Trying to understand the Schwa sound...

[Alexandra]

Is this sound a North American phenomenon? Would a British person say words with the schwa sound?

I am trying to imagine a Britain saying progression...they would say the first syllable as a long "o" - is that correct? An American OTOH would (most likely) say "prugression".

If I have that correct, is the schwa a difference in accent or perhaps laziness?

Thanks for any help with this.

Alexandra

[Mom2J112903]

I have lived in the states all my life and say progression (with a long /o/) and never have *I* heard it pronuced prugression.

[Sputterduck]

I say progression with a schwa. If I am purposefully enunciating very clearly, I do not.

[amydavis]

I say it with the schwa sound. All the dictionary entries I have found list it as being a short sound, not a long o.

 

(Editing to just add the dictionary pronunciation)

 

pro·gres·sion noun \prə-ˈgre-shən\

Edited October 5, 2010 by amydavis

[momof4pks]

The schwa sound is found in unaccented open syllables. While there may be some regional variations, there are many words that I would think any English speaker would say with the schwa. The initial "a" in "above, "awake", etc., the final "a" in "comma", "tundra", etc.--there are tons of words with these usages of schwa.

[Xuzi]

Totally not on topic, but after reading the thread title, all I can think of is "Shaw-iiiing!!!" (ala Wayne's World)

 

And now back to your regularly scheduled discussion...

[amydavis]

Totally not on topic, but after reading the thread title, all I can think of is "Shaw-iiiing!!!" (ala Wayne's World)

 

And now back to your regularly scheduled discussion...

 

:lol:

[Nestof3]

Interesting. We came upon the schwa sound today in Megawords. Wouldn't someone in the UK say progress with a long o? Why do we say it with a schwa sound? I think you raise a great question.

 

I have NEVER in the states heard anyone pronounce it with a long o sound.

[Dandelion]

Totally not on topic, but after reading the thread title, all I can think of is "Shaw-iiiing!!!" (ala Wayne's World)

 

And now back to your regularly scheduled discussion...

 

:lol:

 

Too funny - that's exactly what I thought of when I saw the thread title!!

 

Unfortunately, I have nothing helpful to contribute to the actual topic (especially since I now have Wayne's World scenes floating through my brain)... Excellent! Party on! :D

[Spy Car]

.

[EmmaNZ]

For whatit's worth - I'm English and I say progress with a long-o, but progression with a schwa.

[Rosie_0801]

That's how we say it too. Using a schwa isn't necessarily lazy, it allows you to put the stress on the appropriate syllable of the word. You couldn't stress something if there wasn't a way not to, could you?

 

Rosie

[Laura Corin]

The schwa is common in British English. In standard British English the first 'o' in progression would definitely be a schwa, being unstressed. In 'progress' it would be a long 'o', as it is stressed.

 

Laura

[Danestress]

In the south, we often stress first syllables where others stress the second. Because "schwa" is in unstressed syllables, this can affect when it is used.

 

For example, most southerners will say "umbrella" or "police" stressing the first syllable. I would think a northerner would use a "schwa" in the first syllable of "police" but a southerner won't because it is stressed and has a long "o." Think about "guitar" - it's the same way. My kids had a book identifying "guitar" as having a schwa sound. Well, not amongst many speakers around here!

 

For me (and I don't really have a southern accent, but I think that being around it all my life affects what seems normal to me, so some things creep in, and the emphasis on the first syllable may be one),

 

- the word "progress" would have an emphasis on the first syllable when used as a noun and the "o" would be pronounced like like the "aa" in "baa baa black sheep."

 

- the word "progress" would have a long "O" in the first syllable when used as a verb

 

- and I guess "progressive" probably has a schwa sound in my speech.

[IsabelC]

I believe the schwa is used in all accents of English, as well as in many other languages.

 

However, since I am Australian, I speak as though I'm trying to keep the flies out, so take no notice of anything I say :tongue_smilie:

 

ROFL @ Danestress "Ah wanna play mah GUIT-ar" I <3 Southern accent.

[Lolly]

Hmmm. progression? I say the prog like frog. Short o. Prog res sion. Maybe I should pull out a dictionary...:001_huh:

[Tabrett]

In the south, we often stress first syllables where others stress the second. Because "schwa" is in unstressed syllables, this can affect when it is used.

 

For example, most southerners will say "umbrella" or "police" stressing the first syllable. I would think a northerner would use a "schwa" in the first syllable of "police" but a southerner won't because it is stressed and has a long "o." Think about "guitar" - it's the same way. My kids had a book identifying "guitar" as having a schwa sound. Well, not amongst many speakers around here!

 

For me (and I don't really have a southern accent, but I think that being around it all my life affects what seems normal to me, so some things creep in, and the emphasis on the first syllable may be one),

 

- the word "progress" would have an emphasis on the first syllable when used as a noun and the "o" would be pronounced like like the "aa" in "baa baa black sheep."

 

- the word "progress" would have a long "O" in the first syllable when used as a verb

 

- and I guess "progressive" probably has a schwa sound in my speech.

 

Being from the south, this is probably why I couldn't spell phonetically. "Spell it like it sounds" I was told. geesh....50% of the vowels sound like /uh/. I never could figure out which vowel to use. I actually had to start to learn to PRONOUNCE the vowel in the word correctly, without a schwa, to learn to spell. :001_huh:

 

When teaching my dc to read, I pronounce all the vowels correctly, without a schwa sound, in hopes it will help with spelling. Needless to say, the southern accent will end up prevailing.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Tabrett

[nmoira]

Progress: I say the noun with a longish "o" and the verb with a schwa.

Progression: schwa

[nmoira]

 

In standard British English the first 'o' in progression would definitely be a schwa, being unstressed. In 'progress' it would be a long 'o', as it is stressed.

Both noun and verb?

[Momling]

Is this sound a North American phenomenon? Would a British person say words with the schwa sound?

I am trying to imagine a Britain saying progression...they would say the first syllable as a long "o" - is that correct? An American OTOH would (most likely) say "prugression".

If I have that correct, is the schwa a difference in accent or perhaps laziness?

Thanks for any help with this.

Alexandra

 

There's nothing 'lazy' about any dialect, for one thing... Also, schwa is just a sound -- a mid central vowel, no better or worse than any other sound. In English it is used in unaccented syllables.

[Spy Car]

Progress: I say the noun with a longish "o" and the verb with a schwa.

Progression: schwa

 

Interesting. Here I do exactly the opposite.

 

Bill

[nmoira]

Interesting. Here I do exactly the opposite.

 

Bill

I'm a Canadian raised by an English father.

[Laura Corin]

Both noun and verb?

 

Many people avoid that as an americanism. If it's used, then the 'o' is a a schwa and the stress is on the second syllable.

 

Laura