The value of State Colleges

[Wheres Toto]

There have been a lot of threads lately about funding for college and the extremely high cost involved. In some there seemed to be a feeling that state colleges are inferior to private schools in some fundamental way. (some of what follows is a quote from a previous post but why reinvent the wheel, right?)

 

I've attended a private college, a statecollege and an online school. I think that it's as easy to find a statecollege that will make you happy as a private school - if you know what you're looking for. Other than prestige, the only thing I've seen mentioned as a plus in a private college are small class size (which can be had at state colleges) and vague ideas of ambiance. State colleges often have more course/major offerings, easier scheduling (more sessions offered) and more financial aid, not to mention a lower price tag to begin with.

 

I live in an extremely populous state (NJ) and went to what is one of the least expensive state colleges ($85 a credit when I attended which was less than 10 years ago - as an adult, although I did attend daytime classes with kids). I did not have a single class which had over 30 students and only those that were the general core requirements even came close to that. This school was fairly large but had a small community feel and offered many more programs and opportunities (not to mention financial aid) than the private college I attended previously. If I had started off at the state college I probably would have been able to finish in less than the 14 years in eventually ended up taking me (I could have done 4 years at the state school in what we spent for 3 semesters at the private college - not counting travel costs. I went to a private college in Texas.)

 

Just about everyone I've talked to (and I worked full time for almost 20 years in a variety of industries - about 10 different companies) has said that no employers ever cared where their degree came from - only that they had one. This may be different for certain careers (lawyers?) but DH is an executive with a pharmaceutical company and his experience is the same (his degree is from a state college).

 

There are good and bad, large and small in state colleges and private colleges. Even as an out-of-state resident many state colleges will be much cheaper than in-state options at private schools. It's a viable option to be explored.

 

 

(Thank you Jodene.) :-)

[creekland]

 

There are good and bad, large and small in state colleges and private colleges. Even as an out-of-state resident many state colleges will be much cheaper than in-state options at private schools. It's a viable option to be explored.

:-)

 

:iagree: I also went to a higher ranked state school and had a great time. However, for what it's worth, the small private school my oldest is attending is less expensive for us than state schools he considered due to scholarships.

 

My recommendation is to search for schools that fit (major, location, academic level, size, etc, etc, etc), apply and get in, see how the finances work out, then make your decision. I think too many people limit themselves based on financial thoughts way too early in the game.

[Jane in NC]

Hmmm...I think you may be reading more into some posts than I have. Some people choose a private college for themselves or their children. Perhaps this just means that they believe these schools offer programs which are better for themselves or their students--not necessarily better for everyone on the planet.

 

Further, some private colleges are so generous with merit or financial aid that they are actually less expensive or the same price as a state university. Perhaps the bottom line motivates some decisions?

 

Regarding all schools being equal: I believe that is not quite an accurate statement as some schools have much higher acceptance rates for their students in graduate or professional programs. This is not just true for public vs. private but for some public universities compared to sister institutions within the same state.

 

I agree with your last statement, namely that there is good and bad at a variety of schools. Those of us who have been sharing the application process over on the college board have been looking for the right fit for our students. I have not witnessed the sweeping generalizations that you have.

 

Jane

[ScoutTN]

I agree that neither state schools nor private ones are can accurately be labeled with broad brush strokes.

 

I'm a grad from a public university, which I attended out-of-state. Got a great education with no debt. TN (where I live now) doesn't have as many choices in public higher ed than VA (where I went to college), but all areas are covered and the price is right! I also have a masters from a small, private school. With no debtand no help from my parents.

 

A prestigious school doesn't guarantee a great education, but a real desire to learn, a great work ethic and perseverance do.

 

For many of us there are financial parameters which are simply not negotiable. This was the case when I was a student and will be for our children. We are unable to save much toward college expenses and are unwilling on principle to borrow. We will consider a wide range of options and not rule out anything without checking it out. While some schools may not be the best fit (size, location, specific degree programs or academic strengths, ideological/religious orientation, amount of structure etc.) or a "first choice" - our children can still learn well, make good friendships and be well prepared for their post-university life. We are willing to be old-fashioned about the financing of education as well as the importance of it. (Both of my grandmothers, who were born in the 19th century, had masters degrees if that tells you some thing about how my family considers education.)

Edited April 26, 2010 by ScoutTN

[JillZ]

I think state universities are great! They are the top schools in many areas of science (along with the Ivy League schools) and it's hard to match their resources and opportunities at most smaller, private colleges (unless they happen to be a Research I university).

[Photo Ninja]

State colleges can be a very good value and they often have much lower tuition costs than private schools. If a student wants a large school with a lot of variety in offerings, state universities meet that requirement. A state diploma is not inferior to a private school diploma. Most the time it won't matter where the degree was earned.

 

I think the value they offer depends on what the student is looking for or is willing to settle for, and what state you are talking about. .

 

Our state's two university systems are huge, impacted, and not reliable right now. But even with their planned tuition increases, they are less costly than private colleges, definitely a big positive when weighing options.

 

However, there are strong negatives. The Admissions and financial aid offices often don't answer emails or the phone because they are understaffed. Many times they give out wrong information if you decide to stand in line for hours to talk to them in person. Along with the lower tuition costs comes the reality that it will often take six years to get an undergrad degree because there are too many students and too few classes offered. University counselors are telling high school students who are on tours of the schools to plan on spending at least six years there.

 

Students who are admitted are not guaranteed any classes, leaving students to decide if they want to gamble with their academic futures and goals. They must decide if the state university is worth the risk. There are thousands of students who have had to take at least one semester off school because they can't get any classes at all. Many who do get classes can't take classes they want. They must settle for whatever is available that will meet the requirement, even when they have no interest in that class and it doesn't fit with their major. They feel fortunate to simply enroll in a class. (My dc have friends in this situation.) Some state university students are also taking classes at a community college because the state university does not offer enough undergrad classes. My dc have friends at a state university that are taking one class there and the rest of their courses at a community college. Many of them are now deciding on other universities for next fall. Other students have not been able to take enough credits to be even part-time students at the state schools, resulting in penalties like student loans refused, student loans beginning the repayment period, loss of health insurance, not being qualified to live in the dorm anymore, etc. One state university had a dorm full of freshmen and very few had enough credits to meet the minimum necessary to live in the dorm. If a student views these negatives as less important than lower costs, then the state schools are a good choice. That student will be happy with his decision to attend a state school.

 

Many students in my state, my children included, have decided that the state universities are not worth the hassle or risk. One ds was admitted but couldn't get any classes. He lost a semester of his time and went to the community college the next semester so he could remain a student. He will be transferring to an out of state university for next fall because the state university is not reliable enough. Our state university system is not worth it. My other ds is thriving at a private school. He knew the state university system was not for him. My youngest has her goals and has learned from her brothers and friends and from a counselor at the community college. She will be either going out of state or to a private university. In fact, the counselor at the community college is telling students to go out of state or to a private university if at all possible, and to transfer to a state university only as a last resort.

 

My dc at a private university will graduate in four years. It is a pleasure to deal with the Admissions and financial aid office staff. The state university was the complete opposite experience. However, my ds has had good communication with the Admissions office at the out-of-state state university he will be attending, so I know much depends on which state's university system we are talking about. They are not all bad. Our experience is that private universities do give much more money in merit scholarships and grants than state schools.

 

Anyway, when one compares a state university with my ds's private university, the private one wins for us. He was offered a merit scholarship at the private school (offered nothing at the state university), a grant (nothing from the state university) and can graduate in four years (vs six years at the state university). In fact, figuring out costs of six years at a state school (the realistic time frame) compared to four years plus merit scholarships and grants at the private school, my ds is only paying a few thousand dollars more total to attend the private school if we compare with one university system and paying less for the private school than with the other state university system. On top of that, he gets to take the courses he wants, graduates in four years, has smaller classes, has relationships with teachers, a nicer campus (subjective, of course) and his books cost less. Dorms and meals are about the same price at both, and fees are lower at the private school. Parking is free at the private school and costs $95 per quarter at the state university.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to enter some facts and experiences into the comparison of state university vs private university discussion. Many people discount private schools on the basis of tuition costs alone, not realizing that they often offer more scholarships. A state university can result in a low cost, quality diploma, if one is willing to deal with the corresponding hassle and risk (in some states), and if one doesn't care about taking undergrad courses relevant to one's major or one's interest. And yes, I realize that not all states run their universities the way my state does. That is why one ds will be attending a state university in a different state. It will be an excellent school for him.

 

There is a lot to consider when making the decision between private and state universities, and as difficult as it is to fund a college education (I worry about the expense, too), one must look at other factors than tuition costs alone. But yes, state universities can be a valuable option.

[wapiti]

It depends a whole lot on what one plans to do with the degree. In some situations (i.e., certain professions and grad schools), the school's "ranking" or perceived rigor compared with other institutions, whether public or private, may matter a whole lot on a person's resume or application. In other situations, not so much. It all depends on the situation.

 

I don't look at this question as public vs. private, but instead where the particular school fits in the larger scheme of the industry/area in which one intends to "use" the degree.

[JFSinIL]

:iagree: However, for what it's worth, the small private school my oldest is attending is less expensive for us than state schools he considered due to scholarships.

 

 

 

That is the case with our oldest, too. In fact, every private school to which he applied included information that he would be considered for every merit scholarship for which he was eligible. None of our state schools did this! In fact, our local state school, NIU, simply has the information at their website that it is up to the student to wade through hundreds of scholarships and apply individually to any he/she thought he/she might get.

 

Need I add, he did not apply to any of the Illinois public schools (although he did those of Minnesota, Michigan and Montana, all of which offered scholarships without any extra paperwork being filled out!!!)

Edited April 26, 2010 by JFSinIL

[bettyandbob]

I live in VA. Between UVA, Va Tech and William and Mary you'd be hard pressed to find a degree, school size and nationally recognized program not offered. It's my understanding that for Music JMU and CNU have nationally recognized programs and VCU is well-known for art. As an undergrad at WM I had classmates who went to MIT, CalTech and UMass for grad school. I had one classmate who had to choose between Harvard or Johns Hopkins for Med School.

 

I think there are other states which have a similar selection in state schools. At the same time there are states that do not. One thing that state schools are doing is raising out of state tuition. At the same time they are accepting a higher percentage students from out of state than they have in the past--so it will soon be harder to get into one our great schools if you live in the state compared to residing elsewhere.

 

I do know some private schools have good scholarship opportunities, which can make the cost comparable or even less than a state school.

 

You just have to consider your goals and all your options. If your goal is a PhD with the hope of pursuing scholarly research, then you need to choose your schools wisely. If you want be a lawyer at a big Manhattan law firm, those law firms often only interview candidates from a handful of schools, so you need to be sure you went to the right one. If you want to be a nurse, attending a public university with a strong program is a great option. If you really aren't sure, attending a strong public university with a range of degree programs can be a good option.

[Chris in VA]

I live in VA. Between UVA, Va Tech and William and Mary you'd be hard pressed to find a degree, school size and nationally recognized program not offered. It's my understanding that for Music JMU and CNU have nationally recognized programs and VCU is well-known for art. As an undergrad at WM I had classmates who went to MIT, CalTech and UMass for grad school. I had one classmate who had to choose between Harvard or Johns Hopkins for Med School.

 

I think there are other states which have a similar selection in state schools. At the same time there are states that do not. One thing that state schools are doing is raising out of state tuition. At the same time they are accepting a higher percentage students from out of state than they have in the past--so it will soon be harder to get into one our great schools if you live in the state compared to residing elsewhere.

 

I do know some private schools have good scholarship opportunities, which can make the cost comparable or even less than a state school.

 

You just have to consider your goals and all your options. If your goal is a PhD with the hope of pursuing scholarly research, then you need to choose your schools wisely. If you want be a lawyer at a big Manhattan law firm, those law firms often only interview candidates from a handful of schools, so you need to be sure you went to the right one. If you want to be a nurse, attending a public university with a strong program is a great option. If you really aren't sure, attending a strong public university with a range of degree programs can be a good option.

 

So glad you gave a shout-out to VA state schools.

Comparing should be school to school, because you can't paint state schools and private schools with such a broad brush.

[LibraryLover]

State schools can be awesome! As with any college, it's a matter of finding the right fit for the right person. :iagree:

[Mergath]

I also agree that state schools can be awesome. There are some that are horrible, though. Same with private schools.

 

I spent one semester at St. Cloud State University here in Minnesota, and what I saw was pretty bad. The students that I saw were drunk a surprising amount of the time and classes were usually near empty; the professors had, I think, just given up; and there wasn't a dean's list because, as my advisor put it, "It would probably be you and two other people."

 

I switched to the University of Minnesota, which is a great system, and it was amazing. The classes were rigorous and many were quite small- I took an advanced writing course that had five students- and the professors were wonderful. They had amazing resources, and I loved every minute of it.

 

There was also an elite, very-expensive private school just down the road. I had a friend that switched from the U to the private school, and according to her, it wasn't really any different from the state school, except the buildings were falling apart, the computers were ancient, they didn't offer many classes, and the rooms were all freezing.