GRRR...cutting off toxic relationship

[swellmomma]

I was having yet another rough day with ds11. He went into several rages that including smashing my phone, threatening suicide and ripping out a tooth. I cancelled the party they were going to host on Saturday as a result(he has been warned everyday this week that if the rage continued I would cancel it).

 

Anyway, I called my mom to vent about it and get it off my chest so that I could cool down before going to deal with ds. Her brilliant idea, stick him on the next bus to his father and let him deal with him. His "father" (my estranged husband), has barely seen ds since we separated 9 years ago. He signed over full custody to me 2 years ago and continues to make very little contact. He refused to acknowledge he had kids while we were still together he has written them off since we split. Sending him to his dad's is not an option. I explain this to my mom. so then she says "then stick him in foster care. I am tired of the sh*t he does"

 

Gee thanks grandma, so glad you love your grandson.

 

My mom always expected perfection out of us when we were kids, and even now she tries to push that. Any of us that are not perfect is a poor reflection on her. This is 90% of the reason her and I have so many issues, I was never the perfect one, nor will I ever be now. She can not stand that my children are so far from perfect it is insane, and lets me know it regularily but aside from comments during my prenancies with all of them she was not so hurtful as to suggest they not be here.

 

I am so fed up with her nonsense. The thing that really irks me too, is when cps came knocking they also talked to her and she told them any time I felt I needed to take a step back and talk about an issue here she would be there to listen to me. She has refused to do so ever since that meeting ended.

 

I am stuck btw a rock and a hard place right now too, because of the house my dad is buying with/for me. I want to cut off all contact with my mother and eliminate that toxic relationship, but still have stuff to do about this house with my dad before we actually move. ONce we sign the contract btw each other I will feel better, but whenever my mom feels that I am not doing as she commands in the last year she pulls the plug on the house thing. I am scared she is going to again just to cause problems for me (I already gave notice here).

 

I am trying to do the best I can to give my kids a healthy environment and deal with their extra issues so they have a chance at a decent future but hateful comments like my mom made do not help that goal at all.

 

Thanks for letting me vent

[2cents]

I'm sorry you are going through this. You are in a tough position as far as the house goes. My advice to you would be to seriously 'edit' what you share with your mother. I appreciate that you need someone to vent to but under the circumstances I don't think your mother is your best option. She isn't supportive and uses the information to make your situation more complicated. I hope you can find someone other than your mom who you can talk to that will be more supportive and a good listener. :grouphug:

[Parrothead]

Don't call her. Don't tell her anything other than your life is perfect.

 

If your dad is supportive, talk to him if you know he won't tell her what you say. If you can't talk to your dad, either talk to a friend, pastor or just vent here.

 

Good luck.

[Carol in Cal.]

I understand that you resent your mom not continuing to support you as she told CPS that she would, but really, when she said that to them she was supporting you in a way. It's not necessarily reasonable of you to expect her to step into this situation rationally.

 

After all, you are her DD. You have children who don't have a father in the family, one of whom is seriously violent. What could she possibly say to your comments about him getting violent? What would you want her to do instead? She and her DH are helping you buy a house, and they helped you get past the CPS investigation. I don't think that they can fix the situation with your son--what could they do about it? If I were her, and you told me the story that you told here, I would have no idea at all what to say. What can she do that is right in this situation?

 

It sounds like she really has some issues, and I'm very sorry about that. It doesn't make sense to me for you to call her with these impossibilities. She is already doing all she can, and more than most people would do.

[FlockOfSillies]

You know all this about your mom, yet you still choose to vent to her. Not a good plan. Find someone else to be your sounding board.

[swellmomma]

I did not expect my mom to jump in and save the day. All I wanted was an ear to listen/shoulder to lean on long enough to calm myself down so I could deal with ds calmly. Dealing with him when I am angry at his behviour does not help him or the situation as a whole. She told CPS she would let me vent to her because I was keeping it in and it was causing my depression to get bad. Since they are wanting me to get rid of my depression and stop being isolated I called her. I don't have anyone else to vent to irl, and being a public forum if I do vent here(which I do obviously), I get people telling me to keep it to myself or have teh threads deleted.

 

My dad is helping buy the house because I was moving far away and he knew that would be the end of any relationship they have the with kids as my relationship with my mom has gotten increasingly strained over the years.

 

Yes it was my own fault venting to her. I should have known better, but I honestly thought in the moment venting to her was better than taking that frustration at ds out on him. No matter what issues she has with me I am still shocked she would think it is time to throw away her own grandson though. I have known my whole life her love in conditional when it comes to her kids but for whatever insane reason I thought when it came to her grandkids it would be different. I was stupid to think that.

 

It still hurts to hear her say that about her own grandson.

[LibraryLover]

Honestly, I knew what your post was going to be about before I opened it. It's an old story, but you must get something out of the relationship or you would have cut her off a very long time ago.

 

I never assume that someone who is related to me loves me or my kids. That's never a given for anyone.

[Annabel Lee]

I can empathize. I've been through similar w/ my dd... but that's a long story. I get that you need support and you may need a break from the rages too. I agree w/ the above advice to just stop reporting anything negative to your mom. To me, this seems obvious, but is counseling already happening? If so, ask your counselor about support groups for parents dealing w/ similar stuff. Loving friends can be great, too.

 

Whether your son is just acting out of stubborn willpower, emotional manipulation, or really does have an issue(s), it needs to be addressed. Here's some advice I received that I'm just passing along: drive him to the ER and have him admitted for a day into the psych ward the next time he threatens suicide. I was told to ask "Do you really mean that?", and then either get the child into the car or call for an ambulance if they are physically uncooperative. This was supposed to show that such threats are unquestionably never taken lightly and should not be spoken lightly (just for manipulation and not as expressing true desire to end life). Take it or leave it - I don't know your whole situation or parenting style so I have no idea if this applies. It's a very last resort move. ETA: and it's a move that only deals with one tiny aspect of the whole thing.

 

I'm so sorry your family is going through this. It's so hard. It really can change and turn out well in the end. All hope is not lost, but I know that doesn't make it any easier right now. (((hugs)))

Edited March 26, 2010 by Annabel Lee

[justamouse]

Yikes that's a rough spot.

 

Well, you know that you can't talk to her about your son, but the way I read it was that she is angry because your son is hurting you. She can't help you, really, so her solution is to send him away. Just a thought. But I know how much it hurts to not have the support you need in those situations.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[Carol in Cal.]

Undoubtedly this is a very difficult situation.

 

She can't fix this, I don't think, and she is not a good place to vent to. So there is no good reason to talk with her about this. I understand that you need a place to vent, and that that is better than talking with your son before you calm down, but your mom is not able to fill that role.

 

I wish that I could do it for you, because I can see how much you need someone to talk to, but I'm not local to you. I do encourage you to vent here, and also to say in your posts that you're venting and hoping for a listening ear (otherwise everyone will try to fix things with you instead of just being sympathetic.)

 

I also think, and I think you know this already, that you need someone IRL to talk with about this, but not your mom. I'm so sorry that you don't have someone like that right now. I wonder whether Parents Helping Parents would be able to connect you with a support group around this specific issue? They are really good at that, and I'll bet that there is a BTDT group that would be perfect for you.

 

((( :grouphug:)))

[swellmomma]

I can empathize. I've been through similar w/ my dd... but that's a long story. I get that you need support and you may need a break from the rages too. I agree w/ the above advice to just stop reporting anything negative to your mom. To me, this seems obvious, but is counseling already happening? If so, ask your counselor about support groups for parents dealing w/ similar stuff. Loving friends can be great, too.

 

Whether your son is just acting out of stubborn willpower, emotional manipulation, or really does have an issue(s), it needs to be addressed. Here's some advice I received that I'm just passing along: drive him to the ER and have him admitted for a day into the psych ward the next time he threatens suicide. I was told to ask "Do you really mean that?", and then either get the child into the car or call for an ambulance if they are physically uncooperative. This was supposed to show that such threats are unquestionably never taken lightly and should not be spoken lightly (just for manipulation and not as expressing true desire to end life). Take it or leave it - I don't know your whole situation or parenting style so I have no idea if this applies. It's a very last resort move. ETA: and it's a move that only deals with one tiny aspect of the whole thing.

 

I'm so sorry your family is going through this. It's so hard. It really can change and turn out well in the end. All hope is not lost, but I know that doesn't make it any easier right now. (((hugs)))

 

 

He has spent 3 weeks in the mental ward before, 2 days is nothing. We know it is related to his issues. Counselling is not happening yet, though I have been demanding it. I have been trying to get therapy for him and as a family for years but the shrinks keep refusing. They feel meds are his only option, therpay is useless. I disagree. Since i am stuck with CPS right now I am making them work for me, so they are arranging for a therapist to see us for free, and a new shrink. We are also having a behaviour consultant come out once our file with Family supports for children with disabilties becomes active April 1. That person will come and wrok with him here and give me ideas on how to work with him during a rage etc.

 

The ped wants to put him on antipsychotics but I don't want to do that until we have exhausted all other avenues (therapy, behaviour consult, new shrink, allergy testing etc) because the risks associated with them is so severe.

 

I have been dealing with ds and his issues on my own since the beginning (my husband would not come home if the kids were awake). I am burned out, and just needed my mom to listen. I keep turning back to her because I keep projecting what I think a mother should be like onto her, thinking she will change. You would think after 32 years I would learn better, but I keep hoping.

 

I am done hoping. I am done with her. Honestly after today I have realized it is better to be alone than have family like that. My kids and I don't need it anymore.

[StephanieZ]

:iagree:

 

You know all this about your mom, yet you still choose to vent to her. Not a good plan. Find someone else to be your sounding board.

 

Set a good example for your kids. . . by choosing safe and supportive people with whom to share your struggles.

 

You can be polite, and even friendly, with your mom w/o letting her "in" to the more sensitive parts of your life. When you talk to her, talk about HER, about the weather, about something happy. . . not about anything that is sensitive to you.

[secular_mom]

May I make a small suggestion that will hopefully be somewhat helpful?

Posting here seems to help get things off your chest, but you probably don't really want to post about EVERYthing here. Try typing it all down in a Word document instead, that way it gets OUT of your head and you can let it go. Typing it down kinda helps you get your thoughts gathered too, and can help you change perspective/find solutions/etc. even if you aren't getting feedback from others like you do on a message board.

I know that doesn't help the big picture things, but hopefully it will help with the need to vent. And you won't have someone throwing your words back at you in the future if you don't give them away in the first place. (but you might want to delete the 'post' after you are done writing it, OR print it out and burn it- that can be a big stress relief too)

[mom4him]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I don't understand controlling parents. Hopefully your house deal will be signed soon and things can level out for you.

[woolybear]

I DO understand about venting to someone (family in my case also) that I should know by now not to. It is really, really hard expecting support and understanding from your mom and getting that. It does sound as if you are in a bind about the house, but try really hard to find another confidante. (Even just an e-mail one.) :grouphug:

 

Woolybear

[KidsHappen]

He has spent 3 weeks in the mental ward before, 2 days is nothing. We know it is related to his issues. Counselling is not happening yet, though I have been demanding it. I have been trying to get therapy for him and as a family for years but the shrinks keep refusing. They feel meds are his only option, therpay is useless. I disagree. Since i am stuck with CPS right now I am making them work for me, so they are arranging for a therapist to see us for free, and a new shrink. We are also having a behaviour consultant come out once our file with Family supports for children with disabilties becomes active April 1. That person will come and wrok with him here and give me ideas on how to work with him during a rage etc.

 

The ped wants to put him on antipsychotics but I don't want to do that until we have exhausted all other avenues (therapy, behaviour consult, new shrink, allergy testing etc) because the risks associated with them is so severe.

 

I have been dealing with ds and his issues on my own since the beginning (my husband would not come home if the kids were awake). I am burned out, and just needed my mom to listen. I keep turning back to her because I keep projecting what I think a mother should be like onto her, thinking she will change. You would think after 32 years I would learn better, but I keep hoping.

 

I am done hoping. I am done with her. Honestly after today I have realized it is better to be alone than have family like that. My kids and I don't need it anymore.

 

Raging in a child is a major symptom of bi-polar. Honey, as a bi-polar person, I am telling you that as an adult I can not control raging without medication. I imagine it would be even harder for a child. My own dd is bi-polar, raging was her major problem. She has been medicated for about five years now and it has made a world of difference in her life. Yes, it takes heavy duty meds to control raging and yes they can have serious side effects but it sounds to me like there is already serious safety concerns for your son. There is no nice way to say this so I am just going to say it and hope that your hear that it is coming for a place a caring and concern: you need to reconsider the medication issue for your son especially if he is not getting help otherwise. As he enters puberty and has more testosterone entering his system he could become far more dangerous to himself and others. He needs to be stabilized before that point. I am so sorry that you are going through this and that you have to do it alone and I really don't want you to feel like I am ganging up on you when you are down but having been there myself I am trying to give your the best advice I have. I hope that things improve for you soon. :grouphug:

[swellmomma]

Raging in a child is a major symptom of bi-polar. Honey, as a bi-polar person, I am telling you that as an adult I can not control raging without medication. I imagine it would be even harder for a child. My own dd is bi-polar, raging was her major problem. She has been medicated for about five years now and it has made a world of difference in her life. Yes, it takes heavy duty meds to control raging and yes they can have serious side effects but it sounds to me like there is already serious safety concerns for your son. There is no nice way to say this so I am just going to say it and hope that your hear that it is coming for a place a caring and concern: you need to reconsider the medication issue for your son especially if he is not getting help otherwise. As he enters puberty and has more testosterone entering his system he could become far more dangerous to himself and others. He needs to be stabilized before that point. I am so sorry that you are going through this and that you have to do it alone and I really don't want you to feel like I am ganging up on you when you are down but having been there myself I am trying to give your the best advice I have. I hope that things improve for you soon. :grouphug:

 

Thank you. I am not totally against meds, he is medicated for his adhd. I am just against using an antipsychotic (in his case risperdol) before all other avenues have been explored. I have been saying he is bi-polar for almost 3 years now but the shrink we were seeing didn't want to label him as such yet. I am hoping once we are into this new one they will listen and perhaps then meds will be an option. The ped admits he is not the expert in this area so I do not want him pushing meds kwim. (THis is the same ped that suggested putting dd into ps so she could get suspended and learn to follow the pack-so you see why I will not jump right into his suggestion of that med). I think there are other safer options of meds to stabilize bi-polar than risperdol isn't there?

 

I do not feel you are ganging up on me. As someone who has BTDT you have experience I can glean from and for that I am greatful. Ds has always had issues, and I was warned that when puberty hit things could get more difficult, but that was back when he was 5 and the shrink at the time was pretty much writing ds off. Now that we are in teh midst of those hormone surges his aggression is through the roof. This rages have been becoming more frequent for the last 2 months and I am so stressed out with him. I have always noticed his behaviours were cyclical but no one wants to listen because of his age. It is very frustrating.

 

Could you pm me any links you have to good sites about bi-polar. ALso would you mind pming me about the kinds of meds usually used to treat bi-polar. They just increased his dose of ritalin and it seems to be making things worse not better.

[Sonshine]

I get everything you are saying about your mother. Perhaps it would be helpful to find something(s) that you and your mother could have somewhat close to reasonable discussions about. Maybe you both like flowers or some other neutral topic. I get that she will still manage to turn these discussions into attacks on you, but at least you may have something neutral to talk about. If you can find several topics she really likes to talk about maybe when she starts to go nuts on you, you could introduce one of those topics of conversation and if she loves to talk about that subject, the tide of the conversation can be turned. There are certain topics I love to talk about and if someone wanted to start a conversation about one of those topics I would find it hard to refuse. Even if you don't like to talk about any of the same topics she is interested in, think of it as a pass the bean dip thing. Kind of like trying to connect with a teenager and talking about the latest teen movies out or whatever floats their boat - it's better than arguing and gives you something to relate to. With your house situation, I would want to keep up a relationship with my parents.

[treestarfae]

I would try pharmaceutical grade molecularly distilled fish oil and evening primrose oil. Kids DHA on this site- http://www.barleans.com/omega_kids.asp#

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA400011

I would play nature sounds and check out some therapy books that you can do. Hormones can change medication results if going through puberty. Try to find a male role model to talk to him about puberty. Hormones can change brain chemistry especially with anger/depression. Get some anger management books for children. Also therapy books for depression. Depression/suicidal is anger turned inward. I will post some books after I look.

[treestarfae]

Check out anger management programs like this http://www.fight4kids.com/Anger-Management-Class.htm

Can he join a sport, exercise more Wii Fit to help get some energy out?

[Laurie4b]

Yikes that's a rough spot.

 

Well, you know that you can't talk to her about your son, but the way I read it was that she is angry because your son is hurting you. She can't help you, really, so her solution is to send him away. Just a thought. But I know how much it hurts to not have the support you need in those situations.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

It does sound like that is her motive, but it also comes across loud and clear how much it hurts you for her to write him off.

[Laurie4b]

Thank you. I am not totally against meds, he is medicated for his adhd. I am just against using an antipsychotic (in his case risperdol) before all other avenues have been explored. I have been saying he is bi-polar for almost 3 years now but the shrink we were seeing didn't want to label him as such yet. I am hoping once we are into this new one they will listen and perhaps then meds will be an option. The ped admits he is not the expert in this area so I do not want him pushing meds kwim. (THis is the same ped that suggested putting dd into ps so she could get suspended and learn to follow the pack-so you see why I will not jump right into his suggestion of that med). I think there are other safer options of meds to stabilize bi-polar than risperdol isn't there?

 

I do not feel you are ganging up on me. As someone who has BTDT you have experience I can glean from and for that I am greatful. Ds has always had issues, and I was warned that when puberty hit things could get more difficult, but that was back when he was 5 and the shrink at the time was pretty much writing ds off. Now that we are in teh midst of those hormone surges his aggression is through the roof. This rages have been becoming more frequent for the last 2 months and I am so stressed out with him. I have always noticed his behaviours were cyclical but no one wants to listen because of his age. It is very frustrating.

 

Could you pm me any links you have to good sites about bi-polar. ALso would you mind pming me about the kinds of meds usually used to treat bi-polar. They just increased his dose of ritalin and it seems to be making things worse not better.

 

If he is bi-polar, ritalin will definitely make it worse not better. For specific help for your kiddo, you might want to post on the special needs board.

[Carol in Cal.]

It's an old story, but you must get something out of the relationship or you would have cut her off a very long time ago.

 

 

(I don't mean that you're being untruthful, I hasten to add. It's just that this assertion doesn't seem to me to be accurate.)

 

I don't think that everyone who stays in contact with a difficult family member is 'getting something out of the relationship'. I think that some stay out of a desire to fix things, or a felt obligation, or a religious commitment, or something like that.

 

In this particular case, the OP is very dependent on her parents in several ways. It sounds like venting to them is counterproductive and should be avoided, but not like they are necessarily all bad or all controlling or toxic enough to necessarily justify cutting all ties.

[LibraryLover]

What is the title of this thread?

 

(I don't mean that you're being untruthful, I hasten to add. It's just that this assertion doesn't seem to me to be accurate.)

 

I don't think that everyone who stays in contact with a difficult family member is 'getting something out of the relationship'. I think that some stay out of a desire to fix things, or a felt obligation, or a religious commitment, or something like that.

 

In this particular case, the OP is very dependent on her parents in several ways. It sounds like venting to them is counterproductive and should be avoided, but not like they are necessarily all bad or all controlling or toxic enough to necessarily justify cutting all ties.

[Carol in Cal.]

What is the title of this thread?

 

Clearly I disagree with the title, and I have explained why, but sympathetically, in several prior posts.

[LibraryLover]

Clearly I disagree with the title, and I have explained why, but sympathetically, in several prior posts.

 

 

You disagree with the title...? Do you know this family irl?

Edited March 26, 2010 by LibraryLover

[KidsHappen]

Thank you. I am not totally against meds, he is medicated for his adhd. I am just against using an antipsychotic (in his case risperdol) before all other avenues have been explored. I have been saying he is bi-polar for almost 3 years now but the shrink we were seeing didn't want to label him as such yet. I am hoping once we are into this new one they will listen and perhaps then meds will be an option. The ped admits he is not the expert in this area so I do not want him pushing meds kwim. (THis is the same ped that suggested putting dd into ps so she could get suspended and learn to follow the pack-so you see why I will not jump right into his suggestion of that med). I think there are other safer options of meds to stabilize bi-polar than risperdol isn't there?

 

I do not feel you are ganging up on me. As someone who has BTDT you have experience I can glean from and for that I am greatful. Ds has always had issues, and I was warned that when puberty hit things could get more difficult, but that was back when he was 5 and the shrink at the time was pretty much writing ds off. Now that we are in teh midst of those hormone surges his aggression is through the roof. This rages have been becoming more frequent for the last 2 months and I am so stressed out with him. I have always noticed his behaviours were cyclical but no one wants to listen because of his age. It is very frustrating.

 

Could you pm me any links you have to good sites about bi-polar. ALso would you mind pming me about the kinds of meds usually used to treat bi-polar. They just increased his dose of ritalin and it seems to be making things worse not better.

 

I PMed you.

[woolybear]

About the raging, I noticed with my ds, that he has not been an easy kid with a bit of a temper. However, he did start having some rage episodes last year. It was set off by Lyme disease. I say this only to mean that perhaps there is something setting off these rages that hasn't not been discovered yet. And I agree, medication would be the last choice at least until you are clear as to what it's about. I add this here, because I could've assumed he was bipolar or many other things last year, but there was something else at the root.

 

Also, I vented too much about my frustrations and what I was often told directly or indirectly, was that homeschooling was the reason for our problems!!!

 

Woolybear

[swellmomma]

A huge thank you to thoseof you that pm'd me. You gave me some thing to think about and I phoned the ped today to discuss it. He agreed it is time to stop the ritalin since the increased dose is making things worse not better. I requested another med other than risperdal and though he knows nothing about that med, nor does he prescribe it to his patients he has agreed to Rx it for ds as long as I am in charge of all research to be done about it, and monitor ds carefully. While the ped has some hairbrained ideas like the one last week about dd in ps, this is the reason I stick with him. He trusts my judgement when it comes to the kids and meds etc and knows I won't settle for just a Rx written down, I am constantly researching more and calling him to tweak things. So I am picking that Rx up today.

 

The older 2 kids went on a fieldtrip with our school board today. It did not go particularily well, while ds did not rage he and dd would not listen and bickered constantly, so I have been told that for all other fieldtrips I have to stay or they are not welcome. That is fine with me, as I do stay for all the rest, it was just for this set(4 over the course of the year) that go all day that I do not stay. They just won't go to this series anymore, as it is $24 per kid, and if I am forced to stay I have to pay for my 2 littles as well (I can not afford an extra $48 just to supervise). So that problem is solved for the time being.

 

I called uncles at large(the mentorship program we are registered with), to let them know the move date and town. Though we will be 2 hours out of town our worker is going to get clearance to let us stay in the program because I am willing to drive back to the city for the kids to utilize teh services available before they get a mentor. They do not often grant this, but she does not see a problem with me getting the clearance.

 

I used today to just relax with my littles rather than the do the housework etc while the bigs were gone and I am feeling much better. I will not be phoning my mom at all anymore. I called my dad and left him a message to call me regarding the new house and asking if the final details have been hammered out so we can make the contract sooner rather than later. It will be hard to cut off the contact with my mom but it will be for the best. We will still see her around with family functions and such coming up(birthday season for my family and extended starts in 2 weeks, followed by the move, plus 2 weddings this summer), but I will not be sharing anything about me or my kids.

 

Ds and I had a heart to heart late last night trying to figure out what he is feeling during a rage, right before it, triggers etc. We talked about goals, both short term and long term. How the meds make him feel, the supplements, etc. We have these talks a few times a year so it is not a new thing, but some of the stuff he revealed was new so I hope it was a start to making things better for him and the family as a whole.

 

We will be trying this new med over the course of next week while dd is gone, as she and him push each other's buttons too much. Hopefully that will give me a better gauge if the meds are making a difference or not when he doesn't have someone picking at him constantly.