Do you have a selfish child? What do/did you do about it? (long)

[WagsWife]

We have three girls (14, 11 and 9.) They are all very well mannered, respectful and obedient.

 

Both the oldest and the youngest are very selfless. My youngest would give her favorite thing away...just to make someone happy. My oldest, is very conscientious of how much things cost. Even when we tell her not to worry about the cost, she hates for us to spend money on something she feels is too expensive. If we tell them "no" on any issue, they never give us grief.

 

Our middle daughter, on the other hand...has *none of these traits. This is not to say she is not a sweet girl, she really is...everyone who knows her loves her, and she has a very tender heart. It is just that, it is "all about Riley"...all the time.

 

She pouts:

 

• if she is told "no" at the store
  
• if she is told to do chores
  
• if she is not able/allowed do something she wants to do
  
• if she thinks others got something she did not
  
• the list could go on...
  

 

 

She also has very little work ethic. If we are cleaning the house, she is very good at either disappearing or making herself look busy while really doing nothing. Her sisters would almost rather do everything themselves, than try to get Riley to do her fair share. It gets so frustrating.

 

I feel like we are on her *all the time. I worry that she is going to grow up thinking all we ever did is gripe at her (we do make a very conscious point to praise her every chance we get because of this.) I worry that she is going to grow up and be a lazy/selfish adult.

 

We have tried all kind of things to get through to her...but so far nothing has worked. There are some things that we have done in desperation (example: making her do her sisters chores as well as her own, when she disappears)...but I wonder if they would cause more harm than good in the long term. So, tell me what you have done, and did it work?

 

ALSO, if you have older/adult children who were like this when they were younger...and now as adults are productive, selfless, positive members of society...I would LOVE to hear from you :lol:

[kathkath]

IDK but on "world's strictest parents" they tend to take kids like that and make them volunteer at orphanages, soup kitchens, etc.

[goldberry]

:bigear: I have a DD11 like this too and would love to hear some advice...

Please anyone????

 

Especially the part about did anyone have one like this who turned out NOT to be a selfish narcisisstic adult!

[KrissiK]

I have no advice. My oldest DS (7 years old) is exactly like that. And I have no idea what to do. My middle child (DS 6 yrs. old) is just like your youngest - he shares everything he has, he gets candy and immediately gives the first piece away. My daughter (4 yrs.) is average - not overly generous, but definitely not completely self-centered. My oldest does everything your child does - he whines when he doesn't get his way, he thinks the world revolves around him. He counts the # of potato chips on his plate and if he gets 4 and brother gets 5 he throws a fit. He spent all morning today at VBS doing crafts, singing, playing games, all the fun stuff and he gets home and finds out his sister (who's too young for VBS) watched an extra 1/2 hour of tv and he starts pouting and whining and saying he hates VBS. I couldn't believe it. I'm sorry you're having trouble. Just know, you're not the only one!:001_smile:

[Rosie_0801]

Have you spoken to her about it? How did that go? How is she with competition? If it inspires her, and since your other two are already obliging, I'd dream up a nice blurb about becoming young ladies and how to be a good quality person we must work on our characters to make them strong etc. I'd then institute a special challenge, to be discussed in a private conversation. With some groups of kids, you get better results by swearing everyone to secrecy and having it all as a pact between the child and you. "Secret" is a powerful word ;) With other kids, letting some in the know as to provide support really helps.

 

Perhaps having a sticker chart in a book where only you and the child involved can see? In a case like this, I'd probably let your oldest and youngest know the middle's challenge and have them secretly report whenever they think she deserves a sticker. I'd consider letting them know what my own personal challenge was too, and let them be in charge of my sticker chart. For team building, you might want to have a grand goal for everyone to share when the total reaches, say, a thousand (said with wide eyes and a very impressive voice so everyone understand the gravity of the situation, hehe) and everyone who has earned at least two hundred of the total gets to participate. I would make it clear that no one loses points for being a snot, so they can't go backwards unless they do something really, really dreadful like lying on the floor and kicking like a toddler tantrum :)

 

Of course this depends on the kids actually wanting to please you :D I've had great results with my brownies, but I somehow think those tricks won't work so well on my own kids :glare: Actually, almost no tricks work on my daughter. :glare::glare:

 

Rosie

[Jean in Newcastle]

We have three girls (14, 11 and 9.) They are all very well mannered, respectful and obedient.

 

Both the oldest and the youngest are very selfless. My youngest would give her favorite thing away...just to make someone happy. My oldest, is very conscientious of how much things cost. Even when we tell her not to worry about the cost, she hates for us to spend money on something she feels is too expensive. If we tell them "no" on any issue, they never give us grief.

 

Our middle daughter, on the other hand...has *none of these traits. This is not to say she is not a sweet girl, she really is...everyone who knows her loves her, and she has a very tender heart. It is just that, it is "all about Riley"...all the time.

 

She pouts:

 

• if she is told "no" at the store

• if she is told to do chores

• if she is not able/allowed do something she wants to do

• if she thinks others got something she did not

• the list could go on...

 

 

She also has very little work ethic. If we are cleaning the house, she is very good at either disappearing or making herself look busy while really doing nothing. Her sisters would almost rather do everything themselves, than try to get Riley to do her fair share. It gets so frustrating.

 

I feel like we are on her *all the time. I worry that she is going to grow up thinking all we ever did is gripe at her (we do make a very conscious point to praise her every chance we get because of this.) I worry that she is going to grow up and be a lazy/selfish adult.

 

We have tried all kind of things to get through to her...but so far nothing has worked. There are some things that we have done in desperation (example: making her do her sisters chores as well as her own, when she disappears)...but I wonder if they would cause more harm than good in the long term. So, tell me what you have done, and did it work?

 

ALSO, if you have older/adult children who were like this when they were younger...and now as adults are productive, selfless, positive members of society...I would LOVE to hear from you :lol:

 

Well, being generous is a good trait unless it comes with no discernment (esp. in an adult) and then a person can be too generous and harm their family. Being frugal is a good trait unless it becomes excessive and then it can become miserliness. I think I'd be careful of setting up her sisters as the prime example of what she should become.

 

Now - pouting is bad. (I have a pouter too.) I work on teaching my pouter how to express her valid emotions without pouting. I also teach her to do some self talk to head off self pity. "I didn't get what I want. Perhaps next time." or "What can I do to earn the money?" In other words, help her figure out positive ways to handle these disappointments and difficulties in her life.

 

Work ethic: She needs a specific task(s) that is only hers. If you are cleaning the house, make her responsible for one thing. No one else can do that thing. If she disappears, find her. Check on the quality of her work and make sure it is done well, if she slacked off, make her finish it correctly. But first, I would make sure she really knows how to do the task. I wouldn't spend much time criticizing her work verbally. Just calmly point out what needs to be done better. "You did a great job sweeping the middle of the floor. Now do it again and make sure you do the corners."

 

I think this child esp. might need some opportunities and encouragement to be a little entrepreneur. It sounds like she wants a lot of things. If you are able, give her opportunities to do special chores to earn one of those things at a time. A special chore needs to be something like washing the car etc. that isn't part of your daily family work. If you don't have the money to pay for special chores then I would encourage you to have her set up a bake sale or put up a sign in the neighborhood for pet sitting etc. My ds started his quick bread baking business at the end of our driveway when he was 8.

[Rivka]

I may be off-base here, but I wonder if there could be sibling issues involved. If selflessness is such a strong trait in your oldest, and something you really notice and encourage, your middle might be trying to carve out her own space in the family as being very different from her sister.

 

The book Siblings Without Rivalry has a long section about how easy it is for siblings to wind up taking on labels/roles in the family: "the smart one" vs. "the popular one," "the athlete" vs. "the musician," "the good one" vs. "the bad one." The book has concrete suggestions about how to help your kids out of those boxes. I grew up in a family where we all knew which "one" we were, and Siblings Without Rivalry gave me a lot of food for thought about how that affected our family relationships.

[Jenn in Mo]

When I see some of this emerge in my kids (or me,) I usually identify it as not being thankful. When we are truly thankful for what we have, we are eager to share with others who might not have. When we realized how blessed we are, we are eager to bless others. With one, I sat down with several discussions about this and eventually removed her things until she could show some appreciation for the little she was left with.

 

With another, the ungratefulness was evolving into a brooding, angry heart and I did something completely different than anything I would recommend. I honestly feel it was led by God because it shouldn't have worked. I blogged about it here and then here.

 

That was back in October and it really was a lesson taken to heart. He still has some anger that flares up towards his brother, but it seems to be unrelated to the rest.

 

I'm praying for you. Habits are so much easier to train and un-train. These heart-issues. Whew! Vitally important, but much more complicated to wade through sometimes.

[lionfamily1999]

My oldest dd was like this. She definitely felt like her brothers got more attention and 'things.'

 

Today, at 13, she volunteers so much it's hard to ever nail her down. She does this by her own choice (I'd rather have her home more). She gave away her hair (her beautiful, long, thick tresses that took her three years to grow) by her own choice.

 

I didn't do anything specific to break the cycle of pouting and pleading. I just didn't give in to it. We talked, a few times, about how people might percieve someone that behaved the way she was behaving. We talked about how God wants us to behave. We talked, a lot, about a lot of things.

 

:grouphug:

 

There's hope that this will mend itself, as long as you don't give into every whim. My dd noticed that people were happier to be around her when she stopped asking for things every.single.time there was a 'thing' to be had. She figured it out eventually.

[IsabelC]

No advice here, but in answer to this:

ALSO, if you have older/adult children who were like this when they were younger...and now as adults are productive, selfless, positive members of society...I would LOVE to hear from you

I would say that my brother fits the bill. He was very good at getting out of doing work as a child and teenager, and now he is wonderful and would help me out with almost anything, as well as working hard to support his family.

[Samiam]

No advice, just wanted to say you pretty much described my three childrento a "T"...except mine are boys. Middle DS can be so sweet, and a super friendly guy, but he is definately selfish, can be very manipulative (especially to youngest DS), and it's all about him, him, him. :glare:

 

I often wonder if it's a middle child syndrome. Older DS is extremely athletic, and excells at sports while Middle DS says he doesn't want to play any sports...which is fine for us, but I sometimes wonder if he thinks he "could never compete with older brother"....and meanwhile he's very competitive with younger DS..who's only four, so of course, DS7 will beat him at most things...really no competition and no glory in that...but nevertheless.

 

We try to praise the positive and hope he will outgrow....but it's still frustrating!!

[swainsonshawk]

Never did a lick of work that she could possible scheme to get out off. Mean and constantly teasing. Kniving to get things that she wanted. Now she's a pretty good mom to 6 kids. Who knew?

[WagsWife]

Have you spoken to her about it? How did that go?

 

We talk to her about it constantly. When we do...she is bored. She did not get her way, so she is not interested in what we have to say.

 

 

Perhaps having a sticker chart in a book where only you and the child involved can see? In a case like this, I'd probably let your oldest and youngest know the middle's challenge and have them secretly report whenever they think she deserves a sticker.

 

I may have to do this. I will admit I have been resistant to things like this. Normally, I am the type who does not reward for expected behavior. I expect my kids to be polite, obedient, have basic chores...ect. That is all part of living in this family.

 

 

.

[WagsWife]

Well, being generous is a good trait unless it comes with no discernment (esp. in an adult) and then a person can be too generous and harm their family. Being frugal is a good trait unless it becomes excessive and then it can become miserliness. I think I'd be careful of setting up her sisters as the prime example of what she should become.

 

Very good points! Riley is *so different from the other two. We know this, so we try very hard not to compare her to either of her sisters. Sometimes it is extremely hard :/

 

Now - pouting is bad. (I have a pouter too.) I work on teaching my pouter how to express her valid emotions without pouting. I also teach her to do some self talk to head off self pity. "I didn't get what I want. Perhaps next time." or "What can I do to earn the money?" In other words, help her figure out positive ways to handle these disappointments and difficulties in her life.

 

I like this....A LOT!

 

Work ethic: She needs a specific task(s) that is only hers. If you are cleaning the house, make her responsible for one thing. No one else can do that thing. If she disappears, find her. Check on the quality of her work and make sure it is done well, if she slacked off, make her finish it correctly. But first, I would make sure she really knows how to do the task. I wouldn't spend much time criticizing her work verbally. Just calmly point out what needs to be done better. "You did a great job sweeping the middle of the floor. Now do it again and make sure you do the corners."

 

We do this. The downstairs half-bath is hers to clean. She has had this responsibility for about 6 months. It is still like pulling teeth every day. I have to set a time limit (The bathroom has to be clean in 15 mins or there is a consequence)...if I don't I have to drag her back over and over again. When she thinks the bathroom is done, I check it, and point out what she missed. She even has a checklist. I tell that when she has done everything on the check list...the bathroom should be clean...but everyday she will tell me the bathroom is done, and then get frustrated when I point out things she obviously did not do at all. :confused:

 

I think this child esp. might need some opportunities and encouragement to be a little entrepreneur. It sounds like she wants a lot of things. If you are able, give her opportunities to do special chores to earn one of those things at a time. A special chore needs to be something like washing the car etc. that isn't part of your daily family work. If you don't have the money to pay for special chores then I would encourage you to have her set up a bake sale or put up a sign in the neighborhood for pet sitting etc. My ds started his quick bread baking business at the end of our driveway when he was 8.

 

We offer to do this (extra chores for extra money if there is something she wants.)...most of the time, the item is not that important to her. Sometime she will take us up on it...but it has to be something she *really wants.

.

[WagsWife]

No advice, just wanted to say you pretty much described my three childrento a "T"...except mine are boys. Middle DS can be so sweet, and a super friendly guy, but he is definately selfish, can be very manipulative (especially to youngest DS), and it's all about him, him, him. :glare:

 

I often wonder if it's a middle child syndrome. Older DS is extremely athletic, and excells at sports while Middle DS says he doesn't want to play any sports...which is fine for us, but I sometimes wonder if he thinks he "could never compete with older brother"....and meanwhile he's very competitive with younger DS..who's only four, so of course, DS7 will beat him at most things...really no competition and no glory in that...but nevertheless.

 

We try to praise the positive and hope he will outgrow....but it's still frustrating!!

 

You know, I used to think the whole "Middle Child Syndrome" was complete garbage...and then we had Riley. She has been "different" from birth. From the day we brought her home from the hospital, she would not let anyone hold/touch her except for her dad and I. As a baby/toddler she was extremely stubborn. If there was something she did not want to do...there really was no way of making her do it. She did not care about spankings (would even go so far as to willingly take a spanking if she thought it would get her what she wanted in the long run.), time out, have her things/privileges taken away...nothing!

 

DH and I would lay in bed at night and ask ourselves...if we can't control her at three, how on earth are we going to control her at 13! There were times where I wanted to give up and let her do what she wanted, because it would have been a lot easier. Finally, when she was about 4 1/2...it was like a light went off. All of a sudden she realized that life for her was a lot more pleasant for her when she obeyed.

 

She is very athletic and plays club soccer, but she really does not have any *close friends. This is really her own choosing. She has girls on her team, at our church, and at our co-op who ask her over...but she does it grudgingly. They are all "irritating." She has *no conversation skills. We try to get her to talk about her day, practice, anything and she gives us the bare minimum to try and get us to leave her alone.

 

It is all just Riley. I am ok with it (other than the selfish/lazy part) being her personality...*if I can be sure she is going to be ok as an adult. Not knowing the right balance of pushing her versus accepting that it is just her, is what keeps me up at night.

[WagsWife]

I may be off-base here, but I wonder if there could be sibling issues involved. If selflessness is such a strong trait in your oldest, and something you really notice and encourage, your middle might be trying to carve out her own space in the family as being very different from her sister.

 

The book Siblings Without Rivalry has a long section about how easy it is for siblings to wind up taking on labels/roles in the family: "the smart one" vs. "the popular one," "the athlete" vs. "the musician," "the good one" vs. "the bad one." The book has concrete suggestions about how to help your kids out of those boxes. I grew up in a family where we all knew which "one" we were, and Siblings Without Rivalry gave me a lot of food for thought about how that affected our family relationships.

 

When I see some of this emerge in my kids (or me,) I usually identify it as not being thankful. When we are truly thankful for what we have, we are eager to share with others who might not have. When we realized how blessed we are, we are eager to bless others. With one, I sat down with several discussions about this and eventually removed her things until she could show some appreciation for the little she was left with.

 

With another, the ungratefulness was evolving into a brooding, angry heart and I did something completely different than anything I would recommend. I honestly feel it was led by God because it shouldn't have worked. I blogged about it here and then here.

 

That was back in October and it really was a lesson taken to heart. He still has some anger that flares up towards his brother, but it seems to be unrelated to the rest.

 

I'm praying for you. Habits are so much easier to train and un-train. These heart-issues. Whew! Vitally important, but much more complicated to wade through sometimes.

 

Thank you both! I think I will check out the Sibling Without Rivalry book, it sounds like it could really give me some more insight and tools to work with.

 

I have never taken chores away...but I may have to try that and she how she reacts. For her I think it really is a heart matter, maybe it would soften her heart.

[RanchMom]

I think most kids grow out of this. (We all know a few adults who didn't. They usually spend a lot of time alone!) But most of us had some foibles that we overcame!

My eldest, ds 10, has this syndrome. It shows up in school almost every day. We've tried hinging that "thing" he likes most on getting his work done. For instance, if you get your math done in 1 hour, you may go swimming today. If not, your sibs will go and you will stay home. Or, when you finish sweeping the kitchen floor-completely--you may play with [fill in the blank-Legos, in our case]. Instead of griping when a job doesn't get done, we make it clear that finishing that job is the NEXT thing he will do. There will be NOTHING ELSE until that job is done. Completely. (Kids also know that if it's 15 minutes until we leave for church or a pre-planned event, they can dawdle and get at least a reprieve!

). . . Of course, we also do that with food. Didn't finish your chili because you don't like it? Okay, we'll put a cover on it. You can have it for breakfast. Want it cold or shall we microwave it for you?:lol:

[LizzyBee]

My oldest dd is very materialistic and selfish. A few years ago, she went on a mission trip to the town that is supposedly the poorest town in the US. She came back a changed person because she saw what poverty really is and had a new perspective on how "deprived" she is. Lately, I am just about ready to send her back for a refresher course! :D

 

As for middle child syndrome, my middle dd is the most laidback, giving child I can imagine. She's been known to give away all of her birthday money. One year for Christmas, she got something she didn't want, so dh took her to the store to exchange it for something else. When she got home, she said to her sisters, "Look what I got for us to share!" Dh and I have to remind ourselves to make sure we're giving her the attention she needs, because she doesn't demand anything.

Edited June 22, 2010 by LizzyBee

[goldberry]

All this about middle children and sibling rivalry...my selfish DD is an only child - and I keep wondering if THAT'S the problem!

 

I really think so much of it is just part of their personality. We have worked really hard since she was small to instill a sharing, loving, unselfish heart - and it just seems to bounce right off!

 

Example: There is a bible story about Jesus healing someone, and he took them outside the city away from the crowd to heal them. The point was how Jesus thought about how the person would feel, maybe scared, maybe embarassed, maybe overwhelmed, etc. So we talk about the story and ask her first, why do you think Jesus took the person outside the city to heal him?

 

Her answers: Maybe it was easier for Jesus, maybe Jesus wanted to be away from the crowd, maybe Jesus wanted a quiet space to work....

 

A light bulb went off in my head that day - she really doesn't get it! Everything in her mind is from the "me" perspective. Even applying it to Jesus!

 

How in the world do you get past that? It is such a struggle!

[Rosie_0801]

.

Perhaps having a sticker chart in a book where only you and the child involved can see? In a case like this, I'd probably let your oldest and youngest know the middle's challenge and have them secretly report whenever they think she deserves a sticker.

 

I may have to do this. I will admit I have been resistant to things like this. Normally, I am the type who does not reward for expected behavior. I expect my kids to be polite, obedient, have basic chores...ect. That is all part of living in this family.

 

Yeah, a sticker chart for being nice seems pretty lame. That's why I suggested making a big deal about special challenges and such. That way you are rewarding them for completing the challenge, rather than for behaving like they ought to be. A small difference, but you have to grasp what's there.

 

As far as testimonials go, my sister is very much like this, though I wouldn't actually be able to call her a sweet girl as you've said about your daughter. My sister has her good traits, she just doesn't spend them on her relatives. Anyway, she's grown up to help start an NGO doing aid work in a completely neglected part of Kenya. What's that phrase I read on here some time ago? "Everyone wants to save the world, but no one wants to help Mum with the dishes." I guess we can forgive them for not helping with the dishes if they actually do go off to save the world.

 

Rosie

[Faithr]

My two girls are both like this! And one son too! My oldest dd though has changed somewhat. I think she's mature enough as a young adult to realize her behavior isn't good and so she tries to fight those selfish tendencies. She goes on selflessness binges to make up for her rather visceral tendency to be self-absorbed. That said, she is a natural born leader who speaks her mind and knows how to get what she wants. She is very competent when she sets her mind on something. Look out world!!!! So there is often a flip-side to the selfishness streak that can be viewed postively. She was always, from birth, head strong and opinionated.

 

I just keep working on them, trying to raise their awareness of their own actions, teaching them values, holding up saints (we are Catholics) as models to emulate. Also, getting them to volunteer, etc is a great thing. Probably something we should do more of that around here.

 

For what it's worth, my sister just below me (sort of a middle child) was just like this, but turned into a lovely person who works hard and is a wonderful mother. I think that in some personalities immaturity manifests itself as extreme self-absorption, and hopefully growing up takes care of that!

[rwjx2khsmj]

My dd11 is somewhat like this. The thing with her is that any attention is good attention so I have to be VERY careful about where I pay my attention.

 

If I want her to work I have to be certain to only praise her when she does work and not give her any energy when she's not working. It's difficult, my nature is to fuss at her and tell her to get moving, but I'm learning that heaping blessings on her sisters and brother and leaving her job undone without any negative comment is much more effective.

 

Sometimes I also find myself paying attention to silly things. Things that don't really, IMO, deserve attention but since they are a teeny tiny step in the right direction I heap on the recognition. Dd11 is old enough to know her effort doesn't truly deserve the attention it's getting but it seems that, at times, that makes her work harder to earn what she's already received.

[WagsWife]

 

For what it's worth, my sister just below me (sort of a middle child) was just like this, but turned into a lovely person who works hard and is a wonderful mother. I think that in some personalities immaturity manifests itself as extreme self-absorption, and hopefully growing up takes care of that!

 

We pray that this is what is going on. I don't know where DD falls on the maturity scale...other than she does not fall under the "Mature for Her Age" catagory.

 

Both older DD and younger DD have always been far more mature for their ages. We can't quite decide if Riley is immature for her age, or if she is fairly normal, and our perception is skewed, because of how mature her sisters are.

[Peela]

I tihnk I would hate to be a middle child growing up being compared to my two generous sister! I think it might make me even more try to distinguish myself as "individual" by holding onto my differences. Have you read anything about being a middle child/place in the family?

 

That being said, my dd16 is generous and thoughtful and ds14 is selfish and self centred.

The message I have received over the years and which I take to heart is that he needs more loving, more patience, more acceptance..not less...for bieng the way he is.

I agree it may be an immaturity thing, too- he is immature. But it also seems to be "something they came in with" for many kids. For that reason, I think it is THEIR lesson to learn, and we are here to help THEM learn this lesson with as much love as we can, but not so that we can feel like better parents for having such lovely kids.

I know my dd's behaviour makes me look good as a parent, and ds's behaviour often doesnt. SO I have to be careful when I react to ds that I am actually being selfless myself, as much as I can be, and doing what is best for him, so that he can learn the lessons he needs to learn.

I have foudn there is very little I can do about it, but that doesnt mean we dont talk about it regularly. I think the things parents say to their kids do go in and probably stay with them the rest of their lives, so I try not to make him feel guilty for being himself. I try and get him to see that givers are happier people, that it is of benefit to him to practice being more generous.