Spin off topic: Why the increase (my perception) of picky eaters?

[amy g.]

I agree with Kate. As a result of my how picky I was growing up, I have adopted the stance, "we don't make anyone eat food that they don't like."

 

I do have a daughter with Asperger's, so I know how frustrating that can be. The only control I have put on my kids is what we buy. They can eat or not eat anything that is in the house, because we do not buy anything I don't want them to eat.

 

For me, this has allowed me to not have power struggles with them, but also not have them consume a diet of exclusively processed junk food.

[Nestof3]

I'm not saying *you* did this, but I think some people have in this thread.

 

Yes, I am the one that did. I am now aware that there are children with extremely sensitive gag reflexes, that there are children who have sensory issues that make it impossible for them to eat certain foods, that autistic chidren can have sensititivty issues as well,

 

but for everyone I know who is a picky eater, I am 100% certain this is not the case. For these people it's all about what tastes the best, and that generally excludes vegetables. These people are unhealthy and apathetic about their health.

 

What I have noticed in this thread is many people who think that MOST of the pickiness is due to child-centered parenting and the battle to get children to enjoy healthy non-sweet foods when there are so many unhealthy choices will admit that there are some cases of severe food issues for certain health reasons (thank you for enlightening us)

 

BUT

 

I have only heard from perhaps one person who can say "Yes, my child cannot help his pickiness because of a compulsive disorder, autism, etc" but also post that there are many children who are just simply spoiled.

 

Why is that?

[Rhonda in TX]

He has sensory issues and one of the things it affects is food. A doctor once told me that some of these kids will need to be exposed to a food 50 times before they will like it.

 

We always insist DS try what we make. Sometimes he will like it once he starts eating it. If a food makes him gag, I do not force the issue. We just try again another day.

 

I was a very picky eater as a child. I thought I hated all vegetables. Then I discovered steamed veggies. Yum!! For me, it's all about the texture. Some foods literally make me gag.

[Jenny in Florida]

Actually, neither of my kids will eat the black beans. My daughter loves anything with chickpeas (hummus, various Indian-inspired foods, falafel), but won't touch most other beans with a 10-foot pole. And my son never met a legume he likes beyond the soy beans forming the basis of his soy milk.

 

But, yes, they are picky. Each of them has a relatively small number of things they will eat, and in combination with the ethical vegan stance, it makes it tough to feed them away from home.

 

They are getting better, though. And we learned a long time ago to simply de-emphasize food as a factor in social gatherings.

 

And, as I said, they are getting better as they get older.

[Tammyla]

Is there really an increase? My younger sister was so picky that she was malnourished enough to have her hair fall out with every brushing. The doc had to prescribe special vitamins until she expanded her repetiore. And my mother was no pushover. I can remember going to bed hungry on many a night because I didn't like the dinner she made (and dear old mom made some pretty disgusting stuff - liver and onions used to make me gag.) And I wasn't the picky one. I actually ate the overcooked mushy veggies she served.

 

I remember many kids at school who were very picky.

 

 

Oh, shudder. Liver & onions. :iagree: I'd rather not eat for a week. I think kids have always been picky or sensitive. People just talk it about it now.

[Jenny in Florida]

What's funny to me is that for the most part (I know there are a few rare examples) almost every child likes soda, ice cream, sugar cereal, chicken nuggets, cake, cookies, etc.

 

Again -- I know someone out there does not like the above mentioned, but I know FAR more people who have all of these "issues" with vegetables or lentils or oatmeal.

 

You're right, I cannot vouch for food allergies, autistic children and so forth.

 

BUT for the most part, I guarantee you that for MOST children, give them nothing to eat for two days and see if they decide to eat that "issue" food.

 

Well, you're right: Not only does my daughter not like most of the foods you mentioned (specifically, she will go thirsty rather than drink soda of any kind, never liked most cereals, and thinks most cookies and cakes and all frostings are "too sweet"), but most of those typical "kid foods" aren't even available in our house.

 

I made my own baby food from scratch for both kids. When my daughter was teeny, her favorite food was lima beans.

 

We're vegans and keep very little refined sugar in our home.

 

One of the few processed foods my kids ate a lot of when they were younger was canned lentil soup, and they have both eaten oatmeal (the real kind that you cook in a pot) an average of three days a week since they started eating solid foods.

 

Nonetheless, they are picky.

 

And, although I would never consider starving a child into submission for two days, I can tell you that they are also both incredibly strong-willed. And if I chose to make eating a specific food a battle, I might eventually win, but the damage done to our relationship--not to mention the health of the child--would be unacceptable to me.

 

Again, our rule is that we never force or require any child to eat or drink something he or she truly cannot stomach. I do, however, require them to eat a reasonably balanced variety chosen from among the range of healthy things I do keep on hand that they like.

[Just Me]

I haven't read every post, but do feel the need to chime in. I don't know if there are more picky eaters, as I was one as a child, and I knew others. I think maybe now kids are even "more" picky though.

 

My two oldest kids were once staying with some friends. They were 2 and 3 years old. The husband in the family cooked chicken and rice. All the kids sat down and cleaned their plates, except for my oldest son. He just sat quietly at the table, after trying the food. The other dad said, "PJ, you can't get up until you have eaten all of that food." Oldest ds said, "ok", and proceeded to sit there for 2 hours. He didn't get upset, didn't cry, didn't ask to get down, and didn't eat!! Finally, the dad gave up and let him down to play. My dd then proceeded to clean his plate for him! :001_smile: That dad commented on how resolute our ds was. I think that it is hard to understand the child's feelings if you haven't had a picky eater yourself.

 

When I was a kid, I only liked cheese pizza. My oldest ds only likes cheese pizza with no sauce. And, unlike others, he doesn't choose the "kid friendly, bad for you foods"

 

For example, he doesn't like soda, red meat, or most chicken nuggets. The only vegetable he can eat is cooked carrots. If I fix a supper he doesn't like, he has to make his own. He almost always chooses yogurt, fruit, and cheese, or a peanut butter sandwich. Sometimes he has a bowl of Raisin Bran with milk.

 

So, all said, he may be "picky", but he probably eats better than I do in a day! :001_huh: Oh, and my other two kids will eat things that I would never touch!!

[Just Me]

Oh, yeah, and FWIW - It drive my in-laws NUTS that he is a picky eater. My fil used to make the rudest comments about it, and my mil still praises our younger son for "how well he eats" in front of oldest ds! UGH!! :sneaky2:

[Pamela H in Texas]

coming in late. I think there are a number of reasons but I really think the biggest is poor parenting which seems to be at epidemic levels.

[StacyWithFourRugrats]

just wish I could really get one of those! :lol:

 

Yes, perhaps I am being a bit overly sensitive. Perhaps I am taking things to personally. And yes, people are entitled to their opinions. But let's just substitute another topic in place of "picky eaters" to see why I expected a little less judgement (and yes, some are being judgemental) from this board.

 

Put homeschooled children in place of picky eaters.

 

Someone comes onto this board stating they are really tired of hearing people say "You homeschool? But what about your children being socialized?? MOST homeschooled children I know are rude and seem to be unable to interact with other kids."

 

We have all heard these types of comments and can imagine a lot of different variations, but the person you are speaking to just can not get past the idea that your children are not like MOST of the homeschoolers (and yes, I am emphasizing "most" in all caps because when something online is in all caps it is shouting or putting an emphasis on a certain word to make it stand out)

 

If someone came to this board (and they have in the past I am sure) saying they were tired of hearing comments such as these, we would all then tell them that they were not being sensitive and that the people they speak to are just being judgemental and over-generalizing. We have all experienced it so we can understand.

 

Sooooo, my point (I think I have some somewhere, it is early and well, coffee and all that jazz), I was a bit disappointed that the same people who despise people who over-generalize and judge homeschooling families turn around and do the same to the group of families in the world with "picky eaters", for whatever reason.

 

Just because you believe all the families you know with picky eaters are this way because their parents may over-indulge their children or allow bad food habits, does not mean that MOST picky eaters are this way for the same reason. Statistically speaking, it is not a good sampling of the population for broad statements to be made.

 

So I guess what I am saying, and what "gets my goat" (where DID that phrase come from anyways?) is that I just wish the "dislike" of generalization and judgemental attitude in reference to homeschooling would carry over to other topics. Sure, you have the right to your opinion. Heck, the world would be pretty darn boring if we all thought the same. But please do not continue to tell me that MOST children are one way because this is what YOU have seen. That is not an opinion. This is the appearance of statistics wrapped around your opinion.

 

Now I need to go mow the dang yard. Already spring time. I really wish we would buy a riding lawn mower. How my world would be sooooooooooo much easier. Where is the lawn mower fairy when ya need one :lol:

[rafiki]

.

[Nestof3]

Stacy,

 

Will you forgive me for hurting your feelings? I understand what you are saying in your last post. I just wanted to clear up that I agree there are children and adults with very unique problems that go against the norm in every way. I am more aware of that now.

 

I do know in my cases that the pickiness is just a matter of holding out for something better, preference and even racism (yes, my father-in-law will not eat ethnic food b/c for the most part, he is racist). I think the thread started with "why the rise?" And I do think there is a rise. I am sure there have always been people with gag reflex issues and such, but there has been a rise with all sorts of things. Consider children who insist their parents buy a certain brand of shoes or clothes.

 

My brother and I were rather indulged people growing up. My brother refused to wear anything that wasn't namebrand! He refused to put his clean clothes away. He refused to clean his room. He was allowed to control everything, and I see my parents doing this all over again to my boys. This one will only drink from the red cup, the other has to have the green cup. This one will only have raspberry jelly, this one strawberry. Now, I do often make their sandwiches with their favorite jelly. I let them choose their breakfast cereal (from the healthy choices I buy), and I often ask them if they want milk of juice. I'm not a food control freak or anything.

 

A friend of ours once told the story of his daughter who was picky. The grandfather was getting a slice of cheese for her. A corner broke off and the father (the one telling the story) said, "You'll have to give her another slice." The grandfather asked why. The father said, "She won't eat a food if it is broken." Thankfully, the grandfather said "rubish" and gave it to her anyway. From then on, her parents realized they allowed the children to be so picky by indulging them.

[Nestof3]

Someone comes onto this board stating they are really tired of hearing people say "You homeschool? But what about your children being socialized?? MOST homeschooled children I know are rude and seem to be unable to interact with other kids."

 

 

I take these comments with a grain of salt because if you confront these people (as I have) you find out many of them don't know any homeschooled children or they only know one or two. Not exactly a decent sampling in my opinion.

 

Most of these comments, I have also found, come from people whose children are equally rude.

[Doran]

What if there were limited or no choices? Did our ancestors sit at the table and refuse to eat what was there before them? If we knew that whatever food was offered was the ONLY food we'd get to eat that day, or the next day, or the one after that, would we turn it down? Sure, we'd be tired of it. But, really...???

 

I know this comes off as flying in the face of all those who deal with sensory issues, gag reflex problems, allergies, and things of that nature. But, I earnestly wonder how we managed as a people when we had fewer (no) options. Maybe some of the kids back then who "failed to thrive" had sensory issues which caused them to eat poorly, and we just didn't understand that at the time.

 

I'm not denying the reality of certain issues and disorders. But, I have NO DOUBT IN MY MIND that a great deal of the pickiness we see today is product of our food culture.

 

Cookie Monster said it first! I totally agree. Has anyone ever done a controlled study on this topic? I'd really love to see the results of that.

 

Doran

 

 

 

is availability of food.

 

You can get any food you crave or desire, whether white and bland, crunchy and bland, sour, soft, hard, spicy, and all of it cooked just to your liking, very easily. If you don't like what you have, you can get what you do like.

 

That is the number one reason, in my view. A parent whose kid prefers hard, bland food can find many easy to fix meals that fit the bill. Pick a different preference, and the outcome is the same.

 

All other valid reasons would be naught if there were fewer affordable alternative choices in the supermarkets. Really.

 

The second reason is our distance from food as consumers. In a very short amount of time (just the past few decades) consumers have been drastically removed from their source of food in complete ways. This results in kids growing up not realizing where their steak and chicken really come from, or what entails raising their plate of vegetables. Not only do they never grow it, they've never even seen it grown. And you can forget about canning. They don't even know what that is. And their moms prepare food with them out of the room, not helping. And in a restaurant the food is cooked somewhere out of sight.

 

The result is kids who don't have a relationship with their food. They don't really know what it is, where it came from, or why it looks and tastes the way it does.

[Cindyg]

Why would a mom spend all day trying to get a kid to eat a hotdog? Well, I can't say why Stacy did, but I can sympathize with this. Mom knows hotdogs taste good. Mom knows all kids love hotdogs. Mom reasons that if her kid would just TRY a hotdog, he, too, would find it good. Then he would have another food in is very limited food repertoire. (It is very hard to feed these children!) Plus, if he could TRY the hotdog and, therefore, LIKE the hotdog, he would have a good food experience with would make him more open to trying another food, he would learn to trust mom with food choices, and he would be one food closer to eating like a normal kid.

 

I know someone above said that all kids like junkfood. No kid refuses junkfood. (And that's evidence that picky eating equates with being spoiled.) Not true. We've had to do this with pudding, frosting, Jello, canned fruit, cotton candy, pizza, yes hotdogs! Dozens and dozens of foods. You might think it would be a blessing if your child didn't like junkfood. It's not. It's a blessing if your child choses healthy food. But it's not a blessing when your child CAN'T eat food that children all over America are served and enjoy. It's very embarrasing for a 10YO to, for instance, go to a pizza party, be very hungry, but not be able to tolerate anything served. It can reduce a 10YO to tears, which is further embarrassing.

 

It's oral sensitivity. It's a genuine condition. These kids need help and their parents deserve MEDALS, not criticism.

[Jenny in Atl]

What if there were limited or no choices? Did our ancestors sit at the table and refuse to eat what was there before them? If we knew that whatever food was offered was the ONLY food we'd get to eat that day, or the next day, or the one after that, would we turn it down? Sure, we'd be tired of it. But, really...???

 

I know this comes off as flying in the face of all those who deal with sensory issues, gag reflex problems, allergies, and things of that nature. But, I earnestly wonder how we managed as a people when we had fewer (no) options. Maybe some of the kids back then who "failed to thrive" had sensory issues which caused them to eat poorly, and we just didn't understand that at the time.

 

I'm not denying the reality of certain issues and disorders. But, I have NO DOUBT IN MY MIND that a great deal of the pickiness we see today is product of our food culture.

 

Cookie Monster said it first! I totally agree. Has anyone ever done a controlled study on this topic? I'd really love to see the results of that.

 

Doran

 

I too wonder if these problems have increased due to our abundance of choice. Our food has also changed so much, genetic manipulation, importing foods which were not "native" to a certain area's diet, the chemicals in our soil, etc

 

Maybe a limited diet of foods our ancestors eat over generations, was really the best for us, and not the ability to eat everything and anything we want?

[Jackie in AR]

is availability of food.

 

You can get any food you crave or desire, whether white and bland, crunchy and bland, sour, soft, hard, spicy, and all of it cooked just to your liking, very easily. If you don't like what you have, you can get what you do like.

 

That is the number one reason, in my view. A parent whose kid prefers hard, bland food can find many easy to fix meals that fit the bill. Pick a different preference, and the outcome is the same.

 

All other valid reasons would be naught if there were fewer affordable alternative choices in the supermarkets. Really.

 

The second reason is our distance from food as consumers. In a very short amount of time (just the past few decades) consumers have been drastically removed from their source of food in complete ways. This results in kids growing up not realizing where their steak and chicken really come from, or what entails raising their plate of vegetables. Not only do they never grow it, they've never even seen it grown. And you can forget about canning. They don't even know what that is. And their moms prepare food with them out of the room, not helping. And in a restaurant the food is cooked somewhere out of sight.

 

The result is kids who don't have a relationship with their food. They don't really know what it is, where it came from, or why it looks and tastes the way it does.

 

Great points. Aren't we all picky about something?

 

Take homeschooling curriculum. All of us are pickier than homeschoolers from 10 or 15 years ago simply because of the wealth of materials available. And we don't have to drag ourselves to a convention or a book store to purchase it; we can sit in our pj's, view samples, and purchase in the comfort of our own homes.

 

And there isn't always something wrong with being picky.

[Rebecca in VA]

One of my friends has a child with Down Syndrome, and we've discussed this. Her son is the pickiest eater ever. He insists on pizza day in, day out. My friend (who does not want to indulge picky behavior) has tried to starve him out, but it never works. This boy would rather starve to death than eat something he doesn't want.

 

The doctor has told my friend that back in the old days, many DS children *did* starve themselves to death, or die of malnutrition. And yes, they *were* considered failure-to-thrive children.

 

Perhaps that's nature's way of dealing with finickiness? Sort of a survival of the fittest scenario? And maybe nowadays, since we can and do indulge finicky appetites with all sorts of foods, these children are staying alive.

[Doran]

One of my friends has a child with Down Syndrome, and we've discussed this. Her son is the pickiest eater ever. He insists on pizza day in, day out. My friend (who does not want to indulge picky behavior) has tried to starve him out, but it never works. This boy would rather starve to death than eat something he doesn't want.

 

The doctor has told my friend that back in the old days, many DS children *did* starve themselves to death, or die of malnutrition. And yes, they *were* considered failure-to-thrive children.

 

Perhaps that's nature's way of dealing with finickiness? Sort of a survival of the fittest scenario? And maybe nowadays, since we can and do indulge finicky appetites with all sorts of foods, these children are staying alive.

 

 

While I don't deny that what the doctor told your friend is accurate, I'd also be curious to know where he has read or learned about this. It fascinates me, really. I also feel great sympathy for the parents of these children. It has to be so hard for everyone, particulary because of just what we've seen here in this thread...the fact that it's hard for the bystander to know when picky is a choice and when it is hard wired, kwim?

 

I'm also thinking that "back in the day", it wouldn't have been pizza the DS child would want every day. So, then...what?...salt cured beef? Or, potatoes? Turnips? I wonder.

 

We could take that "survival of the fittest" argument into many different discussions - ones that would probably get even more heated than something like a picky eaters thread. But, basically, yes -- I think there was a time when people with difficulties like eating "disorders" (for lack of a better term in my head just now) would not have lived long, and their treatment would have been far worse than what happens now.

 

Doran

[Janet in WA]

What I have noticed in this thread is many people who think that MOST of the pickiness is due to child-centered parenting and the battle to get children to enjoy healthy non-sweet foods when there are so many unhealthy choices will admit that there are some cases of severe food issues for certain health reasons (thank you for enlightening us)

 

BUT

 

I have only heard from perhaps one person who can say "Yes, my child cannot help his pickiness because of a compulsive disorder, autism, etc" but also post that there are many children who are just simply spoiled.

 

Why is that?

Well, maybe we haven't answered it in so many words, but we have stated it over and over, both here and in the "other" thread from which this one spun off. What we've been saying is that because of our experiences with our "picky" children, we've become more tolerant and less judgmental. We don't tend to label others' children as "spoiled" or say they are our "pet peeves". That's why you haven't heard us say that -- we don't say that, and wish others didn't either.

[Amy in NH]

I was a picky eater, but it was a sensory issue for me (of course there wasn't any understanding of this back in the '70s). I wouldn't eat certain textures, and didn't like my food touching (combination of textures). I also couldn't stand itchy fabrics or tags in my clothes, and had dermatological allergies.

 

I think the perception of more picky eaters comes from parents catering to their picky kids, and from wives catering to their picky husbands.

[Joanne]

Aren't we all picky about something?

 

There is a difference between food preferences and pickyness. And there are degrees of picky.

[lovemyboys]

The last thing, related to the first? The development of "kid food". I truly believe that "kid food" deadens the palate, fuels unhealthy craving and sets the more prone up for a limited palate. Culprits: mac-n-chz, pizza, nuggets, burgers, hot dogs, grilled cheese.

 

This is so true! Offering children such a limited, catered-to diet, especially when in public, of fried, breaded and high-sodium, high-sugar foods really has changed the way children eat! Restaurants used to have a limited menu of children's options that were just milder and smaller portions than the main menu.

 

When I was about 12, I remember begging to order a nice chicken dish from the "adult" menu only to discover that it had been prepared with white wine. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Various food allergies and sensitivities have been around in our family and friends for years, including one ds who is particular about certain foods and has an amazingly keen ability to taste and smell foods. But this ds ate a tremendous variety when he was little, everything from tofu to avocado, vegetables, melons, meats, fish, he tried most anything.

 

Somewhere before the age of 5, he developed a couple foods he didn't care for and I was pregnant and got lazy, honestly. He went from this fabulous eater down to two basic food (though broad) groups so quickly. I know that if I'd tried a bit harder, offered more variety, worked to keep introducing and make sure I kept his old favorites around, he wouldn't have gotten so limited.

 

So I think, certainly in my case, and perhaps in others, that our concern for keeping our dc healthy and eating, coupled with busy lifestyles and a more kid-centered culture can really contribute to catering to a child's appetite much more than is necessary, desirable or healthy for that child. We're still working our way back to a more strongly balanced diet here.

 

Again, all of this is a moot point where serious food allergies, health concerns and serious sensitivities are the case.

[KristineIN]

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this. It's interesting how people perceive food differently. I think sometimes food has to do with how it's prepared too. I grew up on a farm with lots of fresh fruits & vegetables, beef. My grandma was a really good cook and I learned a lot from her. She rarely followed recipes. Now some stuff, she made, I just did not care for. Her zucchini casserole was one of them. Dh was raised that you ate what was on your plate, if you didn't, you got it for breakfast the next morning. There are a few things that he will not eat now, but the main one is egg plant, he really doesn't care of olives or lima beans either. His mom was an ok cook, but they eat very bland food. (I season things well with spices and I cringe when we are eating a bowl of vegetable soup and everyone is saying how good it is, but I have to add saltine crackers because it has no flavor. (the veg. soup that his parents fix) My children like to try different things, always have, don't really turn their nose up at things. Dd doesn't care for fried/scrambled eggs, but loves egg salad & Deviled eggs. I think I cook a pretty good variety of things and we try different things fairly often. My children haven't bee "forced" to eat things, but are expected to try everything on their plate. Usually if I don't like it, they aren't going to like it, but there's very few things that I don't care for. They will even tell me, mom this needs more garlic, or needs more flavor.

 

Kristine

[lovemyboys]

but they eat very bland food.

 

I think I cook a pretty good variety of things and we try different things fairly often. My children haven't bee "forced" to eat things, but are expected to try everything on their plate. Usually if I don't like it, they aren't going to like it, but there's very few things that I don't care for. They will even tell me, mom this needs more garlic, or needs more flavor.

 

 

That's one thing that's been really interesting for me with ds. He actually loves very spicy food and has a wonderfully keen sense of spices and herbs. I can't sneak too much into a dish he's familiar with because he can really taste the ingredients, you know like a thin layer of refried beans under the meat in the taco.

 

But he will go through periods when a particular food doesn't appeal to him or he switches from eating pears whole to preferring to eat them peeled and with a fork.

 

So I go with the flow. Our rule is that you try it, a decent sized bite, of what's on your plate. I won't force dc to finish their plates or gag down something they clearly dislike.

 

I guess my goal here is for them to be able to behave around people without a lot of drama or insults for the cook (me or someone else). And I do remind them of the wonderful foods they've discovered like salmon -- but wouldn't know unless they'd tasted them.:D

 

Like I said before, I'm working to correct overindulging them when they were younger. If I get lazy and don't offer enough vegetables, they're just as happy with the mac and cheese, kwim? So I can't blame it all on their being too picky or having issues. And I'm definitely in the camp of sending along food if it's my dc who may not eat what's offered.