Can you tell me where Singapore is heading?

[snickelfritz]

I've been combining Singapore 1 and Saxon 2. Saxon was going to be the primary. So, I didn't buy the Singapore IG or many extras. I have textbook, workbook, and challenging word problems.

 

After using them, I've switched their usage positions. Singapore is turning out to be our primary and I'm fiddling with how to use Saxon. Maybe math meeting, facts practice, and occasional testing through units to see what she's missing/forgotten?

 

So,

 

1. memorizing math facts. We've been memorizing them in the order Saxon does it. Then we hit this regrouping to make 10's to add and subtract in Singapore and I started wondering which facts I should focus on her learning. Is she going to regroup to get (9 + 6) or is she going to memorize it? And should I do subtraction facts at the same time as addition?

 

2. If I had bought the IG, extra practice/intensive practice workbooks and/or the computer CD that comes with it.... would it make the Saxon unnecessary? Do they offer some consistent review of previous topics?

[HappyGrace]

:lurk5:

 

(Also at the same point (Sing 1 combined with other stuff)-thinking about just going Sing for the long haul. Ds6 can do the facts the Sing way-regrouping-but they're not memorized.)

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

...

1. memorizing math facts. We've been memorizing them in the order Saxon does it. Then we hit this regrouping to make 10's to add and subtract in Singapore and I started wondering which facts I should focus on her learning. Is she going to regroup to get (9 + 6) or is she going to memorize it? And should I do subtraction facts at the same time as addition?

 

2. If I had bought the IG, extra practice/intensive practice workbooks and/or the computer CD that comes with it.... would it make the Saxon unnecessary? Do they offer some consistent review of previous topics?

 

#1. I have never memorized facts as a child. I did regrouping. I was one of the fastest student in the class, and the one with less calculation errors, all through my math studies. I graduated as an industrial engineer and did math at the Masters level. So it has served me well.

I have taught the same thing to my two kids. MUS also teaches to think through the facts, but asks for mastery too. That means the kids have to reach a certain speed.

 

#2. There's not much review in Singapore. There are reviews two or three times per book. For many kids that's sufficient. If review is a big thing for you, you can always take one of the extra workbook and schedule it two weeks behind.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I am also using Singapore 1 as a primary and Abeka All about Numbers 1 (from 1980's) as a secondary math program with my ds6.5. I find that Singapore does a review section at the end of each unit. These are quite sufficient to see if the child is doing well or where the child has weak areas.

I actually like it so much better than doing the same thing over and over for a week and battling my child to finish the worksheets b/c it isn't challenging. I do like for my kids to memorize the math facts and the HIG's do tell you at what point the child should have their facts through this or that family down. They call them number bonds though.

I am doing a few minutes of flash cards a day and just reviewing it in everyday life.

ABeka memorizes the facts. So we are doing a bit of both. He understands the concept of the number bonds and why they equal instead of just memorizing them. I like regrouping as well, but also like for them to be fast at computing so we will continue this way. I am going to slow down before the regrouping and make sure my child has his facts to the 10 fact family down.

I am just focusing on getting up to the 10 fact family or number bond down so that he will do well with regrouping and really be able to do regrouping fast.

My girls learned regrouping in public school with Houghton Mifflin and it confused me at first as to why they weren't memorizing, but it works well for my middle dd and she does math fairly fast and she doesn't have past the 10 family totally memorized.

[Ummto4]

Erica, I never use S-pore and Saxon. But I'm using Math mammoth and alabacus (right start) method to teach 2nd grade son math and they use regrouping. Here I'll just answer your #1 question (regrouping vs memorizing).

 

I vote on regrouping. My son's terrible at memorizing. So I have to give him tricks. If you give your dd tricks, these trick can be expanded for higher decades. So talking about hitting two birds with one stone here.

 

We do addition separately from subtraction. And then drill the math fact and number relation using MEP math (select problems only).

 

HEre's our sequence for regrouping:

- Teach addition for under 20 with regrouping tricks. For each trick, expand it to include higher decades. E.g. 9+7 = 16. So 29+ 7 = 36. For manipulative, we use abacus. Math Mammoth pictorial approach (10-base block) and step by step regrouping problems from math mammoth are also good for cementing the concept.

-Teach short cut addition for e.g 29+11 and addtion with fives (e.g. 15 + 15).

- Teach subtraction for under 20 with regrouping tricks. Expand to higher decades.

- Use select problems from MEP math to get the child fluent for under 20 regrouping facts. MEP math is good for doing this because the questions are not boring . They focus on application and common sense and is very good in cementing the number relationship.

- Teach double digit mental addition/subtraction with regrouping. When we did the addition/subtraction with no regrouping, we've already done this. So this should be a piece of cake.

 

I'm very happy with my son's math ability with this kind of sequence both for regrouping and non regrouping addition/subtraction.

PS: we haven't yet finished all the regrouping sequence, but I've seen a good results.

 

HTH

Edited October 16, 2009 by mom2moon2

[SonshineLearner]

Hey there,

 

I tried to look up "regrouping" since I already ordered Singapore. One of my friends learned like this.... This isn't "new math", is it? It's something different besides.... I never did this... Now, I did do "casting nines" :-)

 

Carrie

[LunaLee]

Let me first preface by saying that I love Singapore it was a great program for my son at this age. The mental math that they teach is incredible and he uses it all the time. We just reached a point in 4a where they wanted him to make too much of a leap from the abstract to the concrete and he couldn't do it yet so we took a break and are about 1/3 of the way through Saxon 6/5. He's doing well with that, but we'll probably go back to Singapore when he's finshed the Saxon. I also might continue this cycle for the next few years.

 

We used strictly Singapore US edition for grades 2-4a and here is my "If I knew then what I know now..."

 

I don't worry about there not being enough concept review, ds was fine with that, I do, however, worry about the lack of math facts practice. I wrongly figured that if he understood the "concept" of multiplication and division, I didn't need to drill the facts. Wrong! Well at least with this particular child. As we started getting into factoring and fractions, this became a problem. So that's one of the reason I chose Saxon, the daily drill. And I'm really proud of him because he's gone from completing one of those pages in 10 min to under 5 since the end of July.

 

So to answer your questions:

 

1. I'm not sure it matters in which order you teach the math facts as long as you are doing it consistantly.

 

2. I personally don't think having the IG, EP, IP and computer program would give you that constant review like Saxon because all of those books are topical as well, so you don't get that mixed review that Saxon gives.

 

If you wanted to get rid of Saxon, you could still do facts practice with online worksheets or Mad Minutes and get a daily math review like Math Minutes, or Daily Math Practice by Evan Moor.

[ondreeuh]

no no no, it's not some weird fuzzy math concept. It's just a way to picture the addition or subtraction fact in your head.

 

To add 9+6, you just realize that 9 needs 1 more to make a 10. So you take one away from the six and add it to the nine, and now you have a ten and 5 ones (15). We practiced this with Unifix cubes. It's all explained well in the HIG (and I think it's a good investment of $16).

 

My son does all his addition/subtraction this way and he is very fast. We have never done flashcards. He is very much a "pictorial" learner though so he visualizes the problem and can see the answer in his mind.

[stripe]

Hey there,

 

I tried to look up "regrouping" since I already ordered Singapore. One of my friends learned like this.... This isn't "new math", is it? It's something different besides.... I never did this... Now, I did do "casting nines" :-)

 

Carrie

 

It's a legitimate technique that takes advantage of properties of real numbers, e.g. associative law that (a + b) + c = a + (b + c), which is why

you can "mix and match" to make it easier to visualize, say, 96 + 35, that you can take the 4 from 35 ( 35 = 4 + 31) and add to the 96 first, to get 100, and then add to get 131.

[Shelly in the Country]

1. memorizing math facts. We've been memorizing them in the order Saxon does it. Then we hit this regrouping to make 10's to add and subtract in Singapore and I started wondering which facts I should focus on her learning. Is she going to regroup to get (9 + 6) or is she going to memorize it? And should I do subtraction facts at the same time as addition?

 

2. If I had bought the IG, extra practice/intensive practice workbooks and/or the computer CD that comes with it.... would it make the Saxon unnecessary? Do they offer some consistent review of previous topics?

 

My personal opinion is that trying to supplement Singapore with Saxon JUST for math facts is absolute overkill. If you are concerned with learning math facts, that can be done with simple flash cards and drill sheets. I taught my kids the Singapore "making ten" method but I also drill them with flashcards and drill sheets (I used Calculadders). DD9 is now finishing up PM 5A and she has her math facts all down.

 

As for your second question, I don't know if they are necessary but they are certainly helpful. I use IP/CWP and the Singapore computer games. There is a lot of great practice in those computer games btw. IP is challenging in that it really requires your child to think through each concept in depth. I think it cements everything.

 

HTH

[Ali in OR]

I will also vote for the Singapore method of mental math. Kids need to know math facts very well for sums up to and including 10. If they happen to memorize the facts to 20, that won't hurt them. But if they know the Singapore method, they can quickly figure out 8+6 even if they have a momentary memory lapse. My expectation would be that they can answer immediately whichever method is used--so they need to get the "make a 10" process down so well that it is virtually instantaneous.

 

Singapore does not have the consistent review of other programs. We add in a little Horizons for this--I'm sure you could use Saxon as well. So for instance dd has been hitting a lot of multi-digit addition and subtraction review in Horizons while learning multiplication and basic fraction stuff in Singapore 4A. I think this is good for keeping skills sharp.

[StephanieZ]

I've been combining Singapore 1 and Saxon 2. Saxon was going to be the primary. So, I didn't buy the Singapore IG or many extras. I have textbook, workbook, and challenging word problems.

 

After using them, I've switched their usage positions. Singapore is turning out to be our primary and I'm fiddling with how to use Saxon. Maybe math meeting, facts practice, and occasional testing through units to see what she's missing/forgotten?

 

So,

 

1. memorizing math facts. We've been memorizing them in the order Saxon does it. Then we hit this regrouping to make 10's to add and subtract in Singapore and I started wondering which facts I should focus on her learning. Is she going to regroup to get (9 + 6) or is she going to memorize it? And should I do subtraction facts at the same time as addition?

 

2. If I had bought the IG, extra practice/intensive practice workbooks and/or the computer CD that comes with it.... would it make the Saxon unnecessary? Do they offer some consistent review of previous topics?

 

IMHO, you don't need any more materials for singapore outside of the ones you already have. . . The Text and the Workbook are the backbone. Anything else is gravy, but so long as the student is mastering the methods and problems in the text/workbook, you are good to go.

 

Fact memorization for singapore: this IS important and does need additional attention outside of the text/workbook. I advise that you simply pay attention to the sequence of facts in the Text (read ahead a week or two at all times) and memorize facts as they are presented (or a week or two ahead!). For instance, dd6 is in 2B. They just started 3x a week or so ago (maybe that was the end of 2A) and will be doing 4x soon. So, she spends 2-3 min each day doing the 3x and 4x and 3/ an 4/ "wrap-its" last week and this week. (I love wrap its!) She's way faster than she was a couple weeks ago and so we'll likely move on soon enough. Sometimes we use calculadders, triangle flash cards (love those), Peggy Kaye's games ideas, or other stuff. . .whatever. I just have "math drill - 5 min" as a separate daily check-off item for my dc's schooling from 1st - 3rd grade math (until they have the multiplication tables down). Easy, no worries.

 

(FWIW, both my olders did all the way through PM 1-6 and have moved on. dc #3 is now in 2B. Love Singapore!! Also, I do add Miquon for Gr1-3 but it is really just the gravy. It helps with fact practice and is fun and adds some new dimensions, but I doubt it is really vital.)

 

HTH

[Miss Marple]

IMHO, you don't need any more materials for singapore outside of the ones you already have. . . The Text and the Workbook are the backbone

:iagree:

 

I have used Singapore with 4 children (DS#1 through NEM4A; other 3 boys through PM6). We did not use another program (we did switch one child for a time, but went back to Singapore) and the boys always did fine on standardized tests (95-99 percentile). When moving to algebra, we switched because we wanted to be in the position to do concurrent math courses by 11th grade. IMO, Singapore is a very complete program - why complicate your life trying to do two programs? I suggest using the CD-roms from Singapore for fun practice, invest in some fun math/mind games, maybe do Math Mind Benders, etc. But the idea of trying to have a young child work through 2 math programs just boggles my mind (although I know it is a common practice).

[Strawberry Queen]

I'm just going to chime in with what I do for extra practice. I have the extra practice books for my dd in 4th. When I come across a section or concept that she could use more review on I just pick a few problems from the extra practice book. Then she'll do 4 extra problems a day for a few days or maybe 2 weeks to solidify the concept. I'll just highlight problems on various pages and she'll do them.

 

I also bought the computer games this year and I wish I had bought them earlier. The child can choose which questions to do. There are no automatic levels that you have to work through.(you know the ones that keep track and they *have* to go in order). My girls like these and will play them out of school time. Sometimes I have to really think how to do the questions in Vroot and Vroom (mostly at the milkbar).

 

BTW Singapore.com has a list of which facts have to memorized for which level. Just go on the forums there and ask Jenny. She's very helpful.

 

HTH

[cillakat]

IMO both are critical.

 

Singapore assumes both.....that you're doing work to memorize and regrouping efficiently. RightStart assumes both as well.

 

Katherine

[amsunshine]

Singapore does both the regrouping to "find the ten" and also drill. However, the drill is found in the HIG or the TG with its "mental math" drill pages in the back. I use all the supplements and find the IP has excellent practice for the regrouping method and also more challenging problem sets. The software from Singapore is not really "drill", but is more for reinforcing the concepts taught in the texts.

 

You may also find the tests books useful as they have cumulative reviews built in to each unit -- sort of a continual review of previous concepts.

 

HTH!

Edited October 18, 2009 by amsunshine
Ooops! I typed "IG" instead of "IP" in the third sentence!

[HappyGrace]

Strawberry Queen-do you happen to have a link to where on Singaporemath.com they have listed what facts you need to have memorized when?

 

Great thread-thanks!!!

[Josephine]

fyi

 

I bought the Tests book for 1B Stds. and there are cumulative tests included that you could use for review. There is a Test A and Test B for each chapter and then there is a cumulative Test A and Test B at the end of each unit that covers all units up to the current unit.

 

Josephine

[The Governess]

Singapore does both the regrouping to "find the ten" and also drill. However, the drill is found in the HIG or the TG with its "mental math" drill pages in the back. I use all the supplements and find the IG has excellent practice for the regrouping method and also more challenging problem sets. The software from Singapore is not really "drill", but is more for reinforcing the concepts taught in the texts.

 

You may also find the tests books useful as they have cumulative reviews built in to each unit -- sort of a continual review of previous concepts.

 

HTH!

 

I just discovered the mental math drills in my HIG this morning. It only took me 2 months to notice them! :D I think I am going to start each math lesson with one from now on.

 

And I second the tests, the cumulative tests would definitely be good for review purposes.

 

I had no idea there was software.... :001_huh: I have to go check on Singapore's website now!

[Spy Car]

Another vote for re-grouping. And then, once re-grouping is mastered memorizing while requiring the child to "justify" the answer. But no credit for an answer that can't be explained.

 

And practicing through math-games (Right Start or others).

 

I guess I see the "mental math" as somewhat akin to phonics in reading. Eventually everyone "sight reads" just as (hopefully) basic math facts eventually come automatically.

 

But better to have the process worked though the mind first, and the tools on hand to mentally "figure" a problem, like one can "sound-out" a strange word using phonics, rather than the starting point of either "math-facts" or word recognition being "memorization."

 

I dislike what I hear about Saxon and timed drill. It seems likely to produce stress and turn off children's minds. Some children may love to be timed and drilled. I read parents saying just that. But so many more posts of people beside themselves that their formerly math-loving students were now frustrated and hating the subject. It makes me question the method.

 

With Singapore. The Standards Edition HIGs are IMO vital and one would be missing a lot without them. Things one would not know they were missing, because one can "solve" the problems (or their child can) in the workbook. So you could think you've "got it." And not realize what you may be missing. Teachers in Singapore get a lot of training. The HIGs don't totally make up for it, but they help.

 

I'm also quite glad to have the Intensive Practice Books. We have the CWP stashed away, but aren't there yet.

 

Bill