S/o Bill's comment: Are you your spouse's keeper?

[Jean in Newcastle]

But Peek, the original context for this spin-off was someone believing that eating too much meat was harmful and thus, changing their spouses diet for them. I see my dh eating high glycemic foods (he's diabetic) and yes there are known dangers to him doing so. But while I don't buy or provide the foods for him, I'm not going to snatch it out of his mouth, either. I might raise my eyebrow or make a comment about "um, are you sure you want to do that?" but if he glares at me and says "yes", then I'm going to shrug and let him deal with the consequences.

 

But when his bloodsugar gets too high, I will go exercise with him. And if his sugar rises and then crashes, I will do medically what I can for him. But while I love my husband very much and he usually is a very intelligent man, sometimes we all make unhealthy choices. Now, if he was mentally compromised in some way (maybe due to medicine or something) and started to do something harmful, I would be more forceful in my response because in that case he wouldn't be acting like a responsible adult.

[HRAAB]

Back in Sept. my dh fell from the top of a 10' fruit ladder. I had asked him to leave those apples for the birds, but... He ended up with a compression fracture and was fitted with a brace. He hated it - to put it mildly. Somehow, he would forget to put it on in the morning. :tongue_smilie: Quite a few times I said to him something on the order of, "Don't you think you should wear your brace?" He'd grumble and put it on. He knew he should be wearing it, but he would try his best to ignore it. I see that as watching out for him - especially since he has back problems anyway. I'm not saying, "Go put it on" like he's a child. He knew he should wear it, he knew I was worried about him. He would do the same for me.

 

Thankfully I have a very reasonable dh, except for climbing tall fruit ladders.

[Rosie_0801]

Thankfully I have a very reasonable dh, except for climbing tall fruit ladders.

 

:lol: Well, nobody is perfect.

 

 

Rosie

[Peek a Boo]

But Peek, the original context for this spin-off was someone believing that eating too much meat was harmful and thus, changing their spouses diet for them. I see my dh eating high glycemic foods (he's diabetic) and yes there are known dangers to him doing so. But while I don't buy or provide the foods for him, I'm not going to snatch it out of his mouth, either. I might raise my eyebrow or make a comment about "um, are you sure you want to do that?" but if he glares at me and says "yes", then I'm going to shrug and let him deal with the consequences.

 

But when his bloodsugar gets too high, I will go exercise with him. And if his sugar rises and then crashes, I will do medically what I can for him. But while I love my husband very much and he usually is a very intelligent man, sometimes we all make unhealthy choices. Now, if he was mentally compromised in some way (maybe due to medicine or something) and started to do something harmful, I would be more forceful in my response because in that case he wouldn't be acting like a responsible adult.

 

but why would you wait until the known harm is DONE, and possibly be too late in acting? What's the long term effect of blood sugar rising and crashing?

 

to follow your last statement to its logical conclusion: why would a responsible adult w/ complete mental faculties do something knowingly harmful to themselves that they know would affect an entire family?

 

and yeah, there ARE "debateable" issues, but when we start crossing the line to imminent, known dangers, the debate is gone. I do happen to think that Spycar's personal opinion is debateable, but not necessarily HARMFUL. if i was his wife and he was making the effort to do the shopping and cooking and cleaning up from something that he strongly believed in, I would hope that I'd be reasonable enough to support his deeply held beliefs, even when they extend to someone other than himself.

 

i have a very nice friend that is comfortable sharing debateable issues with me because I understand that these things mean A LOT to her. i may not handle her position with kid gloves, but I do let her know that I am never offended that she wants to share it with me, and that she is welcome to do so again as she is led. is she my "keeper"? Absolutely. Not in EVERYthing, but I appreciate that she cares enough about me to express genuine concern in these areas.

 

there are so many sides to this issue that if one starts really examining the sides too closely, everyone's gonna get mad and offended. This is probably where it's best to say "well bless your heart you're just set on that line of thinking, aren't you? whatever. Have a nice day" and leave it at that. and include a big cheesy grin.

:D

[Spy Car]

but why would you wait until the known harm is DONE, and possibly be too late in acting? What's the long term effect of blood sugar rising and crashing?

 

to follow your last statement to its logical conclusion: why would a responsible adult w/ complete mental faculties do something knowingly harmful to themselves that they know would affect an entire family?

 

and yeah, there ARE "debateable" issues, but when we start crossing the line to imminent, known dangers, the debate is gone.

 

I share this line of thinking. Watching a loved one harm themselves, and then helping them deal with the repercussions after the fact seems like too little too late. To me.

 

I do happen to think that Spycar's personal opinion is debateable, but not necessarily HARMFUL.....

 

I knew it couldn't last :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

Edited February 11, 2010 by Spy Car

[Ginevra]

Do you "watch out" for your spouse, whether in matters of food, dress, finances, driving, or other areas? Do you feel it is part of your marital role? Or would that be considered disrespectful in your marriage?

 

No. Not at all. If he was doing something harmful to myself or the kids, I would tell him I'm not fine with it, but I don't tell him he shouldn't have the ice cream, already had two beers and doesn't need a third, shouldn't watch Fuel TV or whatever. I do buy most of his clothes, but that's more of an "assistant" type of thing - he doesn't like to shop, doesn't care about picking out clothes, and so I do it for him.

 

By the way, I expect him to let me live my life, too.

[Peek a Boo]

I share this line of thinking. Watching a loved one harm themselves, and then helping them deal with the repercussions after the fact seems like too little too late. To me.

yeah. there's always that fine line of "how much do i let consequences rule" when i know a kid --or adult-- will likely injure themselves, but this is where examining the full reality of the consequences comes in:

I let my 15yo climb onto and leap from the roof of the house because he has amazing athletic skills. The chances are good that he will land safely, possible that he will break a limb, and slight that he'll break his neck. Am I ok w/ driving him to the emergency room to fix a broken arm/leg? yeah. Am I ok w/ holding a funeral for him. No, not really, but as the popular line goes-- "he could be killed....or worse!" As one of the more protective parents on this board, many of my decisions are based on the or worse line of thinking. and there are different kinds of worse.

 

 

I knew it couldn't last :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

 

:lol::D

[Jean in Newcastle]

but why would you wait until the known harm is DONE, and possibly be too late in acting? What's the long term effect of blood sugar rising and crashing?

 

to follow your last statement to its logical conclusion: why would a responsible adult w/ complete mental faculties do something knowingly harmful to themselves that they know would affect an entire family?

 

and yeah, there ARE "debateable" issues, but when we start crossing the line to imminent, known dangers, the debate is gone. I do happen to think that Spycar's personal opinion is debateable, but not necessarily HARMFUL. if i was his wife and he was making the effort to do the shopping and cooking and cleaning up from something that he strongly believed in, I would hope that I'd be reasonable enough to support his deeply held beliefs, even when they extend to someone other than himself.

 

i have a very nice friend that is comfortable sharing debateable issues with me because I understand that these things mean A LOT to her. i may not handle her position with kid gloves, but I do let her know that I am never offended that she wants to share it with me, and that she is welcome to do so again as she is led. is she my "keeper"? Absolutely. Not in EVERYthing, but I appreciate that she cares enough about me to express genuine concern in these areas.

 

there are so many sides to this issue that if one starts really examining the sides too closely, everyone's gonna get mad and offended. This is probably where it's best to say "well bless your heart you're just set on that line of thinking, aren't you? whatever. Have a nice day" and leave it at that. and include a big cheesy grin.

:D

 

Dh is an RN. He knows the future results of bad choices even more than I do. He does not make bad choices all the time. In fact, most of the time he follows the Zone Diet which is very low carb and has a good mix of protein and lots of fruits and veggies. But sometimes he "falls off the wagon". I can and do say something when he does, but short of yelling at him and "forbidding" him from making an unhealthy choice, what can I do? He is an informed, consenting adult. And I'd rather treat him that way.

 

And I'm very happy that if he catches me with my hands in the bag of chips, that he treats me that way too - esp. if I have PMS:D

 

I don't know what I would do if I had a spouse who made bad choices all the time. I suppose I would want him to get as much information as possible. So I would ask him to read a book on the subject or research it on the internet or see a specialist who could help him understand all the dynamics of his choices. But if he said, "no" I would feel stuck. I suppose I would pray my heart out that he would see the light. The truth is though that part of the criteria I had for marrying someone was that they would have a level head on their shoulders and some common sense. And despite my dh's occasional bad choices, I did marry someone like that.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Jean in Newcastle

[Renee in NC]

I share this line of thinking. Watching a loved one harm themselves, and then helping them deal with the repercussions after the fact seems like too little too late. To me.

 

 

 

I knew it couldn't last :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

 

I guess I am missing the point here, but how in the world do you get an adult to do something they don't want to do? The only thing trying to "convince" my dh to do something he didn't want to do (eat less meat, for example) would do is to cause friction and it wouldn't do any good.

 

Maybe it is just my dh, but if I were to try and convince him, nag him, etc, to do something he didn't want to do, I would end up pushing him to do that exact thing I didn't want him to do!:tongue_smilie:

 

And honestly, I feel the same way. I would be miserable being married to someone who thought they knew better than I did what I should do with my own body and my own life. The main thing we have ever had any conflict over was my trying to get him to do what I wanted him to do rather than what he wanted to do.

[MyThreeSons]

Do you "watch out" for your spouse, whether in matters of food, dress, finances, driving, or other areas? Do you feel it is part of your marital role? Or would that be considered disrespectful in your marriage?

 

this has become necessary over the last several years because of dh's Alzheimer's Disease. Before that, though, we were more partners. If I had a concern or suggestion, he listened and usually heeded.

[amy g.]

Any comment about what another adult ate would be considered extremely disrespectful in this family.

[Jane in NC]

I guess I am missing the point here, but how in the world do you get an adult to do something they don't want to do? The only thing trying to "convince" my dh to do something he didn't want to do (eat less meat, for example) would do is to cause friction and it wouldn't do any good.

 

Maybe it is just my dh, but if I were to try and convince him, nag him, etc, to do something he didn't want to do, I would end up pushing him to do that exact thing I didn't want him to do!:tongue_smilie:

 

 

I suspect that part of the reason for the misunderstood points in this thread is that we all have varying dynamics within our families. I'll try to take on the issue of less meat.

 

Perhaps my starting point is different. I have not eaten beef or pork in decades, since before my husband met me. My husband thus entered a relationship with me in which we ate poultry, fish, tofu, etc. He has had a job in which lunch was essentially the daily staff meeting. Everyone in the small office of consultants went out together if they were in town. He could order beef or pork if he wanted it at those meals or while he was traveling in the job (which was often). But my did he gain weight over two years! He had has cholesterol numbers run and they were over the top! So he went on a program to reduce his cholesterol through diet which just did not work. Part of it was will power, part of it was the sheer magnitude of the problem. Then came statins...

 

Now I am not keen on statins but it is his body and he believes that statins will keep him around longer. Many people who go on statins seem to feel that the meds take care of the problem so they eat what they want. My husband has gone through a slow process of cleaning up his diet. He decided to reduce beef and pork consumption initially, then eliminated it. He liked Sundrop (a regional soda). He did not banish that from his life until years later. And that was his choice. He has since read Michael Pollen's books and reminded me this year about writing the check to our CSA. It is a ongoing education for him.

 

Do I restrict beef and pork from my son's diet? No. But I don't cook these meats. Interestingly, my son is revolted by fat--I think this is from being raised on lean meats. If you gave him the choice of a turkey burger or a beef burger, he would probably go with the turkey (especially after the pink sludge report). On a recent college visit, he chose the vegan option for dinner. Why? He likes portobello mushrooms.

 

Eating healthier foods may be an acquired taste. I think they have to be presented slowly, probably repeatedly. People who are addicted to salt and fat find foods without these things to be bland or less appealing--but I'm sure you know this.

 

OK--I make spelt crackers (recipe over at the New York Times). My family loves these, prefers them to store bought. If these were served with soup or homemade hummus, would your husband not give them a try? Does he ask what is on the menu beforehand and then alter it if he does not approve? Is he willing to try new foods (a good way to introduce some interesting vegetarian recipes)?

 

Most adults know what they should do for good health. Some can be pretty stubborn about not doing what is best for them and I agree that adults cannot be nagged into better behaviors. But, as I mentioned in my other post in this thread, I feel that I can offer support for better behaviors. Can you and your husband learn to cook a new, healthy meal together? Do you take walks together after dinner or on the weekend? Don't we all encourage our children to participate in healthy lifestyles, too?

 

Jane

[Jane in NC]

Any comment about what another adult ate would be considered extremely disrespectful in this family.

 

Are we talking about making direct comments on every forkful of food or are we talking about "watching out" by encouraging healthy lifestyles? I did the grocery shopping yesterday and came home with a load of fruits for snacking. I could have purchased chips instead, but I encourage healthy diets by having a variety of fruits available. I do not see this as disrespectful. On the contrary, I think I am showing great respect for my family's future health!

[kiana]

Are we talking about making direct comments on every forkful of food or are we talking about "watching out" by encouraging healthy lifestyles? I did the grocery shopping yesterday and came home with a load of fruits for snacking. I could have purchased chips instead, but I encourage healthy diets by having a variety of fruits available. I do not see this as disrespectful. On the contrary, I think I am showing great respect for my family's future health!

 

I think there's a huge difference between making healthy choices when you purchase/cook and attempting to make sure that your spouse makes healthy choices when he/she purchases/cooks.

 

e.g. I have one big vice w.r.t eating. I really, really like one specific kind of soda. I try not to drink it very often. Occasionally, though, I really want some and I buy it. I don't expect SO to buy it for me. I do, however, expect him not to throw it out/nag me about it when I buy it. Both of us know it's not good for me. :D

[sheryl]

Do you "watch out" for your spouse, whether in matters of food, dress, finances, driving, or other areas? Do you feel it is part of your marital role? Or would that be considered disrespectful in your marriage?

 

 

That's a good question. Well, I firmly believe that either way....husband to wife or wife to husband....the watching out demonstrates the love one has for the other. It's helping and protecting the other spouse out of love and respect. The traditional marriage vows reference "caring" for one another. I do this because I love my dh. However, I don't "nag" anymore...used to :tongue_smilie: , but don't now. HTH! Sheryl <><

[Renee in NC]

Most adults know what they should do for good health. Some can be pretty stubborn about not doing what is best for them and I agree that adults cannot be nagged into better behaviors. But, as I mentioned in my other post in this thread, I feel that I can offer support for better behaviors. Can you and your husband learn to cook a new, healthy meal together? Do you take walks together after dinner or on the weekend? Don't we all encourage our children to participate in healthy lifestyles, too?

 

Jane

 

I had typed out a long response, but it wasn't really necessary. I will say that it boils down to relationship dynamics and personality. Dh and I are not as...integrated...as it seems many others are. We are two individuals that are very different who support the other person's desire to do whatever it is they want to do (within reason.) At this point, he works and I take care of the family (including him.)

 

If dh decided to make a change, I would support him in that. If I decided to make a change, he would support me. There would be no expectation either way that the other person would follow suit. If I thought he was doing something very dangerous I would not allow him to put us in danger or to cause a problem for us. My definition of "very dangerous" is a lot more narrow than most.

 

For example, I have told him that he doesn't have enough life insurance to ride a motorcycle. I am serious about that! However, if we could purchase more life insurance, then he could ride a bike.:tongue_smilie: It may happen someday and I will support him in his desire, even if I think he is NUTS!:D

[Renee in NC]

Are we talking about making direct comments on every forkful of food or are we talking about "watching out" by encouraging healthy lifestyles? I did the grocery shopping yesterday and came home with a load of fruits for snacking. I could have purchased chips instead, but I encourage healthy diets by having a variety of fruits available. I do not see this as disrespectful. On the contrary, I think I am showing great respect for my family's future health!

 

If you go back to the original thread that started this thread, you would see that it was pushed on the dh. She had gone to the store, bought all the food that fit *her* diet and her dh was upset because there was nothing to eat (at least not the normal things that she had bought for him in the past.) I understand the desire to have a healthy spouse, but what she did would not play out well here. I have tried Eat to Live in the past, but I still bought dh certain things that he wanted and expected to have (including meat!) I consider it disrespectful and controlling, but then we go back to the relationship dynamics and personality issues.

[Jane in NC]

If you go back to the original thread that started this thread, you would see that it was pushed on the dh. She had gone to the store, bought all the food that fit *her* diet and her dh was upset because there was nothing to eat (at least not the normal things that she had bought for him in the past.) I understand the desire to have a healthy spouse, but what she did would not play out well here. I have tried Eat to Live in the past, but I still bought dh certain things that he wanted and expected to have (including meat!) I consider it disrespectful and controlling, but then we go back to the relationship dynamics and personality issues.

 

Thanks for the explanation. Next I think we need the spin off thread on respect and disrespect. I wonder if everyone uses these terms uniformly.

[Spy Car]

I guess I am missing the point here, but how in the world do you get an adult to do something they don't want to do? The only thing trying to "convince" my dh to do something he didn't want to do (eat less meat, for example) would do is to cause friction and it wouldn't do any good.

 

The way *I* would do it would be to offer alternatives that were equally (or more pleasing) and more life-affirming at the same time.

 

So if its food, I'd offer delicious choices that were a feast for the eyes and the palate. If it's *shoes*, I go out and purchase options that are a lot more comfortable than cowboy boots.

 

No nagging. Just co-option therough superior choice-giving :D

 

I would be miserable being married to someone who thought they knew better than I did what I should do with my own body and my own life. The main thing we have ever had any conflict over was my trying to get him to do what I wanted him to do rather than what he wanted to do.

 

I'm not keen on conflict in a marriage either. But I'd also be miserable sitting-by and watching a person I love doing themselves harm. Fortunately I'm not in that situation.

 

And if I'm the one who needs the correction or "co-option therough superior choice-giving" I'd consider it a loving act if my wife acted (rather than not).

 

Bill

[Rosie_0801]

I have tried Eat to Live in the past, but I still bought dh certain things that he wanted and expected to have (including meat!) I consider it disrespectful and controlling, but then we go back to the relationship dynamics and personality issues.

 

Or you could look at it the other way, that it is disrespectful of her husband to undermine her efforts in looking out for her family. She's not stalking him while he's at work to make sure he doesn't sneak hamburgers and chips for lunch.

 

When someone finds the perfect balance, hopefully they'll bottle it and sell some to me.

 

Rosie

[GailV]

 

Most adults know what they should do for good health.

 

 

Actually, no. Most adults are either not paying attention to information about nutrition, or else confused by the seemingly contradictory studies they read. The same with amounts of exercise.

 

However, most adults probably BELIEVE they know what they should do for good health.

[Jane in NC]

Actually, no. Most adults are either not paying attention to information about nutrition, or else confused by the seemingly contradictory studies they read. The same with amounts of exercise.

 

However, most adults probably BELIEVE they know what they should do for good health.

 

Yeah, I think that you are right Gail. Why else would the food industry have so many financially successful food/dietary fads? Then there are all of the silly diet books.

 

I stand corrected.

 

Jane (who admittedly has a sweet tooth)

[Peek a Boo]

But sometimes he "falls off the wagon". I can and do say something when he does, but short of yelling at him and "forbidding" him from making an unhealthy choice, what can I do? He is an informed, consenting adult. And I'd rather treat him that way.

 

And I'm very happy that if he catches me with my hands in the bag of chips, that he treats me that way too - esp. if I have PMS:D

 

 

does eating chips have a profound, dangerous effect on your health?

apples and oranges.......

 

I guess I am missing the point here, but how in the world do you get an adult to do something they don't want to do? The only thing trying to "convince" my dh to do something he didn't want to do (eat less meat, for example) would do is to cause friction and it wouldn't do any good.

 

 

I find it amazing that so many people are actually OFFENDED and MISERABLE if their spouse is vocally and proactively concerned about their HEALTH.

 

People who are addicted to salt and fat find foods without these things to be bland or less appealing--but I'm sure you know this.

 

one doesn't need to be "addicted" to salts and fats to prefer their flavors. :)

 

or else confused by the seemingly contradictory studies they read. The same with amounts of exercise.

 

However, most adults probably BELIEVE they know what they should do for good health.

 

and then there's defining "good health" for each individual.

 

as I noted previously, not every person is dangerously affected by certain diets. There are quite a few of us who are very healthy even on the stereotypical "less than ideal" diet. Others can be harmed by even "healthy" diets. I think it is important to know how one's body is dealing with the conditions it is subjected to.

 

those "contradictory" studies actually CAN be contradictory: if you are trying to apply both results to every individual. ;)

 

 

..... what I should do with my own body and my own life. The main thing we have ever had any conflict over was my trying to get him to do what I wanted him to do rather than what he wanted to do.

 

....and now we come full circle back to my first post:

scripturally, my body is HIS and his body is MINE.

and we are called to Submit to each other.

 

:D

[Jean in Newcastle]

....and now we come full circle back to my first post:

scripturally, my body is HIS and his body is MINE.

and we are called to Submit to each other.

 

:D

 

Well, scripturally, I apply that passage to sex.

 

Different couples have different dynamics. The dynamics of my marriage has always been more of us being two individual adults who love and respect each other's opinions but also each other's privacy and each other's right to make certain decisions for themselves. It may have something to do with our personalities. It may have something to do with the fact that dh was already in his thirties and I was almost thirty when we married.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I talked to dh tonight about this thread. He said:

 

"Our independence as individuals even in marriage, has to do with being free. We have privileges and responsibilities as part of that freedom. But we are accountable not to each other, but each of us directly to God."

 

I agree wholeheartedly with him.

[Peek a Boo]

Well, scripturally, I apply that passage to sex.

except that there's plenty of other scripture that clarifies mutual submission in everything to each other. Sex is certainly pointed out as one of The Most Private things that a spouse has complete access to: our very bodies.

 

 

I talked to dh tonight about this thread. He said:

 

"Our independence as individuals even in marriage, has to do with being free. We have privileges and responsibilities as part of that freedom. But we are accountable not to each other, but each of us directly to God." .

 

you'd have to discount a Very Large Portion of scripture on Christian accountability to arrive at that conclusion.