Darth Vader was mentally ill...

[BikeBookBread]

...you just gotta read this one.

 

 

FOR THE RECORD.... I am NOT making light of mental illness whatsoever. Please believe me.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think these psychiatrists have way too much time on their hands!

[mcconnellboys]

Hmmmm, I thought BPD manifests mostly in women....? Is that wrong?

[LibraryLover]

I didn't read the article posted but, hello? Anyone who has ever seen all the episodes of SW knows that DV was a lost and tortured soul from the Get-go. He was a child slave, had no father, lost his mother, yada yada yada. Or maybe Yoda Yoda Yoda.

 

The archetype is modern day Homer. Although that would be Luke, not Anakin.

Edited June 11, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Sara R]

I liked this comment: "Can't we understand pure evil when it is imaginary?"

[LibraryLover]

I liked this comment: "Can't we understand pure evil when it is imaginary?"

 

Except Anakin was not pure evil.

[pooh bear]

I didn't read the article posted but, hello? Anyone who has ever seen all the episodes of SW knows that DV was a lost and tortured soul from the Get-go. He was a child slave, had no father, lost his mother, yada yada yada. Or maybe Yoda Yoda Yoda.

 

The archetype is modern day Homer. Although that would be Luke, not Anakin.

 

I could have told you that Aniken/Darth Vader was a few sandwiches short of a picnic, and I don't have a degree.

[LibraryLover]

I could have told you that Aniken/Darth Vader was a few sandwiches short of a picnic, and I don't have a degree.

 

 

Exactly. Archetypes ain't rocket science. Although again, the protagonist is Luke, not his father. DV adds layers, gives form, offers a past. The antagonist is not DV.

 

Who is the antagonist?

 

Go ahead...discuss...

[*Inna*]

I didn't read the article posted but, hello? Anyone who has ever seen all the episodes of SW knows that DV was a lost and tortured soul from the Get-go. He was a child slave, had no father, lost his mother, yada yada yada. Or maybe Yoda Yoda Yoda.

 

The archetype is modern day Homer. Although that would be Luke, not Anakin.

*snort* :iagree::lol:

[elizabeth]

Thank you!!! Dd is taking her first psychology class and is a Star Wars fan from the word go. This will definitely pique her interest and perhaps have her looking at Buffy the Vampire Slayer or some of the X men in a whole new light. I appreciate it when things are posted that are just interesting to consider and you never know how that information might be really helpful to someone. Here's to hoping dd skips over the whole freudian analysis this could lead to because that is a whole nother can of worms.

[silliness7]

Exactly. Archetypes ain't rocket science. Although again, the protagonist is Luke, not his father. DV adds layers, gives form, offers a past. The antagonist is not DV.

 

Who is the antagonist?

 

Go ahead...discuss...

 

I'm no good at literary analysis but I've seen Teaching the Classics :001_smile:

 

I pick Man v. Himself

Luke is his own antagonist...am I right, am I right?

am I wrong?

don't laugh at me...I'm really new at this.:glare:

[Dawn in OH]

I rather thought that anyone over 16 who saw the movies could determine that Anikan/Darth Vader was not mentally stable.

 

I don't mean to insult anyone that missed it, I just found it to be very obvious. It may not be to someone who has no experience with people that are not stable.

[LibraryLover]

I'm no good at literary analysis but I've seen Teaching the Classics :001_smile:

 

I pick Man v. Himself

Luke is his own antagonist...am I right, am I right?

am I wrong?

don't laugh at me...I'm really new at this.:glare:

 

Hey, cool! Someone actually wants to chat about a movie!!

 

Here's my deal:

 

Luke is absolutely the protagonist. He is trying to save his world, move forward.

 

But.

 

Does he thwart himself? He might wrestle with his own insecurities, his own shortcomings, but he really wants to save it all.

 

Vader seems like the antagonist, but he is really a pawn. He loves Luke, he reaches out to Luke (Luke, I Am Your Father). He is not trying to thwart Luke's search; not even as he gives the death knell to his dd Leia's home planet, Alderaan.

 

Who is the one trying to stop any growth /understanding at any turn?

 

Discuss....

[Mynyel]

I mean really?

[LibraryLover]

I mean really?

 

 

YES! Really! Contemporary stories are not always without form! :lurk5:

Edited June 11, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Jennefer@SSA]

:lurk5: Very interested in the discussion! Lit analysis is completely new to me so I'm content just to observe. ;)

[silliness7]

Hey, cool! Someone actually wants to chat about a movie!!

 

Here's my deal:

 

Luke is absolutely the protagonist. He is trying to save his world, move forward.

 

But.

 

Does he thwart himself? He might wrestle with his own insecurities, his own shortcomings, but he really wants to save it all.

 

Vader seems like the antagonist, but he is really a pawn. He loves Luke, he reaches out to Luke (Luke, I Am Your Father). He is not trying to thwart Luke's search; not even as he gives the death knell to his dd Leia's home planet, Alderaan.

 

Who is the one trying to stop any growth /understanding at any turn?

 

Discuss....

 

O.K. Well I was thinking maybe Luke because he really has to struggle with whether to turn to the dark side or not.

It reminded me of the very first book I tried to analyze after I'd done TtC...Sarah, Plain and Tall. The conflict is all internal.

 

But if we're looking for the one trying to stop growth and understanding are we talking about Han then?

 

Is George Lucas really that deep? I'm now remembering the very first lecture from my GNED college Lit class. Prof said that Lucas used the white/black visual to get the classic good guy bad guy theme across like they did in old Westerns. So Vader would be the bad guy and Luke in his little white get-up would be the good guy.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I love it! I think it's interesting that the authors stayed with the personality disorders, though. There are so many other great psychiatric/psychological diagnoses that could be touched upon. Why stick with Axis II?

 

---

Interesting thread.

[silliness7]

In the larger scheme of things the movie is about the conflict between The Empire and the Rebellion.

 

In the beginning of the movie Luke is just a bored, whiny farm boy with father issues. He then finds himself in the middle of this larger conflict and has to choose sides. I think Vader would be the antagonist though because it is Vader who is trying to seduce him to choose the dark side. Without Vader there is no real reason for him to wander that direction. So the conflict is internal in a way but really is driven by Vader. He surely must be the antagonist.

 

Han is just in it for the money. He doesn't pick sides. He's too pragmatic. Would that make him a foil for Luke's idealism? I'm bandying terms about willy nilly. I probably should be locked in a literary prison.:willy_nilly:

 

Luke vs. Darth Vader

and that's my final answer. :auto:

[silliness7]

Oh wait...If Vader is a pawn, he is the Emperor's pawn. He's actually the one behind it all. And in the end Vader defeats the Emperor, something Luke couldn't do on his own (edited again to add that -- defeating the Emperor was not something Anakin/Vader could do on his own either)

 

So it's Luke vs. the Emperor. Right?

 

ETA: AND in the end Luke was not swayed by the Emperor's woos to the dark side unlike Vader who was seduced by the Emperor.

So in Episodes 1-3 you've got Emperor vs. Anakin and Emperor wins. Then in 4-6 you get Emperor vs. Luke and Luke wins and redeems Anakin.

Edited June 11, 2010 by silliness7

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Oh wait...If Vader is a pawn, he is the Emperor's pawn. He's actually the one behind it all. And in the end Vader defeats the Emperor, something Luke couldn't do on his own.

 

So it's Luke vs. the Emperor. Right?

 

ETA: AND in the end Luke was not swayed by the Emperor's woos to the dark side unlike Vader who was seduced by the Emperor.

So in Episodes 1-3 you've got Emperor vs. Anakin and Emperor wins. Then in 4-6 you get Emperor vs. Luke and Luke wins and redeems Anakin.

 

:iagree:

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Hmmmm, I thought BPD manifests mostly in women....? Is that wrong?

 

Nope, mostly in women but there is an increase in the number of men with BPD diagnoses.

[silliness7]

O.K. now my hubby is saying it's Anakin vs. himself and that Luke was just the catalyst to cause Anakin's eventual victory. That's kind of making sense to me. He claims he got this information from George Lucas himself (not personally ;))

[Food4Thought]

 

Who is the one trying to stop any growth /understanding at any turn?

 

Discuss....

 

The Emperor is the true antagonist. That thread flows through all 6 movies too. I don't think Vader is truly evil - just misunderstood. Like Luke said, "I still see some good in you!"

[Food4Thought]

Oh wait...If Vader is a pawn, he is the Emperor's pawn. He's actually the one behind it all. And in the end Vader defeats the Emperor, something Luke couldn't do on his own (edited again to add that -- defeating the Emperor was not something Anakin/Vader could do on his own either)

 

So it's Luke vs. the Emperor. Right?

 

ETA: AND in the end Luke was not swayed by the Emperor's woos to the dark side unlike Vader who was seduced by the Emperor.

So in Episodes 1-3 you've got Emperor vs. Anakin and Emperor wins. Then in 4-6 you get Emperor vs. Luke and Luke wins and redeems Anakin.

 

You posted while I was posting! :iagree:

[silliness7]

O.K.

Anakin vs. The Emperor

They are the only characters that are constant through all 6 movies (not counting droids and ghosts)

Truly, this is my final answer and I'm going to bed.:auto:

[Granny_Weatherwax]

The real question is: If Anikin would have been psychologically healthy would he have turned into Darth Vader? Would he have been able to stand against the Emperor?

 

(I have not seen the second set of movies so I have no idea how the plot progresses)

[Jean in Newcastle]

Exactly. Archetypes ain't rocket science. Although again, the protagonist is Luke, not his father. DV adds layers, gives form, offers a past. The antagonist is not DV.

 

Who is the antagonist?

 

Go ahead...discuss...

 

I asked ds(almost 13) this. He said "Definitely Palpatine. He manipulated Anakin/Darth Vader." I'm so proud.:D

[Guest rubilynne4]

wow! interesting, but i hope they didn't use a bunch of funding to find this out. i am a total star wars fan, and i loved the anakin character. was so sad knowing he wold eventually turn to the dark side.

[Penelope]

yada yada yada. Or maybe Yoda Yoda Yoda.

 

:lol:

[LibraryLover]

The Emperor is the true antagonist. That thread flows through all 6 movies too. I don't think Vader is truly evil - just misunderstood. Like Luke said, "I still see some good in you!"

 

 

That's where I am going. :)

[LibraryLover]

I asked ds(almost 13) this. He said "Definitely Palpatine. He manipulated Anakin/Darth Vader." I'm so proud.:D

 

 

:D See?

 

This is why when people say 'OMG! My kids watched Star Wars in English class! Cab you believe that? In English?! " I don't go crazy, but think "Good". :lol:

[LibraryLover]

Oh wait...If Vader is a pawn, he is the Emperor's pawn. He's actually the one behind it all. And in the end Vader defeats the Emperor, something Luke couldn't do on his own (edited again to add that -- defeating the Emperor was not something Anakin/Vader could do on his own either)

 

So it's Luke vs. the Emperor. Right?

 

ETA: AND in the end Luke was not swayed by the Emperor's woos to the dark side unlike Vader who was seduced by the Emperor.

So in Episodes 1-3 you've got Emperor vs. Anakin and Emperor wins. Then in 4-6 you get Emperor vs. Luke and Luke wins and redeems Anakin.

 

 

:) Isn't this fun?! :)

[LibraryLover]

I think one could argue Luke. Man against himself is a running theme in literature.

 

I also think, if one takes each movie on it's own, rather than the whole, one could even argue Han at one point. An antagonist doesn't have to be bad, just getting in the way. Is it the first movie where Han says he won't join the Alliance, even though he could be a huge help to put down the Empire?

 

FTR, I am not even a huge SW fan...I like the idea of it, however. The first movie has deadly dialogue...really campy etc. I do like epics, however, and I do think SW is an epic story. I also like how it develops and deepens over time. (Jar Jar not withstanding). One of my kids is named after DV. ;) So maybe I am a fan. Although I have never to been to a convention. I did take the kids to see Star Wars in Concert last fall, and I loved it. lol Smoke, fire, lasers...hehehehehee.

 

 

O.K. Well I was thinking maybe Luke because he really has to struggle with whether to turn to the dark side or not.

It reminded me of the very first book I tried to analyze after I'd done TtC...Sarah, Plain and Tall. The conflict is all internal.

 

But if we're looking for the one trying to stop growth and understanding are we talking about Han then?

 

Is George Lucas really that deep? I'm now remembering the very first lecture from my GNED college Lit class. Prof said that Lucas used the white/black visual to get the classic good guy bad guy theme across like they did in old Westerns. So Vader would be the bad guy and Luke in his little white get-up would be the good guy.

[Food4Thought]

I think one could argue Luke. Man against himself is a running theme in literature.

 

I also think, if one takes each movie on it's own, rather than the whole, one could even argue Han at one point. An antagonist doesn't have to be bad, just getting in the way. Is it the first movie where Han says he won't join the Alliance, even though he could be a huge help to put down the Empire?

 

FTR, I am not even a huge SW fan...I like the idea of it, however. The first movie has deadly dialogue...really campy etc. I do like epics, however, and I do think SW is an epic story. I also like how it develops and deepens over time. (Jar Jar not withstanding). One of my kids is named after DV. ;) So maybe I am a fan. Although I have never to been to a convention. I did take the kids to see Star Wars in Concert last fall, and I loved it. lol Smoke, fire, lasers...hehehehehee.

 

I wouldn't call myself a huge fan either, but I do love to talk about Darth Vader. I think he is one of the better villains ever created. I always felt sympathetic toward him, even more so after seeing the third movie (which made me really despise Obi-Wan, BTW). Despite his immature acts, the Jedi forced his hand, and only the emperor showed him any grace (as false as it was).

 

I think each movie has its own protagonist and antagonist, but the overarching villain and hero would be Palpatine & Anakin. Kinda like Harry Potter - he's fighting a different villain each book, but all along the true villain is Voldemort.

[Jean in Newcastle]

:D See?

 

This is why when people say 'OMG! My kids watched Star Wars in English class! Cab you believe that? In English?! " I don't go crazy, but think "Good". :lol:

 

See, I disagree. We read and discuss classical literature and he reads/watches Star Wars type stuff for fun. It took him 3 seconds to figure out a sensible answer.

[Parrothead]

Except Anakin was not pure evil.

And pure evil isn't imaginary.

[LibraryLover]

See, I disagree. We read and discuss classical literature and he reads/watches Star Wars type stuff for fun. It took him 3 seconds to figure out a sensible answer.

 

 

:) I always think that The Bard would have loved to see his work on film. We have a myraid of ways to make and view art/creativity today. :) I love movies/films, plays,concerts, books...all of it. :)

Edited June 12, 2010 by LibraryLover