Does Classical Education KILL the joy of learning?

[robsiew]

I think the fastest way to drill out the love of learning from a child is the teacher, not the curriculum. A good teacher can make even the WORST curriculum a gold mine. Personally, we follow most of the suggestions of WTM, but not all (some would not be a good fit for me or the kids). I would say we are "classically educating". However, if I get the idea that anything is becoming drudgery I change up my plan. Not necessarily changing curriculum (although at times that may be necessary), but more so how I present it.

 

For me, the classical model gives me a framework from which to work. I love knowing where our education is heading. We are reading many different books than we would be reading had I not found this approach. I'm pleased that my children will grow up learning many things I did not, and be better for it.

 

However, really at the heart of classical education is the fostering of the love of learning. The classically educated child does know a great deal, but by the time he/she is finished with 12th grade... he/she should know HOW to learn and HOW to present his/her ideas clearly to others... it's then that the door to the world is wide open to them and they are free to follow their dreams. Keeping this in mind, I believe classical education can create a hunger for learning..... now.... how do I as a teacher provide that? :D

[Miss Marple]

I know few students of any schooling method who exhibit "joy of learning". I think the joy of learning comes when one looks back on what one learned and is thankful for it. The process of learning is painful at times, humorous at times, mind-numbingly boring at times, and exciting at other times.

 

Having schooled with various methods, none of which I have ever done on a purist level, I can truly say that it doesn't make a bit of difference to my kids which method we use. They would be more joyful if I let them play X-Box all day:D

 

I think terms like "joy of learning", "life long learner", etc. are all just buzz words. Around here we hear about the kind of schooling that produces godliness. It isn't the process, it's the heart. The process doesn't change the heart. Some kids just love to learn and go at it with abandon, others have to be pushed and prodded and bribed and scolded.

 

If your friend found that "classical" didn't work for her, and another method did, great! She's learned what works best for her family and what standards to which she can aim. But that's no reason to say "classical" doesn't work, and work well, for others.

[8filltheheart]

I think the fastest way to drill out the love of learning from a child is the teacher, not the curriculum. A good teacher can make even the WORST curriculum a gold mine. :D

 

Have you ever spent time reading Einstein's quotes? I love them.

 

Here are a couple of my favorites:

 

Teaching should be such that what is offered is perceived as a valuable gift and not as a hard duty.

 

The search for truth is more precious than its possession.

 

I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.

 

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.

 

I'll stop, b/c I could keep on! The passion for more understanding and delving deep vs. surface knowledge = daily educational objectives.

Edited April 11, 2010 by 8FillTheHeart

[hmschooling]

Interestingly, I just watched a BBC America segment on schools in Finland. They have a less-is-more philosophy (less time in the classroom, very high outcomes). Their content is rigorous and I wouldn't be surprised if there were similarities to classical ed. It just depends on how it is implemented, I suppose. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/world_news_america/8601207.stm

 

A Finnish math teacher is who wrote Math Mammoth :001_smile:

[Janice in NJ]

No one is dead here yet...

 

Learning that leads to success feels great.

Being able to do hard things well feels great.

Spending years filling educational buckets takes time.

Is it worth it? Yes! For us, YES!

 

Are we "classical?" Who knows? A ton of definitions for that one. Maybe that's why some people feel that it kills a love of learning. Maybe for some, it does kill a love of learning. Maybe for others, they might have been pursuing something without every figuring out exactly what "it" was. Now THAT's frustrating! :001_smile: Working super hard with no growth, no development, no lights at the ends of the tunnels? That wouldn't be too much fun. In that case - :iagree: It would kill a love of SOMETHING!

 

Anyway - sorry if I'm not much help. We have learned to do a lot of hard things well. That feels amazing! I. Just. Can't. Tell. You!

 

No real regrets here. Little dribbly bits of regrets here and there? Sure. But I don't need to make a list of our potholes in the road. All in all, we're enjoying the ride immensely. We have a couple more years to go, but it looks like I might actually be able to dub this experiment a success. We're still a ways away from the end - but I see light, baby! And wow! I can tell you that it looks very cheerful!

 

Peace!

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[kelouis75]

I'm with EstherMaria.

Yep, there are many things in life that are not fun, but we still need to do them... I don't try to kill all the joy, but I do stand firm on methods, curricula and subjects that I think would be good for them. We rotate between classical and unschooling year round. The schedule: 10 weeks my classical program/2 weeks whatever learning subjects they want. Then a week break. Repeat.

 

Plus I don't overshedule them so they have plenty of time to explore subjects that interest them outside of school time.

[angela in ohio]

Plus I don't overshedule them so they have plenty of time to explore subjects that interest them outside of school time.

 

I think this is key as well. I know overscheduled kiddos who aren't even that rigorously schooled, but look like zombies who don't enjoy anything. Running from one thing to another to another with no down time to think or play will make anyone unhappy.

[birchbark]

I think the fastest way to drill out the love of learning from a child is the teacher, not the curriculum.

 

There is a lot of truth to this.

 

I think a good education will include both the joy of learning and the discipline of learning. Angela&4boys referred to this on a recent thread. Charlotte Mason also wrote about the "disciplinary subjects" and the "inspirational" ones and recommended interspersing them through the school day.

 

It seems to me that it is really important to especially cultivate the joy of learning while students are younger. But at some point kids have to buckle down and gain the skills needed for higher learning. Probably that is why so many of us like the Classical/Charlotte Mason combo.

[frogpond1]

and I have followed a Classical approach since kindergarten. I see no evidence of it killing the joy of learning. Sometimes things get hard, but there is joy in doing the hard things too. I get new students in my little 2 day school every year and they eat it up eagerly. They love coming to school. I think you have to understand rigor in a sequential, age appropriate- brain appropriate manner and not push your child to do something he/she isn't ready for. You have to give up running around to take the time to do the work properly. I think the focus on truth and beauty to be so amazing. I think Classical Education lights a fire for us. It provides so much nourishment. It is not dry fill in the blanks. To see the wonders of language and where words came from and how they are related, to read rich literature, to feel comfortable wrting and speaking... It is so amazing. I've been doing this now for 9+ years and wouldn't go a different route for anything. Thanks SWB for turning me on to it.

[EKS]

I know few students of any schooling method who exhibit "joy of learning". I think the joy of learning comes when one looks back on what one learned and is thankful for it. The process of learning is painful at times, humorous at times, mind-numbingly boring at times, and exciting at other times.

 

Having schooled with various methods, none of which I have ever done on a purist level, I can truly say that it doesn't make a bit of difference to my kids which method we use. They would be more joyful if I let them play X-Box all day:D

 

I think terms like "joy of learning", "life long learner", etc. are all just buzz words. Around here we hear about the kind of schooling that produces godliness. It isn't the process, it's the heart. The process doesn't change the heart. Some kids just love to learn and go at it with abandon, others have to be pushed and prodded and bribed and scolded.

 

If your friend found that "classical" didn't work for her, and another method did, great! She's learned what works best for her family and what standards to which she can aim. But that's no reason to say "classical" doesn't work, and work well, for others.

 

:iagree:

[Lovedtodeath]

I know few students of any schooling method who exhibit "joy of learning". I think the joy of learning comes when one looks back on what one learned and is thankful for it. The process of learning is painful at times, humorous at times, mind-numbingly boring at times, and exciting at other times.

 

Having schooled with various methods, none of which I have ever done on a purist level, I can truly say that it doesn't make a bit of difference to my kids which method we use. They would be more joyful if I let them play X-Box all day:D

 

I think terms like "joy of learning", "life long learner", etc. are all just buzz words. Around here we hear about the kind of schooling that produces godliness. It isn't the process, it's the heart. The process doesn't change the heart. Some kids just love to learn and go at it with abandon, others have to be pushed and prodded and bribed and scolded.

 

If your friend found that "classical" didn't work for her, and another method did, great! She's learned what works best for her family and what standards to which she can aim. But that's no reason to say "classical" doesn't work, and work well, for others.

Some people have a personality that is more bookish than others, etc. I am finding that more and more things are more nature than nurture, and this is one of them, IMO.

[Heather in WI]

I haven't read the other posts yet because I don't want to be influenced by them before I post.

 

I would say that we homeschool classically.

 

And, my boys LOVE to read and LOVE science. The middle LOVES history. The oldest LOVES math.

 

They don't LOVE grammar and the oldest doesn't LOVE Latin. But, it is still expected to be done, LOL. ;)

 

The people that I know IRL, as opposed to on these boards, who make comments about classical education like the ones you mentioned ..... their kids don't love learning. (And, that is putting it mildly.) In fact, as their children get older and I watch these children develop, I am more and more grateful for us sticking with TWTM as our base.

 

I think the proof is in the pudding.

[Reya]

The "joy of learning" is in the learning itself. Period.

 

I honestly think that teaching a child "classically" is like raising a child on the finest cuisines of multiple nations versus giving a kid an unlimited supply of pizza, chicken fingers, and french fries. Sure, most kids will pick the crud at first. It naturally appeals to childish tastes. Glittery cheap gewgaws, too, will attract the eye of a small child over objects of taste.

 

If you raise a child to love knowledge, then learning itself will be joy. But if you raise a child on cute, cheap activities, then they get used to filling up on chicken fingers and french fries and have no ability to enjoy real learning at all.

 

Now, there are plenty of ways to make classical education a poor fit/tedious/overly burdensome, and mistaking dry repetition for rigor is probably the commonest mistake (let's learn Latin because endless declensions and conjugations help you think logically! uh, no it doesn't--it just replaces real learning with lots of paperwork). But if you're really teaching classically, teaching to instill the mind with knowledge and the tools of thought, then you give a child a taste for good things, not for cheap substitutes.

[Jenn in Mo]

The "joy of learning" is in the learning itself. Period.

 

I honestly think that teaching a child "classically" is like raising a child on the finest cuisines of multiple nations versus giving a kid an unlimited supply of pizza, chicken fingers, and french fries. Sure, most kids will pick the crud at first. It naturally appeals to childish tastes. Glittery cheap gewgaws, too, will attract the eye of a small child over objects of taste.

 

If you raise a child to love knowledge, then learning itself will be joy. But if you raise a child on cute, cheap activities, then they get used to filling up on chicken fingers and french fries and have no ability to enjoy real learning at all.

 

Now, there are plenty of ways to make classical education a poor fit/tedious/overly burdensome, and mistaking dry repetition for rigor is probably the commonest mistake (let's learn Latin because endless declensions and conjugations help you think logically! uh, no it doesn't--it just replaces real learning with lots of paperwork). But if you're really teaching classically, teaching to instill the mind with knowledge and the tools of thought, then you give a child a taste for good things, not for cheap substitutes.

 

Oooh! That was good. I needed to hear that.