Seperately teaching two children the same material?

[LauraGB]

I need help. Advice. Words of wisdom.

Normally, we have grammar, science, history classes together. Math, since this year they are using different books, I do one on one. Everything else is done more or less independantly.

 

Dd works quickly, her grades are always nearly perfect, the quality of her work surprisingly good.

 

Ds also gets very good grades, but has an enormous amt of trouble staying with us for group classes. He needs to be redirected several times just to simply answer a question. He gets distracted while I am talking or reading from the book; the dog, the rain, his feet are cold, did he brush his teeth, he's thirsty, how many more classes will we have today, etc, until he forgot what we were even talking about and we need to start over. Poor dd just sits through most of this with her head in her arms on her book waiting to move on.

 

I'm frustrated. She's frustrated. He's got to be frustrated. (This is typical behavior for ds - not just school related)

 

It is true that when I work w/him one on one, he does much better. I am, however, having much trouble justifying teaching the same classes twice in a day; shouldn't he be able to stay with us in a class of just 2 kids?? Since he does well with just me, how can one other person in the mix throw him off?

 

So, since my questions, I see now after writing this all out, are many, let me try to sort them out.

1. Is it reasonable to teach 2 of each class each day if its the same material?

2. If I do decide to do this, what in the world with I do with each kid while I'm spending 4 hour blocks with the other one?

3. Or, what can I do to make sure dd isn't spending time in group classes bored to tears while we try to redirect ds back to the task at hand?

 

Very frustrated today.

[stephanie]

My ds10 is the exact same way. He's always a problem behind or saying, "Wait! Where are y'all?" His sister, dd9, is a full grade year below him, but we do everything but Grammar together. She is always right on target, and her work is always correct. In the beginning of the year I tended to wait on him, but now I've told him that if he won't keep up then he will be forced to do it on his own. He, too, works better if I'm sitting right beside him, but I feel it's pointless then to do it together if I'm going to have to do it apart. If it's a problem with understanding the concept then I will absolutely teach them apart, but that's usually not the case. So, I start each lesson with making sure everyone has gone to the bathroom, has eaten and had a drink, has no major injuries, and has all supplies necessary. Then I take it just a bit slower, but not as slow as to bore dd. I question ds, making sure he's up with us. I usually let him take the first problem so I know he's paying attention. It is a struggle sometimes, but I just imagine him as the little boy sitting in a classroom, daydreaming about ball or something. I've accepted that it's just part of his personality and we will both have to work at understanding it.

[stephanie]

I need help. Advice. Words of wisdom.

Normally, we have grammar, science, history classes together. Math, since this year they are using different books, I do one on one. Everything else is done more or less independantly.

 

Dd works quickly, her grades are always nearly perfect, the quality of her work surprisingly good.

 

Ds also gets very good grades, but has an enormous amt of trouble staying with us for group classes. He needs to be redirected several times just to simply answer a question. He gets distracted while I am talking or reading from the book; the dog, the rain, his feet are cold, did he brush his teeth, he's thirsty, how many more classes will we have today, etc, until he forgot what we were even talking about and we need to start over. Poor dd just sits through most of this with her head in her arms on her book waiting to move on.

 

I'm frustrated. She's frustrated. He's got to be frustrated. (This is typical behavior for ds - not just school related)

 

It is true that when I work w/him one on one, he does much better. I am, however, having much trouble justifying teaching the same classes twice in a day; shouldn't he be able to stay with us in a class of just 2 kids?? Since he does well with just me, how can one other person in the mix throw him off?

 

So, since my questions, I see now after writing this all out, are many, let me try to sort them out.

1. Is it reasonable to teach 2 of each class each day if its the same material?

2. If I do decide to do this, what in the world with I do with each kid while I'm spending 4 hour blocks with the other one?

3. Or, what can I do to make sure dd isn't spending time in group classes bored to tears while we try to redirect ds back to the task at hand?

 

Very frustrated today.

 

I forgot to summarize just to try to keep him involved it the lesson as much as possible! Even for Latin, instead of me just holding cards for them to answer, I alternate with each child so that each has a chance to speak. They make a game out of it by trying to get more cards than the other. It makes doing over 100 vocab card very quick and fun!

[happyWImom]

It must be a boy thing! My ds isn't good at all working by himself. He's capable, but just daydreams or starts to play with-whatever.

 

When we do read alouds though, he is very attentive, so for our history & science, I have him listen along but don't always have him do the activity pages. But, he's a lot littler than your ds. I cringe to think we're still going to have a problem as he gets older.

 

I wish I had advice. Good luck?

[JenneinCA]

I teach it twice. For us it is math. Both my dd10 and my ds8 are in the same level of math. Dd10 can do her quiz in 10 minutes, watch the dvd and then do the problems in 20 minutes. All without me hovering. But ds8 can NOT focus if I am not sitting there with him. I have given up on letting him do work on paper. He does all his work on the white board with me checking each problem after he finishes it. He can (and does) watch the dvd without my help. But he can't do the problems alone.

 

So now she does math first and he does math after Spelling/Grammar/Copywork. It is very annoying to see the same chunk of dvd going twice a day, but it is really our only option.

[Laura Corin]

I teach French twice now. Hobbes was feeling stupid before I split them and Calvin was bored at the slow pace. Things are much better now.

 

Laura

[rafiki]

.

[Mommyfaithe]

My 2 little guys are using CLE Social Studies and science. I purposely bought the same program THINKING I could do it with both at the same time...Ummmm...no..... They not only distract each other, they get me nuts! So, I do one kid through all their subjects...we meet up for Bible...then the one goes his merry way and the other is stuck with me...This year is taking me FOREVER to get finished...especially since I still have the 2olders who are so far apart in age, we do all their subjects separately too...

 

~~Faithe

[LauraGB]

Okay.

I agree that because we homeschool we are better able to address each child's individual learning. It is why we decided to go this route to begin with. I think I just needed some gentle reminders :001_smile:. Thank you.

 

I'm fairly confident that I can just tell dd what to work on and she can idependently (and gratefully) do her work, asking questions as she needs to. This will leave me time to work individually with ds.

 

However, I have two concerns about this; A) Dd will finish all her work in about 2 hrs and be utterly bored the rest of the day, and B) if I relieve the "pressure" from ds by working everything one on one with him, am I failing to teach him the skill of working in an environment that consists of not just him alone? I mean, I don't think he would be able to deal in ps - he would either be disruptive and get kicked out, or he would be lost in the system. Since he's here, with us, I have a fear that I may not be equipping him with the tools he needs to work effectively when he's not the center of attention if I choose to work the few classes we have together seperately. Does that make sense? Maybe at this age its more important to address the current issues to save his self esteem and work on group things later on?

 

Thoughts?

Edited October 1, 2009 by LauraGB

[LauraGB]

My 2 little guys are using CLE Social Studies and science. I purposely bought the same program THINKING I could do it with both at the same time...Ummmm...no..... They not only distract each other, they get me nuts! So, I do one kid through all their subjects...we meet up for Bible...then the one goes his merry way and the other is stuck with me...This year is taking me FOREVER to get finished...especially since I still have the 2olders who are so far apart in age, we do all their subjects separately too...

 

~~Faithe

 

Do you mean that you go through ALL the classes with one child, then go on to the other? What does the other child do while you are working with the one? I know dd will finish quickly and I won't be able to complain because her work is good. Do you assign time amts for each class (ie math for 30 minutes, grammar for 30 minutes, history for 45 minutes, etc)?

[MIch elle]

It must be a boy thing! My ds isn't good at all working by himself. He's capable, but just daydreams or starts to play with-whatever.

 

When we do read alouds though, he is very attentive, so for our history & science, I have him listen along but don't always have him do the activity pages. But, he's a lot littler than your ds. I cringe to think we're still going to have a problem as he gets older.

 

I wish I had advice. Good luck?

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[LauraGB]

I set up binders for them with dividers for the days of the week and at the beginning of each week I filled the binders with handwriting pages, math worksheets, logic puzzles, spelling worksheets,suduko, anything they could do on their own really.

 

To make this function I needed these rules:

 

Rule #1 - You may never interrupt mom working with a sibling unless there is blood or fire.

 

Rule #2 - If you get stuck move to the next thing and come back to the stuck thing later, or do your notebook work.

 

Great ideas! Thank you!

[MariannNOVA]

I did this last year for similar reasons. (and the bouncy one was my girl, not by boy!) I think it is perfectly justifiable and seems nessesary in your case, as it was with mine.

 

I broke up the subjects so I wasn't spending a huge block with one kid and then a huge block with the next kid. I set up binders for them with dividers for the days of the week and at the beginning of each week I filled the binders with handwriting pages, math worksheets, logic puzzles, spelling worksheets,suduko, anything they could do on their own really.

 

I started each morning going over the notebook work with my earliest riser to make sure she understood her independent work. After that I would go back and forth. Do history with one child and get them started writing a paragraph about it. While that one writes the paragraph I read history with the second child and help her compose two sentences about it. While she is copying the sentences and drawing a picture about history I am back with the first child going over the paragraph and discussing the lit book.....

 

It's like ping-pong and you are the ball but it worked beautifully. To make this function I needed these rules:

 

Rule #1 - You may never interrupt mom working with a sibling unless there is blood or fire.

 

Rule #2 - If you get stuck move to the next thing and come back to the stuck thing later, or do your notebook work.

 

 

:iagree:I am doing this with the twins and it is working for everyone. DD8 will work beautifully - she has wonderful study habits and work habits as does dd10. ds8 is a pain in the you know where --thirsty, the dog is thirsty, he's hot, he's cold, is it time for lunch, he has to use the bathroom -- it was not fair to his sister for her to be kept waiting. It goes much better with me teaching to each of them individually. It means sometimes sitting with him at 7pm at night and going through a CW lesson - and if he doesn't like it, he's been told he can pay better attention during the day -- but I can work more quickly with him alone if he has my undivided attention than if I am attempting to teach him and his sister.

 

They were able to share a uterus -- not a teacher,:lol: apparently.

[LauraGB]

...ds8 is a pain in the you know where --thirsty, the dog is thirsty, he's hot, he's cold, is it time for lunch, he has to use the bathroom -- it was not fair to his sister for her to be kept waiting...

 

...but I can work more quickly with him alone if he has my undivided attention than if I am attempting to teach him and his sister.

 

They were able to share a uterus -- not a teacher,:lol: apparently.

 

Mine are twins, too! And so completely opposite! Our situation has been an ongoing issue, and I really thought he'd grow out of it, but I think dd beat him to it.

[swellmomma]

I do this with my kids for much the same reason you do. If there is material I really only want to teach once like art, or latin we do it first. Then I teach them both independantly even though they use the same books. As a result this year has been going much smoother than previous ones and each has excelled and moved forward at their own pace. I do not use a timer approach, I use workboxes with an assignment approach. They sit and work on their boxes until done. At this point in time that takes 4 hours if they are working well( and we are only up to 9 out of 12 boxes), but some days have taken twice as long for 1 child and the rest are off and playing. That I find is the beauty of teaching them independantly, the rest do not have to suffer the consequences of 1 being a pain. Because I use workboxes if one finishes an assignement quickly they know exactly what to do next, it is all laid out for them. And they call me over to teach the lesson if the item requires it, or to provide further explaination etc. We have not added history in yet, though I think I will do that first thing each day so I can teach it once only, then they will branch off on their own.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Okay.

I agree that because we homeschool we are better able to address each child's individual learning. It is why we decided to go this route to begin with. I think I just needed some gentle reminders :001_smile:. Thank you.

 

I'm fairly confident that I can just tell dd what to work on and she can idependently (and gratefully) do her work, asking questions as she needs to. This will leave me time to work individually with ds.

 

However, I have two concerns about this; A) Dd will finish all her work in about 2 hrs and be utterly bored the rest of the day, and B) if I relieve the "pressure" from ds by working everything one on one with him, am I failing to teach him the skill of working in an environment that consists of not just him alone? I mean, I don't think he would be able to deal in ps - he would either be disruptive and get kicked out, or he would be lost in the system. Since he's here, with us, I have a fear that I may not be equipping him with the tools he needs to work effectively when he's not the center of attention if I choose to work the few classes we have together seperately. Does that make sense? Maybe at this age its more important to address the current issues to save his self esteem and work on group things later on?

 

Thoughts?

Give him a time line for daily work and also for all the hand holding. I honestly had to say, "I will sit with you for your math, but I really think this is something you can do on your own. I will only stay here with you until _________ (insert date or time). By then, you need to mentally prepare yourself to work a bit more independently."

 

In the meantime, I'd still make him sit in for dds lessons. It won't hurt him to hear it more than once. Perhaps the motivation behind having to be there more than once will show you if it's a discipline problem or not (I don't know if you're even wondering that, but I know I did when I had the wiggly one). Otherwise, seems worth it to separate.

[Haiku]

I'll be the lone voice of dissent and say that I think you should keep them together. I think this for several reasons, based on my personal experience:

 

1) I devote a great deal of my life to homeschooling, and I am not willing to spend 8 hours a day teaching.

 

2) My son is also very wiggly and can be quite inattentive. That is his problem, not mine. He is getting nearly one-on-one tutoring, and he's going to have to learn to pull it together. I tell my son at the beginning of each lesson that he is not allowed to interrupt me. He must save all questions and comments ("What's for lunch today? I hope I get my new Spiderman magazine soon!") until I am done with the reading.

 

3) My daughter is extremely bright and can get a little cocky. I think it's important for her to learn that the whole world will not revolve around her. If the history lesson goes a little slower so that I can bring her brother along, then she's learning that other people have needs, too.

 

Now, I am speaking of content subjects here. The skill subjects are done with each child separately.

 

ETA: I also reward my son for attentiveness, not for inattentiveness. One-on-one lessons is a reward for inattention. He gets you all to himself, but it's a waste of your time. I tell my son, "If I have to go over this again with you because you are not paying attention, then I won't have time to play a game with/read a book to/go for a walk with you." I make sure that my son's reward comes from behavior I am trying to encourage.

 

Tara

Edited October 2, 2009 by TaraTheLiberator

[katilac]

However, I have two concerns about this; A) Dd will finish all her work in about 2 hrs and be utterly bored the rest of the day, and B) if I relieve the "pressure" from ds by working everything one on one with him, am I failing to teach him the skill of working in an environment that consists of not just him alone? I mean, I don't think he would be able to deal in ps - he would either be disruptive and get kicked out, or he would be lost in the system. Since he's here, with us, I have a fear that I may not be equipping him with the tools he needs to work effectively when he's not the center of attention if I choose to work the few classes we have together seperately. Does that make sense? Maybe at this age its more important to address the current issues to save his self esteem and work on group things later on?

 

Thoughts?

 

Concern A: your dd is surely bored now, right? The boredome just comes in smaller increments, ;). If you truly think she'd just be bored with extra time, have a list of approved activities to work on during 'school' time. These should be things she enjoys, and she should get to choose to a degree; don't punish her for focusing and working quickly by requiring 'more of the same.' Every kid is different, but she might like: free reading, brainteasers and logic puzzles, educational time on the computer, crafts, drawing or painting, etc.

 

Concern B: Do you feel that the current setup is teaching ds those skills? Or would it be easier to gradually teach them in a setting that allows you to focus on him and his needs? imo, he first needs to master his internal distractions (my feet are cold, I'm thirsty, etc), and then you can move on to the external distractions (another student, the dog, etc).

 

My kids are allowed water in a sports bottle, and bathroom/stretching breaks as needed, but NOT in the middle of an explanation or discussion. How do you transition subjects? I always signal subjects that require all three of us, "Okay, after you guys finish your folder work, we'll do history." And that's the time to say you want to grab a drink or hit the restroom before beginning.

 

You might try explicitly stating this, "We'll be starting history, so take five minutes to go to the restroom or do whatever you have to do." Then you can feel fine about not allowing interuptions for the next half-hour.

 

I remember a thread where some moms said that they had to just refuse to engage with their highly distractible kids. The rule is that nothing other than the subject at hand can be discussed, period. If the kid says he's thirsty, don't say "You just had a break, why didn't you get some water?" Instead, say "That's not school" and continue. "My feet are cold/That's not school" and so forth.

[Haiku]

The rule is that nothing other than the subject at hand can be discussed, period. If the kid says he's thirsty, don't say "You just had a break, why didn't you get some water?" Instead, say "That's not school" and continue. "My feet are cold/That's not school" and so forth.

 

This is what I do, too.

 

Tara

[tarana]

My twin girls(7yrs) are like your children. One stays focussed while the other is trying to distract us all the time.

 

After each subject I give a drink & bathroom break. So she can go check on her dolls or dogs or wahtever.

My focussed one loves to write stories, so I give her notebook while the other one catches up. Sometimes I ask her to practise her penmanship.

 

Also we have a reward system, if the distractor finishes her work quickly she gets 2 points & the focussed one get 1 point.

Focussed one gets 2 points when she fisnishes a story. So it balances out well.