Interesting Article on Vaccine Research

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I found an interesting article on vaccine research and autism. I am not anti-vaccine, but I do question the current schedule of vaccines as recommended by the CDC. In retrospect, I would have asked for a slowed version of the schedule and perhaps waited for the hepatitis B vaccine until my ds was a teenager.I guess I still think the jury is not in on the safety of the current vaccine schedule or thimerosol which can still be found in some vaccines such as the flu vaccine unless it is the pediatric version. I also think there may still be environmental and some genetic factors as well.

 

Any thoughts on the article appreciated:)

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/central-figure-in-cdc-vac_b_494303.html

[mommaduck]

Chalk up a solid reason not to trust the CDC. I'd like to see the vaccination records of those at the CDC and their children...

[Carrie12345]

Very interesting!

 

I'll admit that part of me believes there could be a connection. This article doesn't exactly reinforce that belief, but it does reinforce my lack of trust in the CDC. :tongue_smilie:

[cin]

in hindsight, and with my second, I am getting the vaccines alot slower. If she's due for 4 shots at her 5yr check, I'll get one a month, or every 2 mos, until we get them all. Fortunately, our oldest survived the vaccine assaults.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Very interesting!

 

I'll admit that part of me believes there could be a connection. This article doesn't exactly reinforce that belief, but it does reinforce my lack of trust in the CDC. :tongue_smilie:

 

I still believe as a nurse that there are many good people at the CDC. I do question though the current vaccine schedule and would like to see more studies on the safety of the same. I am not sure how reliable the article that I posted is, but I think it may be fairly reliable. I would like to see more info on this researcher though. I have read of one too many tainted drug studies in the past several years:(

 

OTOH, I still believe in the value and importance of most vaccines. In fact, it is a concern to me when you here of parents skipping the whooping cough vaccine since the whooping cough can be devastating and really is very contagious. This poses a threat to others. It is a mistake to assume that others are immune since immunity conferred by vaccines only lasts so long:(

[rdolphingirl]

Chalk up a solid reason not to trust the CDC. I'd like to see the vaccination records of those at the CDC and their children...

:iagree:

[mommaduck]

I still believe as a nurse that there are many good people at the CDC. I do question though the current vaccine schedule and would like to see more studies on the safety of the same. I am not sure how reliable the article that I posted is, but I think it may be fairly reliable. I would like to see more info on this researcher though. I have read of one too many tainted drug studies in the past several years:(

 

OTOH, I still believe in the value and importance of most vaccines. In fact, it is a concern to me when you here of parents skipping the whooping cough vaccine since the whooping cough can be devastating and really is very contagious. This poses a threat to others. It is a mistake to assume that others are immune since immunity conferred by vaccines only lasts so long:(

I can't remember, but it was the DPT or the MMR that my 2nd child had a life threatening reaction to. There was an entire book written on the DPT alone with the Pertusis being the main concern.

 

I have to say though, that it is nice to see an RN at least question the scheduling of vaccinations.

[Perry]

Chalk up a solid reason not to trust the CDC. I'd like to see the vaccination records of those at the CDC and their children...

I've collaborated with CDC on several influenza studies and have worked on vaccine studies. All of my kids are fully vax'd (we did delay CP but got it eventually). Obviously I can't speak for everyone at CDC, but I don't know anyone in the vaccine research field who doesn't vaccinate their kids.

[mommaduck]

I've collaborated with CDC on several influenza studies and have worked on vaccine studies. All of my kids are fully vax'd (we did delay CP but got it eventually). Obviously I can't speak for everyone at CDC, but I don't know anyone in the vaccine research field who doesn't vaccinate their kids.

Yes, well, I've heard of plenty of medical professionals that delay, selectively, and even some that do not vaccinate their children. And yes, I do not believe that the CDC is 100% on that either.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I've collaborated with CDC on several influenza studies and have worked on vaccine studies. All of my kids are fully vax'd (we did delay CP but got it eventually). Obviously I can't speak for everyone at CDC, but I don't know anyone in the vaccine research field who doesn't vaccinate their kids.

 

Do you think the article is reliable? I know for myself that I would like to see more on this info from other sources.

[Mermaid Mama]

 

OTOH, I still believe in the value and importance of most vaccines. In fact, it is a concern to me when you here of parents skipping the whooping cough vaccine since the whooping cough can be devastating and really is very contagious. This poses a threat to others. It is a mistake to assume that others are immune since immunity conferred by vaccines only lasts so long:(

 

If the immunity only lasts a short while, then it's not really immunity.

It's always bugged me that the CDC and the doctors praise the vaccines for saving us and yet you can catch everything from the recently vaccinated if you yourself haven't had a booster in years.

 

OP: I believe in good old fashioned hand washing and keeping one's immunity functioning (not eating too much sugar, taking acidophillus, drinking clean water, getting fresh air and sunshine, etc....). We can all be exposed to the same stuff and only the susceptible will get sick. The key is keeping yourself as healthy as humanly possible.

 

The rule used to be, "First do no harm."

I fail to see that mercury and horse pus are doing no harm.

To say nothing of the African Green Monkey tissue we grow stuff on.....or whatever it is.....it's been a while since I researched it all, but it was appalling to me that we grow this stuff on primate tissue. Ewwwww....

 

The bypassing of our natural immunity by injecting the viral matter into our muscles is less worrisome than the fact that it's tainted with the most vile chemical matter known to humankind. I'm sorry....but it's disgusting to inject our children with stuff we wouldn't let them play with in the park....or if they found it, we'd be washing them immediately.

 

I respect everyone's right to choose for themselves.

But I do think that most people have never read the insert of a vaccine or they would think twice.

 

I don't know how reputable this site is - but it's worth investigating if you do vaccinate:

http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

[Perry]

 

Yes, well, I've heard of plenty of medical professionals that delay, selectively, and even some that do not vaccinate their children. And yes, I do not believe that the CDC is 100% on that either.

That's true. A small minority of doctors don't vaccinate fully. I'm sure we have different conclusions about the reasons for that.

[Mergath]

The rule used to be, "First do no harm."

I fail to see that mercury and horse pus are doing no harm.

To say nothing of the African Green Monkey tissue we grow stuff on.....or whatever it is.....it's been a while since I researched it all, but it was appalling to me that we grow this stuff on primate tissue. Ewwwww....

 

The bypassing of our natural immunity by injecting the viral matter into our muscles is less worrisome than the fact that it's tainted with the most vile chemical matter known to humankind. I'm sorry....but it's disgusting to inject our children with stuff we wouldn't let them play with in the park....or if they found it, we'd be washing them immediately.

 

We come into contact with toxins all the time. A baby will get more aluminum from breastmilk during the first year than from vaccines, for example. Most kids get far more mercury from eating tuna fish- and this is the harmful kind of mercury- than from vaccines. We simply have to decide if it is worth the additional exposure. And, in the case of vaccines, I think it is definitely worth it.

[Corraleno]

Chalk up a solid reason not to trust the CDC...

Another reason not to trust them is that half the members of the CDC committee on vaccine recommendations have close financial ties to the very companies that manufacture the vaccines. They and their companies make millions when their "objective, scientific opinion" <cough> suggests that the new vaccines they developed should be added to the standard US vaccination schedule.

 

Jackie

[Perry]

yet you can catch everything from the recently vaccinated if you yourself haven't had a booster in years.

This isn't true. There are several live vaccines that result in viral shedding, but the only one that really carries a risk of transmission is oral polio vaccine, which is no longer used in the US.

 

 

The rule used to be, "First do no harm."

I fail to see that mercury and horse pus are doing no harm.

There is no evidence that thimerosal causes harm. And horse pus?:confused: Not used in vaccines.

 

To say nothing of the African Green Monkey tissue we grow stuff on.....or whatever it is.....it's been a while since I researched it all, but it was appalling to me that we grow this stuff on primate tissue. Ewwwww....Some virus vaccines (not all) are grown in Vero cells, which is a cell line derived from a kidney of a single monkey. That cell line has been propagated for many, many years. Why is that a problem? You've got to grow it in something.

 

The bypassing of our natural immunity by injecting the viral matter into our muscles is less worrisome than the fact that it's tainted with the most vile chemical matter known to humankind. What are you talking about?

 

I'm sorry....but it's disgusting to inject our children with stuff we wouldn't let them play with in the park....or if they found it, we'd be washing them immediately.

 

I respect everyone's right to choose for themselves.

But I do think that most people have never read the insert of a vaccine or they would think twice. I've read it. Doesn't bother me. Kids die from vaccine preventable diseases. THAT bothers me.

 

I don't know how reputable this site is - but it's worth investigating if you do vaccinate:

http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

.

[abbeyej]

That's true. A small minority of doctors don't vaccinate fully. I'm sure we have different conclusions about the reasons for that.

 

I'd be curious to read your conclusions. ;)

[Mermaid Mama]

We come into contact with toxins all the time. A baby will get more aluminum from breastmilk during the first year than from vaccines, for example. Most kids get far more mercury from eating tuna fish- and this is the harmful kind of mercury- than from vaccines. We simply have to decide if it is worth the additional exposure. And, in the case of vaccines, I think it is definitely worth it.

 

But will a baby get horse pus or chicken embryo from my milk as well?

And I would love to know where you got the aluminum information because I have never heard of this. Not to argue - I just like to know all sides.

 

Either way - just because we are routinely exposed to toxic chemicals on a daily basis I am not going to INCREASE that exposure. I know that there is chlorine in my water and I bathe in it. However, the water I drink does not have any. Even though I know there is more exposure in the fumes of my shower, I refuse to drink the water. And eventually I will buy a filter for the shower and tub.....

 

But anyway - please link me to your research regarding breast milk.

Thanks.

[abbeyej]

I'm frustrated that the article seems to confuse one person's criminal actions with his scientific research. Yes, there are some arguments about why his study was flawed, but it's all mixed up with whether or not he embezzled money. They just aren't the same. One doesn't *necessarily* mean we should discount the other...

 

That said, we have delayed vaccinations, and I think it was the right choice for my kids and their health histories. We're only just beginning to work on "catching up", and I feel much more at peace with doing those vaccinations now than I did when they were so very young.

[Mermaid Mama]

.

 

Children die from vaccines as well.

And I would beg to differ on the fact that kids don't catch diseases from the vaccinated. Or maybe it was just a fluke that a friend who vaccinated a child for whooping cough ended up having a household sick from it.

 

Why don't we grow the virus on human cadaver tissue?

[Mergath]

But will a baby get horse pus or chicken embryo from my milk as well?

And I would love to know where you got the aluminum information because I have never heard of this. Not to argue - I just like to know all sides.

 

Either way - just because we are routinely exposed to toxic chemicals on a daily basis I am not going to INCREASE that exposure. I know that there is chlorine in my water and I bathe in it. However, the water I drink does not have any. Even though I know there is more exposure in the fumes of my shower, I refuse to drink the water. And eventually I will buy a filter for the shower and tub.....

 

But anyway - please link me to your research regarding breast milk.

Thanks.

 

"A. During the first 6 months of life, infants could receive about 4 milligrams of aluminum from vaccines. That’s not very much: a milligram is one-thousandth of a gram and a gram is the weight of one-fifth of a teaspoon of water. During the same period, babies will also receive about 10 milligrams of aluminum in breast milk, about 40 milligrams in infant formula, or about 120 milligrams in soy-based formula."

 

http://www.chop.edu/export/download/pdfs/articles/vaccine-education-center/aluminum.pdf

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

Another reason not to trust them is that half the members of the CDC committee on vaccine recommendations have close financial ties to the very companies that manufacture the vaccines. They and their companies make millions when their "objective, scientific opinion" <cough> suggests that the new vaccines they developed should be added to the standard US vaccination schedule.

 

Jackie

 

:iagree:

I'm not against vax but the more homework I do on the subject, the more disgusted I am by the corruption of many of the pro-vax cheerleaders.

 

What really infuriates me is that this vax advisory committee at the CDC pressured Merck into ceasing production of the individual measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines. :cursing:

 

What gives the government the right to throw its weight around and interfere with a private company's decision to sell FDA-approved vaccines? It should be the parents' decision (after consultation with their pediatrician) whether to use the combo MMR or give the 3 individual shots.

[Perry]

Children die from vaccines as well.

And I would beg to differ on the fact that kids don't catch diseases from the vaccinated. Or maybe it was just a fluke that a friend who vaccinated a child for whooping cough ended up having a household sick from it.

 

Why don't we grow the virus on human cadaver tissue?

Vaccine deaths are exceedingly rare. Vastly more kids die from the disease than the vaccine.

 

You can't catch whooping cough from the vaccine. It's an inactivated (killed) vaccine.

 

Why would you want to grow it on human cadaver tissue? We have a perfectly good cell line in Vero cells, which have been used for almost 50 years. It works. Why change it?

[mommaduck]

Children die from vaccines as well.

And I would beg to differ on the fact that kids don't catch diseases from the vaccinated. Or maybe it was just a fluke that a friend who vaccinated a child for whooping cough ended up having a household sick from it.

 

Why don't we grow the virus on human cadaver tissue?

 

As evidenced, my children got chicken pox from their cousins who were vaccinated and came down with cp from the vax. Their doctor stated that the vaccine does not prevent them from getting cp and in fact could cause them to come down with it, but rather just would "lessen" the severeness and time sick. HA! They got full blown sick from the vax and my child, who caught it from them naturally, dealt with a less severe case.

[Perry]

But will a baby get horse pus or chicken embryo from my milk as well?

There isn't any horse pus in vaccines.

 

Your baby will get a chicken embryo when you feed him an egg.

[mommaduck]

Vaccine deaths are exceedingly rare. Vastly more kids die from the disease than the vaccine.

 

So it's okay that my child was one of those nearly sacrificed? It's russian roulette, and sorry, but my kids are no longer playing the game.

[Perry]

As evidenced, my children got chicken pox from their cousins who were vaccinated and came down with cp from the vax.

You're right that chicken pox vaccine virus can be transmitted to others- I forgot to include that one. There are no reported cases of severe illness related to secondary transmission. For the other live virus vaccines-measles, mumps, rubella and flumist, illness from secondary transmission is either rare or nonexistent.

[Perry]

.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Perry

[mommaduck]

.

 

Yeah, didn't think so.:glare:

[Spy Car]

 

Your baby will get a chicken embryo when you feed him an egg.

 

Gag me with a spoon :D

 

Bill

[QueenCat]

I've evaluated my childrens shot records. Not an easy process but a curious pediatrician helped. Older son got lots of thimersol and does NOT have autism. Younger son had his shots without thimersol and has autism.

[Perry]

Do you think the article is reliable? I know for myself that I would like to see more on this info from other sources.

It's awfully one sided.

 

He might be a thief, but that doesn't invalidate the study. He's not even first author; he's fourth out of seven, which means he didn't contribute much to the study, and wouldn't be in a position to manipulate the data.

 

Most researchers are honest, but there are bound to be some crooks. I don't know if Thorsen is a crook or not. But even if he is (possible), and even if the study turns out to be flawed (unlikely) there are numerous other studies that find no association between autism and vaccines. There are NO studies that show an association other than Wakefield's, which has been retracted.

[asta]

:iagree:

I'm not against vax but the more homework I do on the subject, the more disgusted I am by the corruption of many of the pro-vax cheerleaders.

 

What really infuriates me is that this vax advisory committee at the CDC pressured Merck into ceasing production of the individual measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines. :cursing:

 

What gives the government the right to throw its weight around and interfere with a private company's decision to sell FDA-approved vaccines? It should be the parents' decision (after consultation with their pediatrician) whether to use the combo MMR or give the 3 individual shots.

 

I addressed this on another thread a few months back. Merck has not discontinued these vaccines.

 

Here is a list of Merck's current vaccines.

 

Here is the FDA approval information:

 

Proper Name: Measles Virus Vaccine, Live

Tradename: Attenuvax

Manufacturer: Merck & Co, Inc, License #0002

Indication:

For vaccination against measles in persons 12 months of age or older.

 

[...]

 

Proper Name: Rubella Virus Vaccine Live

Tradename: MERUVAX II

Manufacturer: Merck & Co, Inc, License #0002

Indication:

For vaccination against rubella in persons 12 months of age or older.

 

And Mumpsvax is listed on this other FDA page "Complete List of Vaccines Licensed for Immunization and Distribution in the US" (which also lists the vax for measles and rubella).

 

The FDA search engine is a wonderful thing, and saves on much misinformation.

 

 

asta

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I've evaluated my childrens shot records. Not an easy process but a curious pediatrician helped. Older son got lots of thimersol and does NOT have autism. Younger son had his shots without thimersol and has autism.

 

Is your younger son 17 as listed in your signature since if I am not mistaken thimerosol was still in use. I am also curious if you received the flu vaccine while pregnant which does contain thimerosol? I am still distrustful of thimerosol and I am happy that it has been removed from most vaccines:)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

It's awfully one sided.

 

He might be a thief, but that doesn't invalidate the study. He's not even first author; he's fourth out of seven, which means he didn't contribute much to the study, and wouldn't be in a position to manipulate the data.

 

Most researchers are honest, but there are bound to be some crooks. I don't know if Thorsen is a crook or not. But even if he is (possible), and even if the study turns out to be flawed (unlikely) there are numerous other studies that find no association between autism and vaccines. There are NO studies that show an association other than Wakefield's, which has been retracted.

 

I agree that we need more info on this than just this one article. I guess what I would like to see more research on the safety of the current vaccine schedule since I have read that it has never been proven to be safe. I tend to believe that a slowed down version of the vaccine schedule would be safer. IMHO a classic example of a vaccine that can wait is the hepatitis B vaccine unless there is a true indication to give it at 2 weeks of age. I cannot help but believe that my ds's severe food allergies are due to the current vaccine schedule and his allergist did not disagree with me:( I truly am not anti-vaccine. I believe that vaccines have saved millions of people from devastating diseases. I just want them to carefully evaluate the schedule and slow it down. I also think the new vaccines should be carefully evaluated. It does not help matters to read of tainted drug research in the past several years where the drug companies had an influence on the outcomes:( Of course, I still believe that most researchers are honest, but the few bad apples I read about really shook me up.

Edited March 12, 2010 by priscilla

[Lovedtodeath]

I cannot help but believe that my ds's severe food allergies are due to the current vaccine schedule

My baby stopped breathing. They decided it was due to yeast allergy. Then with the next vaccine, which did not contain yeast, it happened again. If I was a different type of mother he would be dead. They wouldn't know it was due to vaccines... I am sure that the diagnosis would have been SIDS. :glare:

 

Your baby will get a chicken embryo when you feed him an egg.

My baby with food allergies will not get any eggs until he is 1 or 2 years old, as recommended.

 

The rule used to be, "First do no harm."

 

:iagree:But they do follow this rule when someone needs something, like adrenal supplements, thyroid supplements, Vit. B-12 shots. Those are extremely hard to get because of an infantile risk. Ugh. I really dislike the whole medical system.

[Perry]

My baby with food allergies will not get any eggs until he is 1 or 2 years old, as recommended.

My babies got them at 7 or 8 months, because I didn't restrict or delay foods, as recommended.

 

Effects of Early Nutritional Interventions on the Development of Atopic Disease in Infants and Children: The Role of Maternal Dietary Restriction, Breastfeeding, Timing of Introduction of Complementary Foods, and Hydrolyzed Formulas

Current evidence does not support a major role for maternal dietary restrictions during pregnancy or lactation. There is evidence that breastfeeding for at least 4 months, compared with feeding formula made with intact cow milk protein, prevents or delays the occurrence of atopic dermatitis, cow milk allergy, and wheezing in early childhood. In studies of infants at high risk of atopy and who are not exclusively breastfed for 4 to 6 months, there is modest evidence that the onset of atopic disease may be delayed or prevented by the use of hydrolyzed formulas compared with formula made with intact cow milk protein, particularly for atopic dermatitis. Comparative studies of the various hydrolyzed formulas also indicate that not all formulas have the same protective benefit. There is also little evidence that delaying the timing of the introduction of complementary foods beyond 4 to 6 months of age prevents the occurrence of atopic disease. At present, there are insufficient data to document a protective effect of any dietary intervention beyond 4 to 6 months of age for the development of atopic disease.

I thought it was obvious that the PP was concerned about the presence of "chicken embryos", not the timing of vaccines. Of course, there aren't any chicken embryos in the influenza vaccine, just some residual egg proteins left over from incubation.

[QueenCat]

Is your younger son 17 as listed in your signature since if I am not mistaken thimerosol was still in use. I am also curious if you received the flu vaccine while pregnant which does contain thimerosol? I am still distrustful of thimerosol and I am happy that it has been removed from most vaccines:)

 

Many vaccines were available at the time with or without thimerosol. Our ped. was very aggressive in ordering those without even though they were more expensive. At the time, she had other reasons since people weren't trying to link it to autism at the time. I'm not saying it's not, but it's not in my case, and so far, not in major legitimate scientific studies.

[mommaduck]

My baby stopped breathing. They decided it was due to yeast allergy. Then with the next vaccine, which did not contain yeast, it happened again. If I was a different type of mother he would be dead. They wouldn't know it was due to vaccines... I am sure that the diagnosis would have been SIDS. :glare:

 

 

 

Same here. I spent months of sleepless nights right by my baby's side to keep her breathing. I kept praying that I wouldn't sleep for so long that I woke up to a dead baby.

[Mermaid Mama]

Vaccine deaths are exceedingly rare.

 

The deaths are rare or the reporting is rare?

And if it's MY kid - rare just ain't cuttin' it for me!!!!

From what I have heard, the coroner writes, "SIDS" even if the parents are saying that the child was just vaccinated!!!!

 

If they're so safe - why are they taxed and the money goes to VAERS and if a kid is sick for life the parents can collect some money to help with that?

 

Having taken a few basic math courses in college, I am apt to believe that we can skew the data any way we see fit.....and since I don't trust my children's lives and well being to those who stand to make a profit hand over fist, I choose to avoid vaccines and most of the medical community for that matter. As an RN, I see far too much to have blind faith in the pharmaceutical industry.

[Mermaid Mama]

Vaccine deaths are exceedingly rare. Vastly more kids die from the disease than the vaccine.

 

You can't catch whooping cough from the vaccine. It's an inactivated (killed) vaccine.

 

Why would you want to grow it on human cadaver tissue? We have a perfectly good cell line in Vero cells, which have been used for almost 50 years. It works. Why change it?

 

One more thing (and Perry - I love ya for the H1N1 info way back - so don't think I'm pickin' on ya!) but how do we know that the viruses are killed? And what happens when the equipment malfunctions or we have have human error? There's just a lot of hookey science behind it all, and I trust that my body was made to take what it can take naturally - and when it's done, I'll check out!

 

I once read that the method of injection into muscle was actually bypassing the immune response that happens when we get exposed naturally and that is why we don't gain life long immunity when we are vaccinated.

[Lovedtodeath]

My babies got them at 7 or 8 months, because I didn't restrict or delay foods, as recommended.

Really? For a child without a family history of allergies perhaps.

 

What about the advice for infants to be fed breastmilk exclusively for 6 months? Are vaccinations that contain non-breastmilk ingredients, and perhaps eggs, done before then? (of course I know the answer to that, my son fought for his life each time, so I remember the schedule.)