Awful carseat law

[FO4UR]

At 11yrs old I was 5'3" and 75 lbs. I didn't reach 80 lbs until I was 12 (never grew any taller). Would you really have a 5'3" dc in a 5 point harness? I can't imagine being as tall as I am and being in a 5 point harness?

 

I think you would have been too tall for the Regent at 5'3" (I'd have to get out my owner's manual to know for sure). I go by body size, not age, when thinking about carseats though. So, if I had an 11yo who was much safer to ride in a 5pt harness, I would do it.

 

That's the sort of thing I want & can't buy here anywhere! :angry:

 

I ordered mine online. Britax has big sales a couple times per year...my Regent was $209 shipped. This looks like a steal...I'm a little miffed at what I paid:tongue_smilie: http://www.amazon.com/Britax-Regent-Youth-Seat-Sahara/dp/B000UCV2SC It is huge and comfy - ds loves it, but it does take up a good deal of space.

[Matryoshka]

In our car it's all about how the seatbelt fits, not how tall/old/heavy you are. If the seatbelt fits at the right place on the collarbone/shoulder, you're safe. Am I missing something more?

 

Yes, you're missing a biggie. It's actually much less dangerous to have the neck part fitting improperly than the lap belt part (although a lap belt alone is just deadly).

 

The whole restraint system has to fit correctly across a bony part of the body. If it is restraining soft tissue, it will cause internal bleeding and lacerate your organs.

 

The lap part of the belt has to fit across the hip bones rather than the abdomen. If the child's thigh bones are too short, even if it fits well while they sit all the way to the back of the seat, if their knees bend before the edge of the seat, they will tend to slide forward, and the lap belt will then slide up onto their abdomen. This is why the true test for not needing a booster is the 5-point test, but I guess they think it's too complicated for people to understand. Weight is silly - with all the kids today with weight problems, way too many short kids are being let out of boosters early because they're "heavy enough".

 

Someone posted the 5-point test the other day - was it earlier on this thread?

[Orthodox6]

CLARIFICATION TO THE LAW REVISIONS OF JUNE 2009:

 

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/public_information/pr060209.pdf

 

As explained, ALL children younger than 8 years old, UNLESS taller than 4'9" are, [by law], to travel in a "child passenger safety seat system."

 

General rules/recommendations are here:

 

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/public_information/carseat.htm

 

There is nothing which speaks of maximum age of 5. In fact, the bottom-most text of the second link notes that children 12 and under should sit in the rear seat, properly restrained.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Orthodox6

[zaichiki]

Yes, you're missing a biggie. It's actually much less dangerous to have the neck part fitting improperly than the lap belt part (although a lap belt alone is just deadly).

 

The whole restraint system has to fit correctly across a bony part of the body. If it is restraining soft tissue, it will cause internal bleeding and lacerate your organs.

 

The lap part of the belt has to fit across the hip bones rather than the abdomen.

 

Well, that can't be right. I'm 5'10" and 160 lbs and seatbelts ALWAYS slide up over my tummy. They NEVER stay on the hip bones. Do you have a suggestion for how I can keep the seatbelt in a safe place?

 

And now I'm pregnant. Ha! I wear the seatbelt, but it's NOT on the hip bones. Are there those out there suggesting I would be safter NOT in a seat belt?

 

I think all those laws out there listing weight and/or age and/or height must also be missing the point, then, if it's all about where the seatbelt fits on the hip bones.

 

How do we REALLY know when the seatbelt fits safely? There seem to be all sorts of different ideas out there.

[Lovedtodeath]

The shoulder belt doesn't fit someone whose belly sticks out, whether pregnant or overweight.

[Pamela H in Texas]

CLARIFICATION TO THE LAW REVISIONS OF JUNE 2009:

<snip>

There is nothing which speaks of maximum age of 5.

 

As you posted, the law is new. The old law is what came up on the search. The law WAS 5yrs or 36inches, both neglectfully low. Too many parents would follow just the law and not do best by their children. The new law is much more appropriate. I was unaware that the law was changing. I'm VERY happy to see that is the case :)

[kalanamak]

Leave my kids up to me.

 

Then please pay for every penny of extra damage they have in an unsecured accident...don't make MY insurance go up for your freedom.

 

Head trauma is expensive!!

[Mandy in TN]

My youngest is about 3'4" and 35 pounds. :)

Mine, too!:D

Mandy

[PiCO]

I don't think the government should make every decision for people, "even if it saves one life."

 

Each family should be able to assess the amount of risk they are willing to accept. My children were both carseat-free at 4 years old, the law in my state at the time. My your standards, my youngest would be in a carseat well into her teens, because she's very small for her age. Fortunately I am able to make my own decision.

[Mandy in TN]

For heavens sake.... womb to the tomb government care is not an answer. Now, if the parent wants to put an 8 year old in a car seat.... go for it. Leave my kids up to me. (I never used a seatbelt & used to sit in front seat.... gosh, I made it to 41... amazing) (but then cars were bigger than SODA CANS in those days ;))

 

Sorry... these nit-picking laws drive me bananas. :willy_nilly: I may be off the reservation b/c didn't get to read all the replies.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

For pete's sake let people raise their own kids! I detest that the govt wants to tell me whether or not my dc needs to be in a car seat in the back or front seat, etc etc And what about the thread recently that discussed how many infants die now because they are unintentionally left in vehicles when prior to these laws it was almost unheard of! ARGH!

 

At 5yo my oldest was tiny- offf the bottm of the growth chart and was legally out of a car seat. He had a little thingy that fit over the safety belt to adjust the shoulder strap. My youngest will be 7yo this fall and I still have to buckle him into a car seat like a newborn. I'm sorry but it's stupid. Given a change in the law you better believe that he would just have that thingy that my oldest had.

 

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

OH, and my bf from childhood and now as an adult after having three children is 4'9" and perhaps 80lbs fully clothed and dripping wet. Should we send her a carseat?

Mandy

[Dirtroad]

Does anyone realize how many tax dollars goes towards Post traumatic stress disorder classes for workers who deal with the decisions that are supposedly yours?

I am sorry, I STAND FIRM on this issue. I worked a wreck nearly 12 yrs ago where 4 children died. 2 were thrown from the car--only wearing lap belts, and 2 had SEVERE head injuries. The parents had their seat belts on. They had minor injuries, but all four children died. The children were ages 6-12. :001_huh:

There were 23 of us that worked that wreck. 18 of us are no longer in EMS. How could we really go back. We went to PTSD classes for 9 mos. The images of those children are still in my mind everyday today. The parents are now divorced, and one is a severe alcoholic.

I am one of the first to say that government needs to let us raise our children, but, this is a different matter. This is not really any different then driving the speed limit. A child bouncing around the back seat can be distracting which could cause you to his someone else. It becomes a public issue real fast.

The reason car manufacturers are not making car seats in the cars, is that not all cars are for kids. They are responsible for making the cars safe for adults. If you add this to their guidelines, then the price of cars is going to go up a ton. Do you want to pay another $3000 for your car so that I can have 6 car seats in my 15 pass van? I don't think so. You would prolly rather pay for 1 carseat for your 1 child then pay for mine too. ;) You need to figure in the cost of the designing, safety tests, and all that into how much the car industry would have to up the price of EVERY single car they sale. ;)

 

NO matter what the LAW Is on the books.... the families who don't care... STILL WON"T CARE! IT is just another burden on those who try to obey every law! The fines don't work. What do you do... take the kids, put them in foster care... they don't have the room! Take the parents to jail.... help them lose a job & not be able to work, pay bills, feed kids.... it is a system without any real ability to enforce it. It just makes "do-gooders" and politicians feel good.

 

I am sure California has seatbelt laws & 5 kids died a couple of days ago b/c thrown from a pick up.

 

This type of nanny state law only works for those who care! I am sorry, but people trained in emergency care know what they are in for... and their ability to handle the horror of their profession is NO reason to manipulate laws to have 8 year olds in car seats or Mamas feel like criminals b/c their 5' tall 8 year old isn't strapped into a special seat.

 

Picking pieces up off a road is hard.... regardless of seatbelts & car seats.

 

I have an uncle who died when hit by a drunk driver. He always wore his seat belt... but for some reason that afternoon, he didn't. THANK GOD! He was thrown & killed immediately. Had he been in that vehicle, he would have been crushed from waist down & died slowly and screaming like the other driver. You should have seen the tire position, the engine & where he would have been sitting. The other man screamed until jaws of life removed the engine from his legs... then he got quiet & died. My uncle didn't have such trauma.... nor did the EMTs have as much to "clean up" with him.

 

Every case is different & has horrific details. So, arguments are always there for both sides. But the ability for trauma care & EMS workers to not have the horrific situations is irrelevant. I do not mean that harshly.... but it is part of the job & what makes some so passinate to help. FIL was an ambulance driver... heard many stories... and that was before paramedics could clean them up and medicate.

[WiseOwlKnits]

Sorry if this has been posted already - not interested in the carseat debate so I'm not sifting through all 7 pages. BUT - Pamela, I did want to tell you that we live in TX too and they changed the rule THIS year about the age to be out of a booster seat. It goes into effect Sept. 1st.

 

So TX law will cover kids under 8 and under 4'9" beginning Sept. 1st.

 

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6453906.html

[hornblower]

There is a large population of ethnic chinese in my area & some DO use various booster arrangements to drive. What's wrong with that? They're small & the cars are large. A person whose seatbelt is not fitting correctly is at greater risk of internal injuries or of sliding under the seatbelt.

 

To me this discussion is along the lines of "why we had that lead painted crib in our family for ages and it didn't hurt me none! And Grandpa always had a bacon and eggs for breakfast & smoked a pack a day & had a whiskey every day & he lived practically forever! And Daddy drove after drinking a 6 pack and he never had any trouble!" Yeah, so what. N=1 doesn't prove anything.

 

Odds are, getting into a car with your child is the single most dangerous thing you do in your life.

 

From the CDC:

 

"Motor vehicle injuries are the leading cause of death among children in the U.S."

 

"In the United States during 2005, 1,335 children ages 14 years and younger died as occupants in motor vehicle crashes, and approximately 184,000 were injured. That’s an average of 4 deaths and 504 injuries each day."

 

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/childpas.htm

 

We worry about so many things (from predators to plastics in the microwave) but this is one single, concrete thing you can do to reduce your child's risk in a big way.

 

I can see the bigger issue of whether the gov't should or should not mandate this - though I'm firmly on the should side - but I cannot understand the comments which imply these guidelines are somehow stupid.

[Dirtroad]

Then please pay for every penny of extra damage they have in an unsecured accident...don't make MY insurance go up for your freedom.

 

Head trauma is expensive!!

 

I have insurance. They are my kids. They are secure... but they don't have to be wrapped in extra layers of styofoam & plastic to be that way. They don't have to follow arbitrary guidelines that helicopter moms & politicians set to feel good about themselves.

 

I also drive a vehicle with substance & not a tin can. That will do more to protect them than a plastic box & a harness. (ah, until environmental laws get so "out there" that we all have to drive modified golf carts or cars that can ride onto an elevator & be parked by our desks like the P-50 )

 

You are not reading my posts b/c I kept my kids in the seats as law required. (don't assume they were not & imply neglect or others superior decision making over mine)..... They rode in the seats when they were T.I.N.Y.... not at 8 years old & tall as I am. But i was glad to get them out of those things b/c they were uncomfortable, wouldn't allow them to sleep on long drives, and were hot.

 

It is my job as a parent who cares & is informed to make these decisions. Not my neighbors... not my mothers... and not a politician with NO idea about what he is even voting on or why.. he is just listening to whispers of insurance lobbyist!

 

My point is.... those who don't care about their kids... wont' care regardless of how good all of you feel about laws that burden the responsible and really do little to curb the irresponsible.

 

MY POINT was ... if a Mom is going 70 in a car with little ones climbing all over.... she has MORE issues than the stupid carseat. I would imagine an alert cop would get her on alcohol, meth, abuse, and counts of neglect or more serious traffic violations.

 

As for insurance... if we had not become a nation wanting others to pay for our way or our mistakes.... we wouldn't have need for gov't & insurance "saviors" and would pay our own way. I would love ot see all insurance gone & we pay the REAL value of medical care and accident repair. Oh, and get rid of lawyers looking for a new condo by taking cases way over a real value of need & care. But that is another can of worms....;)

 

If we would all just quit driving & never enter such dangerous conditions... we would never die in a car accident. That is the BEST solution of prevention of all auto related deaths... really.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Dirtroad

[camibami]

MY 8 year old is in a high backed booster still. She is only 43 pounds, and we live in a really crowded, accident prone city in Asia. No way in H-E-double-hockey-sticks am I letting her ride unsafe just because "she's 8" and "everyone is doing it".

 

My 11 year old still has a booster- she is too short for the seatbelt to hit her shoulders properly.

 

I don't really get being upset about unhealthy food additives, plastics in water bottles, etc but not doing something so much more likely to really save your child's life.

[hornblower]

And about the argument that the laws are pointless because people who would do the right thing will do it anyway.......

 

wouldn't that apply to ALL laws? Do people really say "oh I want to kill that guy but golly, it's against the law so I better not?" Should we get rid of the law because we still have murderers?

[Renee in NC]

MY 8 year old is in a high backed booster still. She is only 43 pounds, and we live in a really crowded, accident prone city in Asia. No way in H-E-double-hockey-sticks am I letting her ride unsafe just because "she's 8" and "everyone is doing it".

 

My 11 year old still has a booster- she is too short for the seatbelt to hit her shoulders properly.

 

I don't really get being upset about unhealthy food additives, plastics in water bottles, etc but not doing something so much more likely to really save your child's life.

 

If my dc were the size of yours, they would still be in boosters/seats at those ages. My 8yo is 4'9", so he is no longer required to ride in a booster.

[Renee in NC]

And about the argument that the laws are pointless because people who would do the right thing will do it anyway.......

 

wouldn't that apply to ALL laws? Do people really say "oh I want to kill that guy but golly, it's against the law so I better not?" Should we get rid of the law because we still have murderers?

 

No, because laws allow for punishment if you break them. People are not more likely to murder because their is no law, but a murderer might have more victims of there were no earthly consequences.

[fivetails]

That's the sort of thing I want & can't buy here anywhere! :angry:

 

 

 

I ordered mine online. Britax has big sales a couple times per year...my Regent was $209 shipped. This looks like a steal...I'm a little miffed at what I paid:tongue_smilie: http://www.amazon.com/Britax-Regent-Youth-Seat-Sahara/dp/B000UCV2SC It is huge and comfy - ds loves it, but it does take up a good deal of space.

 

That does look like a good deal :)- but unfortunately, they only ship within the US, it says. Our Canadian Amazon doesn't sell stuff like that; they really should!

[hornblower]

No, because laws allow for punishment if you break them. People are not more likely to murder because their is no law, but a murderer might have more victims of there were no earthly consequences.

 

But then that's just an argument for bigger consequences, isn't it? In BC the fine for driving with improperly restrained kids is over a $100/offense & I think it goes towards the points on your licence (just like speeding etc tickets). Too many points & you lose the licence.....

[BabyBre]

You can keep your child in a carseat as long as you'd like and have a carseat that supports them. I assume your law is a minimum requirement, but if you're not comfortable with it, keep your carseats around.

[Aggie]

My short 11yo is still in a booster, and will be there till she's 4'9", which at this rate could be 12 or even 13. At which point she still won't be close to the 80 lbs (I think she's 60-something now), but from everything I've read it's the height, leg length and where the belt falls on their hips and collarbone that's important, not the weight. My taller 11yo has been out for quite a while. I don't care one whit that one twin is in a booster and one isn't. The laws of physics in a car crash don't care if some idiot taunting kid thinks boosters are for babies - the kid is still improperly restrained and at risk for a lot more than ridicule. I make her short 11yo friend sit in a booster if I'm driving as well.

 

And yes, some adults could probably use boosters - the seats and belts in front are still designed for 180 lb. men.

 

And based on an article Laura Corin sent a while back, nor will any of my kids be in the front seat till they're 14, no matter how tall or heavy. That was a very compelling article (that bone density changes in puberty are the most important thing for front seat safety, and that those changes are not present in most kids till 14, even if they're tall/heavy as an adult).

 

Same here. Our 12yodd just got out of her booster seat. And, our just-turned-8yods is still in a car seat. He's short and light and we don't believe it would be safe for him to be in a booster seat yet.

[Mandy in TN]

There have been unsafe chemicals used in the making of carseats. There have been carseat recalls. There have been studies that seem to indicate that the current design of newborn carseat models can cause a newborns head to flop forward restricting breathing and therefore newborns should be checked frequently when in one (how can you check them when they have to be in the back seat). There has been an increase in newborn fatalities due to newborns being unintentionally left in vehicles. Other studies show that few carseats do anything to protect a child in a side impact.

 

I am sorry but I am not at all certain that 20 years from now our children are going to look back on current carseat laws and say, "Wow. Wasn't that wonderful!" It is just as likely that they will be laughing at them as we now laugh at the backseat cribs that my parents used for me.

 

Mandy

[Dirtroad]

My DH wonders how many attentive Moms have had accidents constantly checking on the newborn infant facing the opposite way in the back seat from her.... even with the new gadgets/mirrors, the child is still way out of your natural range of vision. Hmmm, maybe someone should do a study on it.;)

[Christine]

Doesn't some law say something like 80 pounds and/or 8yrs old?

 

 

 

Ours says "under 8 years old must ride in an appropriate child restraint unless the child is 4'9" or weighs more than 65 lbs."

[phathui5]

Not to mention, the fines for these laws are so minimal. I know in CT the fine is like $10. What is the point?

 

 

I think you should get points on your license for it.

[Katiebug_1976]

Honestly, I don't want a law that tells me I have to keep my 48 pound/just under 4ft tall 10 year old son in a car seat or booster seat. At some point I have to be allowed to parent and make the best decisions for my children.

 

:iagree: I'm not one to promote excessive government control. While I do think that a child should remain in a carseat until they reach a size that is safe for them to sit w/o one, I do not think the government should have control over that decision. If the government has rules/laws about everything, then where does that leave parent to use their own God given common sense? Just my opinion. :001_smile:

[phathui5]

Why can't car companies make seat belts that fit elementary aged children? About 50% of people in cars fall in this range. I think it is a money racket put on us by car seat manufacturers. Seat belts don't hit me correctly and I'm 5"3". They choke me.

 

My biggest problem is getting 3 car seats to fit across my car. I think if we are required to have our elementary aged children in car seats, car seats should be REQUIRED to be made to fit 3 across the back SAFELY. I don't think my car seats are safe because they are jammed across. There is not one thing I can do about that. I'm complying with the law, but they don't require the law to accommodate cars! Anyone know why they are allowed to design car seats that won't fit 3 across correctly? What are we supposed to do with our kids in this situation? Not go anywhere? Only be allowed to have 2 children??????

 

What kind of car seats do you have? I can fit three of our Radians in a car.

[Blessedfamily]

What kind of car seats do you have? I can fit three of our Radians in a car.

 

I have a Radian because I wanted my big girl to stay in a 5 point harness. The Radian is the hardest car seat to install I have ever seen. :glare: I literally almost dislocated my shoulder putting it in, but it's tight and properly installed, and I love it.

 

The 1yo is in a Britax. It's easy.

[Lovedtodeath]

Isn't there a 5 point harness that is portable, not a car seat? Anyone know what I am talking about? My DD is very uncomfortable in a booster. She wears a size 10-12. She is not fat... but it is hard to get in and out of her old booster seat with the back.