What to do when your parents are in financial crisis (long)

[teachermom2834]

I don't know what to do, how to deal with this, or where to go for help.

 

My MIL is in crisis. We do not feel close to her but we are all she has even though we live 12 hours apart. She is annoying. She is difficult to have around. She has issues with compulsive spending/ debt/ hoarding, etc. Makes questionable financial decisions. She raised dh on her own and it was fine. Not great, but she tried. So basically she has issues that make a relationship difficult but she has done nothing to warrant severing a relationship or anything like that.

 

She lost her job and had no savings and tons of debt. She did find work after several months but it is a one year appointment. She is not making enough money to pay her bills.

 

I am up worrying at 4:00 am that the bottom is very close to falling out and I have no idea what to do. Her home (which she refinances every time there is any equity) is in horrible condition and she couldn't just sell it. It probably should be condemned and might be if anyone who had been inside reported her. We have tried to get help for the hoarding in the past and there is just NO WAY she is going to seek help for that.

 

She probably has 15-20 credit cards with large balances that she pays minimum on.

 

What happens when the bottom falls out here? We cannot afford to support her. We could swing a few hundred dollars a month by cutting back kids' activities but it would never be enough to get her through. She can't move in with us. We don't have the room, can't afford it, and absolutely could not have her hoarding in our home.

 

I don't think she is just going to need short term help. I don't think there is anyway she is going to continue to stay afloat the rest of her life.

 

So what happens? If MIL loses her home she will have no where to go. Then what will we do? Drive the kids 12 hours to go visit Grandma at a homeless shelter? Even if I got a full time job and totally changed our lives I don't think we could ever support her fully.

 

What do we do? Has anyone been through this? To support her as a member of our household would require me going to work, kids going to school/ daycare, quitting all their sports, etc. We would have to go from making it with a few extras to absolute poverty level for our family (4 dc).

 

Dh has worked so hard to make a life for his family outside the example his mother set for him. We have worked so hard to have a stable life and provide for our children. I don't know what would happen in our marriage if she was the third adult in the home. I don't feel like we can compromise our entire life because of her issues and problems she has brought on herself. But she can't be out on the street.

 

Has anyone been here? We can't be alone in this.

 

Thanks,

Marie

 

Edit: I realize I posted on the curriculum board and don't know how to fix that. It's 4 am and I'm upset and I'm just going to go to bed now.

Edited November 28, 2009 by teachermom2834
wrong board

[Pippen]

I'm sorry you are having to go through this. It's tough watching family members ruin their lives. I had a parent that was in a mess with a business deal once and it caused me no end of worry. I handled the other parent recently getting married for the 5th time well though. :001_huh:

 

Since her collapse seems inevitable, I think you and your dh--and other siblings if there are any--need to sit down and formulate priorities and a plan, including how far any of you are willing to go if at all--to help her without putting your own families at risk.

 

IMO one of the best things to do would be do a family intervention to haul her to a financial counselor ASAP. Would she be willing to go through the Dave Ramsey materials or classes?

[....]

She needs to get an attorney and file for bankruptcy. As a huge Dave Ramsey fan, I almost never advocate bankruptcy. But, it looks like she might need protection from herself. Bankruptcy will prevent her from getting another credit card, house mortgage, etc. She's going to have to downsize into an affordable apartment. Depending on her exact financial situation, the court trustee will probably force her to relinquish some of her stuff and pay back a percentage of her credit card debt.

 

Good luck with this one - and you're not alone. Our parents' generation were absolute frickin idiots with money. My parents and my in-laws are all massively in debt, in their late 50's, no retirement money, no HEALTH insurance, and just all-around pathetic financially. Our in-laws are always hitting us and my husband's brother up for cash. I don't feel sorry for those people. One set of parents refuses to get a real job and the other set ran up $100,000 in credit card bills and they have 4 cars.

 

How irritating. Good luck to you and your husband, though...

[ConnieB]

You don't say what State MIL lives in....but realize that almost every state has FREE help for hoarders. Obviously, they need to agree to be helped, but perhaps there are also free resources to help her get to that point. This is a disease just as alcoholism is a disease....it's just not quite as openly discussed. But, just as with alocholism, she must want help.

 

As for her financial situation, hard as it may sound, you and your DH must do what is right for YOUR family.....your children. Realize too that most hoarders are very good at pulling their bacon out of the frying pan at the very last moment......sounds like she's done it in the past and will likely keep doing it. When she fails, then she can sell her hoardes. Yes, I know you're probably thinking she'll never do that....but most serious hoarders eventually have to because they do get themselves into serious financial straights....so they sell, fix their finances and then start hoarding all over again! In fact, I'd venture a guess that your MIL already has done this without you knowing it. It's a part of the disease.

 

How do I know about this disease....my sister is and always will be a hoarder. She got help pretty much because we forced it on her and was doing well for many years, but she has "fallen off the wagon" in recent years....just like an alcoholic who is sober for years suddenly starts drinking, she now hoardes again. But now she is sneaky about it....my brother found out that she actually rented a storage space and hired workers to move her excess into the storage space when he and his family were coming to visit for a few days!!! Think about the alcoholic who hides rum in the back of the closet, outside in the shed, etc.

 

There is no easy solution to her problem, but you need to remember that it is HER problem. Encourage, support, love....but do not turn your children's lives upside down for her unwillingness to get help. If she were an alcoholic and drank her way into homeless/joblessness would you allow her to live with you without getting help? I doubt it, so don't think of this any differently. In this case she has plenty of assets to help her finances, unlike drunks who usually drink it all away and have nothing left. Seek counseling for YOU and DH to learn how to deal with such a person and how to encourage her to want and get the help she needs...without being pulled into the abyss with her.

[Sasha]

I'm sorry. :hug: We help support my mother financially and it can be stressful--it's almost like having another child but one who lives 30 miles away. But my mom contributes in other ways and it evens out.

 

In your situation--and I'll preface this by saying that I'm a selfish person--I wouldn't go back to work or expect my kids to make sacrifices in terms of lessons just to support MIL. Life's too short and my family focus is on myself, dh, and the kids. If I can help others without really putting myself into a bind I'm happy to but my main focus is on giving my kids a well-rounded education (including music lessons and other extracurriculars), not supporting someones credit card habit.

 

I understand that it's easier said than done--your principles seem petty when your MIL's house is foreclosed on. But it you aren't terribly close and she doesn't seem to get it I wouldn't completely change my life to help.

 

I agree that perhaps bankruptcy is the only option for her (and if her house is condemnable maybe that would be healthier for her in the long run). If she can't/won't get help for her hoarding and financial decisions then you can't be expected to do more for her than she's willing to do herself.

[Pippen]

If she can't/won't get help for her hoarding and financial decisions then you can't be expected to do more for her than she's willing to do herself.

 

I agree with this. Unless she is willing to take forward steps herself, you would be throwing money away in helping her.

[Carol in Cal.]

Have you thought about giving help rather than cash?

Can you pay for a room for her to live in, and pay the rent directly yourself? Can you sign her up for a CSA and pay for that?

Can you help her move?

 

Those kinds of payments are genuine help, but don't involve entrusting her with cash that she might very well mishandle. I would think very hard about how to do that with her--it's a good balance of not taking her in but still making sure that once she loses her house she does not land on the street.

[Julie in MN]

You know, there is a lot of help out there for someone who has nothing. I wouldn't worry until you have reason to worry. Meanwhile she has available things like bankruptcy, food shelves, utility assistance, and more. My gmil sold her home & gave away the money to her kids (which was about like throwing it out the window), so basically walked away with nothing, and I was worried that she'd regret that. However, it was quite an eye opener to see that she then qualified for so much help in the community. She even got free diapers and nutrition supplements and cleaning help. She got meals on wheels, grocery delivery, and more. We truly are a nation of givers, and your mil could potentially benefit more if she has nothing.

 

Maybe you can find a good social worker to work with mil. If she's a senior, then there should be some social work network in place in her community.

 

Julie

[HSMom2One]

Have you thought about giving help rather than cash?

Can you pay for a room for her to live in, and pay the rent directly yourself? Can you sign her up for a CSA and pay for that?

Can you help her move?

 

Those kinds of payments are genuine help, but don't involve entrusting her with cash that she might very well mishandle. I would think very hard about how to do that with her--it's a good balance of not taking her in but still making sure that once she loses her house she does not land on the street.

 

Like others have mentioned, there may be time before she reaches the place that it is needed, but I also agree with Carol in what she is saying here. My thoughts and attitude coincide with the commandment to "honor your father and mother". No matter how old they are and no matter how challenging it is, it is still a commandment. That doesn't mean that you have to put your family at risk to do it, but we must find ways to honor our parents.

 

Your mil may not have done the best in raising your dh, but she did HER best, what she knew how to do at the time -- and he is her ds. I would encourage you to choose the road of compassion.

 

There are ways to honor parents yet not help them in an unhealthy way if they are suffering from bad choices. I believe it would be better to err on the side of love and mercy than to be harsh and judgmental, resenting the fact that she is in a powerless situation (which is what human nature wants to do in these types of scenarios).

 

My heart goes out to you as you deal with this unpleasant task, but I do believe there are lessons to learn for everyone in the family when we choose to be compassionate.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Heidi]

"Drive the kids 12 hours to go visit Grandma at a homeless shelter?"

 

I'm not seeing the problem here. She's a grown woman and has made really poor decisions. I'm all for natural consequences. Its not like something out of her control happened to put her in this situation, otherwise, yes, apply the mercy. Giving her crutches to support immature behavior helps no one. Point her in the direction of a financial counselor, or whatever help might be appropriate, and wish her the best of luck.

[momto2Cs]

This reminds me so much of my dad. He hoarded like crazy (I think growing up during the Great Depression did NOT help), had a filthy house, didn't eat right, and was in danger of losing everything. My brother, sister and I intervened, even though we are not close to him - he was always very "removed" from us emotionally. Anyhow, long story short, we helped him get into assisted living. He has his own small aprtment, but can eat in the dining hall, and they come in and clean once a week. We made him only choose the stuff he really needed and could fit in the new place.

 

He let his house go - it was repo'd, but at least he is no longer saddled with that debt since the bank is auctioning it off. (This is California, so I am not sure how it would work where you are).

 

He's doing a lot better now.

[kalanamak]

T

 

He's doing a lot better now.

 

 

While I'm glad this helped, and it often does, I would advise being cautious about sinking a chunk into some tenuous plans. I have known such "placed" parents to elope or to drink/hoard to the point they are evicted. You have to assess how rational she is, how reasonable she is, and if she has bottomed out enough to consider change.

 

It sounds horrible, but she may need to actually be homeless (she won't starve to death) to "get the point". I'd heard some pretty good stories about homelessness (my favourite was the beaten and abused wife who was under her work-at-home hubby's thumb, a rageful man who merely grunted at the children on their birthday, maybe, whose house burned and she ended up at a shelter. Hubby refused to come with them as he wanted to stand guard on his tools. While at the shelter, the dawn came up that other people didn't live with daily abuse, and after a chat with the shelter people, she moved to an abuse shelter, and finally got away from him.)

[Carol in Cal.]

It sounds horrible, but she may need to actually be homeless (she won't starve to death) to "get the point". I'd heard some pretty good stories about homelessness (my favourite was the beaten and abused wife who was under her work-at-home hubby's thumb, a rageful man who merely grunted at the children on their birthday, maybe, whose house burned and she ended up at a shelter. Hubby refused to come with them as he wanted to stand guard on his tools. While at the shelter, the dawn came up that other people didn't live with daily abuse, and after a chat with the shelter people, she moved to an abuse shelter, and finally got away from him.)

 

I'm so glad that this worked out well for your friend, but homeless women tend to be in quite a lot of physical danger. She is old, and this would be wrong.

 

The Bible says that if we don't take care of our families we are worse than unbelievers. That's really strong language, and I do take it seriously.

 

I don't think that being walked on is called for, and neither is destroying your whole life for this, but I do think that taking that injunction seriously is part of our obligations, and that we need to figure out a good way to do this without infinate sacrifice.

[teachermom2834]

Thank you so much for your responses.

 

I am a bit surprised. I was expecting everyone to say we need to take her in.

 

We gave her money for the first time this weekend. It was only $300 but it hurts us at the holidays and doesn't get her very far. (Her car broke down while she was here and we had to get her a rental to get her back to work so she wouldn't lose her job). It is unrealistic to think we can provide financial support without going under ourselves. We only have about 2 months expenses in an emergency fund ourselves so while we are making it we are only an illness or job loss away from crisis ourselves.

 

She was here over the weekend and doesn't think she needs any help and is happy with how things are. We are going to research counseling and help for her but we can't force her to do anything.

 

I feel like our hands are tied if she won't get help but I feel like we are responsible to make sure she is not on the streets.

 

Tough stuff. Thanks for listening.

 

Marie

[G5052]

Thank you so much for your responses.

 

I am a bit surprised. I was expecting everyone to say we need to take her in.

 

We gave her money for the first time this weekend. It was only $300 but it hurts us at the holidays and doesn't get her very far. (Her car broke down while she was here and we had to get her a rental to get her back to work so she wouldn't lose her job). It is unrealistic to think we can provide financial support without going under ourselves. We only have about 2 months expenses in an emergency fund ourselves so while we are making it we are only an illness or job loss away from crisis ourselves.

 

She was here over the weekend and doesn't think she needs any help and is happy with how things are. We are going to research counseling and help for her but we can't force her to do anything.

 

I feel like our hands are tied if she won't get help but I feel like we are responsible to make sure she is not on the streets.

 

Tough stuff. Thanks for listening.

 

Marie

 

My mom has a long history of behind-the-scenes mental issues, and it's worsened now by vascular dementia. There is no way I'd take her into our home. She would want to be perpetually in the spotlight, she's physically attacked several people (but is thankfully so frail that they got away), and she can't stand my DH. It would destroy our family. I believe in making sure that they're taken care of as part of honoring them and "taking care your household," but I also believe in "leave and cleave." Your first duty is to your immediate family. Some are able to take care of their parents at home, and some are not. Thankfully Mom is in assisted living, but she's perpetually "on notice" for her behavior and personal habits, and I'm very concerned about her finances. So I've already checked into the programs and state laws there for indigent elderly with mental issues, not because I want there for her, but because I just can't have her in our home.

[staceyobu]

There is so much help out there for people who need it. She can get assisted housing, food stamps, medicaid, etc. I would help her file to get government help rather than upend my own life and wind up in financial trouble myself.

 

Sounds like a rough, rough situation. :grouphug: