For those of you who practice narration in your homeschool

[sarahv]

I think that I understand the point and value of narration. I just can't seem to see it happen in my minds eye. I'm not quite sure how it is different from asking oral questions or just simply explaining back what has been read.

 

I read this article (http://www.amblesideonline.org/PR/PR35p610SomeNotesNarration.shtml), which I felt was very good and informative, but I'm having some issues making it practical. Where do we start? What does narrations look like? How do y'all do it?

 

Thanks!! Looking forward to reading your thoughts and experiences with narration...

[MomLovesClassics]

Writing with Ease has been more than helpful to me. It gives specific questions to ask. Then it also gives specifics to how the summary should look like.

[Greta]

I'm not quite sure how it is different from asking oral questions or just simply explaining back what has been read.

 

Well, it really is just asking the child to explain back what has been read. This allows them the freedom to process it in their own way and focus on what they think is important or interesting about it, whereas specific questions don't do that. In some ways, I think it can be more challenging for them than specific questions, because they have to think about the entirety of what they've heard and put it all together in a coherent way, rather than just focusing on a few isolated points.

 

We started narration with Aesop's Fables when my dd was in K. These stories are pretty short, and always have a moral lesson to give them focus, so I think they are an excellent way to introduce narration. I would simply tell my daughter that I was going to read her one of the stories, and then she would tell it back to me in her own words. It worked beautifully!

[Jen+4dc]

Writing with Ease has been more than helpful to me. It gives specific questions to ask. Then it also gives specifics to how the summary should look like.

 

:iagree: This is how I got started! It helped ds move from what's your "favorite part" or "one thing you remember" to summarizing the basic storyline.

 

Well, it really is just asking the child to explain back what has been read. This allows them the freedom to process it in their own way and focus on what they think is important or interesting about it, whereas specific questions don't do that. In some ways, I think it can be more challenging for them than specific questions, because they have to think about the entirety of what they've heard and put it all together in a coherent way, rather than just focusing on a few isolated points.

 

We started narration with Aesop's Fables when my dd was in K. These stories are pretty short, and always have a moral lesson to give them focus, so I think they are an excellent way to introduce narration. I would simply tell my daughter that I was going to read her one of the stories, and then she would tell it back to me in her own words. It worked beautifully!

 

Good idea using Aesop's Fables! I'm going to try that next year with dd5 who will be in kindy. I was debating what to do with her....Thanks!

[Irishmommy]

Well, it really is just asking the child to explain back what has been read. This allows them the freedom to process it in their own way and focus on what they think is important or interesting about it, whereas specific questions don't do that. In some ways, I think it can be more challenging for them than specific questions, because they have to think about the entirety of what they've heard and put it all together in a coherent way, rather than just focusing on a few isolated points.

 

We started narration with Aesop's Fables when my dd was in K. These stories are pretty short, and always have a moral lesson to give them focus, so I think they are an excellent way to introduce narration. I would simply tell my daughter that I was going to read her one of the stories, and then she would tell it back to me in her own words. It worked beautifully!

 

Thanks! I was wondering how to start with dd for kindy!

[Night Elf]

Narration looks differently from grades 1 through 5 as the student gains more experience. It helps focus the mind on a main idea and supporting details. It also helps with kids who like to be too wordy. When my son started narrating, he wanted to tell the entire story back. Narration is getting the bare bones. That was a really a struggle for him, and still is today sometimes. It's his nature to be detailed and generalizing doesn't come easy.

 

When my children started narrating, they spoke aloud while I typed. The purpose of that method is to not put too much on a child at one time. The act of getting thoughts onto paper is a different skills. Young children may not be there yet. If told to write a narration before they are developmentally ready to think about what they want to say, organize the ideas into words before they speak, and to write complete sentences, they'll flounder when all of those things are expected at one time. That's why narration moves slowly from oral, to mom writing first couple of sentences and child writing rest, to the child doing the written narration independently

[kdeno]

with a basic "Tell me all you remember about ________". Sometimes it takes a while for them to narrate if they remember all the details. I want them to have the skill of summarizing but I also see value in the children reviewing the details to aid in their memory and understanding of the subject.

 

Kari

[silliness7]

Having the child tell back in his own words what was just read with the freedom to focus on whatever was important or interesting to him is a Charlotte Mason type of narrating.

 

Summarizing of the main point is more of a SWB type of narrating.

 

They have always seemed to be two totally different beasts to me. With the younger ones I expect a CM type narration. When they get older we go more with an SWB summary. Summarizing the main point definitely seems like a logic level skill. At this point they are reading independently and doing written narrations. To help my dc transition I will do the reading myself as well and write out my own summary. Then we compare notes. This is a great jumping off point for discussion too.

[misidawnrn]

I love WWE. We just got started last week and I was just going to use the "idea" of it with other stuff like SOTW but I like that it has the questions all written out on what to ask.

For example yesterdays was about the Lion and the Mouse. I read the story to DD and the questions were "What animals were in this story?"

"What did the Lion want to do to the Mouse?" "How did the Mouse help the Lion?"

I like that it gives specifics, not just "what do you remember?" that is such an open ended question. This teaches kids to focus on one part of the story.

[LoveBaby]

Having the child tell back in his own words what was just read with the freedom to focus on whatever was important or interesting to him is a Charlotte Mason type of narrating.

 

Summarizing of the main point is more of a SWB type of narrating.

 

They have always seemed to be two totally different beasts to me. With the younger ones I expect a CM type narration. When they get older we go more with an SWB summary. Summarizing the main point definitely seems like a logic level skill. At this point they are reading independently and doing written narrations. To help my dc transition I will do the reading myself as well and write out my own summary. Then we compare notes. This is a great jumping off point for discussion too.

 

Thank you!!

 

People keep talking about narration and then about asking ???'s and I'm thinking that the whole point wasn't to ask questions but to allow the child to make the connections for himself. Aha...SWB narration and CM narration are different! That makes more sense now!!

[cottagechick]

Having the child tell back in his own words what was just read with the freedom to focus on whatever was important or interesting to him is a Charlotte Mason type of narrating.

 

Summarizing of the main point is more of a SWB type of narrating.

 

They have always seemed to be two totally different beasts to me. With the younger ones I expect a CM type narration. When they get older we go more with an SWB summary. Summarizing the main point definitely seems like a logic level skill. At this point they are reading independently and doing written narrations. To help my dc transition I will do the reading myself as well and write out my own summary. Then we compare notes. This is a great jumping off point for discussion too.

 

I've come to this conclusion too....When I was reading (and listening to) SWB's writing methodology on narration, it sounded very different to what I'd learned in a CM book.

 

I like your idea of starting with CM style narration to train the ear to remembering a story, then moving into the more logic-stage 'main point' summaries once they're writing their narrations fairly easily (and doing beginning outlining in history).

[prairiegirl]

Narration is going to look different in every home as we all have different ages and we all have children of different temperament.

 

My oldest is not doing narrations very much anymore but I think I am going to change that for next year. Right now she is reading her story and then writing out the main idea of each chapter.

 

I read the section (or chapter) to my 9 yr. old and he writes out what happened. He is very succinct so he does the WTM version of narrations.

 

My 7 yr. old tells me her narration, I write it out for her and then she copies it.

 

This is going to be different for each child, though. My oldest wasn't ready to write out her own narrations until earlier this school year. She also was one to give flowery narrations. I let her go at it until this year then I asked her to give only the main thoughts.

 

I agree that WWE is a perfect intro to narrations. It helped me to understand the process of narrating.

[creekmom]

Thanks! I was wondering how to start with dd for kindy!

 

 

I think for a K'er, I would read the story and then ask her, "What is one thing you remember about the story?" - WWE suggests doing this in book 1- Just make sure you have her tell you the one thing in a complete sentence. I'm at the end of WWE book 1 with my first grader. At this point, I have him tell me 2 things he remembers from the story (in 2 complete sentences). I write the sentences down, and he copies them. It works beautifully, and he truly understands what a complete sentence means! Yay!!

[sagira]

CM suggested not to start until child is six years old, and that's what we did. Ds was always narrating anyway, telling me stories of what he saw, what he read.. this was just the next logical step. I have him tell me as much as he remembers. It practices his powers of observation, organization, and diction. He mostly narrates history, he orally tells me and lately he's been just telling me and I haven't been writing it down. I'm going back to writing them down, as it provides a good record of his learning. Ds takes pleasure in reading them again too, and this provides a great review.

 

In Natural Science, he creates mini books about what he learned. In other lessons, he sometimes makes a drawing about what he learned. I consider these other forms of narration. Next year he's going to do more narrations through Grammar with Primary Language Lessons (PLL).

Edited May 25, 2010 by sagira

[Chris in VA]

I think it's important to remember that SWB uses narration as a tool in a writing process-- it teaches the child to see the main points, and then the details. This leads into outlining--You are asking the child to see beyond the minutia to the main ideas so that she can one day structure her writing.

[Tracy]

:bigear: This is a fascinating thread. I have been wanting to implement narration with Grasshopper, but she has such a good memory that she actually tries to recite the entire story back to me using the same words as are in the book. She gets a little frustrated with herself when she cannot do that. When I try to reassure her that she does not have to, she responds as if I have just lowered the standards to accommodate her inability. :angelsad2: She is very bright but still only 5yo. Is narration just too much to ask of her yet?

[sarahv]

I have WWE, which I am planning on using in the fall, but as I was reading on AmblesideOnline, it seemed that Charlotte Mason was somewhat different. Thanks to those who gave their opinions on the differences and others who explained how you do it! Gives me ideas...

 

I think my ds could easily narrate at this point - he is six, but given some of these responses, I think my 4 year old could do it as well. I found it very interesting that CM suggests narration all the way through 12th grade. It may pave the way well for rhetoric?? These were my thoughts as I was reading about it done the CM way.

 

Also, CM (just some articles on AmblesideOnline) suggestions included other ways of narrating other than oral, and I found it interesting that SO MANY narrations were a part of the school day--Like narrations of almost every subject. Do any of you follow a more strict CM approach to narrating?

 

And though I love WWE as a introductory approach to writing skills, I think that CM narrating has a broader purpose. Do others of you agree?

[forty-two]

I found it interesting that SO MANY narrations were a part of the school day--Like narrations of almost every subject. Do any of you follow a more strict CM approach to narrating?

 

And though I love WWE as a introductory approach to writing skills, I think that CM narrating has a broader purpose. Do others of you agree?

 

I agree that CM narrating has a broader purpose. Narrating for CM was a way to make the material one's own - both in the sense of remembering it and in the sense of having thought about it and integrated the new information into one's worldview. It seems like the skills of determining the main point and how it was logically developed was addressed in the CM model (though I only have a rough idea how, atm), and it was expected that narrations would naturally (or with gentle help as required) incorporate these skills as the student mastered them.

 

I'm still in the planning stages wrt hs'ing my dc, but I've seen the power of CM narrating in my life - while reading David Copperfield a few years back, I spontaneously "narrated" to my dh, in that I would tell him about all the bits that really struck me along with all the necessary backstory to understand it - and I remember DC on just one reading much, much better than I remember stuff I've read multiple times but without narrating or otherwise interacting with it. And I really made it my own - by talking about the stuff that mattered to me, I naturally went beyond plot summary and discussed the broader issues raised by the book.

 

CM said that an unnarrated lesson was a lesson wasted. I thoroughly agree, and I intend to do some sort of narration after every lesson. I'm just not sure what percentage will be WTM-style narrations/outlines (I think they are a great, efficient, holistic way to teach all sorts of LA topics) versus CM-style narrations. Most all curricula do *something* to help students remember the lesson, and I think that narrations (and outlining, and other sorts of self-generated output) are much better - both for learning the current lesson and for learning how to learn - than answering lesson-specific questions thought up by someone else.

Edited May 27, 2010 by forty-two

[sarahv]

:bigear: This is a fascinating thread. I have been wanting to implement narration with Grasshopper, but she has such a good memory that she actually tries to recite the entire story back to me using the same words as are in the book. She gets a little frustrated with herself when she cannot do that. When I try to reassure her that she does not have to, she responds as if I have just lowered the standards to accommodate her inability. :angelsad2: She is very bright but still only 5yo. Is narration just too much to ask of her yet?

 

Funny, my son's eyes widened when I told him to tell the story back to me, and replied with, "Mom, I don't know how to read that book!". When I told the story to him in my own words after reading it from the book, he got the idea. He's actually really good at "telling stories", so I approached it from that angle.

 

forty-two, I agree with your post about CM narrating. Very interesting to read your comments. I do think that verbal and written review of lessons are two very important aspects for cementing the information. Reading about narration from different points of view help give me ideas about integrating different styles of review into the lesson.

 

I'm getting excited about the potential for narration in our homeschool!:D

[dancer67]

Does this mean though, that the parent has to read the book as well? How do you know that when a child narrates the story back to you, that he isn't just adding things in that didn't happen or he really does not know who the main character of the book is? IOW, how do you know it's right if the parent doesn't read the book as well?

My daughter just read a book. And I asked her, so what was it about? She gave me about a 3 second tell back of the story. Just like anyone on the street would ask me "Hey have you read such and such book and what was it about?". Narration is an everyday skill, isn't it?

Maybe I am missing something here?

[Kfamily]

Forty-two, this is how I see CM narrations as well. I think they are much more than simple retellings. I would easily agree that children would have to outgrow these at some point so I think that if you look closely at how narrations are handled in CM as they get further along in the years, you will see that the style and type of narrations change and adapt to this need. CM narrations begin to include more literary analysis, connections made with history, etc.

[Caribbean Queen]

I said. "Tell me about the assasins in Pinocchio" I read from the book about 5 days ago. I also read about that about a year ago. This is from a six year old.

 

"Pinocchio fell into the assasin's hands and one of the assasins tried to open his mouth but Pinocchio bit off the assasin's hand, and it was a cat paw. The assasins were the cat and fox! He ran but the assassins ran after him and tied him to the big oak tree. And the fairy saved him."

 

I said, "Okay."

 

He did not explain why the assasins wanted to open the puppet's mouth. Pinocchio was hung from the tree, not tied the tree. I let those things go. The last sentence is a fragment. I don't correct something unless it is really wrong. I am very reluctant to ask questions to draw out info. I am more of a CMer than a SWBer.

[Night Elf]

I think it's important to remember that SWB uses narration as a tool in a writing process-- it teaches the child to see the main points, and then the details. This leads into outlining--You are asking the child to see beyond the minutia to the main ideas so that she can one day structure her writing.

 

Thank you, that's a better way of saying it than my try. My children are having to learn that it is not good to retell every little detail. I don't want the entire story rewritten, I want it summarized. That's really a difficult skill to learn. I remember our first try was putting The Tortoise and the Hare into less than 8 sentences. I thought my son was going to explode!:tongue_smilie:

[kalanamak]

Writing with Ease has been more than helpful to me. It gives specific questions to ask. Then it also gives specifics to how the summary should look like.

 

:iagree: A third of the way thought level 2, and I feel very confident asking the right questions to help him focus on *any* writing we read, not just the WWE samples. I'm looking forward to where WWE is going to go. And I say this not as a PHP groupie. I didn't use FFL or OPGTR.

[sarahv]

Forty-two, this is how I see CM narrations as well. I think they are much more than simple retellings. I would easily agree that children would have to outgrow these at some point so I think that if you look closely at how narrations are handled in CM as they get further along in the years, you will see that the style and type of narrations change and adapt to this need. CM narrations begin to include more literary analysis, connections made with history, etc.

 

Yes. This is how I see narrations as well. More interaction with the literature instead of just fact retention.