Catholic's....have you heard this recent news from the Pope?

[delaney]

NM please just NM

Edited November 22, 2010 by delaney

[asta]

How would a faithful Catholic contract AIDS to begin with? I am not Catholic but I feel like if he endorses it he is acknowledging that somewhere along the line you contracted AIDS. If you are only allowed to marry once then I guess you would have had to marry someone who already had it and was not a practicing Catholic. It confuses me.:confused:

 

Blood transfusion.

 

IV Drug use.

 

Finger prick from a needle working in a health profession.

 

Got it before you were a Catholic.

 

Got it from your spouse who wasn't/isn't Catholic.

 

Improperly sterilized medical equipment.

 

Does it really matter?

 

 

a

[ktgrok]

How would a faithful Catholic contract AIDS to begin with? I am not Catholic but I feel like if he endorses it he is acknowledging that somewhere along the line you contracted AIDS. If you are only allowed to marry once then I guess you would have had to marry someone who already had it and was not a practicing Catholic. It confuses me.:confused:

 

First of all, there are plenty of people that have gotten it from blood transfusions. Or from accidental needle pokes. People who have gotten if from rape as well, which is how many many many people catch it in Africa. There is actually a folk belief that raping a virgin will cure aids there. Or in untero from their mother. You might want to be cautious before you assume how one got the disease.

 

Secondly, maybe someone wasn't a practicing catholic when they contracted the disease, but are now. RCIA comes to mind.

[delaney]

Blood transfusion.

 

IV Drug use.

 

Finger prick from a needle working in a health profession.

 

Got it before you were a Catholic.

 

Got it from your spouse who wasn't/isn't Catholic.

 

Improperly sterilized medical equipment.

 

Does it really matter?

 

 

a

Again NM

Edited November 22, 2010 by delaney

[Parrothead]

How would a faithful Catholic contract AIDS to begin with? I am not Catholic but I feel like if he endorses it he is acknowledging that somewhere along the line you contracted AIDS. If you are only allowed to marry once then I guess you would have had to marry someone who already had it and was not a practicing Catholic. It confuses me.:confused:

One can be born with it, One can contract it through a blood transfusion.

 

Being a faithful Catholic does not mean being a sinless Catholic.

[delaney]

First of all, there are plenty of people that have gotten it from blood transfusions. Or from accidental needle pokes. People who have gotten if from rape as well, which is how many many many people catch it in Africa. There is actually a folk belief that raping a virgin will cure aids there. Or in untero from their mother. You might want to be cautious before you assume how one got the disease.

 

Secondly, maybe someone wasn't a practicing catholic when they contracted the disease, but are now. RCIA comes to mind.

I wasn't making assumptions. I was simply asking from one perspective. My word let me go back and delete my post- I have better things to do with my time

[astrid]

I wasn't aware of the food pantries and shelters in Africa.

 

Or impoverished, heavily Catholic Central and South American countries.

 

 

astrid :confused:

[HRAAB]

One last point. Putting aside for a moment the question of what Pope Benedict actually said or was trying to say, and whether it's a good or bad thing (and adding that I'm not fool enough to give my own opinion on what I think he was in fact saying)....

 

This whole episode shows how deep-rooted and prevalent is the belief, certainly among the media and many non-Catholics, and even (alas) among many Catholics, that the Catholic faith is a matter of "doing what the pope says."

 

Thus we see announcements of a "U-turn," or "a softening of the pope's hard-line stance," etc., as if the faith consisted of what the current holder of the See of Peter happens to think that day.

 

But that's nonsense. The pope has no "hard-line stance" to soften; the Church has an ancient teaching, rooted in Scripture and Tradition. The pope's only job is to clarify it when necessary and protect it constantly. The idea that the pope may wake up on Wednesday and announce that from now on Catholics may marry their toasters, and it would hey presto! be Catholic teaching that appliance relations are licit, is an old slander that I keep hoping the media will get past.

 

If Pope Benedict had announced in that book interview that the prohibition on contraception was no longer for today's Catholic, and that all could contracept away without qualms, it would not change the teaching on contraception. It would only tell us that the pope was, quod Deus avertat, a heretic.

 

Sign of relief. Thanks for the voice of reason.

[astrid]

Condoms-shmondoms.

 

Kittens are dying.

 

THANK YOU!!!!!

 

ARGH....the death toll among kittens is truly staggering. ;)

 

astrid

[Amy loves Bud]

God would not put me in that situation. There are plenty of scriptural references for God opening doors, God creating safe places, God creating food. So, as a Christian, it's a moot point. I would never prostitute myself, because God would never put me in a situation where I had to.

 

So I'm curious why God put the mothers of all the children who die every year from dirty water, starvation or malaria in that situation. That's assuming they are lucky enough to have mothers.

 

About 4000 children die DAILY because they don't have clean water.

Three thousand children die daily from malaria.

Many thousands more die daily from malnutrition.

 

That's thousands upon thousands EACH DAY.

[astrid]

So I'm curious why God put the mothers of all the children who die every year from dirty water, starvation or malaria in that situation. That's assuming they are lucky enough to have mothers.

 

About 4000 children die DAILY because they don't have clean water.

Three thousand children die daily from malaria.

Many thousands more die daily from malnutrition.

 

That's thousands upon thousands EACH DAY.

 

:bigear:

 

astrid

[Rivka]

You put that so well. You make it sound like such a beautiful thing.

 

God would not put me in that situation. There are plenty of scriptural references for God opening doors, God creating safe places, God creating food. So, as a Christian, it's a moot point. I would never prostitute myself, because God would never put me in a situation where I had to.

 

It must be nice to know that the safety and security you are privileged to have come from God loving you more than he loved the victims of the Rwandan genocide, or the rape camps in the Serbian wars, or the famines in Africa.

 

Man. I try to stay out of religious debates, but I couldn't let this one pass. What an ugly thing for a person to say.

[astrid]

It must be nice to know that the safety and security you are privileged to have come from God loving you more than he loved the victims of the Rwandan genocide, or the rape camps in the Serbian wars, or the famines in Africa.

 

Man. I try to stay out of religious debates, but I couldn't let this one pass. What an ugly thing for a person to say.

 

I couldn't agree more, Rivka. In fact, I avoided commenting because I just couldn't find words that adequately expressed my thoughts in a civil fashion.

 

This utterly and completely gobsmacked me. Seriously.

 

astrid

[yellowperch]

On second thougt, I'll stay out of this one.

 

But I will say Im sorry about the kitten's.

Edited November 22, 2010 by yellowperch

[aggieamy]

I'm sitting here thinking that I must be a pretty crappy person because if it meant preventing my children from starving to death then I'd probably prostitute myself. Can't help but feel like my morals are lacking today.

 

It must be nice to know that the safety and security you are privileged to have come from God loving you more than he loved the victims of the Rwandan genocide, or the rape camps in the Serbian wars, or the famines in Africa.

 

Man. I try to stay out of religious debates, but I couldn't let this one pass. What an ugly thing for a person to say.

 

You expressed very well what I was thinking but couldn't come up with the words to say. Thank you.

[idnib]

As a Muslim who is used to seeing many media distortions of my faith, the Catholics certainly have my sympathy. Reading the Pope's comments in context vs. how they are portrayed by the media is eye opening for sure.

 

:grouphug:

Edited November 22, 2010 by idnib

[asta]

It must be nice to know that the safety and security you are privileged to have come from God loving you more than he loved the victims of the Rwandan genocide, or the rape camps in the Serbian wars, or the famines in Africa.

 

Man. I try to stay out of religious debates, but I couldn't let this one pass. What an ugly thing for a person to say.

 

I don't even stay out of religious debates and I was smacked on that one. I remember trying to explain to someone once upon a time how the UN was offering (read: popping in their mouths - they were all in shock) RU-486 to every single woman refugee coming across the border during the Kosovar conflict simply because every last one of them had been raped. Every. Last. One. of Them. Ethnic cleansing via impregnation. <shudder>

 

I'm sitting here thinking that I must be a pretty crappy person because if it meant preventing my children from starving to death then I'd probably prostitute myself. Can't help but feel like my morals are lacking today.

 

Your morals aren't lacking at all. Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. Jesus didn't have a problem with her. If my baby were starving, prostitution would be venial compared to what I'd be willing to do to insure his well being.

 

Just sayin'...

 

 

a

[HRAAB]

It must be nice to know that the safety and security you are privileged to have come from God loving you more than he loved the victims of the Rwandan genocide, or the rape camps in the Serbian wars, or the famines in Africa.

 

Man. I try to stay out of religious debates, but I couldn't let this one pass. What an ugly thing for a person to say.

 

I'm thinking maybe the OP has a better explanation for her comment. Let's give her a chance to explain.

[lionfamily1999]

Rape, as far as I know, is not prostitution.

 

I worship the same God that fed the Isrealites for 40 years in the desert. He has proven Himself time and again as one that can be relied on to provide.

[Caitilin]

Rape, as far as I know, is not prostitution.

 

I worship the same God that fed the Isrealites for 40 years in the desert. He has proven Himself time and again as one that can be relied on to provide.

 

Now I really WILL demonstrate Godwin's law:

 

What about the Jews, the descendants of those same Isrealites, who were confined in German concentration camps? What do you see as the provision God made for them in that terrible circumstance?

[FaithManor]

There but for the grace of God go I. I'm with Asta...GOBSMACKED!

 

I believe God will not give me, a believer, more than I can bear if I am willing to rely on HIM. I do not for one instance find anywhere in the Bible that leads me to believe that being His follower, will exempt me from any of the horrors of this fallen world we live in. My protection is spiritual so long as I persevere in the faith. I am not guaranteed physical protection nor freedom from making desperate decisions. Ask Dietrich Bonhoeffer who absolutely believed murder is sin and yet ended up being executed by Nazi's for his role in a plot to assassinate Hitler so that the atrocities would end.

 

Faith

[lionfamily1999]

There but for the grace of God go I. I'm with Asta...GOBSMACKED!

 

I believe God will not give me, a believer, more than I can bear if I am willing to rely on HIM. I do not for one instance find anywhere in the Bible that leads me to believe that being His follower, will exempt me from any of the horrors of this fallen world we live in. My protection is spiritual so long as I persevere in the faith. I am not guaranteed physical protection nor freedom from making desperate decisions. Ask Dietrich Bonhoeffer who absolutely believed murder is sin and yet ended up being executed by Nazi's for his role in a plot to assassinate Hitler so that the atrocities would end.

 

Faith

Not exempt from the horrors, but give us an out, YES. God always provides. Why would He tell us not be anxious, except that He provides? Why would He tell us to trust Him without reason? These hypothetical situations, would you turn tricks or let your children starve to death, leave out that key element of 'Would you trust God to provide.'

 

Well, I trust God to provide.

[Parrothead]

 

 

 

Your morals aren't lacking at all. Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. Jesus didn't have a problem with her. If my baby were starving, prostitution would be venial compared to what I'd be willing to do to insure his well being.

 

Just sayin'...

 

 

a

No, Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute. If you care to you'll have to research it yourself because I'm being a bit lazy.

[freethinkermama]

You put that so well. You make it sound like such a beautiful thing.

 

God would not put me in that situation. There are plenty of scriptural references for God opening doors, God creating safe places, God creating food. So, as a Christian, it's a moot point. I would never prostitute myself, because God would never put me in a situation where I had to.

 

I wish it were that easy.

 

Hundreds and hundreds of little boys and girls are now being prostituted as we type merrily away on our keyboards. (ecmafrica.org See this site, a Christian ministry to child sex slaves, if you don't believe it.)

 

Do you think, if we could just convert all of those children to Christianity, that they wouldn't be in that position? What about those children who ARE Christian?

 

What makes you so much more special than they that you would never be forced into prostitution, but these Christian children are?

 

Curiously,

T.

Edited November 22, 2010 by freethinkermama

[BBG580]

I just love Jimmy Akin, apologist for Catholic Answers. He has really explained the comments in detail for all Catholics who are confused by the media coverage:

 

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/the-pope-said-what-about-condoms/

 

Every single thing the Pope says is not necessarily binding for Catholics. He is allowed opinions! The Pope was being interviewed for a book, not using his official teaching capacity.

 

With that said, I think the point he was trying to make was a very good one, that while a person may be committing an extremely immoral act there can be a level of morality involved if the person has a disease, like AIDS, and protects the other person from transmission. The acceptance by that person of choosing morally to protect the life of another person might be the start of the path to future moral choices.

Edited November 23, 2010 by BBG580
spelling

[Spy Car]

I think the point he was trying to make was a very good one, that while a person may be committing an extremely immortal act there can be a level of morality involved if the person has a disease, like AIDS, and protects the other person from transmission. The acceptance by that person of choosing morally to protect the life of another person might be the start of the path to future moral choices.

 

This is it in a nutshell.

 

Bill

[lionfamily1999]

I wish it were that easy.

 

Hundreds and hundreds of little boys and girls are now being prostituted as we type merrily away on our keyboards. (ecmafrica.org See this site, a Christian ministry to child sex slaves, if you don't believe it.)

 

Do you think, if we could just convert all of those children to Christianity, that they wouldn't be in that position? What about those children who ARE Christian?

 

What makes you so much more special than they that you would never be forced into prostitution, but these Christian children are?

 

Curiously,

T.

That, imo, would be rape.

 

Am I wrong here?

 

That's rape, right? Forcing someone to have sex?

 

Forcing, that implies removing their choice, yes?

 

So, it's not as though there is a choice? So, if someone were to say if you had to CHOOSE between prostitution or allowing your children to starve to death, there is a CHOICE there, then it is not FORCED SEX, yes?

 

Well, like I said before... I trust that God would not put me into a situation where I had to CHOOSE between turning tricks or my children starving to death, because God would provide.

 

Choice, choosing, is not FORCED.

 

For the absolute last time. I do NOT equate RAPE with prostitution.

 

ETA, I'm pretty sure that anyone that was FORCED into prostitution, would not say they chose it.

[Lovedtodeath]

God would not put me in that situation. There are plenty of scriptural references for God opening doors, God creating safe places, God creating food. So, as a Christian, it's a moot point. I would never prostitute myself, because God would never put me in a situation where I had to.

A young man I used to be, I have also grown old, and yet I have not seen anyone righteous left entirely, nor his offspring looking for bread.—Ps. 37:25.

 

Matthew 6:33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

 

But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13, NIV)

 

Now, in the interest of theological debate... that bolded phrase seems to indicate something other than simple escape.

 

.

I will not quote that ugly post. Julie did not say that. You did. Julie said what FaithManor said and then people started twisting her words. Yes, God's people were in refugee camps in Rwanda. Yes, they were in Nazi concentration camps (and Christians too), but the Scriptures do promise us certain protections, which is what Julie said. How you are interpreting that is up to you.

I believe God will not give me, a believer, more than I can bear if I am willing to rely on HIM.

 

.

Again, Julie was not indicating anything about those situations that you have brought up.

I believe God will not give me, a believer, more than I can bear if I am willing to rely on HIM. I do not for one instance find anywhere in the Bible that leads me to believe that being His follower, will exempt me from any of the horrors of this fallen world we live in. My protection is spiritual so long as I persevere in the faith. I am not guaranteed physical protection nor freedom from making desperate decisions. Ask Dietrich Bonhoeffer who absolutely believed murder is sin and yet ended up being executed by Nazi's for his role in a plot to assassinate Hitler so that the atrocities would end.

 

Faith

 

I wish it were that easy.

 

Hundreds and hundreds of little boys and girls are now being prostituted as we type merrily away on our keyboards. (ecmafrica.org See this site, a Christian ministry to child sex slaves, if you don't believe it.)

 

Do you think, if we could just convert all of those children to Christianity, that they wouldn't be in that position? What about those children who ARE Christian?

Now this is a theological debate. It would be nice to phrase it that way rather than as an attack. Maybe Julie, as a new Christian, could use guidance in this area, rather than someone extinguishing her smoldering wick.

 

And let me just say that I have seen Christians of all kinds saying that God provided things for them of all kinds. It seems weird that this is just now an issue.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[lionfamily1999]

A young man I used to be, I have also grown old, and yet I have not seen anyone righteous left entirely, nor his offspring looking for bread.—Ps. 37:25.

 

Matthew 6:33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

 

But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.†(1 Corinthians 10:13, NIV)

 

Now, in the interest of theological debate... that bolded phrase seems to indicate something other than simple escape.

 

I will not quote that ugly post. Julie did not say that. You did. Julie said what FaithManor said and then people started twisting her words. Yes, God's people were in refugee camps in Rwanda. Yes, they were in Nazi concentration camps (and Christians too), but the Scriptures do promise us certain protections, which is what Julie said. How you are interpreting that is up to you.

 

 

Again, Julie was not indicating anything about those situations that you have brought up.

 

 

Now this is a theological debate. It would be nice to phrase it that way rather than as an attack. Maybe Julie, as a new Christian, could use guidance in this area, rather than someone extinguishing her smoldering wick.

 

And let me just say that I have seen Christians of all kinds saying that God provided things for them of all kinds. It seems weird that this is just now an issue.

:grouphug: Thank you.

[Rivka]

A young man I used to be, I have also grown old, and yet I have not seen anyone righteous left entirely, nor his offspring looking for bread.—Ps. 37:25.

 

Well, maybe the psalmist should have OPENED HIS EYES.

 

Children starve to death every day. Children starve to death every day. Go look at this link:

 

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&biw=1024&bih=531&q=malnourished+children&gbv=2&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=malnourished&gs_rfai=

 

and see if you can come away satisfied that their parents must all be among the unrighteous.

 

It's a very pretty idea to think that God protects his children from experiencing degradation, and intolerable need. Except when you turn that idea around and see what it logically says about people - vast numbers of people in the world - who are not protected from degradation and intolerable need.

[Lovedtodeath]

But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13, NIV)

 

Now, in the interest of theological debate... that bolded phrase seems to indicate something other than simple escape.

 

Yes, God's people were in refugee camps in Rwanda. Yes, they were in Nazi concentration camps (and Christians too), but the Scriptures do promise us certain protections, which is what Julie said. How you are interpreting that is up to you.

 

I have read many stories of my spiritual brothers and sisters in camps because of their faith, sharing the one potato that someone had smuggled to them. I am not saying what you seem to continue to think.