justamouse Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-goulston-md/how-america-messed-up-its_b_802137.html To bring it into sharper focus, consider that at the exact moment that you as a parent bail out your child from facing the consequences of their screw-ups and taking full responsibility for them, literally millions of children in this world the same age as your child are taking full responsibility for their actions and becoming smarter, stronger and wiser. Within the next 10 to 20 years, those children (from China, India and elsewhere) will become your child's boss, and they won't bail out or accept your child's excuses. Instead, they will fire your children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca VA Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Excellent article! I think every parent should read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy in Australia Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Thank you very much for sharing this article. I am currently watching with dismay the downward spiral of a few of my friends' children (a little older than my eldest) and this article is spot on as far as they are concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 All well and good but I think it's kind of funny that this comes at a time of massive federal bail-outs and more talk about massive, expensive government programs designed to "help" people (which would assume a state of helplessness or entitlement). I recently saw a new program about adults whose strategy to "get over "not having enough money to pay their mortgage was to just not pay thier mortgage. They know the banks are overwhelmed and probably won't kick them out- they get "free" rent for many months- or years- while they "get back on their feet." One of the families being interveiwed went out to Outback Steak often because of the "stress" of not being able to pay their mortgage. Seriously. And what about inflated grades? And so many, many other things that are culturally o.k. right now. I take issue with the statement that "children around the world are taking full responsibility..." What does that even mean? Children usually don't take full resposnisilbity- that's why they are children. Perhaps he means that they work harder, are willing to sacrifice more, have a stronger sense of purpose and a smaller sense of entitlement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirth Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 it wasn't a political statement. anywhoooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirth Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 I know. I was remarking on how people who normally may not see things the same way happen to agree, or at least used the same words. Yeah, I thought that was good. :D Wisdom comes from everywhere--or, perhaps I should say wisdom can come from any political party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I'm not sure I want to blame the problem on baby boomer parents who spoil their Gen Y kids. (Whatever happened to all the complaining about Gen X, spoiled kids of baby boomers? I'm an X myself...) For one thing most of the boomers are now grandparents. I mean, yes, we have a serious problem about entitlement in our culture, and I agree with him that parents shouldn't bail out their children when things go badly. But I'm not going to say that it's the boomers' fault; it's a lot of things. (Hm, my Gen Y brother is the most stable and responsible and wealthy of any of us kids...would Goulston blame my boomer parents for loaning us money when we spent most of 2009 without income? Did they 'bail us out' or did they 'help us through a rough patch'?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-goulston-md/how-america-messed-up-its_b_802137.html AMEN!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I don't blame baby boomers. But then I don't think my generation has a huge sense of entitlement either. If anything I think baby boomers have MORE of one than mine. They want social security, health care, affordable housing, and so forth. I don't know anyone my age who really expects any of that stuff. We pretty much figure the old folks will have spent it all before we get any. Oh well. As for college. I don't think there has been rioting in America over tuition. Picketing, yeah. But there is a difference between entitlement and expecting promises to be kept. My parents and grandparents, my self and dh have paid taxes for years and now we hear it's been mismanaged or the govt has just decided to change plans and our generation or the next is just SOL. Oh and cost will go up and so will taxes, but we'll get less. It's not as though even before tuition rise kids were graduating without debt or out of pocket expense. Is it entitlement to expect the institutions our taxes were taken to support fulfill some level of obligation to offer at least a reasonable opportunity to our citizens? I don't think so. But of course, I expect someone will disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 AMEN!!!! :iagree::iagree::D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy in Australia Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Putting aside the "who's to blame" argument, this article is worth taking note of just as a warning and a call to change. Children/young adults have become selfish and it's up to this generation of parents to take note and bring up their children to be both accountable and responsible. I quite like his list of ten terms for responsibility, especially the one about delayed gratification. Why does it seem to be so hard to teach this to our kids? It seemed to be a natural part of growing up when I was young :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I honestly don't know the answer to this, and I'm not being argumentative, but: How do we know that young people have a greater sense of entitlement than in the past? Here's an example that popped into my mind: In Beverly Cleary's autobiography she talks about staying with an aunt while she was in college (in the 1930s). The agreement was that she would stay with the aunt in exchange for baking one cake each week. Beverly Cleary says that she is ashamed to say that in her youth and selfishness, baking the cake was ALL she did to help the aunt. She never offered to help clean or do dishes or ANYthing around the house. She just went to college, hung out with friends, made the cake, and mooched off her aunt. She figured that she was living up to her end of the agreement by simply making that one cake and it never occurred to her to help out in any other way. So, are we really sure that people today have a greater sense of entitlement? Or are we all getting old and cynical and remembering the "good old days?" For every anecdote about someone in the past "not expecting anything," someone else can come up with an anecdote about someone else mooching off their family. How can we ever know that people are worse than in the past, especially if we ourselves didn't live back then. What can we possibly compare it to? And aren't there thousands of stories of young people today working to help others and sacrificing? (yes, there are.) With all that said, the article did have great pointers in passing on good values. I'm just not sure they're right that people today don't have them. And no, I've never heard the sort of conversation between the "parent" and "teen" that the article starts out with. It sounds very silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Putting aside the "who's to blame" argument, this article is worth taking note of just as a warning and a call to change. Children/young adults have become selfish and it's up to this generation of parents to take note and bring up their children to be both accountable and responsible. I quite like his list of ten terms for responsibility, especially the one about delayed gratification. Why does it seem to be so hard to teach this to our kids? It seemed to be a natural part of growing up when I was young :confused: My point exactly AMEN!!!! :D:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I honestly don't know the answer to this, and I'm not being argumentative, but: How do we know that young people have a greater sense of entitlement than in the past? Here's an example that popped into my mind: In Beverly Cleary's autobiography she talks about staying with an aunt while she was in college (in the 1930s). The agreement was that she would stay with the aunt in exchange for baking one cake each week. Beverly Cleary says that she is ashamed to say that in her youth and selfishness, baking the cake was ALL she did to help the aunt. She never offered to help clean or do dishes or ANYthing around the house. She just went to college, hung out with friends, made the cake, and mooched off her aunt. She figured that she was living up to her end of the agreement by simply making that one cake and it never occurred to her to help out in any other way. So, are we really sure that people today have a greater sense of entitlement? Or are we all getting old and cynical and remembering the "good old days?" For every anecdote about someone in the past "not expecting anything," someone else can come up with an anecdote about someone else mooching off their family. How can we ever know that people are worse than in the past, especially if we ourselves didn't live back then. What can we possibly compare it to? And aren't there thousands of stories of young people today working to help others and sacrificing? (yes, there are.) With all that said, the article did have great pointers in passing on good values. I'm just not sure they're right that people today don't have them. And no, I've never heard the sort of conversation between the "parent" and "teen" that the article starts out with. It sounds very silly. :iagree: I was thinking that if we could look back and see our teen selves as we were then with the maturity and wisdom that we have now, we would probably feel that we were pretty selfish and entitled, too. I think my 17yo is a pretty amazing kid. Yes, sometimes he acts like a selfish brat. Most of the time, though, he is a great kid who lives up to his responsibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) How do we know that people are more entitled now than (I think 2) generations ago: There is no expressed recognition by young people now that life does not owe them things. People from 2 generations ago would display expectations of needing to work and negotiate relationships in order to obtain goods and services. Now there is a clear sense of entitlement - folks are "owed" work, or food, or jobs or healthcare.... I think that certain ages and stages lend themselves to selfish, unaware behavior. There's a difference between self absorbed/unaware and entitled. Cleary at least lived up to the letter of the law. There is a lack of that now- take for example, having to have metal detectors at eled and high schools or teachers "packing" so that they can defend themselves. This is going beyond the scope of immaturity and talks about fundamental values and principals. I think that this is why we are seeing such consistan rude behavior among people. Politeness recognizes peoples claims- to respect, good service, etc. My 24 yo dd was shoved aside by a large 20 something man pushing his way out of his aisle on the way to communion last Sunday. Oh, the irony! Edited January 4, 2011 by laughing lioness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 How do we know that people are more entitled now than (I think 2) generations ago: There is no expressed recognition by young people now that life does not owe them things. People from 2 generations ago would display expectations of needing to work and negotiate relationships in order to obtain goods and services. Now there is a clear sense of entitlement - folks are "owed" work, or food, or jobs or healthcare.... I think that certain ages and stages lend themselves to selfish, unaware behavior. There's a difference between self absorbed/unaware and entitled. Cleary at least lived up to the letter of the law. There is a lack of that now- take for example, having to have metal detectors at eled and high schools or teachers "packing" so that they can defend themselves. This is going beyond the scope of immaturity and talks about fundamental values and principals. I think that this is why we are seeing such consistan rude behavior among people. Politeness recognizes peoples claims- to respect, good service, etc. My 24 yo dd was shoved aside by a large 20 something man pushing his way out of his aisle on the way to communion last Sunday. Oh, the irony! I'm still not convinced. The movie Blackboard Jungle (in 1955) was about a school where the kids became so violent they tried to kill the teacher's pregnant wife (inner city school--lots of violence.) I read an article recently that there is LESS school violence nowadays than in the past. Perhaps people are worse today. Perhaps not. I just don't think that it's even possible to prove whether or not people's attitudes have changed. Who has ever recorded it or analyzed it? Isn't it all just perception? It can also be where you live. When I lived in Baltimore people were pretty impersonal and would rudely push past me (like your communion story). When I moved to rural PA, teenagers (smoking outside the mall with strange hairdoos) made a point to rush (not exaggerating! straighten up from leaning on the wall and RUSH) to the mall door to open it for me and my baby. This was only 5 years ago. I just don't think there's a way to truly know if it's worse or better. I've heard a lot of buzz about how gen y and Millenials are more civic minded that the 2 previous generations. I've heard that the Y and Millenials are more like the WWII generation. So, which articles are right? Which are wrong? I choose to believe that people are people and some are snots and some are saints. And I do my best to teach my kids to be responsible, and I'm sure that a few million other parents are out there doing that, too. And some aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 It could be that there are just more poeple and it could certainly be regional, though I live in a rural area and a rural state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 People from 2 generations ago would display expectations of needing to work and negotiate relationships in order to obtain goods and services. Now there is a clear sense of entitlement - folks are "owed" work, or food, or jobs or healthcare....I think that certain ages and stages lend themselves to selfish, unaware behavior. What?:001_huh: That's blarney pure and simple. It was not my generation that started social security or Medicaid or many other govt social services. Those were demanded at least two generations ago. And it's my generation being told to quit whining about paying taxes for services they will likely never benefit from or certainly not to the extent my grandparents did. I agree it seems there are ages and stages. The elderly and the early 20 somethings seem to have a lot in common as far as complaints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 What?:001_huh: That's blarney pure and simple. It was not my generation that started social security or Medicaid or many other govt social services. Those were demanded at least two generations ago. And it's my generation being told to quit whining about paying taxes for services they will likely never benefit from or certainly not to the extent my grandparents did. I agree it seems there are ages and stages. The elderly and the early 20 somethings seem to have a lot in common as far as complaints. Yeah, except the elderly already *have* universal healthcare!:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGoose Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 There's always been some folks with a sense of entitlement I suppose, but I go back to thinking about my childhood. My parents lived in horror that I might grow up "spoiled" and that this was the most awful thing. Their definition: I would expect everything to be given to me and I would think that I would always have lots of "stuff," because I might become spoiled by being given too many toys and not made to do enough chores. But now our culture at large, in general, glorifies the "spoiled princess," aka the entitled person. It's good to be spoiled. I am doing my best to make sure my children don't grow up spoiled, although my in-laws don't help by buying them loads of toys and junk. They are, at least, seeing some of the fruits of my dc behavior in comparison to their other "spoiled" grandchildren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 There's always been some folks with a sense of entitlement I suppose, but I go back to thinking about my childhood. My parents lived in horror that I might grow up "spoiled" and that this was the most awful thing. Their definition: I would expect everything to be given to me and I would think that I would always have lots of "stuff," because I might become spoiled by being given too many toys and not made to do enough chores. But now our culture at large, in general, glorifies the "spoiled princess," aka the entitled person. It's good to be spoiled. I am doing my best to make sure my children don't grow up spoiled, although my in-laws don't help by buying them loads of toys and junk. They are, at least, seeing some of the fruits of my dc behavior in comparison to their other "spoiled" grandchildren. Ug. Now that I will agree with. Parents who can't or won't spoil their kids are often deemed as depriving them. And the things considered necessary for a kid is a much longer list than in previous generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Ug. Now that I will agree with. Parents who can't or won't spoil their kids are often deemed as depriving them. And the things considered necessary for a kid is a much longer list than in previous generations. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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