Why is this milk sold on the shelf and *not* in the refrigerator section!?

[Janna]

We were at Costco today having a look-see to determine if it would be a responsible, useful, and helpful membership to have (we determined it's not -for us and our buying habits). We were walking down the aisles and there in the center was a stack of Horizon milk - prepackaged, individual portioned milk. Not in the refrigerator, nor anywhere near the refrigerator section. Next to it was some Kirkland milk the same way. So I had to look and see how this could be and the only determination I could make was that it had added carageenan. Why? I mean, seriously. Why? The expiration is in November. No refrigeration necessary. I'm befuddled. Speechless really. Can anyone explain...why?

[Amber in AUS]

Is it UHT/long life milk. We can get that off the shelf but it is in different packaging to fridge milk.

[DarlaS]

You're talking about the little juice box type packages right? They're aseptically sealed and shelf stable.

 

ETA: My little grocery carries these also. I'm surprised you haven't seen them before. They've been around for years. As for carrageenan, I'm pretty sure it's from seaweed.

Edited July 19, 2009 by darlasowders

[Orthodox6]

Here is an article which explains aseptic packaging of normally highly perishable liquids:

 

http://perroneexportbrokersllc.com/ov.aspx

[Moxie]

When I was in Austria, that was the only kind of milk our local store carried.

[Janna]

Thanks for that link. I read it and I understand it, but it's gonna take me some time to accept :). Something about milk not being refrigerated seems so...wrong, LOL.

[lisasaysto]

My kids love the individual Horizon vanilla milk. It's like drinking melted ice cream. I was surprised the first time I saw it on the shelf, too.

[Radish4ever]

It's great for emergency preparation and for food banks!

[Karen sn]

Parmalat is the brand I have seen.

FWIW - Horizon is not really organic.

[ChristusG]

Karen_sn....why is Horizon not organic? We've recently begun making some diet changes and I'm now buying organic milk. Or so I thought LOL! I get it at Whole Foods but also notice that Winn Dixie carries it as well. What's the difference? I just want a milk that does not carry hormones and stuff like that.

[Shannon C]

The Horizons in my fridge says organic and it has the USDA cert. on it.

[Blessedfamily]

Here is an article which explains aseptic packaging of normally highly perishable liquids:

 

http://perroneexportbrokersllc.com/ov.aspx

 

So helpful. Funny, I saw the same pack of Horizons at a local grocery store and was going to post the same question here on the board. Now I understand.

 

I don't buy Horizons, but I really don't know the details of what standard they don't uphold.

[GailV]

It's great for emergency preparation and for food banks!

 

Exactly my thought.

 

Karen_sn....why is Horizon not organic? .

 

It has to do with how Horizon's actually treat the cows, as I recall. They don't actually let the cows out to pasture, etc., as other organic operations do and are supposed to do -- they skim by on the minimum, or less than the minimum requirements for the organic label.

 

Really, I don't remember all the details. I just googled the phrase "is horizon milk organic" to try to refresh my memory, and hit this:http://www.wisebread.com/horizon-organic-milk-is-it-all-just-lies

 

and this: http://www.organicconsumers.org/organic/feedlots060905.cfm

 

and here's another: http://greenhome.huddler.com/forum/thread/911/horizon-milk-is-not-organic-dean-foods-is-nothing-short-of-corrupt

 

and there's a whole lot more hits, too.

 

Overall, I have the impression that Horizon doesn't have a great reputation amongst people heavily into organic, sustainable agriculture.

 

Personally, I don't buy their product. But I don't buy a whole lot of dairy anyway.

Edited July 19, 2009 by GailV

[Janna]

Overall, I have the impression that Horizon doesn't have a great reputation amongst people heavily into organic, sustainable agriculture.

 

 

 

I would fit into this camp. So when I saw the milk on the shelf was Horizon, there was a part of me that thought, "what are they doing *now*?" I shouldn't be so judgemental, LOL.

 

So what's up with adding the carageenan to the milk then? I know that it's a form of seaweed, but it's used as a thickener and stabilizer usually. Why even add that to the milk if the packaging is what's keeping it from spoiling? Why not be just *milk*?

[Ellyndria]

When we visited Egypt, the only milk that was being sold was in boxes on shelves, not refridgerated.

[Colleen]

Karen_sn....why is Horizon not organic? We've recently begun making some diet changes and I'm now buying organic milk. Or so I thought LOL! I get it at Whole Foods but also notice that Winn Dixie carries it as well. What's the difference?

 

The Horizons in my fridge says organic and it has the USDA cert. on it.

Questions have been raised about Horizon's (Dean Food's) organic management practices.

 

Cornucopia Institute, a respected non-profit that works to support organic & sustainable agriculture, has a Dairy Report & Scorecard that may be helpful to you.

[Brenda in FL]

When we visited Egypt, the only milk that was being sold was in boxes on shelves, not refridgerated.

 

When we lived in Spain in 1990 this is the way milk was sold as well. Took some getting used to!

[Blessedfamily]

By the way Organic Valley sells them too. That's the one I bought for my kids once. I didn't buy it again because I didn't want them accustomed to sweet milk, but they would be convenient in some circumstances, though.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Blessedfamily
spelling

[Colleen]

 

I would fit into this camp. So when I saw the milk on the shelf was Horizon, there was a part of me that thought, "what are they doing *now*?

Needless to say, I understand that reaction. But honestly, as others have noted, shelf stable milk is nothing new ~ just new to the U.S. market. Many, many people around the world routinely drink UHT (ultra-high pasteurized) milk. Mysterious (not to mention nasty;)), perhaps, to those of us not familiar with it. Organic Valley's product line also includes shelf stable milk, btw. Carrageenan (extracted in its purest form from seaweed) acts as a stabilizer and prevents whey and curd separation.

 

Edited July 19, 2009 by Colleen

[LibraryLover]

Very common in other parts of the world.

Edited July 20, 2009 by LibraryLover

[Orthodox6]

Sweet milk? It's just plain old milk-milk. (unless you mean flavored, such as vanilla or strawberry)

 

Briefly, regarding the questions posted about Horizon. . .

 

Horizon, owned by Dean Foods, could be described as "shady" in its practices. See, for example, this article from 2006: http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_1468.cfm

 

The popular Silk soymilk brand, also owned by Dean Foods, has its own set of problems.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18228.cfm

 

By the way Organic Valley sells them too. That's the one I bought for my kids once. I didn't buy it again because I didn't want them accustomed to sweet milk, but they would be convenient in some circumstances, though.

[LibraryLover]

We were at Costco today having a look-see to determine if it would be a responsible, useful, and helpful membership to have (we determined it's not -for us and our buying habits). We were walking down the aisles and there in the center was a stack of Horizon milk - prepackaged, individual portioned milk. Not in the refrigerator, nor anywhere near the refrigerator section. Next to it was some Kirkland milk the same way. So I had to look and see how this could be and the only determination I could make was that it had added carageenan. Why? I mean, seriously. Why? The expiration is in November. No refrigeration necessary. I'm befuddled. Speechless really. Can anyone explain...why?

 

 

Carageenan is only seaweed or moss, all boiled down. Like agar-agar. It helps with shelf life and is kosher.

[Blessedfamily]

Sweet milk? It's just plain old milk-milk. (unless you mean flavored, such as vanilla or strawberry)

 

....

 

Yes, I mean flavored. They had strawberry, chocolate and vanilla. They may have it in plain, but I didn't see that at the time. I figured if they're drinking regular milk daily, why even start flavored and risk them balking at regular milk later. Thankfully they went back to the regular Organic Valley with no problems.

 

I have a question:

 

We have several grocery stores here that carry private label organics, including milk. I wonder how I can check into their standards. Sometimes private labels are actually just rebranded from major producers aren't they? I mean, I wonder if Horizon or another company could be producing the "Grocery Store" brand "organic" milk.

[Colleen]

 

We have several grocery stores here that carry private label organics, including milk. I wonder how I can check into their standards. Sometimes private labels are actually just rebranded from major producers aren't they? I mean, I wonder if Horizon or another company could be producing the "Grocery Store" brand "organic" milk.

Yes. The reality when you buy private label (or "generic") brands is that you don't know what you're getting. If you look at Cornucopia's dairy report & score card (I linked to it in a post above), you'll see that private labels earn low scores. One reason is because those doing the report could not access any information.

 

[TeacherZee]

Sweet milk? It's just plain old milk-milk. (unless you mean flavored, such as vanilla or strawberry)

 

Briefly, regarding the questions posted about Horizon. . .

 

Horizon, owned by Dean Foods, could be described as "shady" in its practices. See, for example, this article from 2006: http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_1468.cfm

 

The popular Silk soymilk brand, also owned by Dean Foods, has its own set of problems.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18228.cfm

 

Actually UHT milk is sweeter than "normal" milk. It has to do with breaking down the milk sugar to other sugars (this is also why lactose free milk is sweeter).

 

(or at least his has been my experience in the past)

[Blessedfamily]

Yes. The reality when you buy private label (or "generic") brands is that you don't know what you're getting. If you look at Cornucopia's dairy report & score card (I linked to it in a post above), you'll see that private labels earn low scores. One reason is because those doing the report could not access any information.

 

Oh dear. This is what it says-

 

"not one of the private-label marketers was willing to tell consumers, openly, where its organic milk was purchased."

 

If they couldn't find out where the milk is coming from, I don't have great hopes of finding out myself.

 

Thanks, Colleen.

[iwka]

It's very common in Europe and Middle East, but my dh (American) was freaking out too :-)

[Orthodox6]

The evaluative chart for organic milk producers from the Cornucopeia Institute, link to which I and others have posted before, includes private label brands.

 

I have a question:

 

We have several grocery stores here that carry private label organics, including milk. I wonder how I can check into their standards. Sometimes private labels are actually just rebranded from major producers aren't they? I mean, I wonder if Horizon or another company could be producing the "Grocery Store" brand "organic" milk.

[Orthodox6]

What is "UHT milk?"

 

Actually UHT milk is sweeter than "normal" milk. It has to do with breaking down the milk sugar to other sugars (this is also why lactose free milk is sweeter).

 

(or at least his has been my experience in the past)

[GailV]

What is "UHT milk?"

 

UHT stands for Ultra High Temperature.

Edited July 19, 2009 by GailV
explained an abbreviation with another abbreviation, duh

[Kate in Arabia]

It's very common in Europe and Middle East, but my dh (American) was freaking out too

 

It's only been within the past five years or so that I even saw fresh milk at the markets in Saudi. When I was living in Egypt you could either get the long-shelf-life milk, or you got super-fresh milk from the local dairy that you had to boil. I don't know how many people had access (physically or monetarily) to purchase fresh milk over the packaged one.

 

Kate

(Currently in Jiddah, KSA)