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These are my recommendations:

 

Grammar:

K-1st – FLL

2nd – 8th – Rod & Staff

 

 

Spelling:

Rod & Staff

 

 

Writing:

Early Grades: Writing with Ease

After that: Classical Writing

 

 

Phonics:

Abeka Phonics Grade 1

 

 

Math:

Grades 1-3: Abeka

Grades 4-8: Rod & Staff

 

 

 

Latin:

Prima Latina

Latina Christiana I

Latina Christiana II

Henle Latin

 

 

 

History:

Grammar Stage: STOW & Activity Book

Logic Stage: Kingfisher serves as our spine, corresponding chapter(s) are read in STOW so all the kids have one book in common, add’l literature and non-fiction books to correspond with the week’s readings

 

 

Science:

Grades 1-5: A mix of things that I put together

Grades 6-8: PH Science with supplemental books

 

 

Wow ! Thanks ! lots to check out.

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Oh yes, some new things you might like to have a look at

 

Science: REAL Science Odyssey, Elemental Science

 

If you want a packaged SOTW curriculum with lots of picture books, that is in my sig.

 

Math: Math Mammoth is said to be a more independent version of Singapore Math. CLE is said to be a more independent version of Saxon.

 

Spelling: Simply Spelling, Rod and Staff, All About Spelling

 

I don't know if you have used Sonlight readers before, but we are enjoying the 2 Intermediate (we thought the readers before this level were "baby books" and hated them. lol) She can read above this level, but we have had some problems and are starting over with ramping up the rigor.

 

Thanks !! Lots to check out here too. We have always used the cores from Sonlight as additional / free reading, although I do rearrange them. Quince is reading through the reg. 2 now.

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We love Lively Latin here and also Song School Latin. If he needs a new challenge you can start learning Latin vocabulary early on and go back to the grammar when he is ready for it. There really isn't any grammar in SSL though and much of the vocabulary is immediately applicable to the life of the young child. It was a little too easy for my first grader who was reading at the time.

 

Next time I think I will use SSL for K, and a combination of Minimus and learning LL vocabulary in first and probably part of second grade. When ready we will start LL in earnest to get through the grammar. I am adding in some Ecce Romani for translation work but I don't really know how that is going to pan out.

 

Thanks, from what I have seen and read about Sing Song I think it would be to young for him. I am really wanting to go with Lively Latin. But might get Minimus too as everyone loves the mouse. ;-)

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Why not just use the suggestions in the WTM?

 

I'm wondering if the curriculum suggestions in the WTM were chosen by the author because they taught to her goals AND they fit her children well. What I mean is... perhaps one could still be a WTM-style homeschooler and have the same goals in each subject, but use a different curriculum because it's what fits *your* child best?

 

If you cover the same topics in the same subjects... could you still be considered a "strict" WTM homeschooler? Or do you have to use the author's actual curriculum suggestions?

 

There was a time when certain curricula weren't yet reviewed by Susan Wise Bauer, and so were not included in her book. Later they may have been added. Would that mean that the people who used it before the curriculum was recommended weren't "strict" WTMers... but... later they suddenly *were?*

 

Not sure if I'm communicating this clearly... also not meaning to be snarky.

:D

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I'm wondering if the curriculum suggestions in the WTM were chosen by the author because they taught to her goals AND they fit her children well. What I mean is... perhaps one could still be a WTM-style homeschooler and have the same goals in each subject, but use a different curriculum because it's what fits *your* child best?

 

If you cover the same topics in the same subjects... could you still be considered a "strict" WTM homeschooler? Or do you have to use the author's actual curriculum suggestions?

 

There was a time when certain curricula weren't yet reviewed by Susan Wise Bauer, and so were not included in her book. Later they may have been added. Would that mean that the people who used it before the curriculum was recommended weren't "strict" WTMers... but... later they suddenly *were?*

 

Not sure if I'm communicating this clearly... also not meaning to be snarky.

:D

 

I know many strict classical homeschooler that find other curricula of the same or similair style. I see nothing wrong with that. But the basis of rigorous latin, history, and literature are what matter to me.

 

Over the years since TWTM first came out, I have seen more and more people call themselves classical homeschoolers, but don't teach the 4 year rotation, some don't they study latin in any form, some don't read the classics.

 

I think to call your self classical you have to do those things. If not then you would be more electicly classical ?? I don't know the definition.

 

Just my two cents !!

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Over the years since TWTM first came out, I have seen more and more people call themselves classical homeschoolers, but don't teach the 4 year rotation, some don't they study latin in any form, some don't read the classics.

 

I think to call your self classical you have to do those things. If not then you would be more electicly classical ?? I don't know the definition.

 

Just my two cents !!

 

WTM is not the only resource on classical education. You can easily be considered a classical homeschooler without following the WTM recommendations. A 4-year (or any year) history rotation actually has nothing to do with classical education. It is a great way to organize information, but it is not strictly classical. Classical education should be language-rich, but that language could also be Hebrew or Greek or a modern language. The skills taught in classical education are primary, the subject matter and the way you organize it are secondary. I do agree with you that participating in the "Great Conversation" (reading classics) is a necessary part of a classical education.

 

We have to be careful to understand that WTM does not equal classical and vice versa. I think when some are talking about strict-WTM and some are talking about strict-classical, that is not necessarily the same thing, and it is getting confusing. :)

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Thanks !! Lots to check out here too. We have always used the cores from Sonlight as additional / free reading, although I do rearrange them. Quince is reading through the reg. 2 now.
He might like reading the books at http://tanglewoodeducation.com/bksrd.htm Those are what Emily read at that age. Thus after that the SL 2 Regular were "baby books" lol, not the step up I was expecting.
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Yes, I have the 1999, 2004 and 2009 versions. I am looking for personal opinons on the older and newer, not only grammar. But what do you love.

 

I have seen things like Lively Latin, Minimus, Classical Writing and tons more. I was hoping I could get some opinions is all.

 

Here's what we love:

 

PHONICS:

Phonics Pathways (PreK-1)

 

GRAMMAR:

I've modified FLL to use for 2nd grade.

R&S for 3rd up

 

WRITING:

Copywork and dictation K-3rd

Classical Writing 3rd and up

 

MATH

Singapore Math K-6

 

LATIN

Latin for Children starting in 4th

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The skills taught in classical education are primary, the subject matter and the way you organize it are secondary. I do agree with you that participating in the "Great Conversation" (reading classics) is a necessary part of a classical education.

 

 

 

I've heard that WTM is one version of Classical that is actually less rigid than "pure" classical, if you will. That is what I mean when I say WTM has *breathing room* for adaption.

 

I agree though that to be Classical you have to adhere to certain basics principles, and WTM definitely does that, IMO.

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perhaps one could still be a WTM-style homeschooler and have the same goals in each subject, but use a different curriculum because it's what fits *your* child best?

 

If you cover the same topics in the same subjects... could you still be considered a "strict" WTM homeschooler? Or do you have to use the author's actual curriculum suggestions?

 

 

:D

 

This is exactly what I mean. As long as *Whatever* curriculum you chose fits into the Classical method, then it's Classical IMO. WTM is one version of Classical, from what I understand, and I think as long as your methods/curriculum fit into that "realm" then you are considered a Strict Classical/WTM HS.

 

The author actually recommends SEVERAL curriculum that fit into the Classical arena, so I really don't understand why there is a discrepancy there. She's not prescribing ONE end-all-be-all curriculum that she happens to favor for her personal reasons. I think that's where the mix up is.

 

She basically says "Pick from one of these and you'll still be in the Classical realm". She also says she recommends them because she looked into them or has experienced them and in many cases will tell you her opinion on each and every one in the subject. Ex: IEW is great but focuses too much on style, so if you chose it just be aware of that, etc.

 

This is one of *6* writing curriculum that she recommends for grade 3!

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Also, I think where the frustration is, is where people will do Unschooling or just something very much outside the realm/purpose/method/intent of Classical and then come here and call themselves Classical/WTM because they read the book and include Latin.

 

This is not a dog against Unschoolers! (Here it comes...) I'm just saying it's very different from Classical, IMO. (My very good friend is an Unschooler and she would agree with me, so do NOT come to me about this people! :cursing: :mad: :boxing_smiley:)

 

I agree with the post about Latin not defining Classical either. Ben Franklin struggled with Latin and learned Spanish first, then French before even attempting Latin again. He said it was easier this way and recommended doing Spanish and French first. He also included German but I can't remember if it was before or after Latin.

Edited by ValkyrieMom
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just something very much outside the realm/purpose/method/intent of Classical and then come here and call themselves Classical/WTM because they read the book and include Latin.

 

 

I know a pile of homeschoolers who call themselves classical because they do all A Beka, no Latin, no great books... but use SOTW for history. :D

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Also, I think where the frustration is, is where people will do Unschooling or just something very much outside the realm/purpose/method/intent of Classical and then come here and call themselves Classical/WTM because they read the book and include Latin.

 

This is not a dog against Unschoolers! (Here it comes...) I'm just saying it's very different from Classical, IMO. (My very good friend is an Unschooler and she would agree with me, so do NOT come to me about this people! :cursing: :mad: :boxing_smiley:)

 

I agree with the post about Latin not defining Classical either. Ben Franklin struggled with Latin and learned Spanish first, then French before even attempting Latin again. He said it was easier this way and recommended doing Spanish and French first. He also included German but I can't remember if it was before or after Latin.

 

You should check out the Classical Unschoolers social group. Or do a google search for "Classical Unschooling" and see what comes up. Maybe most of us would be called Relaxed Classical by true unschoolers, but lots of people use the term (and the definition seems to fairly static.) What I "strew" is what is in the WTM (for the most part) and I do require *some* things (mostly because my 8 and 11yo ds are dyslexic and academics are very difficult for them.)

 

Just an example, I believe that all children should learn advanced grammar (including diagramming) but I don't necessarily think that means you have to use a grade-level workbook or text every year to reach that goal.

 

My 11yo is doing a grammar-based Spanish because he doesn't want to do Latin, which I accomodate. Because of this, though, he does have to study Latin roots as well.

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Well, hmm, I feel like a slacker after reading a few select recent threads here. However, I am not in the least bit, ask my children. We do hard work and lots of it. I have identified myself as a Classical Unschooler here recently because I thought the term loosely defined some of what we are doing. We mainly unschool in Pre-k and K, but we use materials. I read books, do puzzles, play with magnetic letters, playdough, etc. Not a formal curriculum, but I may throw in a workbook that doesn’t need to be finished as well.

For K, it seems like we are unschooling in a sense. Last year we loosely used materials, and we mostly read the books for phonics, did a handwriting book, and used various math resources…I was unhappy with the curriculum I chose so we ended up doing math on the computer, using a toy clock playing games etc. It was better than just a workbook. I see how unschooling can work, but you need to work at it.

My oldest dd has unschooled science almost all of her life, because she has a natural interest. I also see how it can work when the child is actually leading and creating her own studies as well, but there needs to be a strong interest that exists. I may gently lead her by buying certain books and giving her a nudge. But she follows the WTM method on her own, she goes to the library and checks out books on a topic. She does experiments and drawings on her own. This year we are trying to do some NOEO science, so we will see how that goes.

I tend to use the term unschool because of our, or my relaxed attitude to some of our workbooks. With the older children, I do not require certain workbooks to be completed. There are others that must be done. Spelling and vocabulary, handwriting and math must all be finished every year. Spanish, art, history, and science, many of these are done together and I am not overly concerned if we do not finish. Writing and reading with discussion must be done and on a regular basis. Piano is something we do here at home, without any formal lessons from an outside teacher. We should do it more often, but we have been running around doing so many things since the start of this year, it’s been hard to fit it in. I also want to add in Violin for the younger kids who have expressed an interest.

 

I am very busy with four children, so we do cut corners when we can. I still consider myself a strict classical homeschooler of sorts. We have been loosely following TWTM since we started; I also use some of CM’s methods because they seem to fit our family. I suppose that the term eclectic fits as well, but the two main and guiding sources are WTM/CM.

I believe in the power of the great books when it comes to strengthening the mind, it was a catalyst to my education when I was young. I had an interest in the classics and decided that I would borrow the books from my grandmothers bookshelf, and stay up all night reading them.

 

We are not doing Latin, (instead, we are doing roots) mainly because I thought it would be too much for my oldest dd. With my oldest we are going to follow the classical stages but we are going to wait a little longer before fully entering into the logic stage. She struggles with learning English, all of her language arts skills take much longer to master than the other children. I think people who have right brained children have a hard time following TWTM as it is written. We need to make exceptions and follow along at a slower pace, sometimes even using things that others would not. We have a harder time because we need to reinvent the wheel. Many of us tried to do it the way it was described in the book, only to fail miserably and beat our heads against the wall. LOL. Having said that, I still think that the classical language arts method of reading, narrating and copywork have helped my visual dd to improve exponentially and I see her progressing very well in the language arts area. We just needed to take a slower pace and use more picture books in the younger years.

 

Before I go on and on, I should stop myself, and get back to my HS mom duties. There is so much to do all the time. Yes, hardly ever a slacker moment around this house! I do come here and call myself a Classical/WTMer even though I see the value of adding in other methods to make it work for my family.

 

Hope this made sense!

 

:grouphug:

Edited by lovemykids
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Yes, I have the 1999, 2004 and 2009 versions. I am looking for personal opinons on the older and newer, not only grammar. But what do you love.

 

I have seen things like Lively Latin, Minimus, Classical Writing and tons more. I was hoping I could get some opinions is all.

 

Geez maybe it was the wrong day to ask, with all the other crud going on.

 

Yeah, it's been a riot around here lately.

 

Jana, I spied on your blog and your children are ADORABLE! Your little "Texas tornado" is a hoot, and the question is not what grammar curriculum to use, but how will you get him off the ceiling so you can teach it to him? LOL! :lol:

 

Seriously, I'll try to give you a real answer about something. We use FLL 1/2 here. My assessment:

 

1. I LOVE the memory work, except that we use the original versions of poems (not always included in the book); just Google the title of whatever piece you are working on, to be sure you get the "original" version, if it matters to you to have it for comparison. For example, the FLL's version of "The Months" was bowdlerized, and we did NOT like it, so we simply substituted the original -- contains horrifying references to hunting, gasp.

 

2. I do NOT like the picture study -- I, personally, think that the illustrations, while sweet, leave a lot to be desired from an aesthetic point of view. So we substitute beautiful, color pictures that I collect, and use those for picture study/narration. It's a pain in the neck, really. For that reason, I am considering this, instead, just for the picture study:

 

http://www.queenhomeschool.com/productpages/Language%20Lessons/Language%20Lessons.html

 

3. I like FLL 1/2 a LOT better than English for the Thoughtful Child (recommended in the 1999 version of WTM, but since "replaced" with FLL). FLL helps the parent figure out what to do with the language/grammar instruction.

 

4. If you go with FLL, I do recommend getting the CD. We love listening to Mark Russo's narration of the stories and poems, it's well worth getting. Of course, when we come to the actual exercises in the book, my daughter always knows the stories ahead of time! Kind of defeats the purpose of doing a "listen and tell" narration, right? Sigh. We like the CD.

 

5. Some people criticize the repetition of "noun, noun, noun," but my daughter seems to like the repetition -- not necessarily NEED it, but just like the fact that she already "knows" what a noun is! What a BIG SCHOLAR, you know? She likes the mastery, it's not a big deal to stay with it for a few weeks, IMO. Just do the lessons and you will learn the grammar.

 

OTOH, some strictly classical WTMers (I think) like to skip grammar in the younger years, focus on the 3 Rs, then hit grammar through Latin (3rd/4th grade & up), then maybe do "formal grammar" through Analytical Grammar later. At least, that seems to be what I've picked up from hanging out here. HTH!

 

P.S. Don't be discouraged by the buzz of the Hive, it's been a little hot here this week. :001_smile:

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I got all caught up in the ongoing discussion in this thread about what makes a classical homeschooler and didn’t even answer the question.

What I plan on using the next time around/ this time

Phonics Pathways

Phonics reading books (various Bob books included, LLATL blue books)

Abeka math

Zaner Bloser Handwriting

FLL (some of it)

Mindbenders

WWE (textbook and pulling from our reading)

Wordsmith Apprentice

(maybe some IEW, and or Meaningful Composition…what I like the best is assigning my own writing!)

SOTW

WTM style science

Noeo (possibly, I think we like it so far)

:)

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Hmm, well my favourites have been:

FLL all of the books,

WWE-the workbooks simplify things so much.:)

Singapore Math

SOTW

Song School Latin

SWO

HWT

 

Didn't like:

LC-Prima was fine but we lost it with LC

WS-I liked it but dd didn't like it after about 4 lessons

 

I actually haven't switched curriculums that much as I try to carry on with what we have. Have fun with your research. I know what you mean about having a younger child that wants to learn these things. I think you have the right perspective about going broader and deeper before getting too far into some subjects:).

 

 

I sometimes wish for a do over in a few years so I could use some of the curriculum that just doesn't fit my particular children. I think I would love to do WT, CW, Math on the Level, and many others.

 

Have fun :D

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I got all caught up in the ongoing discussion in this thread about what makes a classical homeschooler and didn’t even answer the question.

 

What I plan on using the next time around/ this time

 

Phonics Pathways

Phonics reading books (various Bob books included, LLATL blue books)

Abeka math

Zaner Bloser Handwriting

FLL (some of it)

Mindbenders

WWE (textbook and pulling from our reading)

Wordsmith Apprentice

(maybe some IEW, and or Meaningful Composition…what I like the best is assigning my own writing!)

SOTW

WTM style science

Noeo (possibly, I think we like it so far)

:)

 

Thanks, many of those I have used before. LLATL, Mind Benders, Wordsmith, Zaner Bloser.

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Hmm, well my favourites have been:

FLL all of the books,

WWE-the workbooks simplify things so much.:)

Singapore Math

SOTW

Song School Latin

SWO

HWT

 

Didn't like:

LC-Prima was fine but we lost it with LC

WS-I liked it but dd didn't like it after about 4 lessons

 

I actually haven't switched curriculums that much as I try to carry on with what we have. Have fun with your research. I know what you mean about having a younger child that wants to learn these things. I think you have the right perspective about going broader and deeper before getting too far into some subjects:).

 

 

I sometimes wish for a do over in a few years so I could use some of the curriculum that just doesn't fit my particular children. I think I would love to do WT, CW, Math on the Level, and many others.

 

Have fun :D

 

 

Thanks, I am beginning to see a pattern here. Many people do like SBW's suggestions. Back when mine were young in 1999 many of her suggestions we very hard to find. It seems, beside some of her reading suggestions, most things are pretty darn popular and easily accessed.

 

I am really excited about another chance !! But who knows what will work with these guys...... always have to be flexible !

 

Jana

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The longer I homeschool, the more I go back to a more pure WTM curriculum.

 

That said, clipped from The Latin Centered Curriculum (which I would say is VERY classical)

 

If they are classical homeschoolers themselves, they will probably read The Well-Trained Mind or the essay that sparked the neoclassical revival, Dorothy Sayers' "The Lost Tools of Learning". Many, however, will be unaware that Sayers' ideas represent a radical redefinition of the term "classical education." This new definition is so different from the one known to anyone born before this century, that it would have perplexed most of the writers who now populate our Great books reading lists--and indeed, many of Sayers' own peers.

 

(my bold)

 

So, if we are playing who is more classical, be prepared for different interpretations.

Edited by justamouse
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The longer I homeschool, the more I go back to a more pure WTM curriculum.

 

That said, clipped from The Latin Centered Curriculum (which I would say is VERY classical)

 

 

 

(my bold)

 

So, if we are playing who is more classical, be prepared for different interpretations.

 

No not more classical, just which of SBW new suggestions are more liked really.

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FYI on WWE: WWE 1 is very slow moving. I don't use the workbook anymore. I am glad I have the main text and I doubt I will buy the workbooks for the future levels.

 

Thanks that is helpful, I will be sure to look at those locally first ! Although slow may indeed fit the bill for now. Since I want to stretch him wider rather than higher. Hmmmmmm Something else to think about.

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I'm still using Abeka. The second time around, I did use First Language Lessons, then Rod and Staff in first through fourth grades (along with Primary Language Lessons/Intermediate Language Lessons). The entire series of FLL wasn't out yet, then. It is available now and I believe it's very solid and combines the best of R&S plus PLL/ILL. But for fifth and up, I still like Abeka!

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WTM since the book came out...here's what I'm using with our bonus package kiddo:

Explode the Code for phonics - we did the "Get Ready" books when she was 4 and now, at 6, she's working on 4

Writing with Ease 1st grade book - I think this is too easy for her & we aren't getting to it anyway (sigh).

Readers: Pathway & McGuffey (2nd grade) and Great Stories for Little Americans (favorite)...we got 1/2 way thru Phonics Pathways last year and will use that only for spelling rules since she's quite the fluent reader now.

Grammar: I'm doing Our Mother Tongue with all 4 kids after breakfast & she's holding her own.

Spelling Workout - she's in level B and the words seem easy, but she's learning to work w/language so good fit.

Getty-Dubay Italic, Level C - which we don't get to consistently, but it's low priority

Math: We combine Math-U-See (beta) and Singapore (1B)

Song School Latin - BIG hit, loves the songs, basic vocabulary

Science - R.E.A.L. Science with Usborne books on the side

History - Story of the World I with Activity Guide

Art - I Can Do All Things

 

Hope that helps. We'll start her in Rod & Staff 3 next year, probably...if we don't end up with WWE. First Language Lessons seemed really slow to me...but she loves the CD and listens to it a couple of times a month. Also really enjoys the audio CD of Story of the World.

 

 

Thanks. I will have to chech out I Can Do All Things, & Our Mothers Tongue, never seen them.

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Mainly I am looking for tried and true Grammar suggestions.

 

We love junior analytical grammar. It gets done in 11 weeks (for us it's going to be 13 weeks as we had to hover for a couple of weeks over prepositional phrases). When we're done with JAG, we'll probably use a "daily practice" type workbook from Evan-Moore. I know Even-Moore is not considered a classic resource, but it works for my son, and that's my main goal. :)

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If I recommend only one curriculum, it is Right Start Math. Ds completed levels B through E (he went to public school in K) and has a really deep, conceptual understanding of math and easily manipulates numbers in his head. I always get really excited when I meet someone who is looking for homeschool materials and they are in K or 1st grade, because it is extremely helpful to begin Right Start from the very beginning. I have nothing against Singapore, but Right Start is just brilliant. Don't skip any of the games, though. In the book, they say "play ______ if you have time." Cross out the "if you have time" part, because the games are essential.

 

OK, off my soapbox now, to recommend Story of the World (which was probably not out yet when you homeschooled your olders), Minimus for second grade, Latin for Children beginning in third, Elementary Greek (third or fourth grade), Growing with Grammar, Real Science for Kids Chemistry (Pre-Level One, also Level One when they are older), Real Science for Kids Physics, Espanol para Chiquitos y Grandes (the one for littler kids), and those music CD's that everyone likes -- can't think of what they are called, but the titles include "Beethoven Comes to Call." Oh, and I really like Artistic Pursuits. I would recommend letting AP gather your art materials for you if you can afford it, or if not, be sure to gather them all before you start the program. You can do the AP K-2 books in any order, I believe.

 

Have fun with your sweet little ones,

 

Julie

Edited by buddhabelly
Artistic Pursuits
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Lots of things to think about in the last few posts !! Thanks ladies. I am getting super excited.

 

I already have SOTW and am collecting Newbery Award books. We are finishing up with P 4/5 in about a month I think. So I am trying to collect really fast. Thanks for the wonderful suggestions, I have been reading more on each and every one.

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If I recommend only one curriculum, it is Right Start Math. Ds completed levels B through E (he went to public school in K) and has a really deep, conceptual understanding of math and easily manipulates numbers in his head. I always get really excited when I meet someone who is looking for homeschool materials and they are in K or 1st grade, because it is extremely helpful to begin Right Start from the very beginning. I have nothing against Singapore, but Right Start is just brilliant. Don't skip any of the games, though. In the book, they say "play ______ if you have time." Cross out the "if you have time" part, because the games are essential.

Julie

 

I haven't seen Right Start yet, can you tell me a little more about it. I looked at MUS but I just can't get my head wrapped around "two 10".

 

Jana

 

P.S. Where in Alaska, I have lived in Anchorage, Palmer, Wasilla, Houston, Kenai, & Sitka. My ex used to work on the North Slope, we traveled tons.

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