Another (adopted) child dead due to parents using Pearl methods..........

[LibraryLover]

Well, to be fair, I think that there is a decent number of Christians on this thread alone who've already said they disagree with the Pearls. I do wish they could reach out to the ones who are duped into child beating and show them a better way, but I haven't a clue how they should do that.

 

As for me, I would be proud if the Pearls declared me a Jezabel. It would consider it confirmation that, at least on the issue of child rearing, I'm doing it right. :D

 

 

;) Well, are you not a Jezable in so many ways? I know and am grateful that so many Christians here reject the teachings of other Christians who encourage child- beatings. I continue to be flabbergasted by those here who do not reject such teachings. It boggles the mind.

 

That's exactly what I hope -- that all the decent Christians, here and elsewhere, will reject any teachings that involve child 'spanking' , whipping, 'paddling', or torture/'punishment' (withholding food etc) of any child. For any reason.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joanne

http://www.paradisepost.com/news/ci_14378467

http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_14371777

http://www.chicoer.com/ci_14388171?source=most_viewed

http://www.khsltv.com/content/localn...b2Dx8U_gA.cspx

 

The reason I included adopted in the subject line is that adopted kids are more at risk. They are at risk because of the increase chance of behavioral issues (stemming from organic, emotional or RAD issues) and because parents using an extreme discipline philosophy on challenging adopted kids run the risk of harm. Indeed, what the Pearls' type of parenting offers is completely counter to good parenting of adopted kids *especially*.

 

All parents in this scenario, the murderers and torturers and those who offer the written fuel for it, should be brought to justice.

 

Forwarded this to Michael Pearl for his input. It seems only fair since he is the one being accused of accessory to murder.

 

The Thread or the articles?

 

The Thread. And the articles. I wonder what he will say.

 

Oh . My . Goodness. That is so inappropriate and absolutely intrusive in manner to silence those who dare disagree or offer their perspective on any number of topics. I thought I had seen everything . What a breach of etiquette, decency and trust among those who seem to be able to agree to disagree.

 

The forwarding of the entire thread and such to Mr Pearl by a poster here. I certainly respect every person's right to speak and certainly think that their words will not be forwarded to public figures especially those who have noteriety . I did not read most of the other threads so who knows what was said... The bottom line for me is that although this is a quasi public forum I think there is a reasonable expectation that our debates, questions, conundrums, and heartfelt convictions are not going to be shared with public figures particularly those who use violence and intimidation in their own home and church. It seems to be a way to achieve control over those who post by the constant threat that if a public figure is discussed unfavorably then that person needs to worry about whether the post will be shared with the public figure. Essentially how would you feel if you were debating a public policy issue with someone and instead of disagreeing politely they cut and pasted your post and sent it to the politician you were discussing. Not comfortable and frankly in my estimation a breach of good taste and netiquette.

I agree with you that this is just awful for those poor children. If they survive, who knows what their future will hold. Children are resilient though and I can only hope for the best for them.

 

Just quoting this in case "sunshine" goes back to delete.

 

These boards are public, of course, but this breach of netiquette still sucks. IMHO.

[LibraryLover]

I can not imagine smiling at a child while hitting them with an implement, to me that does not speak love, but something much uglier that I really don't even have a name for in a parent-child relationship.

My parents hit me and while I disagree with that and do not parent that way myself, I am very thankful that they did not smile while doing it. What an ugly thought :confused:

 

I know. It makes my stomach turn. I am beating you with this paddle bcause I love you. It's porn.

[Denisemomof4]

Essentially how would you feel if you were debating a public policy issue with someone and instead of disagreeing politely they cut and pasted your post and sent it to the politician you were discussing. Not comfortable and frankly in my estimation a breach of good taste and netiquette.

I agree with you that this is just awful for those poor children. If they survive, who knows what their future will hold. Children are resilient though and I can only hope for the best for them.

 

while not debating public policy, I was sharing dialogue with a former pastor through email about a situation he dragged me into. He selectively edited several emails, cutting and pasting into all areas, and then took that email, with MY public email address, and posted it in front of the church. It was so far removed from the truth that dh decided to take ALL emails, HIS AND MINE, and email them to the entire church body to show the TRUTH. Thankfully, more than half the church left over this issue. Unfortunately, not everyone did and this sinful beast still has a job and a following. If he handed out purple Kool Aid, those followers would drink. It's frightening to think about.

 

Emailing this thread to Mr Pearl has the same feel. I don't agree that it was ok to do.

[LibraryLover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joanne

http://www.paradisepost.com/news/ci_14378467

http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_14371777

http://www.chicoer.com/ci_14388171?source=most_viewed

http://www.khsltv.com/content/localn...b2Dx8U_gA.cspx

 

The reason I included adopted in the subject line is that adopted kids are more at risk. They are at risk because of the increase chance of behavioral issues (stemming from organic, emotional or RAD issues) and because parents using an extreme discipline philosophy on challenging adopted kids run the risk of harm. Indeed, what the Pearls' type of parenting offers is completely counter to good parenting of adopted kids *especially*.

 

All parents in this scenario, the murderers and torturers and those who offer the written fuel for it, should be brought to justice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just quoting this in case "sunshine" goes back to delete.

 

These boards are public, of course, but this breach of netiquette still sucks. IMHO.

 

 

It's a public board. What we should report is whether anyone who is anti child abuse in the name of Christianity is harassed for their views. Let's make sure anything like that is reported to each other and to this site. Don't delete any threatening PMs or emails etc.

 

I would also ask that if the mods choose to lock this thread, that they keep on file the thread as it exists, rather than completley delete it, even if it is removed from the boards.

Edited February 16, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

It's a public board. What we should report is whether anyone who is anti child abuse in the name of Christianity is harassed for their views. Let's make sure anything like that is reported to each other and to this site. Don't delete any threatening PMs or emails etc.

 

I would also ask that if the mods choose to lock this thread, that they keep on file the thread as it exists, rather than completley delete it, even if it is removed from the boards.

 

I think you are right.

 

My youngest son talked very late. He also was extremely clingy and fussy, and screamed and cried when I tried to put him down to sleep. He screamed and cried when I tried to get him to sit in his high chair. He screamed and cried in the van.

 

Pearlites and Ezzoites of my acquaintance had the solution. Rubber tubing, glue sticks, domination. They thought I was losing a battle of wills.

 

I wasn't a new mother and I knew what I believed about love, Jesus, and babies, so I did not hit him. We left those people behind, because their advice was evil. I held him while he slept. I let him stay as close to me as he needed to be, because I didn't know what was wrong.

 

You know what the problem was? We didn't find it out until he was almost TWO because of his other health problems and delays, but the problem was that my son was legally blind.

 

He cried when I was out of arm's reach because he was a baby and he couldn't see me leaving. He couldn't see me coming back. He only knew if I was there.

 

The horror of it all, if I had listened to the baby trainers. He was blind!!! Can you imagine if I'd struck him with pipes and tubes and sticks and spoons and hoses, when he was crying out to me??? My God.

[Audrey]

The horror of it all, if I had listened to the baby trainers. He was blind!!! Can you imagine if I'd struck him with pipes and tubes and sticks and spoons and hoses, when he was crying out to me??? My God.

 

 

No, I cannot imagine. The thought.... no, I cannot even go there. :grouphug: Your son is so lucky to have you.

[LibraryLover]

I can't even imagine. :grouphug: Your son is lucky to have such a compassionate mama.

 

I think you are right.

 

My youngest son talked very late. He also was extremely clingy and fussy, and screamed and cried when I tried to put him down to sleep. He screamed and cried when I tried to get him to sit in his high chair. He screamed and cried in the van.

 

Pearlites and Ezzoites of my acquaintance had the solution. Rubber tubing, glue sticks, domination. They thought I was losing a battle of wills.

 

I wasn't a new mother and I knew what I believed about love, Jesus, and babies, so I did not hit him. We left those people behind, because their advice was evil. I held him while he slept. I let him stay as close to me as he needed to be, because I didn't know what was wrong.

 

You know what the problem was? We didn't find it out until he was almost TWO because of his other health problems and delays, but the problem was that my son was legally blind.

 

He cried when I was out of arm's reach because he was a baby and he couldn't see me leaving. He couldn't see me coming back. He only knew if I was there.

 

The horror of it all, if I had listened to the baby trainers. He was blind!!! Can you imagine if I'd struck him with pipes and tubes and sticks and spoons and hoses, when he was crying out to me??? My God.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Thank you both. That was kinda hard to type but I couldn't help it.

 

BTW he is 5 now, with a curly mop of hair, an ear-to-ear smile, very thick glasses, an eye patch, and a gluten-free diet. He can climb, play, talk, and read a little, and he's very good at math. He's secure, attached, curious, and happy, so I'm very thankful that all his issues are resolved :)

[GWOB]

I think you are right.

 

My youngest son talked very late. He also was extremely clingy and fussy, and screamed and cried when I tried to put him down to sleep. He screamed and cried when I tried to get him to sit in his high chair. He screamed and cried in the van.

 

Pearlites and Ezzoites of my acquaintance had the solution. Rubber tubing, glue sticks, domination. They thought I was losing a battle of wills.

 

I wasn't a new mother and I knew what I believed about love, Jesus, and babies, so I did not hit him. We left those people behind, because their advice was evil. I held him while he slept. I let him stay as close to me as he needed to be, because I didn't know what was wrong.

 

You know what the problem was? We didn't find it out until he was almost TWO because of his other health problems and delays, but the problem was that my son was legally blind.

 

He cried when I was out of arm's reach because he was a baby and he couldn't see me leaving. He couldn't see me coming back. He only knew if I was there.

 

The horror of it all, if I had listened to the baby trainers. He was blind!!! Can you imagine if I'd struck him with pipes and tubes and sticks and spoons and hoses, when he was crying out to me??? My God.

 

You ROCK! Thank you, from a survivor of Pearl-type discipline, for being such a wonderfully loving mom.

[LibraryLover]

Thank you both. That was kinda hard to type but I couldn't help it.

 

BTW he is 5 now, with a curly mop of hair, an ear-to-ear smile, very thick glasses and an eye patch. All is well.

 

 

:001_smile: Good for you both! Our children need us to respond to them. We don't always know why they need us, but babies need us. Even bigger kids need us. A need met is a need met. A need unmet is a need that gnaws at the soul. It's always better to err on the side of meeting the needs of the young life who totally depends on us in this often scary new world.

[GWOB]

I am jumping in here late. I missed the 21 deleted posts, so I do not know the full story, though I did read through the whole thread.

 

I survived a Pearl-type upbringing. I know for a fact my parents NEVER read a book by the Pearls, as they never would have acknowledged their lack of knowledge of parenting. Apparently my father, the Southern Baptist minister, knew everything there was to know about parenting, despite the fact that he abandoned his three previous children by two different women.

 

I was beaten constantly with fists, open hands (which leave less marks), hair brushes, vacuum cleaner attachments, hangers, etc., all in the name of Jesus. I had my mother, who had a good 100lbs on me actually sit on me while beating me. My dad, the Southern Baptist minister and veteran of numerous bar fights, would beat the daylights out of me. I am sure I suffered cracked ribs as I could not inhale deeply for weeks, all in the name of Jesus. To hear ANYONE defend these sick, disgusting creatures is HIGHLY offensive to me. It took me a L.O.N.G. time to find the real Jesus. My Jesus rocks. He is the epitome and manifestation of love. He is NOT this sick, twisted, vile, disgusting thing the Pearls and their followers are making him out to be.

 

I am offended by the followers of the Pearls in this thread, and it is seriously hard to offend me. I was a Navy chick. I have seen and heard it all. This is disgusting. My heart aches for these poor beautiful children who were subjected to such monstrous parents.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

:001_smile: Good for you both! Our children need us to respond to them. We don't always know why they need us, but babies need us. Even bigger kids need us. A need met is a need met. A need unmet is a need that gnaws at the soul. It's always better to err on the side of meeting the needs of the young life who totally depends on us in this often scary new world.

This is completely OT... but my daughter has ADHD and I have been reading Dr. Sears discipline book. He goes on and on about ADHD being a disorder caused by a lack of attachment parenting. My daughter could not possibly be more attached to me before her brother was born. I would not finish dinner if she was crying. It was always late. Very late. When I had to stay in the hospital with him, I was sick and having her visit me for an hour made me much better. I don't know how I messed up attachment parenting, but Dr. Sears must think so.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

It took me a L.O.N.G. time to find the real Jesus. My Jesus rocks. He is the epitome and manifestation of love.

:grouphug: How wonderful that you can see the truth.

[helena]

I think you are right.

 

My youngest son talked very late. He also was extremely clingy and fussy, and screamed and cried when I tried to put him down to sleep. He screamed and cried when I tried to get him to sit in his high chair. He screamed and cried in the van.

 

Pearlites and Ezzoites of my acquaintance had the solution. Rubber tubing, glue sticks, domination. They thought I was losing a battle of wills.

 

I wasn't a new mother and I knew what I believed about love, Jesus, and babies, so I did not hit him. We left those people behind, because their advice was evil. I held him while he slept. I let him stay as close to me as he needed to be, because I didn't know what was wrong.

 

You know what the problem was? We didn't find it out until he was almost TWO because of his other health problems and delays, but the problem was that my son was legally blind.

 

He cried when I was out of arm's reach because he was a baby and he couldn't see me leaving. He couldn't see me coming back. He only knew if I was there.

 

The horror of it all, if I had listened to the baby trainers. He was blind!!! Can you imagine if I'd struck him with pipes and tubes and sticks and spoons and hoses, when he was crying out to me??? My God.

 

:grouphug: I hope this post doesn't get over looked in all of the heated debate here. This is the heart of the whole situation. We have the ability to show our babies a world of love and compassion, or to turn a child's life into a living nightmare. Amy you are a lovely woman, you were very generous to share this with us.

[sunshine]

I have to think that this is after you give them a spank, when you're trying to smooth things over and talk things through... not while....

:confused:

 

 

Ok, to the smiling part of spanking. You view spanking as hitting a child. Going up to a child and whaleing on them. and yes most spanking is this. This is wrong. This is not advocated by me or in my reading of the Pearls book, by them. I am sorry if my defending them makes some of you sick. I really am not trying to do that. But I don't like the way the book has been portrayed as a "whip you child until he repents" method. It is not. It is not, now it has been several years since I have read it, maybe he updated it and turned it into a whip and torture your child book as it is being portrayed here, and I just didn't get a copy. You are told to keep a pleasant, not angry face and to be in complete control of your self and to lightly swat, not raise your hand to the ceiling and with all your force bring it down on the child until he knows who is boss. But to get the attention of the child. And I do not recall at all the Pearls ever advocating the beating of a baby. Or the beating of a child at all. Maybe my memory is faulty or I missed that chapter. He has stated his disgust for child abusers and wife abusers numerous times. But I read the book. And I have corresponded with them numberous times.

 

Next, I was wondering what the breach of etiquette that was being spoken of and have finally figured it out. I am blonde so maybe I am slow.

I was not aware that these conversations were priviledged and that they were closed to the public. For all we know one of the Pearls may be members already. Maybe I am one of them. :glare: Seriously, how would you know? That is beside the point, the reason I forwarded the first post that Joanne made was because she accused him of being an accessory to murder. That is a serious charge. I want to him to know what is being said and what he is being blamed for by multiple people. I want to know what he has to say for himself. How will he explain it? I have found in the past that when I question him on something he responds. It may take a few weeks as they get thousands of letters (from child abusers no doupt) and he may respond tonight. But this being a breach of etiquette is something that did not occur to me. I wanted answers. This isn't the first time this charge has been lodged against him on this board. Why is that wrong? It is a public forum. Is there a fear of retalitation or a charge of slander? We have a right to voice our opinion of a public figure and he certainly is one. So tell me where the rule of etiquette that I breached was stated. Was it in the fine print when I joined years ago?

 

Next, I do not go back and delete posts to cover up anything and am offended that anyone would suggest that I would. Maybe you worry about something that would occur to you to do but that would never occur to me.

 

 

but I am from the south and I do like some of the Pearls teaching so that must make me slow. I also love the "Never Hit A Child" website too. Must make me bipolar.

 

I disagree with some part of every child rearing book I have ever read and I have read dozens. I do feel sorry for the children of the ignorant who beat their children in the name of God. But people have been killing, maiming and torturing people in the name of God since the beginning of time> and in the name of multiple other gods too. It is wrong and sick period. As I stated in another thread, you know when you are hurting a child, you know when it is abuse, you know when you are doing it. It is no surprise. You just tell yourself you lost control.

Edited February 16, 2010 by sunshine

[EthiopianFood]

Ok, to the smiling part of spanking. You view spanking as hitting a child. Going up to a child and whaleing on them. and yes most spanking is this. This is wrong. This is not advocated by me or in my reading of the Pearls book, by them. I am sorry if my defending them makes some of you sick. I really am not trying to do that. But I don't like the way the book has been portrayed as a "whip you child until he repents" method. It is not. It is not, now it has been several years since I have read it, maybe he updated it and turned it into a whip and torture your child book as it is being portrayed here, and I just didn't get a copy. You are told to keep a pleasant, not angry face and to be in complete control of your self and to lightly swat, not raise your hand to the ceiling and with all your force bring it down on the child until he knows who is boss. But to get the attention of the child. And I do not recall at all the Pearls ever advocating the beating of a baby. Or the beating of a child at all. Maybe my memory is faulty or I missed that chapter. He has stated his disgust for child abusers and wife abusers numerous times. But I read the book. And I have corresponded with them numberous times.

 

Next, I was wondering what the breach of etiquette that was being spoken of and have finally figured it out. I am blonde so maybe I am slow.

I was not aware that these conversations were priviledged and that they were closed to the public. For all we know one of the Pearls may be members already. Maybe I am one of them. :glare: Seriously, how would you know? That is beside the point, the reason I forwarded the first post that Joanne made was because she accused him of being an accessory to murder. That is a serious charge. I want to him to know what is being said and what he is being blamed for by multiple people. I want to know what he has to say for himself. How will he explain it? I have found in the past that when I question him on something he responds. It may take a few weeks as they get thousands of letters (from child abusers no doupt) and he may respond tonight. But this being a breach of etiquette is something that did not occur to me. I wanted answers. This isn't the first time this charge has been lodged against him on this board. Why is that wrong? It is a public forum. Is there a fear of retalitation or a charge of slander? We have a right to voice our opinion of a public figure and he certainly is one. So tell me where the rule of etiquette that I breached was stated. Was it in the fine print when I joined years ago?

 

Next, I do not go back and delete posts to cover up anything and am offended that anyone would suggest that I would. Maybe you worry about something that would occur to you to do but that would never occur to me.

 

but I am from the south and I do like some of the Pearls teaching so that must make me slow. I also love the "Never Hit A Child" website too. Must make me bipolar.

 

I'm curious if you will be posting his reply. He is replying to the women here, not really you, after all. :bigear:

[sunshine]

I'm curious if you will be posting his reply. He is replying to the women here, not really you, after all. :bigear:

 

Absolutely. That was the point of forwarding it to him. For him to explain himself to all of us. And to others that have the same view of him and his methods. Why would I not post his reply. Hopefully he will post his own reply. It is him who is being questioned. He should answer.

[LibraryLover]

This is completely OT... but my daughter has ADHD and I have been reading Dr. Sears discipline book. He goes on and on about ADHD being a disorder caused by a lack of attachment parenting. My daughter could not possibly be more attached to me before her brother was born. I would not finish dinner if she was crying. It was always late. Very late. When I had to stay in the hospital with him, I was sick and having her visit me for an hour made me much better. I don't know how I messed up attachment parenting, but Dr. Sears must think so.

 

I am not a huge Sears fan, and I think it's irresponsible for a physician to blame a parent for a neurological issue. It's like saying your kid has a heart murmur because you didn't love him enough.

 

I would like to warn people. I don't recall that in the Discipline book. Is it short enough to quote here without breaking copyright rules? That's vile.

 

One of my children was born with a birth defect, and we spent many hours in the hospital with that child, leaving the others at home with my mother. None of my kids are ADHD. I wonder what Sears would think of that?

Edited February 16, 2010 by LibraryLover

[sunshine]

I went and looked at my email. I copied Joannes statement. I pasted it into the email. There are not any identifying statements in the email. It doesn't have Joannes name nor the boards name. So I guess he will be replying directly to me. I will post when and if I get it.

 

Better?

[EthiopianFood]

Absolutely. That was the point of forwarding it to him. For him to explain himself to all of us. And to others that have the same view of him and his methods. Why would I not post his reply. Hopefully he will post his own reply. It is him who is being questioned. He should answer.

 

I don't know you so I didn't want to assume either way. :001_smile: Someone might not post what he says because they only forwarded the posts to try to form an alliance with him, to feel special. If your loyalty is to him, you might feel that forwarding a personal email would be a violation of his privacy. I was just curious.

[KidsHappen]

Wow, how is it that this thread is even still open?

[sunshine]

I don't know you so I didn't want to assume either way. :001_smile: Someone might not post what he says because they only forwarded the posts to try to form an alliance with him, to feel special. If your loyalty is to him, you might feel that forwarding a personal email would be a violation of his privacy. I was just curious.

 

 

Yes I suppose you would be curious, and not knowing me would wonder if I did it to "feel special". But, uh, no. Feel special all by myself, don't need a public figure to help out in that department. But I suppose that happens all the time. And if you are a public figure or on a public forum, you don't have a whole lot of privacy to be violated.

 

As for loyalty, that would mean there were teams. Sides. Picking a side. I haven't. I am on the side of the dead child, who was beaten to death for mispronouncing a foreign word. By 2 sicko parents who beat and abused their other children and hid in the world of homeschooling so they wouldn't be caught. I hope they get the electric chair because I believe in the death penalty. I just wish they would do it withing 60 days of conviction. The murder rate would drop overnight.

[Liz CA]

This happened fairly close to where we live. Horrible what happened to the children. I am waiting that at any moment, the media will zero in on the homeschooling aspect and make out every homeschooler as a nutty parent who beats their children senseless.

I have no clue what this couple thought they were doing but the media has already pointed out repeatedly that they are "Christians" as if this explained the whole thing???? :glare:

[asta]

 

but I am from the south and I do like some of the Pearls teaching so that must make me slow. I also love the "Never Hit A Child" website too. Must make me bipolar.

 

 

Please don't insult the millions of people who must deal with the biological disease of bipolar with such a pithy response.

 

Joanne could correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the correct category for someone who behaves in the manner such as you have described would be closer to depression.

 

 

a

[asta]

I think there's a difference between the Pearls and Andrea Yates and the Mansons.

 

[...]

 

Andrea Yates' husband and doctors KNEW of her condition and were negligent. She was the one to kill her children, but had she been appropriately cared for by her medical team, this may not have happened. I don't want to say "definitely wouldn't have happened" and I'm normally one who believes people need to own their choices, but in her specific case, I'm not convinced she had the frame of mind to discern the wrong choice. I do believe her husband and doctors were to blame for that tragedy, even though she did the actual crime.

 

There is an interesting (short - one page) discussion on this here. I actually know one of the neuropsychologists who examined her right after she was arrested and then throughout the trial (many reports say she "changed" as the trial progressed). He maintained throughout that, hands down, she was a classic schizophrenic.

 

If anyone is curious, schizophrenia normally onsets at adolescence.

 

 

a

[hsmamainva]

I think you are right.

 

My youngest son talked very late. He also was extremely clingy and fussy, and screamed and cried when I tried to put him down to sleep. He screamed and cried when I tried to get him to sit in his high chair. He screamed and cried in the van.

 

Pearlites and Ezzoites of my acquaintance had the solution. Rubber tubing, glue sticks, domination. They thought I was losing a battle of wills.

 

I wasn't a new mother and I knew what I believed about love, Jesus, and babies, so I did not hit him. We left those people behind, because their advice was evil. I held him while he slept. I let him stay as close to me as he needed to be, because I didn't know what was wrong.

 

You know what the problem was? We didn't find it out until he was almost TWO because of his other health problems and delays, but the problem was that my son was legally blind.

 

He cried when I was out of arm's reach because he was a baby and he couldn't see me leaving. He couldn't see me coming back. He only knew if I was there.

 

The horror of it all, if I had listened to the baby trainers. He was blind!!! Can you imagine if I'd struck him with pipes and tubes and sticks and spoons and hoses, when he was crying out to me??? My God.

 

:grouphug:

 

I could've written a similar post!

 

My youngest is autistic and I can't imagine disciplining her for something she has no control over!

 

I don't even want to think what the Pearls would suggest that I do to my daughter when she shrieks at the top of her lungs or bites herself. (Not to mention what they'd think about the fact that she's still not completely potty trained at the age of 8).

 

We treat her with love and compassion and respect....the same way we treat all of our children.