Daughter of Tiger Mother Responds

[goldberry]

http://www.parentdish.com/2011/01/18/tiger-mom-amy-chau-daughter-defense/?icid=maing%7Cmain5%7Cdl5%7Csec1_lnk5%7C37040

 

I thought this was interesting.

[Laurie4b]

Thanks for posting! Great sense of humor there. Coming from an 18 year old? Most of us consider ourselves blessed if our 18 year olds are grateful for our parenting style.

[stripe]

The younger one was also shown in the NBC Nightly News piece about the family.

[Sophia]

http://www.parentdish.com/2011/01/18/tiger-mom-amy-chau-daughter-defense/?icid=maing%7Cmain5%7Cdl5%7Csec1_lnk5%7C37040

 

I thought this was interesting.

 

More than interesting...that was fantastic!

I love loyalty in families.

Amy Chau is blessed.

[deacongirl]

I would be interested to see how they feel when they are 30. or 40.

[Sarah CB]

I would be interested to see how they feel when they are 30. or 40.

 

Why? It's usually in the teens/early twenties when the kids are most critical and wanting to break away from their parents. By the time they're 30 or 40 they've gained some perspective and an appreciation for their parents. I think it says a lot that an 18 year old is happy with the way her mother raised her.

[ktgrok]

Why? It's usually in the teens/early twenties when the kids are most critical and wanting to break away from their parents. By the time they're 30 or 40 they've gained some perspective and an appreciation for their parents. I think it says a lot that an 18 year old is happy with the way her mother raised her.

 

Or she just doesn't have the perspective yet to see how things could have been different.

 

Granted, i agree that a lot of the drama about this book came from not getting the humor or culture of the family. For instance in Irish and Italian families there is often a lot of yelling. (I'm scottish, but same idea in my house too). So if you grow up and are constantly hearing yelling and know that it doesn't mean anything awful,that everyone is just LOUD, you are not traumatized when your mom yells at you. But if you were not used to it, and visiting for the day you would be shocked. Heck, I can remember times when I told my son I was going to chop him up and toss him in the ocean. yup, I said that. I was not particularly upset, just frustrated. He did not actually think he was in mortal danger, and in fact grinned as he helped me clean up the mess he had made. But if you took just the words, and not the whole relationship, you would think I was a psychopath.

 

That said I think the more damaging stuff in the book was the idea that you can't be happy without winning, without being in competition. Success is great, but on your own terms, not societies. I get wanting someone to work hard at something, but let them pick what that something is. i see no point in saying that violin is more important than theatre, just because society values it more.

[linders]

As a PP said, children are usually older before they realize the good things their parents offered. Here, the daughter, at 18, already has the maturity to look at her upbringing with some perspective. In particular, it struck me that she even realized that her "effort" at a card wasn't much of an effort.

 

How often do we mislead our children by gushing over a so-so effort? I watch it every day and have been guilty of it myself. That is an important point I've taken from Chua's style, that there is a greater long-term value in praising only sincere effort than every little thing a kid does.

[deacongirl]

I just don't think an 18-yr. old has much perspective at.all. And I think it would be very difficult to admit to the world, or even yourself, the impact of Amy Chua's style of parenting when you were still in high school and had yet to live away from home--let alone go to college, get married, and become a mother yourself. I have read enough thoughtful replies from Asian adults on this topic to think that the author's daughter's opinion may evolve on this--as well as her freedom to express her true feelings.

 

Also--Amy Chua is far from the first person to bring attn. to over-praising--others have done it more thoughtfully and more persuasively. I don't over-praise my kids or my students. I think self-esteem comes from setting and achieving goals. Shaming has no value IMO.

[goldberry]

I liked hearing her comments about the birthday card incident. It made perfect sense that it didn't traumatize her because SHE KNEW she didn't invest herself in it. She knew it was something she threw together.

 

That was one of the incidents that bothered me originally.

[NanceXToo]

It wouldn't be so terribly far-fetched to throw the phrase "stockholm syndrome" out there, would it? :P

[Pink Fairy]

Or she just doesn't have the perspective yet to see how things could have been different.

 

Granted, i agree that a lot of the drama about this book came from not getting the humor or culture of the family. For instance in Irish and Italian families there is often a lot of yelling. (I'm scottish, but same idea in my house too). So if you grow up and are constantly hearing yelling and know that it doesn't mean anything awful,that everyone is just LOUD, you are not traumatized when your mom yells at you. But if you were not used to it, and visiting for the day you would be shocked. Heck, I can remember times when I told my son I was going to chop him up and toss him in the ocean. yup, I said that. I was not particularly upset, just frustrated. He did not actually think he was in mortal danger, and in fact grinned as he helped me clean up the mess he had made. But if you took just the words, and not the whole relationship, you would think I was a psychopath.

 

That said I think the more damaging stuff in the book was the idea that you can't be happy without winning, without being in competition. Success is great, but on your own terms, not societies. I get wanting someone to work hard at something, but let them pick what that something is. i see no point in saying that violin is more important than theatre, just because society values it more.

 

Well said. :iagree:

[Sparkle]

I just don't think an 18-yr. old has much perspective at.all. And I think it would be very difficult to admit to the world, or even yourself, the impact of Amy Chua's style of parenting when you were still in high school and had yet to live away from home--let alone go to college, get married, and become a mother yourself. I have read enough thoughtful replies from Asian adults on this topic to think that the author's daughter's opinion may evolve on this--as well as her freedom to express her true feelings.

 

:iagree: It's nice to see her defending her mother, and I'm glad she has a sense of humor about her upbringing. I'd be curious to know if she ends up raising her children the same way, though.

[lamamaloca]

Why? It's usually in the teens/early twenties when the kids are most critical and wanting to break away from their parents. By the time they're 30 or 40 they've gained some perspective and an appreciation for their parents. I think it says a lot that an 18 year old is happy with the way her mother raised her.

 

I disagree. My husband was raised in an abusive home, and it wasn't until he and his siblings were quite a bit older that they could acknowledge how abnormal and unhealthy their upbringing was. At 18 he was still getting regularly beat with the belt, after he'd moved back home after flunking out of college. Some of his siblings STILL can't acknowledge the problems in how they were raised, even with their dad in prison for child molestation (he never molested his own daughters, but molested their friends and his foster daughter and now a granddaughter). The problems in that household went far beyond that! However, it was normal for them and since they were intentionally isolated from other people, weren't allowed to have sleepovers, etc., they didn't realize how abnormal it was.

Edited January 19, 2011 by lamamaloca

[Colleen in NS]

http://www.parentdish.com/2011/01/18/tiger-mom-amy-chau-daughter-defense/?icid=maing%7Cmain5%7Cdl5%7Csec1_lnk5%7C37040

 

I thought this was interesting.

 

Me too! Now I've got the book on hold at my library - I'm 14th in line! Just from the couple of articles I read, I detect a great sense of humour, AND a great sense of knowing where to draw various lines of when and when not to push.

 

I think it says a lot that an 18 year old is happy with the way her mother raised her.

 

:iagree:

 

they didn't realize how abnormal it was.

 

I think Sarah's point was that this particular 18yo is *happy* with how she was raised. The daughter certainly was eloquent in painting a picture of what her childhood was like.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Colleen in NS

[lamamaloca]

I think Sarah's point was that this particular 18yo is *happy* with how she was raised. The daughter certainly was eloquent in painting a picture of what her childhood was like.

 

I was just agreeing that even if she is happy with it now, her perspective may change as she ages. I don't know that it will, and I do think that the published excerpt likely did a disservice to the book (which I'd like to read), but I just don't think that it is conclusive that because the 18yo is defending her mother when her parenting was attacked, that this is an accurate picture of the quality of the parenting or the effect it had on the child. Children will often defend their parents to outsiders, even when the parents are in the wrong. My husband and his siblings at 18 would have defended their parents' parenting. Hell, in middle and high school my husband would get in fistfights because other kids would see the bruises on him while he was changing in gym class, they say "your parents beat you," and he'd beat them up to prove that his parents didn't.

 

I should clarify that I doubt this mother was abusive in the way my husband's family was, I just don't think that we can take the words of her 18 year old as clear proof that it was all just fine.

Edited January 19, 2011 by lamamaloca

[GinaPagnato]

The daughter's response doesn't surprise me. My parents were immigrants, and I totally understood where the Tiger Mom was coming from. Did I resent it when I was young? Yup. Am I glad they drew hard lines and expected excellence from me? Nope. It wasn't a matter of "doing your best", it was that A's were expected all the time. And that's what I brought home.

[deacongirl]

From the NYT actual review of the book:

"In truth, Ms. Chua’s memoir is about one little narcissist’s book-length search for happiness...And what she uses “Chinese mother†to mean is this: driven, snobbish and hellbent on raising certifiably Grade A children...

Wherever she is in this slickly well-shaped story, Ms. Chua never fails to make herself its center of attention. When her older daughter, Sophia, was a baby, “she basically slept, ate and watched me have writer’s block until she was a year old.†(The italics here are mine.) “Sophia,†she later explains, “you’re just like I was in my family.†When she pitches what’s already become her most notorious fit over the girls’ amateurishly made birthday cards, Ms. Chua declares, “I spend half my salary on stupid sticker and eraser party favors†for their birthdays, adding “I deserve better than this.†And when Jed fails to honor Ms. Chua’s birthday with reservations at a good enough restaurant, and the family ends up at a so-so one, he too is in hot water."

[deacongirl]

and from the comments on the actual book review:

"...I saw the results of it over and over again when I worked in adolescent chemical dependency rehab. To make a child's perception of his parents' love or his/her self-respect entirely dependent on accomplishing some goal or being number one is to destroy that child's soul. This is especially so if the underpinning reasons lie in the direction of making the parents look good. To be sure, self-respect (unlike the nebulous "self-esteem") has to be earned through accomplishing goals and overcoming adversities; but the goals have to be reasonably attainable and the adversities challenging without being too overwhelming. All I see in Ms Chua's formulaic methods is a recipe for discouragement, self-destain, and assuming the goals are reached and adversities overcome, incredible, horrific loneliness."

[Colleen in NS]

I was just agreeing that even if she is happy with it now, her perspective may change as she ages.

 

Yes, it could, but I'm just comparing it to my own 18 year-old-ness - I could never have, at that age, written such a clear and detailed account of my childhood, with such well-expressed opinions about that childhood. I'm positively impressed with how she expressed her opinions. That's what makes me think she really is happy with her upbringing and may continue to be.

 

When she pitches what’s already become her most notorious fit over the girls’ amateurishly made birthday cards, Ms. Chua declares, “I spend half my salary on stupid sticker and eraser party favors†for their birthdays, adding “I deserve better than this.†And when Jed fails to honor Ms. Chua’s birthday with reservations at a good enough restaurant, and the family ends up at a so-so one, he too is in hot water."

 

I haven't read the book yet, but even this makes me picture a woman with a great sense of humour and a sense of confidence about how to work with her family. I mean, there were other comments about her comforting her nervous child, too! I can't wait to read the whole book.

 

All I see in Ms Chua's formulaic methods is a recipe for discouragement, self-destain, and assuming the goals are reached and adversities overcome, incredible, horrific loneliness."

 

I guess it's a cultural difference.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

From the NYT actual review of the book:

"In truth, Ms. Chua’s memoir is about one little narcissist’s book-length search for happiness...And what she uses “Chinese mother†to mean is this: driven, snobbish and hellbent on raising certifiably Grade A children...

Wherever she is in this slickly well-shaped story, Ms. Chua never fails to make herself its center of attention. When her older daughter, Sophia, was a baby, “she basically slept, ate and watched me have writer’s block until she was a year old.†(The italics here are mine.) “Sophia,†she later explains, “you’re just like I was in my family.†When she pitches what’s already become her most notorious fit over the girls’ amateurishly made birthday cards, Ms. Chua declares, “I spend half my salary on stupid sticker and eraser party favors†for their birthdays, adding “I deserve better than this.†And when Jed fails to honor Ms. Chua’s birthday with reservations at a good enough restaurant, and the family ends up at a so-so one, he too is in hot water."

 

I don't know if I agree with this. It's a memoir...of course she's at the center of the story.

[asta]

Has anyone here ever really known or grown up around a traditional Chinese family? I grew up with a family that had emigrated from Hong Kong. The situation wasn't all that different. The kids are all normal, successful, loving adults (with great kids!).

 

I know I say this a lot on these boards, but I find that it is dangerous to look at and judge other cultures through "western" eyes. It simply doesn't work. (And is a large part of why the American military gets so bogged down in military and diplomatic issues abroad - but I digress) Whether one agrees or disagrees with this woman, or wishes to argue "she lives in the US now, she should be living and behaving in accordance with American cultural morés" -- she is operating in the manner in which she thinks, and that manner is Chinese.

 

 

a

[Lucy in Australia]

I find that it is dangerous to look at and judge other cultures through "western" eyes

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: