s/o this just sends my mind spinning - minors charged as adults

[Audrey]

I think you have to be a seriously damaged person to commit such an atrocity. But, I don't think that jail is necessarily the best way to deal with a seriously damaged 14-year-old.

 

IMO, he obviously needs to be removed from society, but he also needs some intensive intervention, and possibly psychiatric care.

[Audrey]

Nothing can be done to rehabilitate this animal!

 

 

 

 

Not really picking on you... but I kind of hate it when people call other people animals for doing something atrocious. Animals are better than that. Only people have the capacity for perpetrating such horrors on each other.

[Impish]

Also, is the damage done to the girl the most important thing? I mean, isn't justice supposed to take precedence (sorry for my spelling) over the victim? The damage is done, but what of justice?

Yes the damage done to her is what justice is supposed to be about. Its punishing the guilty for what they have done to the innocent. The idea that everyone can be rehabbed is faulty from the word go. Punishment is very much a part of the justice system, as it should be.

 

And forgive me, because I'm sure its one of those 'it didn't come across online as it was meant to' situations, but it bothers me to no end that the victim is being dismissed as 'damage done' and interest now resides solely on the perp. The guilty should never be accorded more consideration, concern, rights, sensitivities than the innocent.

 

Unfortunately, in North America, they always are it seems.

 

And, fwiw, any police officer and Crown Attorney I've met (Crown Atty = DA) refers to it as the 'legal system' not the 'justice system' because often justice isn't done. Too many guilty walk in their eyes. I know that one first hand, unfortunately.

[Renai]

 

Someone convince me, please, because all I see here is a kid that's looking at a future of rape in jail, followed by a couple of steps into public just to wind back up in jail, the only world he would've known his whole adult life.

 

IOW, I just want to understand. :(

 

 

I used to work at a high-security, juvenile prison for males ages 10-19. This was not a home or a detention center, but a prison. Younger and smaller-statured boys were in a separate dorm than the older boys for their protection. 96% of dorm 6B were sex offenders. One 10 year had been raping his sister for years before he was caught, because she used to "make him mad." But yet, he was 10. And acted very much like a 10 year. Except for the fact that he felt what he did was justified because she should not have made him mad. I could tell more stories like that from the other 10-13 year olds on that dorm, but I won't.

 

This was a long-term facility for juveniles (there were also murderers, drug dealers, gangsters, etc, and one passing through on his way to being deported back to Guatemala, alone). When they get out, the ones in for rape and other such crimes will be registered as sex offenders. There is no sealing that crime. The 10 year old isn't even allowed out until his sister (about 4 years younger than him) turns 21--hmmm, he still has another 2 or so years to go...

 

It is well-known that these types of offenders are the hardest to rehabilitate. 98% of them will re-offend. What do we do with them? Just because the 14 year old is tried as an adult does not mean he goes to adult prison. More than likely, he will be taken to an age-appropriate facility much like the one I worked in. He will have more opportunities for counseling, including with his family (depending on the system he goes to), continue his education (remember schooling is compulsory), and perhaps because it is a cultural manifestation, maybe there is a chance for rehabilitation. I know in our facility, the ones that showed more potential of rehabilitation (I don't know how they worked that formula) was sent to another facility that specialized in juvenile sex crimes. They said their rehabilitation rate was pretty good.

 

But, that's my long, drawn-out story just to say, just because he is tried as an adult, doesn't mean he will live them. At least until he's about 19-20.

 

My heart goes out to the little girl.

[hsmamainva]

I haven't read much about this case in particular, but have personal experience with minors being charged as adults.

 

My SIL's best friend from college was shot to death by her oldest son (he also shot and killed his dad and his two younger brothers, ages 12 and 8). He was 15 and the crime happened a week before he turned 16. His Dad was a lawyer and the prosecution alleged that he knew that if he killed his family after he turned 16, he'd face the death penalty but, because he was still 15, the maximum he could face would be life in prison.

 

Needless to say, he has serious mental health issues ... that the parents never shared with anyone. Never sought counseling for him, etc.

 

He was charged as an adult with 4 counts of 1st degree murder and he was convicted, but sentenced to life in a mental health institution / psychiatric facility.

 

There are no winners on either side. Jail certainly wouldn't have "reformed him"....nor would it have brought his family back.

 

From reading the other posts, I'm not sure where I stand on this case. It definitely appears premeditated.

 

An even bigger tragedy is the way the family is treating the victim!!! I can't even fathom that! :crying:

[OHGrandma]

I wonder if the father of the girl will be charged with abandonment?

 

Not only should the 14 year old be tried as an adult, the 13 year old should be, too.

[5kidsforME]

You are right, gang rape, any kind of rape, is wrong. I'm just not sure that putting him in prison will right it.

 

Nothing will EVER right it. Nothing. Nothing will ever right it for the girl that was raped or other women/men/boys/girls that are raped. There are consequences though. Being charged as an adult is his consequence. Being sent to jail is his consequence. At this point IMO it’s not about the boy and his future. It’s about the victim and the justice they should get. It's about potential victims of his that will never be victimized by him.

 

Her life will never be the same. I don't think his should either.

[lionfamily1999]

IMO, he obviously needs to be removed from society, but he also needs some intensive intervention, and possibly psychiatric care.

:iagree:

Yes the damage done to her is what justice is supposed to be about. Its punishing the guilty for what they have done to the innocent. The idea that everyone can be rehabbed is faulty from the word go. Punishment is very much a part of the justice system, as it should be.

 

And forgive me, because I'm sure its one of those 'it didn't come across online as it was meant to' situations, but it bothers me to no end that the victim is being dismissed as 'damage done' and interest now resides solely on the perp. The guilty should never be accorded more consideration, concern, rights, sensitivities than the innocent.

 

Unfortunately, in North America, they always are it seems.

 

And, fwiw, any police officer and Crown Attorney I've met (Crown Atty = DA) refers to it as the 'legal system' not the 'justice system' because often justice isn't done. Too many guilty walk in their eyes. I know that one first hand, unfortunately.

 

I was not trying to dismiss the victim, but I guess I've always seen law/criminal justice/etc. to be more black and white. This is the crime, this is the punishment and because we don't want to step outside of the bounds of law, the victim is a witness, but not the reason behind the punishment. IOW, you're punished for what you've done, not who you did it too.

 

I guess I was overthinking, as far as whether or not he should be considered an adult.

I used to work at a high-security, juvenile prison for males ages 10-19. This was not a home or a detention center, but a prison. Younger and smaller-statured boys were in a separate dorm than the older boys for their protection. 96% of dorm 6B were sex offenders. One 10 year had been raping his sister for years before he was caught, because she used to "make him mad." But yet, he was 10. And acted very much like a 10 year. Except for the fact that he felt what he did was justified because she should not have made him mad. I could tell more stories like that from the other 10-13 year olds on that dorm, but I won't.

 

This was a long-term facility for juveniles (there were also murderers, drug dealers, gangsters, etc, and one passing through on his way to being deported back to Guatemala, alone). When they get out, the ones in for rape and other such crimes will be registered as sex offenders. There is no sealing that crime. The 10 year old isn't even allowed out until his sister (about 4 years younger than him) turns 21--hmmm, he still has another 2 or so years to go...

 

It is well-known that these types of offenders are the hardest to rehabilitate. 98% of them will re-offend. What do we do with them? Just because the 14 year old is tried as an adult does not mean he goes to adult prison. More than likely, he will be taken to an age-appropriate facility much like the one I worked in. He will have more opportunities for counseling, including with his family (depending on the system he goes to), continue his education (remember schooling is compulsory), and perhaps because it is a cultural manifestation, maybe there is a chance for rehabilitation. I know in our facility, the ones that showed more potential of rehabilitation (I don't know how they worked that formula) was sent to another facility that specialized in juvenile sex crimes. They said their rehabilitation rate was pretty good.

 

But, that's my long, drawn-out story just to say, just because he is tried as an adult, doesn't mean he will live them. At least until he's about 19-20.

 

My heart goes out to the little girl.

Thank you, and esp. for your "long story." It's good to know that something can be done and that I'm not completely mislead in thinking that for some of these criminals, they are just misguided kids. I'm sure his sister would not agree, she'd probably sound more like pqr. Heck, I don't even know where I stand now, but I found your story comforting in a wierd way :)

I haven't read much about this case in particular, but have personal experience with minors being charged as adults.

 

My SIL's best friend from college was shot to death by her oldest son (he also shot and killed his dad and his two younger brothers, ages 12 and 8). He was 15 and the crime happened a week before he turned 16. His Dad was a lawyer and the prosecution alleged that he knew that if he killed his family after he turned 16, he'd face the death penalty but, because he was still 15, the maximum he could face would be life in prison.

 

Needless to say, he has serious mental health issues ... that the parents never shared with anyone. Never sought counseling for him, etc.

 

He was charged as an adult with 4 counts of 1st degree murder and he was convicted, but sentenced to life in a mental health institution / psychiatric facility.

 

There are no winners on either side. Jail certainly wouldn't have "reformed him"....nor would it have brought his family back.

 

From reading the other posts, I'm not sure where I stand on this case. It definitely appears premeditated.

 

An even bigger tragedy is the way the family is treating the victim!!! I can't even fathom that! :crying:

The whole thing is deplorable.

[pqr]

Not really picking on you... but I kind of hate it when people call other people animals for doing something atrocious. Animals are better than that. Only people have the capacity for perpetrating such horrors on each other.

 

 

Audrey,

 

You are correct, with the possible exception of cats (big and small), most animals do not deliberately torture their victims.

[lionfamily1999]

Audrey,

 

You are correct, with the possible exception of cats (big and small), most animals do not deliberately torture their victims.

(picking up spoon) When it comes to their own kind though, they do attack with the intent to dominate (inserting into pot) and they do hurt with the intention of maiming (stirring), right?

 

And lol, at the stirring the pot, but I mean, they do, don't they?

[Renai]

Does a juvenile's punishment/treatment/supervision/probation end at age 18? If so, 4 years may not be enough time and that may be one of the reasons for the adult charge.

 

Not necessarily. If he gets 8 years, for example, once he reaches 19 (or 20), he would transfer to an adult facility.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Renai

[Renai]

I was under the impression that if you're tried as an adult, your punishment is as if you were an adult, iow, you would go to prison. Would he be put in juvi until he was of age?

 

I can see the unsealed records as a benefit for society.

 

 

He can be tried as a child and still be registered a sex offender when he comes out. The sealing of records is not an issue in a sex case whether tried as an adult or child.

 

I see Cadam answered about the juvi facility issue.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

Not necessarily. If he gets 8 years, for example, once he reaches 19 (or 20), he would transfer to an adult facility.

 

Oh. Thank you. I am actually very happy that I do not know the specifics of the juvenile justice system. :)

[lionfamily1999]

He can be tried as a child and still be registered a sex offender when he comes out. The sealing of records is not an issue in a sex case whether tried as an adult or child.

 

I see Cadam answered about the juvi facility issue.

I didn't think they were sealed if that was the case, but I don't know enough about this to just toss that out there, thank you for clearing that up for me.

 

 

 

 

 

If all this is true, then why wouldn't it be okay to charge him as a juvenile?

[5KidzRUs]

I know if a minor (14 year old) that raped a little boy he babysat. He was charged as a minor and records were sealed.

I only found out about him - HE WAS IN MY CHILDRENS CHURCH YOUTH GROUP - because the mom of the assaulted boy was with me when I received a predator update on an 18 year old in my area that was charged with possession of child porn.

My children and my friend both instantly recognized him - The clencher is that this person was in youth group - upstairs at church each week, with the AWANA cubbies in the next room.

So yes, I think it is horrific that the 14 year old's life is fundamentally derailed - however, so is his victims - and *IF* he gets charged as an adult there will be fewer victims out there in the future.

[lionfamily1999]

I know if a minor (14 year old) that raped a little boy he babysat. He was charged as a minor and records were sealed.

I only found out about him - HE WAS IN MY CHILDRENS CHURCH YOUTH GROUP - because the mom of the assaulted boy was with me when I received a predator update on an 18 year old in my area that was charged with possession of child porn.

My children and my friend both instantly recognized him - The clencher is that this person was in youth group - upstairs at church each week, with the AWANA cubbies in the next room.

So yes, I think it is horrific that the 14 year old's life is fundamentally derailed - however, so is his victims - and *IF* he gets charged as an adult there will be fewer victims out there in the future.

Had this boy done it again, at the youth group? IOW, were there more victims?

[Melissa in Australia]

can't they just deport all of them back to Liberia? kick them out of the country.