Aspie young adult relationships--need advice about my son

[Chris in VA]

Long story, but in a nutshell, ds20 is struggling with forgiving himself, still, after about a year. He got emotional with a young lady with whom he had had a sort-of girlfriend/boyfriend relationship. She ended it, he was ok, then he went to the same college as she did. They met the first week (still were friends) and he then wanted a relationship again. They had a cyber conversation in which he told her that, and got intense. She got spooked--I know it is because of something in her past, but I cannot ask my priest-hubby about it, but he knows. She told ds to go get counseling or she'd never talk to him again.

 

So, he did. He went for 8 or 10 sessions, and discovered he probably has Aspergers. We knew that, but his first eval in 4th grade said he didn't--didn't know there were social groups and stuff that could have helped him. Anyway, for some reason, he simply cannot let go of the fact that he ruined their friendship.

 

He actually became suicidal last year over it. He's much better now, but tonight he called and we talked for an hour--he is feeling so down now about her and just wants so badly for her to approach him and let him tell her he is sorry.

 

I can't make him get counseling, and the counseling isn't really reaching him, anyway--I think the counselor is quite good but the Aspie ness of his brain just won't let him forgive himself. He has an overdeveloped and very strict and high standard of behaviour. He hates himself, he says, because he ruined this friendship and hurt her. He has no other friends, except his roomie, and he's more of a "surface-y" friend (a super, super nice guy but not bosom friend, y'know?).

 

Pls pray for him, those who do, and please, if you have any words of wisdom, share them with me!

[Starr]

Poor guy; I'm praying for all of you. This parenting thing just doesn't get easier.

[MorganClassicalPrep]

Is being unable to let go of things part of Aspergers? For some strange reason, I've never made that connection, but honestly your son sounds similar to me.

I often make the mistake of holding onto friendships that are toxic to me because I can't let go. I also will often obsess over mistakes I've made in regards to relationships/friendships, and consider how I could have done it differently, etc.

 

Anyways, back to the topic at hand... I'm just wondering if the girl knows that he has Aspergers? That might change how she views the situation, if he would be comfortable telling her. Most of the people in my life don't know I am, but they do understand that I'm different somehow. The few people that I've talked to about it say they feel totally different about some situations after knowing this.

 

Could he write her a letter? Maybe with your help so it doesn't come across as too much? I'm a big letter writer myself. I always have trouble expressing myself in person, but I can put everything down on paper. Plus, it could be easier for this girl to read a letter and digest what he has to say before she responds.

 

I will definitely pray for him, that he is able to find peace within himself, whether she comes around or not. I understand what he is going through. It is tough when you don't feel as though closure has been made and there is more to say.

[Dobela]

:grouphug: Chris, what kind of counselor is he seeing? My brother is an Aspie and personal relationships are just awful. Bless his heart, he just doesn't get it. Counseling with a social worker or the like didn't work for him. The biggest change we saw was after he began seeing a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist provided the counseling he needed on navigating thru social situations while prescribing medications to help him stabilize his mood and deal with the depression he was experiencing. Some of the counseling was in groups, some private. The meds have needed to be adjusted and changed, but we can tell a huge difference if he decides to stop any. Interestingly when he is on the meds he doesn't obsess over much of anything, but when he is off meds, he can go almost over the top with obsessive bahaviors. We consider it fortunate that no one has ever charged him with stalking while off meds.

 

I will also say that college was one of the most difficult time periods for him. Most people didn't understand him. Not that he was well liked in high school, but at least in high school they had all grown up with him and knew how to navigate him. College had so many social situations to navigate and they changed constantly- teachers, peers, friends, social groups... Even with help he was miserable in college. He did much better in a vocational training situation, but that was just him. I know others with Aspergers have made it thru college.

 

:grouphug:

[sbgrace]

I will pray for him. Poor guy. :grouphug:

 

My thought is to write a letter to her (with your help) saying what he needs to say to bring some closure for him.

 

I'm wondering if there are any social groups available for young adults on the spectrum? If not or if that's too much for him maybe he could do a cyber group to make connections with other Aspie young adults.

 

My spectrum kiddo is only six so what I say may be worthless or worse. But I've seen an adult with undxd Aspie stuff and it impacted their life because those universal spectrum weaknesses made relationships (work and home) tougher than they needed to be. It's not too late for him to learn some of those things if he's open to the idea in my opinion. I like RDI for addressing those things but he'd need parent access and time for that. I wonder if Michelle Garcia Winner's materials though might be helpful. If he were mine I'd rather him try to learn what he could to make the social navigations easier directly now that you know the underlying issue.

 

Then, I'm wondering about co-morbid stuff and treating that aggressively. You said depression (which is common in Aspie kids). Is he taking medication? Is he near you? I'm wondering if not letting it go might have some OCD type component which is also common. If so most of the antidepressants will help with that as well. I wish the counselor had been better. Is there another one to try? If it's a major university I'd wonder if there are resources for Aspie type stuff.

[Rosie_0801]

Poor guy. It's not his fault she has some growing up to do. (Just like he does. Just like we all do.)

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

[tex-mex]

Poor guy. It's not his fault she has some growing up to do. (Just like he does. Just like we all do.)

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

:iagree: It did appear to me she had a hand in hurting ds to the point that became dangerous. As a mom of an Aspie teen (hubby and I talk about this all of the time) the complexities of relationships for an Aspie are difficult.

 

But I am a tad upset at the young lady's reaction and unforgiveness. He may have come across inappropriately -- but that may be due to his "social skills" filter not being adjusted. She does need to know this. There should be some reconciliation for the ds' part (with a mediator)?? And yes, he needs to move on from the relationship (be at peace) and make the choice for personal continued growth in the relationship path for whomever he is intended for. (I'm a fellow Aspie/PDD-NOS and can sympathize with him. It is hard.) :grouphug:

[Chris in VA]

Thank you so much for your replies.

He was seeing a very well qualified counselor thru the school--she has her Ph.D but is not a psychiatrist. He had the chance to go to an Autism clinic, which is right on campus and even has a social group, but we couldn't afford it (the social group was refused b/c, well, it's a group and he doesn't do groups...it's an aspie thing and a ds thing.) He feels that none of the therapy has helped him move on because it hasn't "made" HER talk to him. He says he'd feel better if he could just hear her say she forgives him.

 

He did write her a letter, showed it to her therapist, and mailed it to her. No response.

 

I think she just felt he was obsessing and it wasn't good for him to be near her. And yes, he does show a few OCD-like tendencies, but does not have it, according to the eval he had at the beginning. He likes things neat and organized, but doesn't line stuff up or have to wash hands or have a super strict routine. He did have situation specific depression.

 

Personally, I think more training and some antiD's may help--there is a great deal of research supporting things like Zoloft to mediate some of the Aspie behaviors. At one time, when he was around 7, we tried it for 2 weeks at a very low dose. It did wonders for him, but I was uncomfortable about the effects on a developing brain, so we stopped. IDK if he'd take it again. He said at the time he didn't feel so "wiggly"--I think he meant distracted (he's not ADD)--his teacher said it was like night and day. He used to get absorbed by the fish tank in his Montessori room...:001_smile:

 

Anyway, I am going to do more research, and see what I come up with. I think it's largely the black and white thinking and more concrete thinking that is tripping him up. He feels the need to "never" let it go, and is punishing himself by not letting himself "ever" be happy with another person. He doesn't want to date her anymore, he just wants to be friends or at least have closure with her.

[asta]

Is being unable to let go of things part of Aspergers?

 

Yes.

 

It is often misdiagnosed as 'simple' OCD for years and years before someone recognizes it as part of the overall pattern of Aspergers.

 

 

asta

[Tammyla]

:grouphug:Hugs and prayers:grouphug:

 

Has he considered that she may also need therapy before she can forgive him? It may or may not be an aha moment, but it may enable him to move on without her forgiveness.

 

 

Thank you so much for your replies.

He was seeing a very well qualified counselor thru the school--she has her Ph.D but is not a psychiatrist. He had the chance to go to an Autism clinic, which is right on campus and even has a social group, but we couldn't afford it (the social group was refused b/c, well, it's a group and he doesn't do groups...it's an aspie thing and a ds thing.) He feels that none of the therapy has helped him move on because it hasn't "made" HER talk to him. He says he'd feel better if he could just hear her say she forgives him.

 

He did write her a letter, showed it to her therapist, and mailed it to her. No response.

 

I think she just felt he was obsessing and it wasn't good for him to be near her. And yes, he does show a few OCD-like tendencies, but does not have it, according to the eval he had at the beginning. He likes things neat and organized, but doesn't line stuff up or have to wash hands or have a super strict routine. He did have situation specific depression.

 

Personally, I think more training and some antiD's may help--there is a great deal of research supporting things like Zoloft to mediate some of the Aspie behaviors. At one time, when he was around 7, we tried it for 2 weeks at a very low dose. It did wonders for him, but I was uncomfortable about the effects on a developing brain, so we stopped. IDK if he'd take it again. He said at the time he didn't feel so "wiggly"--I think he meant distracted (he's not ADD)--his teacher said it was like night and day. He used to get absorbed by the fish tank in his Montessori room...:001_smile:

 

Anyway, I am going to do more research, and see what I come up with. I think it's largely the black and white thinking and more concrete thinking that is tripping him up. He feels the need to "never" let it go, and is punishing himself by not letting himself "ever" be happy with another person. He doesn't want to date her anymore, he just wants to be friends or at least have closure with her.

[Michelle in AL]

Just something I've noticed in my dh, who I swear might be an aspie. He'd agree. He has cycles over the yrs of times when he's down and "fixates" on things. For example, every spring he gets low and around every October. I know this now and expect it. He also rehashes issues over and over and over and holds a grudge when crossed.

 

Just thought I'd mention this since you said this happened to your son about the same time last yr. I wonder if the stress of going back to school, brings back old issues that he can pin his stress too.

 

For my dh, I've really wondered if meds wouldn't help this. I almost think it's more anxiety than depression.

[Chris in VA]

Just thought I'd mention this since you said this happened to your son about the same time last yr. I wonder if the stress of going back to school, brings back old issues that he can pin his stress too.

 

For my dh, I've really wondered if meds wouldn't help this. I almost think it's more anxiety than depression.

 

Yes, I do think it was "triggered" by being on campus again and the time of year. He saw her again, too--he says every time he sees her, the feeling of hating what he did wells up in him.

 

I told him she may need time and help to forgive him, but he takes that as "I did something so bad to someone, they need help to get over it."

 

His standards are so unrealistic, even for himself. And everything is related to his life.

 

Thanks for the replies--I really appreciate it. It's supportive to me.

[Laurie]

I think she just felt he was obsessing and it wasn't good for him to be near her. And yes, he does show a few OCD-like tendencies, but does not have it, according to the eval he had at the beginning. He likes things neat and organized, but doesn't line stuff up or have to wash hands or have a super strict routine. He did have situation specific depression.

 

.

 

I love Daniel Amen MD's book, Change Your Brain Change Your Life: The Breakthrough Program for Conquering Anxiety, Depression, Obsessiveness, Anger, and Impulsiveness. (This is the dr. who is on PBS sometimes.)

 

There's a very good chapter about how to get "unstuck". He describes the part of the brain (cingulate system) that's not working properly, medications that may help as well as how diet and exercise play a role in boosting serotonin levels in the brain.

 

:grouphug:

[sparrow]

:grouphug:

 

Oh :crying:. This is so, so hard. My ds is only 10, but he sounds almost *exactly* like your ds. Reading your post, I can see the writing on the wall for our future. He is PDD-NOS (with a "may be diagnosed with Asperger's in the future" thrown in ;)). I am trying now to help him understand that NO ONE can live up to his high standards...including himself. We ALL make mistakes.

 

Do you think this girl was spooked because she felt he may be obsessing on *her*? I know some day my ds will obsess on something other than Star Wars Lego and I worry that when that interest turns to a girl he won't understand when to "back off" :glare:. I mean, I know he'll treat a girl like a queen. He just has that whole chivalric thing going on, but he can't read the cues when enough is enough.

 

I would definitely research on the anti-depressants if you think it may help. Are you familiar with Wrong Planet? It's a website for support of autism and Asperger's. There are forums that may interest your ds, too.

 

Huge hugs to you. This has got to be so hard.

[catalinakel]

My thirteen year old daughter who has Asperger's has benefitted tremendously from some focused theological study on the nature of grace and God . It has helped her to see that when she holds onto things and holds herself to a high standard, yet fails, it is prideful to continue to reject God's healing grace. When she is able to see that this is a sin, and not a good thing, she can move on and live in peace with her self. So far this has worked wonders, and, honestly, what else can one cling to? Of course all of this has come about as a result of much prayer and discussion, also.

[Denisemomof4]

 

 

 

Could he write her a letter? Maybe with your help so it doesn't come across as too much? I'm a big letter writer myself. I always have trouble expressing myself in person, but I can put everything down on paper. Plus, it could be easier for this girl to read a letter and digest what he has to say before she responds.

 

 

 

Just to let you know, AS people are typically eloquent writers but horrible communicators.

 

Chris, has your son considered explaining himself in a letter? If he chooses to do so, it may be a good idea for you to proof read it first, if he will let you.

 

I also saw the person I know who has AS in a different light once I knew what I was dealing with. I simply had no idea and so I was easily frustrated.

[sbgrace]

I just want to add that not all OCD has outward behaviors. The compulsions can be mental and often are mentally going over things. It used to be called Pure-Obessional OCD. Unfortunately, it can be missed by professionals who are looking for things like handwashing or checking behaviors that can be seen. But OCD doesn't always look like that in reality.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purely_Obsessional_OCD

For people with Purely Obsessional OCD, there are usually no observable compulsions, such as those commonly seen in those with the typical form of OCD (checking, counting, hand-washing, etc.). While ritualizing and neutralizing behaviors do take place, they are almost entirely in the form of excessive mental rumination.

One of the common forms is actually responsibility which sounds to me like what your son might be doing.

Common intrusive thoughts/obsessions include themes of:

-Responsibility: with an excessive concern over someone's well-being marked specifically by guilt over believing they have harmed or might harm (either on purpose or inadvertently) someone.

and:

The disorder is particularly easy to miss by many well-trained clinicians, as it closely resembles markers of generalized anxiety disorder and does not include observable, compulsive behaviors. Clinical "success" is reached when the Purely Obsessional OCD sufferer becomes indifferent to the need to answer the question. While many clinicians will mistakenly offer reassurance and try to help their patient achieve a definitive answer (an unfortunate consequence of therapists treating Purely Obsessional OCD as generalized anxiety disorder), this method only contributes to the intensity or length of the patient's rumination, as the neuropathways of the OCD brain will predictably come up with creative ways to "trick" the person out of reassurance, negating any temporary relief and perpetuating the cycle of obsessing.

Essentially, it matters if this is part of OCD because the approach needs to be different. In that case trying to help him process and come to closure might actually reinforce the OCD and make it worse. So he'd need a Cognitive Behavioral Approach specifically for OCD. Anti-depressants might help of course. CBT is the only non-medicine treatment for OCD. Edited August 28, 2010 by sbgrace

[Denisemomof4]

 

I will also say that college was one of the most difficult time periods for him. Most people didn't understand him. Not that he was well liked in high school, but at least in high school they had all grown up with him and knew how to navigate him. College had so many social situations to navigate and they changed constantly- teachers, peers, friends, social groups... Even with help he was miserable in college. He did much better in a vocational training situation, but that was just him. I know others with Aspergers have made it thru college.

 

:grouphug:

 

College is typically the hardest time for an Aspie. I think that some Aspergers do better than others, especially if they are studying in an area that many Aspergers do, typically engineering.

 

I have read that psychotherapy doesn't help, but it apparently has with Dobela's brother. What I've read is that social groups with other Aspies, usually headed by one or more people who help run the show, so to speak, are helpful. Please check these out:

 

http://www.aagw.net/

 

http://www.poac-nova.org/

 

http://www.therapistlocator.net/families/Consumer_Updates/AspergersSyndrome.asp

 

http://www.aspfi.org/links.htm

 

I think these will be your greatest help.

[Teachin'Mine]

Yes, I do think it was "triggered" by being on campus again and the time of year. He saw her again, too--he says every time he sees her, the feeling of hating what he did wells up in him.

 

I told him she may need time and help to forgive him, but he takes that as "I did something so bad to someone, they need help to get over it."

 

His standards are so unrealistic, even for himself. And everything is related to his life.

 

Thanks for the replies--I really appreciate it. It's supportive to me.

 

Did he choose that school for it's programs, or because she's a student there? (In re-reading your post I'm guessing that they met at school last year.) It might not be a bad idea to consider a transfer for him. It doesn't sound like a healthy situation for either of them.

 

Are you able to talk with a counselor on campus? Maybe a counselor - a good one - would be able to speak with your son, then separately with her, and come up with something that would help both of them to feel more comfortable with the situation, or have some suggestions. It's hard for you to know what she's feeling or experiencing, and a counselor would be able to do this. Just a thought.

 

I am praying for him and this situation. :grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

:grouphug:

 

Oh :crying:. This is so, so hard. My ds is only 10, but he sounds almost *exactly* like your ds. Reading your post, I can see the writing on the wall for our future. He is PDD-NOS (with a "may be diagnosed with Asperger's in the future" thrown in ;)). I am trying now to help him understand that NO ONE can live up to his high standards...including himself. We ALL make mistakes.

 

Do you think this girl was spooked because she felt he may be obsessing on *her*? I know some day my ds will obsess on something other than Star Wars Lego and I worry that when that interest turns to a girl he won't understand when to "back off" :glare:. I mean, I know he'll treat a girl like a queen. He just has that whole chivalric thing going on, but he can't read the cues when enough is enough.

 

I would definitely research on the anti-depressants if you think it may help. Are you familiar with Wrong Planet? It's a website for support of autism and Asperger's. There are forums that may interest your ds, too.

 

Huge hugs to you. This has got to be so hard.

 

anything you can do to help him socially will benefit him. See if there is an Aspergers Association in your area. I believe they will be your biggest help.

 

When your son meets someone he's interested in, she needs to know up front that he has AS. It will be her responsibility to educate herself so she can better understand him.

 

AS people DO have successful relationships, but I think it's much harder on everyone involved. Education is key. :grouphug:

[Dobela]

College is typically the hardest time for an Aspie. I think that some Aspergers do better than others, especially if they are studying in an area that many Aspergers do, typically engineering.

 

I have read that psychotherapy doesn't help, but it apparently has with Dobela's brother. What I've read is that social groups with other Aspies, usually headed by one or more people who help run the show, so to speak, are helpful. Please check these out:

 

http://www.aagw.net/

 

http://www.poac-nova.org/

 

http://www.therapistlocator.net/families/Consumer_Updates/AspergersSyndrome.asp

 

http://www.aspfi.org/links.htm

 

I think these will be your greatest help.

Those are great links. Thank you!

 

Psychotherapy helps my brother, but when I look at it I think it helps him thru the more OCD behaviors he has rather than the Aspergers, if that makes sense. When he is hung up on something or feeling pretty negative, the person he sees is able to help him 'reason out of it'. The other reason I think it has positive effect for him is simply that the therapist is someone he respects in a role of 'suggestion giver' (brother's term) and a neutral 3rd party. When family or friends try to give him advice or help him thru something, we are viewed as being bossy or interferring, or biased. Brother does not take advice from friends and family well at all.

[Denisemomof4]

Those are great links. Thank you!

 

Psychotherapy helps my brother, but when I look at it I think it helps him thru the more OCD behaviors he has rather than the Aspergers, if that makes sense. When he is hung up on something or feeling pretty negative, the person he sees is able to help him 'reason out of it'. The other reason I think it has positive effect for him is simply that the therapist is someone he respects in a role of 'suggestion giver' (brother's term) and a neutral 3rd party. When family or friends try to give him advice or help him thru something, we are viewed as being bossy or interferring, or biased. Brother does not take advice from friends and family well at all.

 

I hope you find them helpful!

 

Your brother's view on family and friends interferring makes total sense. He is lucky to have found someone who he likes and trusts!

[Rosie_0801]

I told him she may need time and help to forgive him, but he takes that as "I did something so bad to someone, they need help to get over it."

 

 

But she's done something so bad to him that he needs help to get over it. I think they're even.

 

Rosie

[distancia]

Chris, I've sent you a PM.

 

My D just broke off a 6-month relationship with a young man who was (until the very end) an undiagnosed Aspie. He was a wonderful person, as I am sure your son is, and at the same time his OCD tendencies were just too much for my D to handle. The more needy he became--constant texting and 'phone calls and needing reassurance--the more suffocated my D felt, and pulled away from him, which further fostered his obsession. At times D felt as if she were being stalked, which wasn't the case at all.

 

She tried to break the relationship off cleanly, no further contact, which I suspect this girl (your son's friend) is doing. Sadly, it seemed the only way to manage the situation, because the Aspie tendency is to be all or nothing, and the greyness of an "occasional friendship" with a former "girlfriend" girl may well be intolerable for him.

 

More in the PM.

[Chris in VA]

Thank you so much, everyone. I was particularly interested in the Pure Obs. OCD post--see, that's why I don't want to be the only one counseling him!

 

I really, truly appreciate all the experiences you have shared.

 

Just a few answers--he has known the young lady for several years thru church. He chose the college for the program, not for her.

He does have that "responsiblity" thing.

 

I will think about all of this and hopefully he can go to get real help from irl folks who have these insights and even more.

 

This board is so caring, it's really hard to explain to others. Hugs of thanks to all of you!

[sbgrace]

It sounded like OCD to me. If it sounds that way to you as well you'd want someone who specializes in treating OCD with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. The OCD foundation maintains a therapist list if that might be helpful. http://www.ocfoundation.info/treatment-providers-list.php

Meds will likely help him with the OCD and depression both though OCD doses tend to be higher (the doctor needs to know that OCD is in the picture when selecting a dosage level). A natural substance that might help is N-acetyl-L-cysteine. There have been positive studies in OCD patients adding it to existing anti-depressants and that makes sense. But there is research on drugs with similar properties and OCD treatment (upcoming/new developments/exciting in the field). Further, I've seen some pretty good results in a study using it alone (I can't remember the doses) for trichomalacia which has some similarities brain wise to OCD so it I'd expect it to be better than nothing. I believe there was a pediatric study in fact. Of course for your son adult studies and doses matter more but it's safe anyway. That said, given what you've described if he were my guy (my guy may well be there some day) I'd want a straight up proven OCD effective anti-depressant (Celexa, Zoloft...I wouldn't do Paxil or Prozac due to side effects issues with those) and an OCD treating CBT therapist as well.

 

I feel badly for your son and you. It's so hard to watch those we love struggle and when it's a child it hurts so much more. I'm praying for him.

Edited August 29, 2010 by sbgrace