Home'scool Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 My nephew is 18. He has wanted to be a Marine since he was little. Not the Army or the Navy, but the Marines. Last year, after he turned 18, he wanted to get a tattoo. He asked his recruiter what the guidelines were. He was told that as long as the tattoo didn't show while wearing a shirt he was fine. He got a cross on a his chest. He went in today to sign some papers and start to get the ball rolling and his recruiter told him that the new guy in charge of the Marines (he had his picture up under Obama's) has instituted a new policy: no tattoos whatsoever. Even guys who are trying to reinlist will be turned away if they have tattoos. My nephew is devastated. This is all he has ever wanted. The recruiter did say that he could get 3 recommendation letters and then write an essay explaining why he got a tattoo, etc., but that he had, at best, a 30% chance of succeeding. I know there are a lot of military wives on this board. ANY suggestions you have would be wonderful!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Couldn't he just get the tattoo removed? What a dumb policy. So sorry for your nephew. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Indeed Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Umm... NEVER have I heard of such a thing. I would go to a different recruiting office and see if they say the same thing. That eliminates a ton of Marines- at least the ones I knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Not a Marine wife, but that sounded strange to me so I did some googling. Here is what I found: http://www.marines.mil/news/publications/Documents/Marine%20Corps%20Tattoo%20Poster.pdf The left hand side shows which tattoos are allowed under all conditions. It sounds like that recruiter is a little confused. Here's another article that talks about restrictions for tattoos on those wishing to serve as recruiters or Marine security guards. http://www.military.com/news/article/marine-corps-news/corps-makes-change-to-tattoo-policy.html He should call another recruiter and see what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomLovesClassics Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yes, if this is what he wants to do, go somewhere else. Some recruiters are not well informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i.love.lucy Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 And, I'm sorry to sound ignorant (because I truly know nothing about the military) but can we seriously afford to turn away a great kid who wants to join because of this? Aren't we lacking in recruits? Or is it just that the Marines aren't lacking? Sounds like a stupid policy to me. Anyways, sounds like you've turned up some great advice and I'd call a different recruiter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 And here I thought it was required to have a tattoo if you were going to join the marines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 The commandant of the USMC, General Conway, has been in that position a couple of years now. If you google the USMC policy on tattoos, I think you will find that a tattoo on the chest should be fine as long as it is not contrary to good order and discipline (ie offensive, gang related, etc). And marines who were already active duty when the new order came out can simply document that they had it before a certain date and should be fine. Do you know what your nephew's tattoo looks like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 (edited) My understanding of the new policy is to prevent Marines (who are already Marines) from getting sleeves and other large tattoos that show while they are in their PT uniform. My hubby is Army but he's in a joint job. He has a Marine Master Sergeant who works for him who is Hawaiian and has large cultural tattoos. They recently had to take photos of the tattoos he had and explain the cultural significance of them (I think mainly to explain they were not gang related). This is a new policy that came about this spring/summer, so something a recruiter said last year would not apply. http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/a/tattoo.htm A tattoo on his chest is covered when he is in a PT uniform and shouldn't be a problem. Recent news stories on the issue: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-03-31-marines-tattoo-ban_n.htm http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/194766/marines_rush_for_tattoos_before_ban.html Edited August 17, 2009 by Mrs Mungo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 And, I'm sorry to sound ignorant (because I truly know nothing about the military) but can we seriously afford to turn away a great kid who wants to join because of this? Aren't we lacking in recruits? Or is it just that the Marines aren't lacking? Sounds like a stupid policy to me. The Marines are "the few and the proud" because of their high standards and small force size. There are just over 240,000 Marines (including Reserves) compared to almost 1.1 million Army soldiers (including National Guard and reserves). The Army has recently relaxed their former tattoo standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Thank you for all the responses. I will have my sister call another recruiter to double check. This recruiter seemed pretty sure of the new rule. He has been working with my nephew for a while now and was very thrilled to work with him. I'll keep you updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicmommy Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 But just wanted to say that my grandpa was in the Marines and I absolutely loved the tatoo he had! I was always so fascinated by it. It was on his forearm...and eagle, anchor and globe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherclassicmom Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I didn't read all the comments, but my nephew was in the Marine for 4 years, got tattoos while in the marines and when we went to relist for 4 more they told him NO! He was one of the top scoring guys. He just relisted with the Army, again scoring in the top! They took him:) I was shocked they won't even relist their own guys with tatoos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaT Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 My son is in the Marine Corp and has been since he was 18. He is 21 now. He has no tattoos, but I remember a while back he said something about a new tattoo policy. I didn't pay much attention because he doesn't have any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 (edited) Logic suggests your nephew wanted to go in the Marines with the intention of going to Officer Candidate School (OCS). The tattoo policy for Marine Officers has always been distinctly different than that for enlisted Marines. It has become increasingly difficult to get into OCS with a tattoo, particularly if you aren't "prior enlisted". All tattoos have required waivers for roughly a decade. I would not be even a little bit surprised to learn that the waivers are getting harder to obtain. The economy is bad. Applicants are lining up in increasing numbers. This always results in fewer waivers. How big is your nephew's cross? What is the design? Please, please tell my your nephew did not get an "Iron" or "Maltese" cross tattoo. Please tell me it's nice and small, and that it is well below the neckline. I suggest that your nephew ask the help of a Navy Chaplain serving with the Marines when writing his waiver essay. He needs to come across as a clean living American boy with no skin-head connections or offensively aggressive proselytizing inclinations. *(This space previously occupied by an offensive remark made by your's truly. Mea Culpa!) Edited August 18, 2009 by Elizabeth Conley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 How large is his tattoo? Does it show at the neckline? All tattoos are documented and require waivers when enlisting; some tattoo waivers are more difficult to get than others especially if there is even a remote possibility that the tattoo is gang related or otherwise negative in connotation. Your nephew will have to write a statement explaining the significance of his tattoo. He will be photographed shirtless and in a P.T. shirt to prove that the tattoo isn't visible in uniform. And FTR, not all Marine recruiters "lie like rugs." My dh just wrapped up a three year stint on recruiting duty and he was always straight with applicants. But maybe you meant this in jest. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 "But maybe you meant this in jest. :confused: " I am a Marine. This entitles me to complain bitterly about the veracity of recruiters' claims. It's a time honored tradition, and we Marines cling to our traditions. However, I recognize that it was inappropriate for this venue, so I apologize. Please forgive me for impugning your husband's honer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 For the record, Marine recruiters don't lie. They simply focus on the positive. They're cheery, optimistic souls. It may seem at some later date, when you're picking vermin off your buddy's backside or eating unknown fare with 3rd world allies, that your recruiter lied. He didn't lie. He just didn't mention that the only way to get rid of certain vermin is to dig them out with a hot knife, and cat doesn't taste like chicken. Now really, are these the kind of facts that come up in normal conversation? Of course not! Recruiters are not to blame for these misunderstandings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 For the record, Marine recruiters don't lie. They simply focus on the positive. They're cheery, optimistic souls. It may seem at some later date, when you're picking vermin off your buddy's backside or eating unknown fare with 3rd world allies, that your recruiter lied. He didn't lie. He just didn't mention that the only way to get rid of certain vermin is to dig them out with a hot knife, and cat doesn't taste like chicken. Now really, are these the kind of facts that come up in normal conversation? Of course not! Recruiters are not to blame for these misunderstandings. In talking to soldiers who felt their recruiter lied to them I often find it's due more to mis-communication. Recruiters have often been in the military a loooong time. When my youngest sister's husband was joining the Army he would tell me "the recruiter said X" and I'd have to say "OK, well what that *means* is Y." In this case it wasn't something the recruiter was doing on purpose, it just didn't occur to him what it implied to a civilian v. a military person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 You know what, I'm deleting the remark about the veracity of recruiters. It was offensive. I wrote it. I was wrong to write it. Obviously, it wasn't funny. It's gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in VA Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I didn't read all the comments, but my nephew was in the Marine for 4 years, got tattoos while in the marines and when we went to relist for 4 more they told him NO! He was one of the top scoring guys. He just relisted with the Army, again scoring in the top! They took him:) I was shocked they won't even relist their own guys with tatoos. My dh is a Marine. I have never heard of anyone not being able to re-enlist solely based on having tattoos. Unless he went against guidelines, I'd have to think there is another reason for denying re-enlistment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 The tattoo that he has is a bit large, but it cannot be seen if he has a t-shirt on. He was going to get the word "honor" but changed his mind and did a cross. The only real significance was that he has always collected crosses, different kinds, and has always liked the look of them. This kid is a straight arrow all the way. Never been in any trouble. Always a good student, always very responsible, very honest and trustworthy. You don't meet many 18 year olds like him. He wants to join the Marines because he likes the idea of being in a position to help people. It's about the service to others. When he gets out he wants to be a policeman. This is stuff he has planned since literally 6 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Haven't read the other replies but I don't believe this for one minute! I know lots of Marines. My son was in the US Marine reserves and they ALL have tatoos plastered all over their bodies! OMG, my daughter's best friend, a long time Marine just got the hugest tatoos all over his arms, and he JUST re-inlisted THIS summer - had tattoos all over him. No way is this true. ( IMHO of course ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 My dh is a Marine. I have never heard of anyone not being able to re-enlist solely based on having tattoos. Unless he went against guidelines, I'd have to think there is another reason for denying re-enlistment. I just posted, and then found this. My daughter's best friend just re-enlisted THIS SUMMER after a couple of years out. He has tattoos ALL OVER HIMSELF. Very, very visible tattoos. There's something not right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 I am really really really hoping that this recruiter just somehow has it wrong. This is the recruiter that my nephew has been talking with since last year, so he made it sound like it was a new thing happening. This was also the same recruiter who gave him the go ahead to get a tattoo. I will call my sister tomorrow and have her call and ask another recruiter. I would be great if it could be cleared up. It just seems strange that the recruiter would all of a sudden now bring this up like it is a new policy. I can guarantee, though, that it isn't something with my nephew. He graduated from h.s. in June, has been working at his job since, is in great physical shape. ....... I hope this gets cleared up soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 The recruiter is mistaken. I asked my dh about this and he just finished recruiting in March. He said certain crosses are off limits (he mentioned one associated with the IRA) but plain, run of the mill crosses are fine. Tattoos do require paperwork though and the Marines are not exactly hurting for new recruits so if this particular recruiter doesn't need your nephew to meet a quota he may not be inclined to do the leg work to get your nephew that waiver. Just an FYI. Also, once a station meets their quota for the month they are frequently cut off from writing any more contracts until the following month. In that case though I would think the recruiter would get your nephew's package together and lined up for the first of next month. I'm curious to find out how this goes for your nephew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I just posted, and then found this. My daughter's best friend just re-enlisted THIS SUMMER after a couple of years out. He has tattoos ALL OVER HIMSELF. Very, very visible tattoos. There's something not right here. Again, as I noted above, this policy only came in full force in July. That was when all the guys who already had large/very visible tattoos had to document them and can't get anymore large tattoos and stay in. The recruiter is *partially* correct in that there *is* a brand new policy and that it covers very large and/or very visible tattoos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 The tattoo that he has is a bit large' date=' but it cannot be seen if he has a t-shirt on. He was going to get the word "honor" but changed his mind and did a cross. The only real significance was that he has always collected crosses, different kinds, and has always liked the look of them. This kid is a straight arrow all the way. Never been in any trouble. Always a good student, always very responsible, very honest and trustworthy. You don't meet many 18 year olds like him. He wants to join the Marines because he likes the idea of being in a position to help people. It's about the service to others. When he gets out he wants to be a policeman. This is stuff he has planned since literally 6 years old.[/quote'] Does he just want to join the Marines, or does he want to go to OCS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Update: I called another recruiter this morning to double check what my nephew's recruiter was saying, and he basically said it all depends on who is looking at the tattoo. He did say that having a tattoo was not an immediate "no", but that it did require approval and that it could mean a "no". Hopefully my nephew will get approved. He will have no problem getting letters of recommendations from the local VFW hall and the State Police training camp he went to last summer, as well as teachers and his boss. I really really wish he never got this tattoo. This is why I don't like them. They are so **** PERMANENT! Once you have one....... that's it. I bet he is regretting it, but he did check with the recruiter before getting it last year. If he doesn't do the Marines they hopefully he will consider another branch of the military. It just a shame because he has always had his heart set on the Marines. Thanks for all the responses. My sister appreciated all the feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherclassicmom Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 My dh is a Marine. I have never heard of anyone not being able to re-enlist solely based on having tattoos. Unless he went against guidelines, i'd have to think there is another reason for denying re-enlistment. Well I won't claim that I know for sure, as maybe my nephew kept the real reason quiet, but I will say he has tattoos all over his arms and body. I will say he was highly wanted in the Marines when he came back from duty and he left to be with his wife and new baby. He wanted to re-enlist 3 years later. Maybe there is something with the time. He is in the Army now and headed back for another tour of duty. I just pray for him where ever he is and for his family. I guess I can only say what happened to him, from his point of view. I wasn't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Well I won't claim that I know for sure, as maybe my nephew kept the real reason quiet, but I will say he has tattoos all over his arms and body. I will say he was highly wanted in the Marines when he came back from duty and he left to be with his wife and new baby. He wanted to re-enlist 3 years later. Maybe there is something with the time. He is in the Army now and headed back for another tour of duty. I just pray for him where ever he is and for his family. I guess I can only say what happened to him, from his point of view. I wasn't there. You mean he deployed and got out of the corps when he got back (I assume at the end of his first enlistment)? Then, three years later, he tried to go back to active duty and they wouldn't take him? That is a bit different than just re-enlisting. He would be classified as prior service and, for various reasons, it is often difficult for prior service Marines to go back to active duty. I've seen guys wait a full year or longer to get back in. Many of them wind up joining another branch because they can't wait any longer. I hope your nephew is happy where he is at now. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherclassicmom Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 You mean he deployed and got out of the corps when he got back (I assume at the end of his first enlistment)? Then, three years later, he tried to go back to active duty and they wouldn't take him? That is a bit different than just re-enlisting. He would be classified as prior service and, for various reasons, it is often difficult for prior service Marines to go back to active duty. I've seen guys wait a full year or longer to get back in. Many of them wind up joining another branch because they can't wait any longer. I hope your nephew is happy where he is at now. :001_smile: Yes that was what I meant. I guess I thought it would be considered re-enlisting :) He is happy where he is, although I am sad and nervous. He is headed out in just a few weeks, I'm not sure where. I know it's to the middle east. His wife is one amazing woman! I would be beside myself but she supports him 100%. I told him I was on my knees for 4 years, but I would happily do it again for him. Anyhow, I was under the impression it was only his tattoos that kept him from being able to join a second duty. Guess it could have been more than that. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Anyhow, I was under the impression it was only his tattoos that kept him from being able to join a second duty. Guess it could have been more than that. It usually doesn't mean your nephew committed any indiscretion in the eyes of the Corps. It has been true for decades that people with prior service in the Marines have a hard time re-entering. It's nearly impossible to re-enter at exactly the same rank. Here are some reasons: 1. S/he hasn't been working in his/her MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) for the period of time he's been out. Some refresher training is in order, and the system isn't geared for that. 2. Marines who haven't gotten out are working hard and eagerly looking forward to promotion. In some MOSs, only a handful will be promoted in each cycle. Fairness issues compel the Marine Corps to balance these Marines hopes and dreams against the returning Marine's. 3. Returning Marines sometimes have trouble accepting that they've lost rank. They may find themselves taking orders from people who are younger and were only privates or PFCs when they left the service. A degree of humility and maturity can be required to make this work. 3. The Marines are a smaller service than the Navy, Air Force and Army. This means the impact of meeting the needs of the returning service-member is necessarily greater. The problems we describe are a mere drop in the ocean for a huge service, but tend to be more pronounced in the Marines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 PS: I've been out for more decades than I care to admit. When I took our dog to the base veterinarian yesterday I felt a bit like Rip Van Winkle. Things change - FAST!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Update: My nephew just got word that he absolutely will not be allowed into the Marines. They didn't even give him a chance to submit his packet with recommendation letters and an essay explaining why he has his tattoo. I think the deciding factor was because in a v-neck tshirt you can see the top of his tattoo. In a regular neck tshirt you can't, but I believe that sometimes the uniform does include a v-neck. He is very very disappointed but is now looking into the Army. Thanks for all the input and advice. I really hoped that this would turn out differently, but things do happen for a reason, so who knows......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMomof4 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Army is good! Of course, I'm a little biased! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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