State tests vs. standardized tests

[Tidbits of Learning]

My children do not have to take the state tests, but I would like for them to take them so I can see how we are doing. However, another homeschool mom today told me not to take the "state" tests but to do standardized testing b/c she had been told that if your child takes the state test and doesn't pass it that they will make you put your child back in public school.

This seems like one of those horror stories that gets passed around as truth. I looked up the state test and downloaded a practice test. It looks easy and they let them use calculators and a math reference sheet. So I see no reason that my child wouldn't pass the state test. In ps if they don't pass the test, then they get another chance at it in like 6 weeks called remediated testing or something after some practice test classes. I don't see why it would be any different for a homeschool child that doesn't pass on the first try.

Anyway, I thought I would post on here and see if there really is a reason why I should do a standardized test with a homeschool group over doing the state test.

[GoVanGogh]

The Texas state tests are available, free, on-line.

 

If you want to do standardized testing, like Iowa Tests of Basic Skills, you do not necessarily need to go through a homeschool group. If you (or someone you know) has a college degree, you (or they) can get certified to administer the test through Bob Jones. (Probably others, but that is the one I went through.)

 

You said you are mainly interested to see how your children are doing. I would think it depends on your state - or which state test you would use. They are certainly not created equal!

The Texas state tests are insanely easy. My 2nd grade son missed only 1 question on the 5th grade science test. I would like to think that means he is brilliant, but I think it is more a reflection on the test. I trust the results of the ITBS more than our state's test!

[Ellie]

However, another homeschool mom today told me not to take the "state" tests but to do standardized testing b/c she had been told that if your child takes the state test and doesn't pass it that they will make you put your child back in public school.

This seems like one of those horror stories that gets passed around as truth.

That does sound like an urban legend. She might need to read your state law again (assuming she read it in the first place). Which state is it, BTW?

[Matryoshka]

In my state, it's illegal for anyone that's not an enrolled ps student to take the state tests - homeschooled, private schooled, whatever. Of course, you can still have the kids take an old test, just not officially take the current test. If you have them take an old test, there's no record of it anyway.

[Tidbits of Learning]

We are in Louisiana. The state test is the LEAP test. My kids just came out of public school this year so my child took the ILEAP and ITBS at school last year in 3rd grade. She did well.

The state test is available to all students of Louisiana. There is a person to contact to arrange for your child to take the LEAP test.

I thought about buying the CAT test from CLP. I thought about the PASS test. It just seems the easiest would be to call the BOE person in charge of homeschoolers taking the LEAP.

Also if I ever want to put her back in public school she would have to have a passing test on file or if I wanted to change from private school option to home study option she would have to have a LEAP on file.

I hadn't really worried too much about it so far, but the time to make a decision is coming up. They told me to call in January. So I either have to decide to do state test or buy a test and administer it or have her take a test with a homeschool group.

I am a little concerned with the amount of homeschoolers that are so against our state test. I don't know a large amount of local homeschoolers, but those that I have spoken to all advise against the state test. They don't really have a particular reason except the one lady who is convinced if you fail that your child has to go back to public school. Do most homeschoolers that aren't required to take their state test opt to do private testing or administer a standardized test themselves?

[Matryoshka]

Do most homeschoolers that aren't required to take their state test opt to do private testing or administer a standardized test themselves?

 

Last year I had my kids tested for the first time - they took the Stanford administered by a hsing group.

[TracyR]

I don't see any reason for you to have them take state testing when your homeschooling. Unless your curriculum is set up towards taking those tests. I don't know about other states but the state testing here in PA is insanely hard that's its unreal.

Your better off using standardized testing. You will get a REAL look at what your children are doing. The scores for state testing come back and are so confusing that they really don't make any sense whatsoever. If you use standardized testing it will break things all down so you can see where they are excelling and where they need help in certain areas. You will not get this with the state testing.

 

You really can't pass or fail state testing. Not sure who was telling you that they have to pass or that they can fail. They either score below basic , basic, average , above average etc. There is no pass or fail. I'm sure its an urban legend that could be going around. PA is one of the strictest homeschooling states and they can not do that. What they can do is put your children in school if they see no progress or you are not complying with the law.

 

Really in the end its up to you. If they take state testing then the school district gets the credit for what your children do. If you have them take standardized testing then you get the credit for their accomplishments.

If we weren't cyberschooling I would use standardized tests again in a heart beat.

Edited December 23, 2009 by TracyR

[Tidbits of Learning]

I don't see any reason for you to have them take state testing when your homeschooling. Unless your curriculum is set up towards taking those tests. I don't know about other states but the state testing here in PA is insanely hard that's its unreal.

Your better off using standardized testing. You will get a REAL look at what your children are doing. The scores for state testing come back and are so confusing that they really don't make any sense whatsoever. If you use standardized testing it will break things all down so you can see where they are excelling and where they need help in certain areas. You will not get this with the state testing.

 

You really can't pass or fail state testing. Not sure who was telling you that they have to pass or that they can fail. They either score below basic , basic, average , above average etc. There is no pass or fail. I'm sure its an urban legend that could be going around. PA is one of the strictest homeschooling states and they can not do that. What they can do is put your children in school if they see no progress or you are not complying with the law.

 

Really in the end its up to you. If they take state testing then the school district gets the credit for what your children do. If you have them take standardized testing then you get the credit for their accomplishments.

If we weren't cyberschooling I would use standardized tests again in a heart beat.

 

If they score approaching basic, then they are considered not on grade level and will be held back a grade regardless of their "grades" on their report card. You have a spring testing, then a summer remediation testing, and then an appeals process if your child fails to reach basic.

That is what I mean by pass or fail. If they don't have the score for basic in all of the tested subjects (math, language arts, science, and social studies), then they will fail the 4th grade. You can actually pass or fail the 4th grade based on this one test.

I am just weighing my options. I haven't spoken to the DOE person to find out the particulars of using the state test vs. what other tests are recognized by our state as being acceptable.

[Samiam]

In my state, HS's do have the option to take the yearly test at their public school for free.

Most DON'T utilize this option, for several reasons:

1. First, it's not the most comfortable test taking situation for a homeschool student, walking into this huge strange building, sitting in a room full of students who all know each other.

2. Annual testing is one way to meet our state law obligations for HSing, but if you take it at the school, the results are automatically sent to the school district, good, bad, ugly, indifferent. If you do private testing, and let's just say the child did not due well, you could re-test at a later date and send the best results in. Plus you don't not have to actually send the scores in, but only a letter signed by a certified teacher who administered the test that says the student scored satisfactorily.

3. Your child's test score does count for or against the schools overall score....why help them boost their score?

4. Most HS'ers just want to stay far away from public schools, so why utilized this option.

[Matryoshka]

Perhaps it would help to explain the rationale behind my state's decision not to allow non-ps students to take the state test.

 

1. It is aligned with the state curriculum, which is what it's designed to test. If you are using a curriculum even slightly different from the state curriculum (which virtually every hs and private school student does), then it renders the score of the test utterly meaningless, as the student may not have studied the material on the test that year. The tests are ostensibly not designed to test the student as much as the efficacy of the school in teaching the state curriculum to the students. If a certain number of students in a school fails, the school is deemed failing. This is why the schools are so panicked to teach to the test.

 

2. It then follows that if a bunch of people who are not hewing exacly to the state curriculum take the test, it may negatively impact the state's score under NCLB, and possibly their level of federal funding. We can't have that. :)

 

The one that applies to you is #1. Even if your state allows it, if you're not following the state curriculum exactly, the test results are meaningless. Better to take the IOWA, Stanford, or CAT test if you want to test.

[Haiku]

I am a little concerned with the amount of homeschoolers that are so against our state test.

 

I don't think it's surprising that people who have chosen to educate outside the government system don't want that system testing their children.

 

Tara

[Krista in LA]

I live in LA too. And yes, you can fail the state testing here but I have never heard that they can make you send your child to school if they fail. Then again, I don't know of any homeschoolers who do the LEAP. I have never had my kids take the LEAP although when we were getting information about signing my dd up for high school this year, I was told she would have to take it. Since she had taken the Iowa and did very well on it, they didn't end up making her take the LEAP though. I choose to use the Iowa test every year for my kids because I would rather they be compared to a national norm rather than to the state test. I'm sure you know that they teach very specifically to the LEAP all year and spend lots of time reviewing for it. I didn't see any reason to have my kids compared to that group as we don't do school like that. I test through Bob Jones but I know there's a homeschooling group that gives the Stanford test too. If you happen to live in the NW part of the state and need help finding some testing, PM me.

[Tidbits of Learning]

Thanks everyone for clarifying the differences in the state test and standardized testing. I never had to take state tests as a child and I believe we always took the IOWA test in private school. I am from Georgia.

I guess my main concern is if she had to return to school for any reason would her not having taken the LEAP be an issue?

I decided to homeschool over the summer and had sent my letter of intent to her old elementary school. Over the summer, the elementary school registered at the next school and I got calls from the truancy office the first week b/c she wasn't at the new school. I took care of it and had to call a person at the BOE who was not so nice and was in fact rude. She was very specific that the private school option was not an approved school by Louisiana. Now, I am unsure what approved means other than whether or not you will have to test to return to public school. The other option is home study. At both the elementary school and on the phone with the BOE lady, they stressed to call another lady when LEAP time came around. They said we needed to take the LEAP.

It is very confusing. The homeschoolers say to take one of the other recommended tests. The school and BOE says to take the LEAP.

I thought about doing both the CAT and the LEAP. I am confused as to whether it would be hurting my child later to not take the LEAP test now.

Does the BOE just say these things to get you to test?

Edited December 23, 2009 by OpenMinded

[Tidbits of Learning]

I live in LA too. And yes, you can fail the state testing here but I have never heard that they can make you send your child to school if they fail. Then again, I don't know of any homeschoolers who do the LEAP. I have never had my kids take the LEAP although when we were getting information about signing my dd up for high school this year, I was told she would have to take it. Since she had taken the Iowa and did very well on it, they didn't end up making her take the LEAP though. I choose to use the Iowa test every year for my kids because I would rather they be compared to a national norm rather than to the state test. I'm sure you know that they teach very specifically to the LEAP all year and spend lots of time reviewing for it. I didn't see any reason to have my kids compared to that group as we don't do school like that. I test through Bob Jones but I know there's a homeschooling group that gives the Stanford test too. If you happen to live in the NW part of the state and need help finding some testing, PM me.

I pm'd you.

[Heather in WI]

We start standardized testing in the third grade. I think it helps the children get used to taking these kind of tests and I like getting the outside feedback that I'm not completely screwing them up. :D

 

We use the EXPLORE test.

[swimmermom3]

My children had previously used the Oregon state test and the Stanford test in both public and private schools. When we moved to home schooling, we used the CAT alongside our state test. Oregon allows us to go to the district office and test for free. My personal experience is that the CAT is extremely easy. I know several students that have tested in the 99th percentile. The children involved wouldn't typically be considered gifted. I use the tests both to satisfy state requirements and to focus our curriculum for the next year. With a 99th percentile score, there's no area to focus on.

 

The state test is in agreement with my assessment of my son's performance. It is more difficult than the CAT but it also isn't a nationally normed test and doesn't meet our state hs requirements. I appreciate that we are also able to test in science. Student's scores are ranked Below, Meets, Exceeds. This leaves the Stanford test for us. It's just more difficult for me to find someone to administer it. IMO, Stanford is the most challenging.

[....]

Does anyone know a link to the free Texas test that was mentioned earlier?

[Krista in LA]

I guess my main concern is if she had to return to school for any reason would her not having taken the LEAP be an issue?

...

I took care of it and had to call a person at the BOE who was not so nice and was in fact rude. She was very specific that the private school option was not an approved school by Louisiana. Now, I am unsure what approved means other than whether or not you will have to test to return to public school. The other option is home study. At both the elementary school and on the phone with the BOE lady, they stressed to call another lady when LEAP time came around. They said we needed to take the LEAP.

It is very confusing. The homeschoolers say to take one of the other recommended tests. The school and BOE says to take the LEAP.

I thought about doing both the CAT and the LEAP. I am confused as to whether it would be hurting my child later to not take the LEAP test now.

Does the BOE just say these things to get you to test?

 

They can make not taking the LEAP an issue, but at worst, they would just make her take it before enrolling her. I found that they accepted my dd's Iowa scores rather than requiring her to take the LEAP. As long as you keep homeschooling, there are no requirements to test.

 

As for the private school option, it is a valid choice for homeschooling in LA and is in fact the only option that I've ever known anyone to choose. The state considers you a private school. No testing is required at all. However if you want to qualify for TOPS scholarships, you need to use the home study option which goes through the school district and I believe does require LEAP testing when you get to high school. Don't ever expect anyone from the schools to be nice or supportive of homeschooling. I have found several people who were very considerate and helpful, but don't expect it, ever.

[Bee]

My school district offered my child the opportunity to take the state tests for several years but I always turned them down and used standardized tests instead. I didn't want dd going into a strange environment and feeling pressured to do well on tests she hadn't been prepped for. I know my district prepares the children for the tests and I didn't want my dd at a disadvantage. In NY we can give some tests at home, which is what I have always done.

 

If you decide to test at all, be aware that the tests often follow a standardized,textbook curriculum. Last year dd did poorly on the math portion because we didn't follow a textbook curriculum but only focused heavily on decimals and percents and dd said most of the questions were geometry. Now I know that, I don't put as much stock in any of those tests (and yeah, I'll be teaching to the test in those years that testing is required).

[Laura in STL]

We chose to do a national normed test over the state test. I'm not really even sure what our options are in Missouri for taking the state test, but I know the state test is heavily based on state standards. Since we don't use those standards as a basis for instruction, I don't think the state test would necessarily be a good indicator of achievement for us. I think your choice would depend partly on whether or not you follow your state standards in your homeschooling.

 

My son took the Stanford Achievement Test last year in third grade for the first time. We took the test with a homeschool group, and my son actually enjoyed the experience and seeing so many homeschoolers gathered together.

[Guest mommyuv3kids]

As long as you keep homeschooling, there are no requirements to test....As for the private school option, it is a valid choice for homeschooling in LA and is in fact the only option that I've ever known anyone to choose. The state considers you a private school. No testing is required at all.

 

 

Is it possible to switch from the home study to the private school option instead of renewing my home study application? Also, does the "private school" have to have more than one student as I only hs my one 10 year old son???

 

Thanks,

Shelley

[Laura Corin]

Does anyone know a link to the free Texas test that was mentioned earlier?

 

We used to use them. We later used the UK tests as we wanted to align with the UK system.

 

Laura

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

If they score approaching basic, then they are considered not on grade level and will be held back a grade regardless of their "grades" on their report card. You have a spring testing, then a summer remediation testing, and then an appeals process if your child fails to reach basic.

That is what I mean by pass or fail. If they don't have the score for basic in all of the tested subjects (math, language arts, science, and social studies), then they will fail the 4th grade. You can actually pass or fail the 4th grade based on this one test.

I am just weighing my options. I haven't spoken to the DOE person to find out the particulars of using the state test vs. what other tests are recognized by our state as being acceptable.

 

That's funny. In my state, Virginia, a bunch of parents legallyopted their elementary aged children out of the math portion of the SOLs to protest the county's use of Everyday Mathematics and to avoid giving the school credit for the parent's afterschooling success. In no way did this affect their child's grades or ability to pass onto the next grade.

[Krista in LA]

Is it possible to switch from the home study to the private school option instead of renewing my home study application? Also, does the "private school" have to have more than one student as I only hs my one 10 year old son???

 

Thanks,

Shelley

 

Sure you could switch. I'm guessing you would have to notify the school district/board that you will no longer be doing the home study option and basically pull them out of that program like you would pull them out of school. Then at the beginning of the school year, you send a letter to the state DOE informing them that your school (you make up a name for the school) will be starting on such and such a date, you have 1 student enrolled, and you will have at least 180 days of school. You don't have to have more than 1 child to do the private school option. If you send them a copy of the letter, they will stamp the extra one and mail it back to you for your records. I think they stamp "approved" on it, but there really is no approval process as all that is required is sending them the letter. That's it, then you just go about your business and then each year at the beginning of the school year, send them another letter.

 

ETA: They will probably try to discourage you from leaving the home study program and might even tell you that you can't switch. I believe the schools get money for the home study students so they want to keep you in the system. Ignore them.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Krista in LA