Help with uncooperative learner - PLEASE!!!!!

[Kelly in IL]

I have one child who is totally and completely unmotivated to do or learn anything. She doesn't want to put effort into anything, least of all anything related to school work. We have tried several different curriculums, trying to find one that "fits," but the only one that she would actually attempt would be the one that required her to do nothing.

 

 

We have punished, cajoled, restricted, motivated and tried explaining in every way we can think of (and have actually even talked to a counselor, who said she thought we had tried everything she knew of!) and still cannot get this child to sit down and do her work. I even took to heart another post that said the poster was going with CLE light units to try to de-stress her homeschooling year. Purchased all the light units and still work from 9:00 until bedtime making my daughter do the work over and over again because she won't do it and do it right.

 

What do you do with your unmotivated learner? Have you come up with anything that works?

 

Thanks!

[JennW in SoCal]

You don't say how old this child is or how long you've been homeschooling her. But here are a few suggestions that work especially well all the way through middle school. You first have to let go of your notion of what school "should" look like for a while (even for a few years.)

 

Read aloud. Drop everything else for a while and just read aloud some classic literature that she would enjoy. Talk about it as you read, talk about the characters you like and dislike, guess about where the plot is going, try to get her to join in such a conversation. Even if she won't join in, keep on reading aloud. Look at maps of the area the story takes place. Explain things like telegraphs or party lines or corsets -- whatever items are in the story but not around today. Let her draw if she'd like while you read, or knit or crochet.

 

Use her interests to your advantage. If she is obsessed about horses, then get stacks of horse books from the library. You can cover science, history and literature with a subject like horses or other animals. If she is into theater you can have her design costumes or sets for favorite stories; if it is music, you can find lots of books on music and DVDs and biographies of musicians. It takes some creativity, but most anything can be turned into a "learning experience". There are math curricula based upon sports statistics, for instance!

 

Do 20 minutes of math together on a white board while sprawled on the living room floor. You write out the problem and she solves it. Or you are can be the scribe. Draw silly pictures to go with the math lesson. Have snacks available, offer tokens that can be redeemed for a Blockbuster rental each weekend. But insist on those 20 minutes and do it together.

 

If you feel she must do some writing, make it about her interests or reading. Choose sentences from your reading for dictation, have her write a short narration once a week on something she's read. If she's young, let her dictate. If she's older have her learn to type and use the computer. If she is an artsy creative type, have her design scrap book type pages, but include writing with it.

 

My oldest hit a period like this in middle school, but he matured out of it and restarted his brain again as high school and especially college starting seeming a reality. I was pulling my hair out during those "uncooperative" years, but made a point to keep reading aloud to him. It didn't look like what I though school should be, but I knew it was a good thing and that he was still learning so much by being exposed to good literature and by us talking together.

 

Give it a try -- it is far better than battling all day over the details in a prepackaged curriculum.

[melissel]

I think there was a great thread about this not long ago. I can't think of any of the keywords, but if I can find it, I'll link it for you.

[eclecticmom]

It is so frustrating to teach to someone who isn't listening. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It sounds like you've addressed the problem with a lot of good solutions - trying to find a curriculum that fits, etc.

 

It helped me with my daughter to back up to what was causing the problem. Her problem was a learning style issue (all body movement and few books) so switching curriculum a couple of times hit the mark.

 

You've identified it as a lack of motivation. Do you think this stems from laziness or obstinance? Or is it from something else? Are there any learning problems? Sometimes there are underlying relationships or attitudes (like wanting it to fail so they can be with their friends in public school) that can cause issues. If you can pinpoint the motivational problem more and give more details about age, etc., we might be able to come up with some helpful tactics.

[Ellie]

I, too, would want to know how old this child is, or how long you've been hsing.

 

It is not that she is unmotivated to learn. All children want to learn. It is that she is not motivated to learn the way you think she should.

[Kelly in IL]

Thanks for all the support! It was such a joy to find a place to bounce ideas (and sometimes frustrations!) off other homeschool moms. My daughter is 14 and we have always homeschooled. I tried using Sonlight for years, thinking that if I was exposing her to such great literatue, she couldn't help but learn. She would never actively participate in talking about/answering questions about the books we read, and I always had the impression she wasn't really listening. I started going with the other curriculums trying to find a way I could measure whether she was actually getting anything out of her lessons. I think it is mostly obstinance, because one day she will be doing something in English and know what to do, and the next day she insists she has never heard of it before. Today she was telling me she had no idea what an adverb or adjective is and I was still fighting with her to underline them at 6:00 tonight when she had to leave to go to VBS. I KNOW she knows what they are because I have taught them and retaught them and gone over hundreds of exercises with her. But she refuses to do anything on her own unless I am sitting right there going over each and very question with her, and even then she tries to act like she doesn't have a clue what to do and wants me to give her the answers.

 

Thanks again for all the thoughts!

Kelly

[Tap]

Have you ever had her assessed by a learning specialist? I have heard this story often with kids who have a hard time moving information from their short term memory to their long term memory. If they have just be taught something they can do it, but not the next day, or next week. Somethings get into long term memory in pieces so they can do parts of problems, but not the entire problem.

 

I would seriously have her assessed for learning issues (not intelligence-but how a child learns) and also have her learning modality identified.

 

For instance: I personally hate learning auditorily, I can learn anything visually, but if I don't have a visual, I will never remember. If someone tells me something like directions, I have to write them down so I have a visual or convert the words into pictures in my mind.

[Peela]

What does motivate her? What floats her boat? What is she passionate about?

I have found it is just about impossible to teach an uncooperative child- you have to somehow engage their cooperation. For most kids, a threat of punishment or some sort of reward (such as having free time if one finishes all their work ) is enough, if they put up resistance.

What is your relationship with her like other than homeschooling? Are you a single mum? Do you have other kids? Is it just her you have such a hard time with?

Surely if you put her in her room with a set amount of work and made her not come out until it was done- no meals, nothing- she would eventually do it? Or woudl she just come out anyway? Or, could you actually do that or woudl you be in there helping her?

It sounds like perhaps some unhealthy patterns have been set up over time and this isnt just a new thing?

[IsabelC]

Might be a stupid question, but have you tried really getting to the bottom of what she feels is the problem?

 

There are so many reasons a child might not be learning. Maybe she has learning difficulties and it's all too hard for her, or maybe she is gifted and everything is boring. Maybe she has low self-esteem or is afraid of failing, or even afraid of success. Maybe she is feeling powerless and using the schoolwork as leverage to feel powerful over you. Maybe she sees some other payoff to her current behaviour, for example feels that she can get more of your attention by not doing well. I think the biggest question is whether she is UNABLE to do what you expect, or ABLE but UNWILLING.

 

The first is probably easier to solve as it's just a matter of getting her specific difficulties diagnosed by a trusted professional or team and working from there. The second is trickier, because ultimately you can't force somebody to learn. Even if you locked her in her room until she completed the set work, you couldn't stop her from doing the bare minimum and then forgetting it all by the next week. So I think that if she is able to do the work but chooses not to, it's crucial to find out why, otherwise anything you do could be counterproductive. For example if you think that she is feeling powerless and decide to give her more autonomy until she comes to the work herself, this is going to be disastrous if what she really needs is stronger guidance and leadership from you.

[Beebalm]

How DO you get a child evaluated for learning difficulties/differences? I also struggle with my dd about motivation and have wondered about testing. It seems we can't ever get to anything fun because we're struggling to get the basics covered every day. I want school to be so rewarding and exciting, but she just sees it as a chore. BTW, we give standardized test each year and she does okay, but school just shouldn't be this HARD.

[Chris in VA]

You've been given excellent advice already. I just noticed one thing in your post, and wanted to comment on it:

 

work from 9:00 until bedtime making my daughter do the work over and over again because she won't do it and do it right.

 

I would stop making her do her work over and over. Give her a time to end, and work again the next day. It's got to be discouraging her. I can't imagine working on something, never getting it right, and having to laboriously do it again and again. Personally, I would find this incredibly un-motivating, and wouldn't look forward to doing school if I thought I would have to endure this every day.

 

I think once you pinpoint what's truly happening, things will get easier.

[kwg]

I think I might ask her to pick a topic to learn and then let her pick out resources for it from the library. Have you tried that? And for the first few times (at least--maybe more) I would let her pick whatever it was even if it was nt a core subject. Then I think -after a while- hopefully I could point out and she could understand why it is important to recognize grammar, how math fits in, etc.

 

Maybe she needs some confidence and control over what she is doing.

[lgm]

I find this website helpful:

http://www.disciplinehelp.com/parent/detail.cfm?behaviorID=28&title=The%20Do%2DNothing&step=Action

 

One of my children stopped cooperating in 7th grade in public school..we turned the control over to him, explained the state law on schooling, and told him to make a decision as far as his preferred method of schooling. Homeschool, public, private, online, unschool, baording, whatever..the caveat was that he must put in a reasonable effort to pursue excellence, not do nothing or do the assignments quickly at a poor quality level to get them over with. The discussion turned up a problem that required an evaluation with an occupational therapist and some remediation as well as some recalibrating of his teachers' expectations on 'effort'.

 

Having been there with the all-night homework party (my kid chose to stay in public school), I learned that the kid didn't know how to do the work or how to ask for help. He looked like he was stalling, but really he didn't have a clue. To get him back to happiness, we took the homework assignments and some hot chocolate and sat down each evening after supper. He had to read each assignment and explain his action plan to me. If he had no plan, he learned that he was missing the concepts supposedly taught in class (not all his fault). From that, I could probe and figure out how and what needed explaining so he could do the work. When he was done with the homework, he had to teach a parent the concept...if there was not enough time, he could do that the next day. As his happiness and competency increased, we dropped that to explaining one subject per night.

 

Also, scheduling in parent talk time, heavy aerobic exercise, and life skills goes a long way to increase happiness and get academic work done efficiently.

 

On your example, are you assigning work she already knows in order to review? Could it be presented as a warmup, done orally and then she could get on to new mat'l and engage her brain?

[kristamaranatha]

I too am a Type A personality, so I can probably relate a little to your dd. I love school, but find myself unmotivated when bored or when overly under pressure. Also, nagging is a complete turn-off, and in the past has caused me to shut down even when I enjoy the work I'm doing. I thrive when doing what I love at my own pace. Don't get me wrong, deadlines are extremely important and it is reasonable to be expected to meet them. Work needs to be completed on time. Also, necessary classes cannot be skipped just because I don't like them. But doing what I love to do is much better than being forced to take a class I would rather not when the option is available. I'm now working towards my college degree, so this has worked even under high-stress deadlines of college life. Pinpoint your daughter's passions and get her to do projects on those things. If she likes American History, let her do reading, geography and history work with that focus. If she is tactile, let her study art or music. Or let her create lapbooks and things to help her learn material in visual ways. I hope this helps.

[mom2abcd]

No advice, but only commiseration. I'm subscribing to this thread

[Mandy in TN]

It may just be puberty, but I would be concerned enough to go ahead and have her checked for LDs.

 

Both of my big boys hit puberty and their brains leaked out their ears.

 

My oldest is dyslexic and he was a pill. He was never disruptive or in any way verbally defiant. He just never accomplished what I knew he could. He just didn't care and no amount or type of coercion on my part worked.

 

This past year he had a goal of doing better on the math section of the ACT in order to take dual enrollment math classes this school year. He really pursued math on his own. This is true of my oldest across the board. It has to be something the he values and in which he has a clearly defined goal. Is there any way you can help her value her work and help her find a goal?

 

My second ds is a pleaser. He wants to make me happy, but he hit puberty and suddenly forgot the past several years worth of education! All of a sudden he just couldn't get the information out of his brain. We backed way up and spent last year doing a lot of review. He is currently 15yo and I have high hopes that this year we will move forward.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

I would stop making her do her work over and over. Give her a time to end, and work again the next day. It's got to be discouraging her. I can't imagine working on something, never getting it right, and having to laboriously do it again and again. Personally, I would find this incredibly un-motivating, and wouldn't look forward to doing school if I thought I would have to endure this every day.

:iagree:

[FlockOfSillies]

For a different perspective, you might want to read Ending the Homework Hassle by John Rosemond. It's written from a traditional school viewpoint, but there are lots of suggestions in there that I think you'd find helpful.

 

Bottom line is, she needs to take responsibility for her own work, and you need to break the hovering-Mom cycle, because it will reinforce her dependency on you to stand over her all day.

[LizzyBee]

...one day she will be doing something in English and know what to do, and the next day she insists she has never heard of it before. Today she was telling me she had no idea what an adverb or adjective is and I was still fighting with her to underline them at 6:00 tonight when she had to leave to go to VBS. I KNOW she knows what they are because I have taught them and retaught them and gone over hundreds of exercises with her. But she refuses to do anything on her own unless I am sitting right there going over each and very question with her, and even then she tries to act like she doesn't have a clue what to do and wants me to give her the answers.

 

Thanks again for all the thoughts!

Kelly

 

I haven't read all the responses yet, but has she been evaluated by an educational psychologist or neuropsychologist? Knowing something one day and not the next is a classic sign of learning disabilities. Learning disabilities are not related to intelligence; people can be brilliant and still have a brain that's wired in such a way that certain types of academic tasks are very difficult.

 

My 13 yo has "known" cursive writing since 3rd grade. She practiced it daily for years. Last year, we went to Disneyworld and I gave everyone their key card to sign. She got a deer-in-the-headlights look, her face turned red, and she had absolutely no idea how to sign her name. I had to write it so she could copy it. When we got home, I had her do some cursive handwriting sheets, thinking she'd pick it up again with a little practice. It's now been several months since she practiced cursive, and she doesn't remember it again. She is very intelligent, but there are certain things that she just can't remember.

 

If your dd is coming across as obstinate, it might that she would rather be perceived as obstinate than stupid. This is VERY common with kids who have LDs. Deep down inside, they think they're stupid and they're terrified that other people will realize it.

 

Your dd might not have LDs and I'm not trying to convince you that she does; I'm just saying it's something you should consider if it has not already been ruled out.

[LizzyBee]

How DO you get a child evaluated for learning difficulties/differences? I also struggle with my dd about motivation and have wondered about testing. It seems we can't ever get to anything fun because we're struggling to get the basics covered every day. I want school to be so rewarding and exciting, but she just sees it as a chore. BTW, we give standardized test each year and she does okay, but school just shouldn't be this HARD.

 

For a comprehensive evaluation, a neuropsychologist or educational psychologist is the way to go. We used the Psychoeducational Clinic at NCSU which was considerably cheaper than a private practitioner. The clinic is part of the psychology dept and many universities have them. Medical insurance will sometimes pay part of the bill, but usually not all of it, often only a small portion.

[Night Elf]

I would stop making her do her work over and over. Give her a time to end, and work again the next day. It's got to be discouraging her. I can't imagine working on something, never getting it right, and having to laboriously do it again and again. Personally, I would find this incredibly un-motivating, and wouldn't look forward to doing school if I thought I would have to endure this every day.

 

I think once you pinpoint what's truly happening, things will get easier.

 

:iagree: Oh my. That seems like a terribly unnecessary pressure to put on both parent and child.