map needs to be in your head.

 

Like the language issue, the difference does make sense. We have one main language and two countries that border us. Europe? Ha! But that doesn't mean that this is acceptable.

 

I am aiming for a much stronger geography and economics education at our house than our kids would ever get in a public school.

 

--Pamela

[SailorMom]

In The Netherlands:

 

-Teaching to read starts in first grade.

Yes - it starts here in K and 1st as well....

 

-Tracking starts in 7th grade. All students take a national test at the end of 6th grade and this test combined with the evaluation of their teacher determines to what type of school they go.

 

This is frightening to me. My DH never would have made the cut in elementary school, neither would my son if they had kept misdiagnosing his LD's....

 

-Then students go to a 4year track, a 5year track or a 6year track. Only the 6year track prepares for university entrance.

 

Both my DH (who is now a Major in the AF and almost done with his Graduate Degree) and my Ds 13 probably would not have made the cut for the 6 year track. Does this mean that their opportunity for a college education would be gone? Some people just don't get there until after high school.... Also - what about people with the WILL to succeed even if they struggle academically? There are plenty of intelligent people who flunk out of college, and plenty of "normal" to less than "normal" people who excell out of willpower alone....

 

-From 7th grade up, subjects are taught by a teacher who has a degree in that subject. So the math teacher has a masters degree in Math, etc. The American practice of having the football coach teach physics is mindboggling to me:lol:, unless he happens to have a degree in physics of course :D.

 

This is excellent - I think this should be the case from 4th grade on.....

 

-Students take PE in school, for 2-3 hours a week, but there are no school sports teams. Some students are very involved in sports, but this is separate from school and done in their free time.

 

Also - great!

 

-Sciences are taught simultaneously.

 

Not quite sure what is meant here - could you clarify? The US's science education is horrid.....

-Almost all schools are public funded. Prostestant school, Catholic schools, Moslim schools, secular schools, certain type of educational system (Montessori, Dalton etc) schools. There are only a handful of private schools.

 

I personally think the beureaucracy of our government funded schools is part of the problem here.... Not saying that it is in your country - but in the US, anything the govt. gets its hands on is pretty well ruined.

 

Edit: I forgot one of the most important differences: Every student takes state exams at the end of his 4/5/6year track. If you pass the 6year track state exams you can go to any university you want. Your grades at the state exams are not important, just that you passed them. There are no differences in quality between universities. At the university you immediately start your ...you would call it...major. No general English 101, History 101 courses etc. There is only one exception: students who want to become a medical doctor have to attend a lottery, because there are not enough places. There is no lottery for law students (it also doesn't have the prestige that Law school has in America, at my high school a lot of students who did not really know what they wanted to study went to study law...it was considered to be a bit of a loosers study :-)

 

Thank you for the wonderful insight!

[Tress]

Hi Kristy,

 

I certainly don't think having all schools public funded a good thing, I was just mentioning it as a difference :001_smile:.

 

To ease your fears: yes, students can change tracks.

The national test in 6th grade is a test on how well the student has learned the material in grade 1-6th. (BTW, they only test math and language.) It is not strictly an IQtest, so a student who might not be the brightest but works hard can score well.

 

A lot of schools have a combined 7th grade for the 4&5 year track, or the 5&6year track, some even combine the 4&5&6year track in 7th grade..in effect postponing the tracking for a year.

 

A student who finishes the 4-year track and wants to transfer to the 5-year track can do so. He/she has to start at the 4th year of the 5-year track. A student who finishes the 5-year track can transfer to the 6-year track, he/she has to start at the 5th year of the 6-year track.

 

There is also another possibility: after these 4/5/6-year tracks students go to other schools/university. Between these schools there is also the possibility to transfer. My husband took this route, he started at the lowest level (there used to be a level below the 4-year track) and he worked his way up to a masters degree in computer engineering.

 

In all fairness: the government is trying to discourage this, as it is expensive. It is one of the things that worry me, because some people are just late bloomers like my husband.

 

Concerning LD: I have no experience with LD's, so I can't really comment on that. I know that schools try to accommodate students with LD's, but I suspect that it will make it very difficult for students with severe LD to go straight through the 6-year track.

 

HTH, feel free to keep asking questions,

[freerange]

-Sciences are taught simultaneously.

 

Not quite sure what is meant here - could you clarify? The US's science education is horrid.....

 

Thank you for the wonderful insight!

Sciences are taught as Physics, Chemistry & Biology - seperate subjects; each taught every year, just like history, maths, geography, etc.

 

In the UK over the last 10? years, many schools have combined sciences - students who choose to continue studying science subjects at 16+ then have a mountain to climb in the steep difference between GCSE & A level.

[MeganW]

Sciences are taught as Physics, Chemistry & Biology - seperate subjects; each taught every year, just like history, maths, geography, etc.

QUOTE]

 

So do you mean that it would be like this?

Freshman year

- physics 1

- chemistry 1

- biology 1

Soph year

- physics 2

- chemistry 2

- biology 2

Jr year

- physics 3

- chemistry 3

- biology 3

Sr year

- physics 4

- chemistry 4

- biology 4

 

PLUS 3 languages, plus math, plus history / economics / government, music, art, plus everything else they teach in high school???? How in the world do they manage to do all that? That does help me understand why America is so far behind in math & science!

[Carla]

I have one thing that I learned that was interesting about schooling in "Europe". We have a close friend who grew up in Italy. He was explaining how they did history chronologically and rotationally in the school system. Each child in Italy, he said, went through the history cycle three times during their school years. Sounds pretty classical, no? ;) He was quite surprised that we homeschool using that same method. :)

[Flux]

US students may do fill-in maps or some such, if they do much geography at all. Our European counterparts are answering questions like, "Starting in the north, name all of the countries/major bodies of water that border (name)." The map needs to be in your head.

 

Thanks for this!:D Mental math is obviously important, but I hadn't quite made the leap to taking the map off the page/globe. We will be sure to focus on some "mental" geography! I printed the part in bold and taped it up to one of our wall maps as a reminder for myself.

[Laura Corin]

 

So do you mean that it would be like this?

Freshman year

- physics 1

- chemistry 1

- biology 1

Soph year

- physics 2

- chemistry 2

- biology 2

Jr year

- physics 3

- chemistry 3

- biology 3

Sr year

- physics 4

- chemistry 4

- biology 4

 

PLUS 3 languages, plus math, plus history / economics / government, music, art, plus everything else they teach in high school???? How in the world do they manage to do all that? That does help me understand why America is so far behind in math & science!

 

In the UK, college-track students choose eight - ten subjects to study from ages 14 to 16, then narrow it down to five subjects to study from age 16 to 18. So, for example, the student might study English, Maths, French, Physics, Chemistry, Bio, Geography, Music and History for two years. At the end of the two years, he might choose to continue with Physics, Chemistry, Maths, English and Music.

 

So students specialise earlier: there are no general courses in English universities and the university degree takes three, not four years.

 

Laura

[Haiku]

My observations from living in Western Europe:

 

1) Uniforms. The kids wear uniforms to school and no one bats an eye about it. The kids are in school to learn, not to be cool or express their individuality.

 

2) No school sports. Again, the kids are in school to learn, not to play. There are still cliques but there is none of the sports-star bs that goes on in America.

 

3) The teachers don't particularly care what kind of learner you are or how delicately you need to be handled to perform your best. The expectation is that every child will master the curriculum, whatever they have to do to do that. Parents work with their kids when they are having trouble instead of expecting the school to fix it.

 

4) DISCIPLINE. If you misbehave, they throw you out. Then you have to try to get into another school. Being thrown out of school and not having to go to school are not viewed as desirable. If you don't graduate high school, your life will pretty much suck, and the kids know it.

 

5) Discipline. I'll repeat if because I think it's hugely important and a huge difference in American schools. In America, the schools think they have to work with, fix, and cater to kids with crappy attitudes and discipline problems. The teachers think they have to make up for poor parenting, low income, family troubles, etc. Where I lived in Europe, the teachers' expectation was that kids came to school to learn and they darn well better do it. If your home life sucked, buck up.

 

6) No touchy-feely instruction. Things are much more classically based. Here's the information, learn it. Memorize it. Know it. No playing around with fuzzy group projects and minimally helpful hands-on learning. You sit and learn the material. Period.

 

7) Expectations are high.

 

8) Languages are stressed.

 

American schools seem to have this attitude that kids need to be dragged kicking and screaming to knowledge and coerced into learning it by making it fun and relevant. The schools I have experience with in Europe (and Africa, for that matter) have the idea that kids can learn the material and will if directed to.

 

American schools make me crazy.

 

Tara

[SailorMom]

Hi Kristy,

 

I certainly don't think having all schools public funded a good thing, I was just mentioning it as a difference :001_smile:.

 

To ease your fears: yes, students can change tracks.

The national test in 6th grade is a test on how well the student has learned the material in grade 1-6th. (BTW, they only test math and language.) It is not strictly an IQtest, so a student who might not be the brightest but works hard can score well.

 

A lot of schools have a combined 7th grade for the 4&5 year track, or the 5&6year track, some even combine the 4&5&6year track in 7th grade..in effect postponing the tracking for a year.

 

A student who finishes the 4-year track and wants to transfer to the 5-year track can do so. He/she has to start at the 4th year of the 5-year track. A student who finishes the 5-year track can transfer to the 6-year track, he/she has to start at the 5th year of the 6-year track.

 

There is also another possibility: after these 4/5/6-year tracks students go to other schools/university. Between these schools there is also the possibility to transfer. My husband took this route, he started at the lowest level (there used to be a level below the 4-year track) and he worked his way up to a masters degree in computer engineering.

 

In all fairness: the government is trying to discourage this, as it is expensive. It is one of the things that worry me, because some people are just late bloomers like my husband.

 

Concerning LD: I have no experience with LD's, so I can't really comment on that. I know that schools try to accommodate students with LD's, but I suspect that it will make it very difficult for students with severe LD to go straight through the 6-year track.

 

HTH, feel free to keep asking questions,

 

Ah - that makes more sense! I agree - if the govt. tries to discourage what your DH did - the system would be very restrictive....

[SailorMom]

My observations from living in Western Europe:

 

1) Uniforms. The kids wear uniforms to school and no one bats an eye about it. The kids are in school to learn, not to be cool or express their individuality.

 

I think this should absolutely be the case in US public schools....

 

2) No school sports. Again, the kids are in school to learn, not to play. There are still cliques but there is none of the sports-star bs that goes on in America.

 

Agree with this as well....

 

3) The teachers don't particularly care what kind of learner you are or how delicately you need to be handled to perform your best. The expectation is that every child will master the curriculum, whatever they have to do to do that. Parents work with their kids when they are having trouble instead of expecting the school to fix it.

 

4) DISCIPLINE. If you misbehave, they throw you out. Then you have to try to get into another school. Being thrown out of school and not having to go to school are not viewed as desirable. If you don't graduate high school, your life will pretty much suck, and the kids know it.

 

5) Discipline. I'll repeat if because I think it's hugely important and a huge difference in American schools. In America, the schools think they have to work with, fix, and cater to kids with crappy attitudes and discipline problems. The teachers think they have to make up for poor parenting, low income, family troubles, etc. Where I lived in Europe, the teachers' expectation was that kids came to school to learn and they darn well better do it. If your home life sucked, buck up.

 

6) No touchy-feely instruction. Things are much more classically based. Here's the information, learn it. Memorize it. Know it. No playing around with fuzzy group projects and minimally helpful hands-on learning. You sit and learn the material. Period.

 

7) Expectations are high.

 

8) Languages are stressed.

 

American schools seem to have this attitude that kids need to be dragged kicking and screaming to knowledge and coerced into learning it by making it fun and relevant. The schools I have experience with in Europe (and Africa, for that matter) have the idea that kids can learn the material and will if directed to.

 

American schools make me crazy.

 

Me too. I absolutely agree with "all of the above".

Tara

 

Most parents here think I am nuts and crazy mean because of the discipline and expectations I have of my sons. I am not touchy-feely, I do not sugar coat anything. Anyway - I really think the PC attitude and the "make it fun" school is a huge problem. Learning is work. Not that science and history can't be fun, and that classic books can't be excellent reads, but that shouldn't be the goal.

[Momling]

My observations from living in Western Europe:

 

1) Uniforms. The kids wear uniforms to school and no one bats an eye about it. The kids are in school to learn, not to be cool or express their individuality.

 

2) No school sports. Again, the kids are in school to learn, not to play. There are still cliques but there is none of the sports-star bs that goes on in America.

 

3) The teachers don't particularly care what kind of learner you are or how delicately you need to be handled to perform your best. The expectation is that every child will master the curriculum, whatever they have to do to do that. Parents work with their kids when they are having trouble instead of expecting the school to fix it.

 

4) DISCIPLINE. If you misbehave, they throw you out. Then you have to try to get into another school. Being thrown out of school and not having to go to school are not viewed as desirable. If you don't graduate high school, your life will pretty much suck, and the kids know it.

 

5) Discipline. I'll repeat if because I think it's hugely important and a huge difference in American schools. In America, the schools think they have to work with, fix, and cater to kids with crappy attitudes and discipline problems. The teachers think they have to make up for poor parenting, low income, family troubles, etc. Where I lived in Europe, the teachers' expectation was that kids came to school to learn and they darn well better do it. If your home life sucked, buck up.

 

6) No touchy-feely instruction. Things are much more classically based. Here's the information, learn it. Memorize it. Know it. No playing around with fuzzy group projects and minimally helpful hands-on learning. You sit and learn the material. Period.

 

7) Expectations are high.

 

8) Languages are stressed.

 

American schools seem to have this attitude that kids need to be dragged kicking and screaming to knowledge and coerced into learning it by making it fun and relevant. The schools I have experience with in Europe (and Africa, for that matter) have the idea that kids can learn the material and will if directed to.

 

American schools make me crazy.

 

Tara

 

I taught elementary school English in Poland, and my partner went through the Polish school system and #3-8 are definitely true. They did not wear uniforms and school sports were popular. My partner does say that it was, at times, a cruel system and lots of kids weren't successful. Also, with the high expectations and rigidity, it did encourage a lot of cheating in order to be successful. Still, at least the focus was on learning actual content rather than the bizarre "progressive" education which I was raised on in elementary school (unit studies on 'Thanksgiving' and 'our neighborhood' rather than on history or science). In my opinion, though, the best educational philosophy to model a school on is a good Montessori... the tracking is individual and variable, the focus is content heavy, it is gentle without being insipid or 'touchy-feely'...

[pahansen]

Thanks for this!:D Mental math is obviously important, but I hadn't quite made the leap to taking the map off the page/globe. We will be sure to focus on some "mental" geography! I printed the part in bold and taped it up to one of our wall maps as a reminder for myself.

 

Your kids are a great age for The Scrambled States of America and The Scrambled States of America Talent Show by Laurie Keller. My son just absorbed the first book at age 5, and before I knew it he was nibbling his graham crackers and saying things like, "Mom look! It's shaped like Idaho!"

 

Keller's personification of all the states is hilarious, and it's a way more fun (and sneaky) way to learn the geography of the US than looking at traditional maps. I never really "taught" it, but when they're little, kids soak that kind of stuff up like sponges. They're probably better than I am at naming states based solely on their outlines.

 

Good luck!

--Pamela

[trying my best]

Another reason America probably behind is amount of home school work!

Seriously guys! have you seen Russian homework in middle school or hight school? Its if the kids already in collage. I remember sitting till 11pm every night just to finish book reports, geography maps, math, writing, biology - every day its easy 5 hours of home school work!

That really makes teacher's job easy if a child doing 1/2 of the class at home as practice. And that doesnt start in middle school - it starts in elementary as well.

[MeganW]

I have been looking at the National Curriculum from the UK. I don't even understand what some of these courses are. :001_huh:

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Curriculum_(England,_Wales_and_Northern_Ireland)

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

 

-Sciences are taught simultaneously.

 

 

 

I am very intrigued by this- I know this was addressed in another post but is there a currculum that combines them? Or is it 3 seperate textbooks? I saw this on somebodys siggy for a while (I forgot who) and wanted to ask her about it but for some reason never did.

[Laura Corin]

I have been looking at the National Curriculum from the UK. I don't even understand what some of these courses are. :001_huh:

 

 

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

I am very intrigued by this- I know this was addressed in another post but is there a currculum that combines them? Or is it 3 seperate textbooks? I saw this on somebodys siggy for a while (I forgot who) and wanted to ask her about it but for some reason never did.

 

You have three separate text books and the sciences are (in good schools) taught separately by specialist teachers. Calvin has three lessons of chemistry and three of physics each week; he has already passed the necessary exam for biology.

 

Laura

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

You have three separate text books and the sciences are (in good schools) taught separately by specialist teachers. Calvin has three lessons of chemistry and three of physics each week; he has already passed the necessary exam for biology.

 

Laura

 

 

I am wondering how this could be implemented in a homeschool setting. Would it be as easy as getting all the books,doing a lesson from each and thats that? Dd is going into a science major and I think this could be do-able, although expensive. (good thing I have 2 years yet before high school) Currently we are using Apologia (and I am planning on getting the red wagon tutorials) Would that work? What about the math involved? She will be in Geometry in 9th (Algebra 1 in 8th) or should I do Algebra 1, Algebra 2 then Geometry???

 

Sorry not trying to steal this thread, it just has me thinking ;)

[MeganW]

I have been looking at the National Curriculum from the UK. I don't even understand what some of these courses are. :001_huh:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Curriculum_(England,_Wales_and_Northern_Ireland)

 

 

Information & Communication Technology

 

vs

 

Design & Technology

 

vs

 

Art & Design

 

 

Boy I hope I'm not going to feel really stupid when I read the answers! :)

[MeganW]

I am wondering how this could be implemented in a homeschool setting. Would it be as easy as getting all the books,doing a lesson from each and thats that? Dd is going into a science major and I think this could be do-able, although expensive. (good thing I have 2 years yet before high school) Currently we are using Apologia (and I am planning on getting the red wagon tutorials) Would that work? What about the math involved? She will be in Geometry in 9th (Algebra 1 in 8th) or should I do Algebra 1, Algebra 2 then Geometry???

 

Sorry not trying to steal this thread, it just has me thinking ;)

 

I was wondering about the same thing. Can you even BUY homeschool textbooks here that keep going up the levels? Ex - I've heard of Chem I & Chem II, but nothing further.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I was wondering about the same thing. Can you even BUY homeschool textbooks here that keep going up the levels? Ex - I've heard of Chem I & Chem II, but nothing further.

 

 

Thats what I was just thinking about. I know Apologia has 1 book of Advanced everything, but there has to be something if you dig hard enough, right? I'm going to email Apologia and see what they recommend. Also start looking at other advanced science curriculum, or if all else dual enroll at a CC?

[Laura Corin]

I am wondering how this could be implemented in a homeschool setting. Would it be as easy as getting all the books,doing a lesson from each and thats that? Dd is going into a science major and I think this could be do-able, although expensive. (good thing I have 2 years yet before high school) Currently we are using Apologia (and I am planning on getting the red wagon tutorials) Would that work? What about the math involved? She will be in Geometry in 9th (Algebra 1 in 8th) or should I do Algebra 1, Algebra 2 then Geometry???

 

Sorry not trying to steal this thread, it just has me thinking ;)

 

Physics and chemistry would be harder, because the text books would assume lots of equipment/chemicals/fume hoods.

 

As far as maths levels: the UK does mixed maths all the way through, so I don't know where you would have to be in US maths terms to start the physics course.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

Thats what I was just thinking about. I know Apologia has 1 book of Advanced everything, but there has to be something if you dig hard enough, right? I'm going to email Apologia and see what they recommend. Also start looking at other advanced science curriculum, or if all else dual enroll at a CC?

 

Calvin only has 3 x 45 minutes a week of chemistry for two years. Perhaps one year of US high school chemistry is equivalent to this.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

Information & Communication Technology

 

vs

 

Design & Technology

 

vs

 

Art & Design

 

 

Boy I hope I'm not going to feel really stupid when I read the answers! :)

 

Design and technology is 'shop'. Art and design is 'art'. I think.

 

Laura

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Physics and chemistry would be harder, because the text books would assume lots of equipment/chemicals/fume hoods.

 

As far as maths levels: the UK does mixed maths all the way through, so I don't know where you would have to be in US maths terms to start the physics course.

 

Laura

 

Thats why I am thinking Apologia, that curriculum is set up for a home situation. They have lab kits you can buy for home use... I like this idea- and better yet dd wants to do this. She loves science. Looking at the Apologia list there are 7 possible high school science courses, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Advanced Biology, Marine Biology, Advanced Chemistry and Advanced Physics. So if we did Biology and Chemistry in 9th, Physics and Advanced Biology in 10th, Marine Biology and Advanced Chemistry in 11th and Advanced Physics in 12 that would more than have her on track to becoming a vet. I think I would do Algebra 1, Algebra 2 then Geometry just to be safe though.

[AngelBee]

I know the German system. Much stronger in foreign languages - first language in3rd, second in 6th, with a third language possible. All are taken through high school.

Sciences are taught simultaneously. Biology beginning in 5th, Physics in 6th, chemistry in 7th, all concurrently through highschool.

Math education is more rigorous. There is no compartmentalizing; geometry is taught in bewteen algebra spread out over the years. IN college track schools, 11th and 12 grade are calculus. (Some states have 13 years of school; mine has 12)

There is tracking into different schools beginning in 5th grade. About half the kids attend a college prep track.

 

Interestingly, school days are much shorter. Elementary school gets out between 11 and 12:30.

That is super interesting about shorter days yet more academics. :)

[trying my best]

Russia has 11 years of schooling yet 1 year ahead of America :tongue_smilie:

[AngelBee]

Wow, that stinks! I agree on sports being separate. I don't quite understand how it became so intertwined with schools to begin with.

Maybe because of finances of families. Some children would never be able to participate.

 

Also better to have kids participate in sports then wander the streets while their parents are still at work.

 

I coach in a working class/poor school so I may be jaded. :)

[MeganW]

Design and technology is 'shop'. Art and design is 'art'. I think.

 

Laura

 

Aah - that makes me feel better! I thought they were all different forms of computer training!

[trying my best]

Maybe because of finances of families. Some children would never be able to participate.

 

Also better to have kids participate in sports then wander the streets while their parents are still at work.

 

I coach in a working class/poor school so I may be jaded. :)

In Russia all major sports school are FREE!!

 

for example if you are interested in sending your child to gymnastics. Your would consider a Sport school. You kid would go to normal school then will go to the Sport school in the evening. Sport schools are free. They even train for Olympics there. Soccer, figure scating Sport Schools are FREE also!

[MeganW]

Maybe because of finances of families. Some children would never be able to participate.

 

Also better to have kids participate in sports then wander the streets while their parents are still at work.

 

I coach in a working class/poor school so I may be jaded. :)

 

I live in a very vanilla, upper middle-class suburb. I hear the same reasons here.

 

- "If the schools don't provide it, some kids wouldn't get to participate!"

- "With Americans being so overweight, we need to encourage exercise!"

- "Give the kids something productive to do so they won't be getting into trouble!"

[AngelBee]

In Russia all major sports school are FREE!!

 

for example if you are interested in sending your child to gymnastics. Your would consider a Sport school. You kid would go to normal school then will go to the Sport school in the evening. Sport schools are free. They even train for Olympics there. Soccer, figure scating Sport Schools are FREE also!

I had heard that before. Do they live on a campus?

[MeganW]

In Russia all major sports school are FREE!!

 

for example if you are interested in sending your child to gymnastics. Your would consider a Sport school. You kid would go to normal school then will go to the Sport school in the evening. Sport schools are free. They even train for Olympics there. Soccer, figure scating Sport Schools are FREE also!

 

 

But that's kind of different - it wouldn't be accessible to everyone. They are training kids who are likely to be doing their sport long-term. I assume, anyway.

[AngelBee]

I live in a very vanilla, upper middle-class suburb. I hear the same reasons here.

 

- "If the schools don't provide it, some kids wouldn't get to participate!"

- "With Americans being so overweight, we need to encourage exercise!"

- "Give the kids something productive to do so they won't be getting into trouble!"

I do agree with bottom 2 even in upper class communities, but not the first.

 

People who have the means will find a way for their children to partcipate. I usually just takes money :)

 

I trained at one of the top competition dance studios in the country. A handful of us were there because our families sacrificed greatly. The rest....lots of money and something ritzy to do. :tongue_smilie:

[beachpotato]

I love this thread! :bigear:

 

-From 7th grade up, subjects are taught by a teacher who has a degree in that subject. So the math teacher has a masters degree in Math, etc. The American practice of having the football coach teach physics is mindboggling to me:lol:, unless he happens to have a degree in physics of course :D.

 

In California, a physics teacher would need a bachelor's degree in physical science, and usually goes for another postgraduate year in education. Often the postgrad year is a master's in education, but it's rare that s/he would get a master's/Ph.D. in science. Other states are similar, I'm sure.