What do you do when you can't prove they're lying??

[~Tara~]

Having a time here with my boys. It's not happening ALL the time or anything, but something comes up frequently enough that we are faced with this same dilemma and I don't know what to do.

 

I cannot prove that any of them did or didn't do something. Yet, it's obvious someone DID do something.

 

What do you do?

 

For instance...who nibbled the tops off the muffins? Everyone says "not me"

 

Who stuck their finger in the butter?

"not me"

 

Argh! SOMEbody did it. All I want to know is WHO. And they have been told time and time again, the consequences are less severe, often times nothing but a warning, if they just confess. However if you are *caught* lying, that's when the wrath ensues. ;) Always telling them that it is ALWAYS better to tell the truth.

 

Yet...we still can't get someone to fess up.

 

What do ya do?

[j.griff]

Since NO one did it, I would let them all know that I couldn't trust any of them at all. This would mean they would not be allowed to do things they normally are allowed to do when you can trust them- I don't know their ages so I don't know what sort of examples to give, sorry.

[Kris]

My son is an accomplished liar, but it helps that he's the only one to blame things on. What amazes me is that it's taken so long for him to figure that out! :-D

[KristineIN]

We've only had it happen a few times over stupid stuff (but it's obvious, someone has done something and no one wants to take the blame), but when it does happen, they have to stand in a line until someone fesses up. It has taken about 15 minutes of standing still and by that time, who ever did it is usually in tears. I think after the first time that ever happened, they realized we were serious about lying.

 

Kristine

[beansprouts]

When it is silly stuff like this I don't need to know who did it. I don't ask questions that would set my kids up for a lie. I would simply speak to the entire group and tell them what I found and that this behavior is not acceptable. The guilty party will get the message, and the innocent will know not to try it.

[Kris]

There were four of us. My Dad's solution to getting someone to fess up was to beat each of us, one after the other, with a leather belt until someone confessed.

 

We had one particular incident that involved stealing lunch money (nickels and dimes back then) from the jar in the cupboard. It went on for *hours*. My mother found out later that it was my brother who did it (he never did 'fess up at the time -- but it did end. I guess Dad got tired) and she told me she was horrified that he let my little sister go through that and never said a word -- as she was his "best buddy" of the siblings.

 

When I told her I was horrified that *she* allowed it to go on in the first place, the conversation came to an abrupt end.

 

Needless to say, I don't practice my parents' form of discipline -- and I certainly wouldn't recommend it to you.

[beansprouts]

There were four of us. My Dad's solution to getting someone to fess up was to beat each of us, one after the other, with a leather belt until someone confessed.

 

I would consider that abuse.

[Mrs Mungo]

When it is silly stuff like this I don't need to know who did it. I don't ask questions that would set my kids up for a lie. I would simply speak to the entire group and tell them what I found and that this behavior is not acceptable. The guilty party will get the message, and the innocent will know not to try it.

 

I tend to agree with this.

 

Funny story: My sister and cousin (neither of whom have kids) were visiting us when we lived in NC. We drove up to Chimney Rock one weekend and were staying in a cabin that had a stream behind it. The adults were sitting by the stream. The kids had been playing in it and went inside to get cleaned up. After a bit my son (5 at the time) came out and said his sandal broke. I took one look and said "what did you use to cut your sandal?" He insisted he didn't cut it, that he had gone in the water and when he came out it broke. I told him to have a seat until he was ready to tell the truth. Meanwhile, my sister and cousin are whispering to me "I think he's telling the truth, it looks like it *could* have broke" etc. Then my middle daughter comes be-bopping out of the house. As she's chattering away she pulls a pair of folding embroidery scissors out of her pocket. I snatch them out of her hand, turn to my son, holding them up and say "ah-HAH!" To which he immediately replied "I'msorryIcutmyshoe." My sister and cousin were SHOCKED.

 

So, if it's a situation where I feel I need the truth, I can usually uncover it. If it's something in which any party could have been guilty then everybody gets a lecture.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

When it is silly stuff like this I don't need to know who did it. I don't ask questions that would set my kids up for a lie. I would simply speak to the entire group and tell them what I found and that this behavior is not acceptable. The guilty party will get the message, and the innocent will know not to try it.

 

Exactly. Tell them you're sorry not one of them is old enough to take full responsibility for their actions yet, tell them that ________ happened, and tell them not to do _______ again. Tell them you'd be happy to hear about what happened if anyone cares to tell you.

 

Asking "who" is akin to asking "why." If you catch someone doing a wrong thing, simply tell them what they did and tell a) not to do it again and/or b) what the penalty for doing it this time is.

[~Tara~]

This has happened over more serious issues in the past, I just can't bring any to mind at the moment. It's just been this ridiculous stuff lately.

 

And that's also where I'm stuck..it's nothing to make a huge deal out of. It's nothing to lie about in the first place. In some cases even, it's just an accident (the butter incident for example, we were eventually told a plate fell into it as one was putting dishes away..I'm still not sure that lines up, but anyway, I *can* see that happening, and we left it at that...not a hill to die on). So, I'm stuck ... at what point do I just blow it off and how far do I go to try to get it through their heads that lying is NOT acceptable.

 

Oh, ages: 10 (11 next month actually), 8 and 6. And the 4 yr old girl is thrown in the mess from time to time. Or something comes down to being the 4 or 6 yr old. Both of whom will deny to the death. :rolling eyes:

 

We've tried the standing in a line thing...gave up after 10-15 minutes of no confession. Perhaps we should hold out longer?

 

We've also 'addressed the group'..just a general 'whoever is doing such n such needs to STOP..' kind of deal. It'll still happen again.

 

I don't know what's worse...when I really haven't a clue who did 'it'...or when I am pretty certain *who* did it, just can't prove with hard evidence. Grr

 

And my 6 yr old seems to be the hardest yet to 'break' of this whole lying. They've all gone through the phase, but the elder two didn't cling to it like this one has. Oooooooo boy, this one's killin' me!

[Kris]

I would consider that abuse.

 

Unfortunately, 40 years ago it was considered "effective parenting."

[K&Rs Mom]

I like Cindy's idea of the group lecture.

 

As for the 'standing in a line' plan, my parents did that, or grounded all 4 of us until someone confessed, and I regularly ended up confessing to something I didn't do just to end it. It didn't help to have an older brother (actually the most likely culprit) saying, "I know you did it, just admit it." :( I think the idea behind this is sound but, depending on the family dynamic, it may not get the result you want.

[Mom2legomaniacs]

When my oldest was around 5 or maybe a hair younger, he told a lie. Straight at me. I knew it was a lie. He didn't want to get in trouble. We had a big discussion on how important it was to tell the truth. That lying would make me far more angry than the original offense. I talked him up one side and down the other that day about that issue.

 

The very next day, something happened. He stopped for a split second and then told the truth. My reaction was SO much less than the previous day. It made a huge impression on him. He saw that I really was not nearly as upset for the truth telling situation as I was for the lie.

 

I keep on them about that. As far as if they don't own up. I would remove all privileges for everyone. If anyone is party to hiding it from me, they are just as guilty as the doer. I hound them mercilessly with words and lectures. They would be bored to tears with life if they chose that path.

[beansprouts]

As for the 'standing in a line' plan, my parents did that, or grounded all 4 of us until someone confessed, and I regularly ended up confessing to something I didn't do just to end it. It didn't help to have an older brother (actually the most likely culprit) saying, "I know you did it, just admit it." :( I think the idea behind this is sound but, depending on the family dynamic, it may not get the result you want.

 

 

OOooohhh... My mother did that to me once when I was 17. I KNEW my brother was the guilty party, and I was convinced she did also, and just wanted to pick a fight. Anyways I LEFT with friends and didn't come home for a week.

 

We had issues...

 

I don't think punishing all for the sins of one is fair. Since the guilty party knows he's in for it anyways, what motivation does he have to "fess up? Why not make his pain-in-the-butt sister/brother suffer as well?

 

I guess I don't have much to offer for dealing with lying. It hasn't been an issue for dd - it's just not her personality. My 4 year old ds I think may be another story... I guess the only thing I can think of so far is a) not let them lie (i.e. "What did you use to cut your sandals?") and b) make sure they feel safe telling me the truth. However, I know some kids will lie no matter what you do (my brother was like this).

 

This doesn't help much, I know - I will be watching for replies from the more experienced moms.

[Chris in VA]

I am so sorry you had to go thru this.

[Chris in VA]

Punish them all.

I tried this once, and ds got sooo mad at his little brother, who had committed the offense. They policed each other.

 

Can't do it now, tho. Ds 16 can lie straight to our face. He says not to trust his words but trust his actions. Hmmm. Not sure you can have trust that way.

[GothicGyrl]

I'm sorry, there is ALWAYS a way to tell who has lied, it's just a matter of you not letting them know you don't know how... ;)

 

Group involved? Guess what, it would involve this and picture Mom saying these words:

 

"Alright, I know someone lied. Period. And I know it was one of you. Period. And since no one wants to fess up to the crime, you are ALL guilty and will ALL be punished. But, I'll give a repreive to the one who tells me the truth. Fess up now and you go free. No fessing up, punishment follows until someone does and then that person receives more".

 

 

Sorry, lying is the one thing I DO NOT TOLERATE in my house. I would never, ever stoop to abuse like Kris's dad did, ever.. and I don't ever have to raise my voice when I say this. Usually the threat of being punished along with the actually "criminal" is enough to get someone to speak up.

[Chris in VA]

We posted just about the same thing, at the same time! lol

[beansprouts]

"Alright, I know someone lied. Period. And I know it was one of you. Period. And since no one wants to fess up to the crime, you are ALL guilty and will ALL be punished. But, I'll give a repreive to the one who tells me the truth. Fess up now and you go free. No fessing up, punishment follows until someone does and then that person receives more".

 

And what if the innocent party doesn't know who did it? Or knows, but it's one's word against another (this used to happen all the time with me and my bro...)

[~Tara~]

I'm not big on the idea of punishing all for the sins of one. However I have thought about trying it. Hub does not agree at all. The last incident we had around here I suggested they all get a spanking if no one confessed. And he quickly nixed that idea. Said he just couldn't do that. Which, I feel the same way, it isn't fair to the innocent parties. If they *know* who did it, they will rat that person out, we've not had any problems with that. But..if the innocent parties honestly do not know ... ?? How can we punish them, the completely innocent?

 

Lying is a BIG no in our house too, that's why this is such a problem. For the most part, the elder two have caught on...very VERY rarely will they hold out and 'deny to the death' and that's really only the 8 yr old who sometimes momentarily 'relapses' ;) They have all been told from the beginning that lying will NOT be tolerated. That telling the truth the first time will set them free. If they lie, they receive more punishment...for the original offense AND for the lie.

 

Eldest caught onto that pretty quickly. The 8 yr old took a tad longer and still has moments..but he's a stinker..he picks words apart. I can't recall an exact incident off the top of my head but it would go something like this "Ok, who ate the top of the muffin?" no answer...we determine this now 8 yr old was the only possibility, we continue to try to get him to just confess..after some time of dad rephrasing things, just in case there was any misunderstanding (which, there isn't with this 8 yr old, I assure you)..he informs us that he did not "eat" the top of the muffin..rather, he picked some of it off and tasted it...or something along those lines. Or "did you eat the icing off the cake" he would eventually come back with "I scraped some off with my finger and licked it"

 

But anyway, that's THAT kid.

 

It's the 6 yr old I have the most trouble with right now.

 

Speaking of which...must go tend to him as he's getting into trouble again.

[GothicGyrl]

And what if the innocent party doesn't know who did it? Or knows, but it's one's word against another (this used to happen all the time with me and my bro...)

Sorry beansprouts--I will not argue this. ALL get in to trouble for lying because SOMEONE WILL confess and it usually is the guilty party. I DO NOT PLAY GAMES with lying.

 

If they are truly innocent --they will come to me privately and tell me so. Standing there whining only irks me more. I've raised my children well enough to know that this is how they would do it. I've taken care of enough children to know that this works as well as it does with my kids (with slight modifications due to the fact that they are my own children)..

 

I do not tolerate lying--it is a flat out deal breaker for me.

 

I'm not big on the idea of punishing all for the sins of one. However I have thought about trying it. Hub does not agree at all. The last incident we had around here I suggested they all get a spanking if no one confessed. And he quickly nixed that idea. Said he just couldn't do that. Which, I feel the same way, it isn't fair to the innocent parties. If they *know* who did it, they will rat that person out, we've not had any problems with that. But..if the innocent parties honestly do not know ... ?? How can we punish them, the completely innocent?

 

I do say this gently--but if DH is not behind any form of punishment for lying, then you've lost the battle and they know that. They know that as long as DH keeps disagreeing with your way of handling it all they have to put up with is "mom yelling for a bit". Tolerable.

 

The innocent WILL rat out the guilty upon threat. Sorry it doesn't seem fair and in truth it isn't. But it works for businesses and it works for kids. I will do what it takes to find the person responsible and if they end up having to be ratted out or the innocent have to suffer for their lying--that makes it all the worse for them. And they know this up front.

 

But the key is getting DH behind you. Since you don't have him behind you, nothing any of us says will work. And your kids know this. Until you get DH on the same page as you, I'm afraid your problems are only going to get worse.

[beansprouts]

Suit youreslf. I wouldn't do it. I still remember the resentment towards my brother and my parents for treating me that way.

[GothicGyrl]

Suit youreslf. I wouldn't do it. I still remember the resentment towards my brother and my parents for treating me that way.

And I am sorry you have that resentment, though understandable. I have no answers for that. I know what works in my home and I've not had a problem of lying because of it.

[Danestress]

You know, as irritating as it would be, I am not sure that I would need to know who stuck his finger in the butter or nibbled a muffin. I think I would content myself saying, "Gosh, someone nibbled the muffin. I hope whoever did that won't do it again, because it really makes me not want to bake special treats anymore." And let it go.

 

I realize this won't solve every problem. There will still be times when you actually really do feel you want to know who did something and to punish them. But I probably wouldn't get that invested in these small things. If I knew who put his finger in the butter, I would probably just say, "Gross. Please don't do that again." I wouldn't punish it but would just state my objection. So I might as well just say it to the group.

[Catherine]

if there is simply no way for me to know, or figure it out, I drop it. The real solution, for me, has been to watch them very closely, particularly the ones who seem sneaky or tending to dishonesty. I myself wouldn't impose any punishment for infractions like sticking fingers into frosting, other than a stern talk and repeat demo on "poop germs"-sorry, but it's true!

 

I really find that close watching, "tomato staking" as some call it, has solved many of my stickiest parenting problems. It's not easy, for me or for them, but it has helped me finally to see what is happening, who is "stirring up trouble" and nip it in the bud, then work to change the heart of the perpetrators.

[Peek a Boo]

try role playing.

If you THINK it's really the 6 yo, then get his sibling in on the training.

 

Take eldest aside, bring in dh on the thing.

 

Set up a scenario: leave a muffin out, ask them to sneak in and take a bite, then fess up when you make a big deal about it.

I would have a "consequence" set up that won't pain eldest, but will *appear* to. If oldest knows about this consequence in advance, and that you are NOT really doling out a consequence but role playing a scenario, that will take the edge off it.

 

reward profusely for telling the truth, then dole out the rest of the muffin to everyone else. Or take away his dessert.

 

make sure you do this about three times in one day, or three days in a row. Establish a different scenario for each time.

 

My 10yo can understand a process like this. If i tell him he'll be losing a dessert as a "punishment" for a crime I told him to commit, I let him know that I'll be rewarding him for his help later on. He won't really LOSE his dessert, it will just be delayed:D It has helped a lot in our house. Even my 4yo is pretty confident to tell the truth. Her sweet confidence just melts dh tho, lol.

 

and fyi-- i would establish Very Clearly w/ the eldest the difference between role playing for training purposes and *lying*.

[Amy in Orlando]

if there is simply no way for me to know, or figure it out, I drop it. The real solution, for me, has been to watch them very closely, particularly the ones who seem sneaky or tending to dishonesty. I myself wouldn't impose any punishment for infractions like sticking fingers into frosting, other than a stern talk and repeat demo on "poop germs"-sorry, but it's true!

 

I really find that close watching, "tomato staking" as some call it, has solved many of my stickiest parenting problems. It's not easy, for me or for them, but it has helped me finally to see what is happening, who is "stirring up trouble" and nip it in the bud, then work to change the heart of the perpetrators.

 

This is how I feel too. The dumb stuff is annoying but not worth punishing. For me (we went through two separate spells of this) it was worth REALLY watching and keeping them in my sight.

 

The few times that something "big" happened where I didn't see who started it or who ended it, everyone was sent to their boring rooms to sit on their beds. It's weird maybe, but I loved how they all came together and supported the "confessing" brother. And we always got a "confessing" brother. But this was big stuff -things where someone could have been seriously injured or could have seriously injured someone else. I wouldn't use it for sticking a finger in the brownie pan (though that kind of thing does tick me off).

 

My boys are much older than yours and we're mostly past this - I hope. Here's a recent post on my blog for how we have dealt with this recently.

 

http://www.thefoilhat.com/insidethefoilhatblog.htm?blogentryid=2891968

[Nestof3]

Our oldest son (technically my step-son) was lying all the time when I met him. It really was a huge problem. It has continued to be his most besetting sin even through the teen years, though I'm sure it happens quite rarely now. Truthfully, as he has aged, he has not had as many "reasons" to lie. He hasn't been doing as many things he wants to cover up.

 

So, I kept a very watchful eye on lying with my younger two. I remember my 8 year old lying when he was probably 6 or 7. When I brushed his teeth, it was apparent to me that he had eaten chocolate. Now, young ones in our house must ask for food, especially dessert food. I asked him about it, and he denied it. I told him that I just could not believe he was telling me the truth, I told him how lies destroy trust between two people, and I reminded him that sneaking something is one problem, lying on top of that is another, and so forth. I reminded him also that lying is a sin (at least that sort of lying, you know). I dropped it and said goodnight to him and told him I loved him and that there is forgiveness waiting if he ever wants to confess. A while later he called me back to his room. He was teary-eyed and confessed.

 

Weeks later, he came to me on his own and confessed something he had done. I cannot remember what it was now, but he said he remembered that confession restores the relationship while a lie destroys it -- of course he explained this in his own words. I cannot think of another time he lied to me. I do recall a few times of confession when I knew nothing of it his sin or infraction, but I always let him know I am glad he confessed, that forgiveness is always there, and that I love him. There have been times when I still had to bring a negative consequence even after he confessed, but I made sure he understood that this had to be and I made sure it was not overly harsh. Somehow he seems to understand it all.

 

I have had similar experiences with my youngest.

 

In other words, I take lying very seriously, but I also think it has to be explained very thoroughly when they are young. I think once the pattern sets in, it is very hard to break. Our oldest said it was an immediate response to lie anytime he thought he could get out of some sort of negative consequence. It was truly besetting.

 

Our oldest lied about a lot of stupid things as well, but he will even admit that lying became second nature to him -- that he began lying without giving any thought to it. I do not want to see my other sons go through that.

[Plaid Dad]

I cannot prove that any of them did or didn't do something. Yet, it's obvious someone DID do something.

 

I haven't read all the responses, but my first thought is that if no one confesses, the consequences should be applied equally to all. The only way for that to stop is for the culprit to come forward of his/her own accord - tattling won't do. There will likely be some behind-the-scenes negotiation as they sort this out, but in the end, sibling pressure will win out and either the culprit will confess or (better yet) will learn not to sneak around in the first place.

 

Edited to add: Having just read through the other posts, I see that this may not work if one child is willing to confess to something he or she didn't do just to stop the punishment. Depends on the temperament of the kids, I guess!

[Stacey in MA]

which I just read in my husband magazine. Can't remember which mag.....maybe The Week?? A writer did a focus group of about 36 older teens and asked them about lying. Anyway, I got a couple of things out of it.

 

First of all, lying (esp. at an early age) is associated with intelligence (woopie! mine must be smart! ;-p) They have to first understand that they CAN tell an untruth, understand that they can USE it to save themselves a punishment, and know WHEN to use it, and know HOW to pull it off or say it convincingly. Secondly, the modern notion to try and "let it go" or to "be permissive" (often in order to make the child not feel bad, or to make the child feel closer to the adult and therefore hypothetically want to talk to the adult more) about lying only promotes more lying.

 

The things that did work work in helping were these: for younger kids - encouragement in the form of teaching about praise and honor. (The children in a clinical test environment who were read "The Little Boy Who Cried Wolf" just before a "coincidental" opportunity to lie, still lied. The children who were read the George Washington cherry tree story where in the end his father praises him for not lying had a significant lesser incidence of lying at that next opportunity - something like 43% less.)

 

For older kids, the trick was simply to have a fewer rules, but ones that aren't ever bent or broken. Stay firm on big rules, and simply don't have small ones (I'm simplifying this idea, but that's the general gist).

 

Anyway, that being said, I personally find it really hard to implement! I don't have any "real" answers for you, but you're not alone.....

 

Hang in there - Stacey in MA

[Kelli in TN]

This is how I feel too. The dumb stuff is annoying but not worth punishing. For me (we went through two separate spells of this) it was worth REALLY watching and keeping them in my sight.

 

The few times that something "big" happened where I didn't see who started it or who ended it, everyone was sent to their boring rooms to sit on their beds.

 

 

But this was big stuff -things where someone could have been seriously injured or could have seriously injured someone else. I wouldn't use it for sticking a finger in the brownie pan (though that kind of thing does tick me off).

[/url]

 

I agree with Amy. The thought of punishing innocent children in hopes that the guilty party will confess or that the innocent party will tattle seems so very unkind. It might be effective. But then the "discipline" method that Kris shared in this thread might be effective too. Effective does not always mean fair or kind or good for the kids.

 

When I was younger and my teens were little I was generally very uptight about these sorts of issues. Everything was a big deal. Everything was proof of a "rebellious spirit". Nothing was ever just chalked up to "being a kid".

 

I read a Wall Street Journal article yesterday about an unrelated topic, but in that article a quote jumped out at me. A teacher was explaining a behavior that we generally would find offensive here (this was in another country) and she said "We have to remember that they are children and that they are still learning how to live" or something like that.

 

I just think fingerprints in icing, missing muffin tops, thumbprints in the butter, are all fairly normal. Kind of gross, but normal.

[~Tara~]

Thanks for the input all. I'm still trying to take it all in and see what I can use.

 

I do agree that nibbling a muffin top or sticking a finger in butter is NOT a big thing. It's not. And it's not worth punishing. I just wanted to know who did it so I could specifically tell them to please not do that again. Yes, I've done the group address thing. But the same sort of thing will happen again without more direct attention. That's why I wanted to know for sure *who* so I could confront THAT child, because apparently when it comes to addressing the group, I have one specifically who thinks he doesn't apply to him.

 

And yes, about hub not being on board. That was my big fear last time this happened. As I said, I did *not* necessarily want to punish all for the sins of one, but I felt we had no other option. And felt we had tried 'everything else'. So when I suggested that, as our apparent last resort, and he said he wasn't going to do that..my heart immediately sank. I felt lost and hopeless. Well what then? Did he have another idea? No. Did his response (ignoring) get us any further? No. We don't have problems in the area of disciplining our kids, we have always agreed and kept each other in line when we thought the other was being too harsh or whatever. So this was really an *ouch* to me. And I feel as Toni (I think that was you) was saying that the kids have now seen that separation and it's going to be even harder to gain back that ground.

 

Hub and I are going to have to talk about this and come to SOME kind of plan.

 

Peek, thanks for the role playing idea. It's worth a shot.

 

Thanks again all, I'll be coming back here often to re-read :)

[Pamela H in Texas]

Okay, I haven't read through the thread yet (and now notice it has four pages so I'm probably WAY behind), but thought I'd give my two cents worth.

 

First, in those sorts of situations, I just wouldn't ask who did it. I would simply discipline the group such as:

 

1) "Nobody likes nasty little boy fingers in their butter. Please, little boys, refrain from sticking your fingers in the butter!"

 

2) sit them all down and discuss (extremely briefly with them doing the talking!) why eating the muffin tops is unkind, unhealthy, etc.

 

When you DO know who did it (like my son was the only one up yesterday morning to pick a piece off the brownie), simply discipline as reasonable, skipping the whole (possible) drama of confession.

[katilac]

I agree that honesty is crucial. It is addressed with great seriousness at this house.

 

I very much disagree that there is always a way to find out who is lying - - if you punish all until someone confesses, you don't necessarily have the truth. You have a confession, that may or may not be true.

 

Punishing the innocent is a great way to create resentment and fear in your children (both towards each other and towards the parents). And it doesn't solve the problem or address the core issue.

 

Kids are all so different. Some will confess to crimes they are innocent of because they are upset and want the stressful situation to end; some kids will never confess, no matter how much their innocent siblings are suffering.

 

I know that some of you feel you've had luck with 'no one moves till I hear the truth!' but what's the game plan when the hours are ticking by and no one's confessing? Do you escalate to punishment? And if the punishment doesn't work, do you escalate again? As far as applying the consequence equally if no one confesses . . . I truly do not understand that, or what purpose it serves to punish kids that you know are innocent.

 

Regarding the OP, if these are very occasional things, I'd probably stick to addressing it with everyone on the spot - - don't stick your finger in the butter! - - and moving on with life. If it were a bit more persistent, I'd probably decide that all the kids need a bit closer supervision. It won't take long to figure out if it's an "all the kids" problem or a "this kid in particular" problem, and then I can address it accordingly.

 

There is tremendous value in teaching kids how to confess and face the music. nestof3 gives a beautiful example of how to do this by truly teaching and touching a child's heart.