sleepymommy Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Ugh!! I feel like there is nothing I can do since I depend on the library for so much of my homeschooling. I returned a book last week, handed it directly to the librarian, paid my 10 cent overdue fee, spent at least 1/2 hour there, and checked out 3 more books prior to leaving. Well, now they are saying that the book I returned had water damage and I owe them 18.99. I returned the book in perfect condition! I didn't even read it, it stayed in our book basket. First, they gave me a hard time because I asked to see it:confused: It had been sent back to a different location in a different county that is part of our library system, so they wanted me to drive the 30 min there to pay for it. Then they finally said they would try to get it sent back to my location. Went today, saw it, again stated that I didn't cause any damage to it and if I was so obvious why hadn't the librarian said something to me at the time I returned it. But I said, that since it's a case of he said she said and since I need the library I would pay for it. I asked if I could buy a brand new one from Amazon or B&N and have it sent directly to the library (since it's only $10 on there) and I was told "no, we just don't do that". :willy_nilly: The list price for this book on both Amazon and B&N is 13.99, so I don't even understand why they want me to dish out $18.99, top that with the attitude I've been given about something I know I have not done and I'm livid!! (Sigh) I just had to rant about this to get it off my chest. Thanks for listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pageta Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I had that happen once. When I asked to see it, they told me I had to go to the branch where it belonged. I went there and they showed it to me, and I told them I was aware that it had damage but that we had not caused the damage - it had been that way when I checked it out. I explained that I had three small children and we had 75 books at a time, and I simply did not have time to check every book for damage before I checked it out. They had me fill out a form and it went to an appeals committee, which subsequently took the block off my account. The library has "library binding" books that you occasionally see on amazon which cost more because of their more durable binding. So your buying the one off the shelf at the local bookstore wouldn't necessarily be an equal replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.m Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I think they have to acquire books from a certain source to make it legal for check-out? I remember something about that from working at the library when I was in college. They couldn't just go to the store and buy books and usually donations were sold to get funds to purchase the books. I guess I would pay the fine and think of it as my donation to the library for the year. I check the books before I check them out. A few years ago I got a book that someone had colored in and had to pay for it. My kids didn't do it! So now I have them note every little stain or mark so that I don't have that happen again. (not that helps you for this situation, but hopefully for much later!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 The library has "library binding" books that you occasionally see on amazon which cost more because of their more durable binding. So your buying the one off the shelf at the local bookstore wouldn't necessarily be an equal replacement. This would be my guess as well. Library binding is more durable than regular binding, and is more rare, so it costs more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutor Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Our library charges a $5 processing fee for each book they have to replace, so the replacement cost is always at least $5 more than the purchase price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 This would be my guess as well. Library binding is more durable than regular binding, and is more rare, so it costs more. Yes, and also, it is possible that her library charges a processing fee on top of replacement cost. It does cost them supplies, time and money to re-order and re-process the replacement copy. I know that $5 is an average processing fee for many libraries who do charge one. To the OP, I don't think their rudeness is excusable either. If you do pay for the damaged book, be sure to ask for the book itself. In fact, I would insist on them giving you book when you pay. IMO, that is only fair, and were this in my library, it would be standard procedure for me to give you the damaged book when you pay for it anyway. Not saying this is what your library is doing, but I have known less-than-straight libraries who will have patrons pay for a damaged book (the replacement value, I mean), but then not actually replace the damaged book, but instead re-shelve the damaged book and keep the money collected! So, that is why I would make sure you get the book if you pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I think they have to acquire books from a certain source to make it legal for check-out? I remember something about that from working at the library when I was in college. They couldn't just go to the store and buy books and usually donations were sold to get funds to purchase the books. They usually buy from certain sources due to the ease of bulk ordering and purchase order procedures. Some places may partially pre-process them; I'm not sure. Other places offer subscriptions so that, say, the latest paperback romances are sent on a monthly basis. However, many large library systems do buy directly from stores. I have seen it with my own eyes. The source of the book purchase has nothing to do with legality of check-out. Library binding is just sturdier. I am glad to have a library system that trusts me when I self-report a book as damaged and never bats an eye. The stories I read on here about difficult libraries always make me very grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhM Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I didn't read all the posts -might have been said already, or might go without saying - but if you are buying that book - make sure you keep it!;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trixie Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Don't pay it. File a protest. YOu should still be able to use the library while it is under review. I have had to do this for books that I returned but weren't checked back in. They claimed I never returned them but I knew that I did. The protest didn't hinder my use of the library. I agree completely. If you know you didn't cause the damage and the librarian who accepted your late fine didn't comment on it, I'd be pretty skeptical that there was any damage when you returned it, or at least that there was sufficient damage to warrant the library's purchasing a new book. FWIW, I've even found the books that the library has claimed I never returned sitting right on the shelf--after the library claims to have conducted a search and not found it--so I'm always pretty skeptical. I love my library, but I know there are a lot of student volunteers who aren't always very careful about their handling of books. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 :angry::mad::cursing::banghead: There you go. HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Do you have any kind of rapport with a specific staff member? I'd start there, explain the situation and ask what they suggest you do. Otherwise, I would address my concerns to the director of the library, and honestly, if they still refused to remove the fine, I'd contact the library board (or whoever governs the library). I work for our county library. While we do have policies that we have to adhere to, if someone challenges a damaged book fee, I always encourage them to talk to our branch manager. But other staff might be not so nice about it. (Not that *I* am so nice, I just figure they can take their complaints to someone else if I can't fix it.) ----- Since you did NOT damage the book, it's irrelevant, but if you pay for the book, they certainly should be giving you the book and NOT making you drive anywhere to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibrarianMom Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 It had been sent back to a different location in a different county that is part of our library system. Was this book was an interlibrary loan? If so that would explain a good many things. If the other library says there is water damage, they are probably charging your library for it. If your library doesn't pay, then they can't get more books from that library, and it becomes a messy situation. As others have mentioned the charge is more than the list price as there is the cost of processing and staff time, etc. I agree that you should insist on receiving the book if you are paying for it though. One issue you may run into though is that they might not be able to order a new copy until the book is paid for and then they might need to keep the original book until the new one comes in. Each library has varying procedures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0mmaBuck Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Sounds so strange.... I love our library. Our library system covers several counties and one time my daughter tore some pages from a book... I went to Barnes and Noble and bought the same book and went to the library with both. The librarian was shocked that I would offer to replace the book.. She scanned the new book into the system with a new barcode sticker. Then she marked a line through the bar code on the book that was damaged and gave it to me saying my daughter could have that one.. Another time my son lost a book from his PS and the librarian told me I could either pay the $20 lost book fine or go buy a new book for $3.99 from Barnes and Noble.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 The exact same thing happened to me, except they even went so far as to tell me that when I returned it to XYZ branch is was damaged. I never go to XYZ branch. I have my books sent to the library by our house, and that is where I pick them up and return them. I did drive to XYZ branch to talk to the manager about it. She was a complete witch about it. I told her, "I did not damage this book, nor did I return it to this branch, as your note stated I did. I will not take responsibility for this, and I will not pay your inflated price for it. I will not pay $24.99 for a book that can be had on Amazon for $12.99. In addition, you said that this book is unusable, but this is merely cosmetic damage." The woman was very snotty and said, "Well, I guess if you claim you didn't damage, I have to believe you, right?" I said, "I don't care whether you believe me or not, I just want you to remove the charge from my account." I am not normally so assertive! The charge was removed. Btw, our library has a certain supplier that they have to buy from, which is why there was a discrepancy in the prices, but I still wasn't going to pay for a book I didn't damage. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Thanks all for your advice on this. I know I didn't cause the damage and it just bothered me more than anything to be accused of something that I know is false. They've put a block on my account and I really need some books for our history and science work. We've just completed a move, I'm up to my ears with boxes, my sister and her children are visiting and I have to research and purchase some affordable furniture and mattresses (sleeping and sitting on the floor currently), get ds2 up to date on his vaccines, and get his passport corrected and get visas for travel and now having to deal with my library is like the straw thats broken the camels back for me right now. I'm going to call one more time and try to get this resolved, but I kind of feel defeated. I had planned on volunteering for the Friends of the Library book sale this year, but now.. ugh, okay being spiteful I guess isn't going to help either. I just wish I had enough money to buy all the books I want so I wouldn't have to rely on the library so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodallmomma Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I had a similar thing happen to me as well. It's hard to say forget it when the library is such a key element in homeschooling. We have two local libraries we use. One is GREAT about letting me renew something for a 3rd and 4th time. The other loses everything I return! I'm always checking our library account only to find this particular library is claiming something is not returned. It's usually a video or cd-rom. What really drives me crazy is that when they finally do find the item, they still charge me the late fee up until the day I reported it returned. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeneralMom Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I'm actually worried about a similar thing. I took out the 1999 edition of WTM about a year ago and returned it in perfect condition. Took it back out about a month ago and the first time I opened it the first 150 pages fell out in a clump and it has all been underlined and highlighted. I have no way of proving that I didn't do it because I didn't check the books condition before taking it out. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I guess I am so fortunate that I know all of our librarians and library techs so well. They've always believed me when I've told them anything. This sounds so frustrating and I totally get how this "one more thing" can be unbearable in an already overwhelming situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 The exact same thing happened to me, except they even went so far as to tell me that when I returned it to XYZ branch is was damaged. I never go to XYZ branch. I have my books sent to the library by our house, and that is where I pick them up and return them. I did drive to XYZ branch to talk to the manager about it. She was a complete witch about it. I told her, "I did not damage this book, nor did I return it to this branch, as your note stated I did. I will not take responsibility for this, and I will not pay your inflated price for it. I will not pay $24.99 for a book that can be had on Amazon for $12.99. In addition, you said that this book is unusable, but this is merely cosmetic damage." The woman was very snotty and said, "Well, I guess if you claim you didn't damage, I have to believe you, right?" I said, "I don't care whether you believe me or not, I just want you to remove the charge from my account." I am not normally so assertive! The charge was removed. Btw, our library has a certain supplier that they have to buy from, which is why there was a discrepancy in the prices, but I still wasn't going to pay for a book I didn't damage. Tara Wow. That's absurd. The librarian actually said "Well, I guess if you claim you didn't damage, I have to believe you, right?" :001_huh:. I think my response would have been similar to yours. And I would probably have added something about not appreciating that a perfect stranger is accusing me of lying. Good grief, the nerve of some people. I mean, what was her reason for *not believing you? Why wouldn't she assume that since you took the time and effort to come talk to her about it, that you were telling the truth? That's just rude, what she said. Got under my skin, it did... Let's hope she was just having a bad day, and she's not always like that. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I'm actually worried about a similar thing. I took out the 1999 edition of WTM about a year ago and returned it in perfect condition. Took it back out about a month ago and the first time I opened it the first 150 pages fell out in a clump and it has all been underlined and highlighted. I have no way of proving that I didn't do it because I didn't check the books condition before taking it out. :grouphug: I think when you return it, you should make sure to talk to a librarian. Explain that the book was in this condition when you brought it home, and that you hadn't noticed before you left the library. Seems more likely you won't have trouble if you can get her to note your account or something right there, rather than after they accuse you of the damage, you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Was this book was an interlibrary loan? If so that would explain a good many things. If the other library says there is water damage, they are probably charging your library for it. If your library doesn't pay, then they can't get more books from that library, and it becomes a messy situation. As others have mentioned the charge is more than the list price as there is the cost of processing and staff time, etc. I agree that you should insist on receiving the book if you are paying for it though. One issue you may run into though is that they might not be able to order a new copy until the book is paid for and then they might need to keep the original book until the new one comes in. Each library has varying procedures. Sorry, forgot to answer this question. No, it's not an interlibrary loan, our library system spans through a couple of different counties up to an hour away. I believe its 8 or 9 libraries total, any of these use the same library card. When you put a book on hold it can come from any of them, you just pick up at a location you choose. None of the libraries are very big, so it is very frequent that books come from the other libraries. I will ask to keep the book, although I really don't want it. Maybe I can pass it on to someone else at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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