Perhaps it is a family dynamic combined with him just being a normal boy who cannot sit still and school is all about, well, sitting still and listening. I heard about a remarkable teacher with a classroom of all boys who would take them outside and walk around the block while talking and teaching. They boys all did great with this teacher because he understood testosterone. It's not that mommies don't know their babies more than anybody, but I think that is a downfall of both HS and PS--sometimes boys just need it coming from another man, or done by someone who can do it in a way that is more about dealing with the "male" in them instead of the "little boy" in them. I would fight before I labeled or put my kids on meds--especially my son. My DD9 is just like you describe and it turned out to be her photographic memory and her passive-agressive personality. Also, a divorce she was still reeling over, and it all combined to develop these "not listening" HABITS, that were at one time her way of dealing with everything and now are still here because she is comfortable and doesn't want to learn a new way of fighting mom. I good CHILD psychologist, not a family doc, will help and understand all this. If the doc labels and suggests meds before a month of talking to you about it to really understand the family dynamic as well as his personalilty, then run and get another doc because that is not what you are paying $200/hr for. It takes at least 3 appointments to consider all the possibilities. You can call the local University Psyche dept and get a good grad student who will be supervised by the more experienced docs to get in their hours to get their degrees. They do it for free or for a small fee, usually for free. So if you just cannot afford it check into it. Here in Utah they have a clinic associated with the University and located up on the campus of the University so that might give you a clue where to start, to find a really good doc that won't just write a scrip and make an easy buck off a desperate parent. I've been where you are, it's do-able, don't give up. It may just take some family counseling all of you together. Follow your mommy instincts!

I've read WTM 2 1/2 times and I disagree that Latin is not a core. Latin is very important in the WTM method and the authors say just that, while it does expand beyond that and make History a vital focus. Simply from an academic POV History may not be considered important, but I would say that considering the world we live in, the economy and political boiling pot we are in, History would be considered a vital part of education regardless of political ideals. I do not understand how a Latin-based curricula could be considered thorough without History, since it is from their philosophers and scientists that many of our Founding Principles are stemmed from, and much of the beliefs that shaped math, science and language and politics in the world since. I thought all the great men of the past studied such things. How can there be a good curricula or method that leaves part of it out, but says it is based on what these men did? Reading WTM I understood that History ws vital because it is what TIES all these things together with our understanding of it/them. I'm also not understanding how WTM is considered "Book Only" method, as though it is supposed to be enitrely separate from "Learning from Life" idea. I took the book to say that we teach our minds the structure of thought so that our minds may apply it to Real Life, and see how these things like Latin, science, all tie together to influence the world and present day through History. To say nothing of our appreciation of them because we understand this connection from history. Food for thought...

We're new to HS, but we are doing it year round. I've taken the advice to keep Fridays/Saturdays easy going and to do a "Field Trip" on either of those days because I forget that not all the learning has to come from a book. We get in the car and drive out to the countryside to watch the animals or farmers. DH talks to the kids about what we see and where we go. He's more of an outdoors person and this is our way of involving him. On rainy days we drive to the next town and stop and get a treat somewhere and watch the storm and talk about it, etc. Or go up the canyon for a nature study. Sundays after church are good for this too, we play soft music and just go for a drive. We talk about religion or have discussions about things on our minds that we were too busy to get into during the week. Every day is educational without being "slaves" to the curriculum. (that's a joke, BTW!) :001_smile: There is something spectacular about time when we are just learning to communicate and interact (and not necessarily discussing nature, etc.) as part of our education too. Like singing silly camp songs and telling our kids about moments from our childhoods or our parents and grandparents. They are learning about Family History and how the world changes, but it has nothing to do with what we read that week, KWIM? Something I'm learning, just to share--I'm learning to shut my mouth more and let the kids talk. It's great feedback for what they are picking up, but it's very bonding and they feel they have some contribution to it all even if they are not in the logic or rhetoric stage.

The woman who wrote "The Pioneer Sampler" wrote sequels about pioneer thanksgiving and Christmas--for a different POV. I am so impressed with The Pioneer Sampler, and they got good reviews on Amazon that I am going back for the xmas and t-day versions. I get tired of the Pilgrim theme and want to see them from other historical perspectives. Hope this helps.

Your DD sounds a lot like my DD9. At 3yrs DD was "diagnosed" as having a photographic memory and a talent in art. I was worried about ruining her too, and I was going through divorce, etc, at the time which added to my stress and worry. Oy. It sounds like you are going good with the curriculum and the OPs gave great advice. I worked closely with the top Child Psychologist in my state because at the time I didn't know what to do with the this brain-child of mine. He cautioned me not to push her, that parents can get really caught up in the brain-side, and don't focus enough on who else they are besides smart. He strongly recommended that I don't push it, that I keep her challenged but just enough to keep her skills up and not lose them. That children, especially girls, begin to identify themselves with their smarts and that is not necessarily healthy because it sticks with them and they develop a complex, or they become teenagers and HATE that they are identified this way and rebel, totally tossing out their talents and carefully honed skills to try to become a Just Normal child. I know on this forum it's all about HS and curriculum and books, etc so that is what we all think of when we try to come up with what else we could could be doing. And sometimes that is good. I would actually advise to back off a little, as long as she is staying challenged and you are covering all the basics. Maybe the stress of all this is making a vicious cycle with your PPD and that is not a good example/foundation for her either. *She needs her mommy more than she needs to be Smart*. She will learn to make choices in life from YOU, not books. She will learn to be a mommy and a woman from YOU, not curriculum. That is also part of Education. And, IMHO, those are what matter most. The rest can be made up for--she could be a Self Educated WTM person like the rest of us who didn't even grow up with HS or WTM. We're ok and doing good for our kids. But dating jerks and getting knocked up to fit in because she has a Smart Child Complex, doing drugs, or being a mean person--that is something no book can make up for. NO BOOK/CURRICULUM CAN REPLACE MOMMY! :001_smile: or make her a Whole person. My 2cents.

I don't know why I'm so dumb coming up with ideas for this. Halloween has become just a family night in. Costumes get expensive and they just get covered up by coats, snow boots and hats. It usually snows the week before, at least in the mountains and is freezing! We carve pumpkins and roast the seeds, spread Nutella on apples and roll them in candies and eat them with popcorn while we watch Nightmare Before Christmas. It's been a big hit, but I'd like it to be more educational.

Do you guys add anything to your studies for Halloween? Are there some good/educational books/websites on Pagan traditions and the like? Do you get together with other HS groups for Trick or Treating? How do you tie Halloween into HS or do you just keep it separate and don't mix the two?

Also, I think where the frustration is, is where people will do Unschooling or just something very much outside the realm/purpose/method/intent of Classical and then come here and call themselves Classical/WTM because they read the book and include Latin. This is not a dog against Unschoolers! (Here it comes...) I'm just saying it's very different from Classical, IMO. (My very good friend is an Unschooler and she would agree with me, so do NOT come to me about this people! :cursing: :mad: :boxing_smiley:) I agree with the post about Latin not defining Classical either. Ben Franklin struggled with Latin and learned Spanish first, then French before even attempting Latin again. He said it was easier this way and recommended doing Spanish and French first. He also included German but I can't remember if it was before or after Latin.

This is exactly what I mean. As long as *Whatever* curriculum you chose fits into the Classical method, then it's Classical IMO. WTM is one version of Classical, from what I understand, and I think as long as your methods/curriculum fit into that "realm" then you are considered a Strict Classical/WTM HS. The author actually recommends SEVERAL curriculum that fit into the Classical arena, so I really don't understand why there is a discrepancy there. She's not prescribing ONE end-all-be-all curriculum that she happens to favor for her personal reasons. I think that's where the mix up is. She basically says "Pick from one of these and you'll still be in the Classical realm". She also says she recommends them because she looked into them or has experienced them and in many cases will tell you her opinion on each and every one in the subject. Ex: IEW is great but focuses too much on style, so if you chose it just be aware of that, etc. This is one of *6* writing curriculum that she recommends for grade 3!

I've heard that WTM is one version of Classical that is actually less rigid than "pure" classical, if you will. That is what I mean when I say WTM has *breathing room* for adaption. I agree though that to be Classical you have to adhere to certain basics principles, and WTM definitely does that, IMO.

Then my baby ( 18 now ) turned 10..... well I realized I wasn't done. Took a bit of work, but the tubal ligation reversal finally worked. :D You are so BRAVE! Good for you for following your instincts.

Oh my, I am wiping "tears" from my eyes. Your kids are adorable! My kids are asking me "What's going on mommy?" while I sit here and laugh. It's moments like these when I know I'm doing the most important thing in the world. My DH is talking about taking a second job so we can afford more HS stuff (like a microscope) and I just think I am so blessed to be doing this.