Greta Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I wonder, though, was this an empty threat to prevent pregnancy? If so, then, it's very possible their reaction to the actual situation could be very different. That's true. Shame they didn't think before they spoke. I wonder how different this might be playing out if they had, instead of threatening her, let her know she would always be loved no matter what. :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 That's true. Shame they didn't think before they spoke. I wonder how different this might be playing out if they had, instead of threatening her, let her know she would always be loved no matter what. :crying: Note to self, take care not to use empty threats. The day may come when I regret having uttered those words. Now, I'm convinced that Impish was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravengal Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I don't know if this qualifies me as a bad person or not...but I'd call her parents and let them know that she has an abortion scheduled for Friday. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this girl a 19yo? If the OP has a relationship with her, then OP should talk directly with the young woman. This young woman should be fully involved in any discussion of her situation. We are currently going through an unplanned pregnancy with our eldest dd, and it would have been extremely disrespectful for a stranger to call us with our dd's personal business. We knew our dd was pregnant before she told us, but we felt it was her decision to seek us out and solicit help/advice. When she was ready, she told us and we are dealing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phathui5 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Thanks everyone... my daughter is heartbroken... torn up over this. Her friend has an abortion scheduled for Friday. My daughter sent her a page on a baby 7 weeks along... hoping that she'll read a bit about the baby. I am proud of my daughter... she and her friend have both been physical with boyfriends and it could have been my daughter to be pregnant... my girls wishes it were her instead and grieves over the potential loss of life. It also shows my girl that these choices in relationships do have consequences. She was able to share some of her opinions and share some things from this thread... from her heart... friend to friend... her friend was open to the conversation, but her mind seems made up right now... her mom had told her that if she got pregnant, she'd be kicked out of the home and she doesn't have a place to go. And our home is packed wall to wall with the 11 of us who live here! There is literally no room for her to come here. But... she isn't willing to look at other options, either. Thanks for a great thread, I appreciate it staying so nice. She's welcome to live here. I PM'd you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I don't know if this qualifies me as a bad person or not...but I'd call her parents and let them know that she has an abortion scheduled for Friday. If someone were to do this, they need to make sure that they know that they have contributed to that decision by telling her that she would be kicked out if she became pregnant. It might not even occur to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phathui5 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 If someone were to do this, they need to make sure that they know that they have contributed to that decision by telling her that she would be kicked out if she became pregnant. It might not even occur to them. It would kill me as a parent to know that my grandchild was killed because of something I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 It would kill me as a parent to know that my grandchild was killed because of something I said. Yes, so wouldn't it be better if someone told you when you still had the time to prevent it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresatwist Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I know, believe me I know. I chose one path and someone very very dear to me chose the other. I was informed (beyond informed), the other person had one talk (with PP). I hate that the other side was not presented. I hate that she made a decision without knowing or being informed. It hurts that she has to live with this decision, while looking at my dd (we were in the same situation at the same time). It hurts to think that my dd could have a very close friend, born to my dear friend. That's why I think it is important that she know everything. That's why I think that normal ettiquette does not apply here. The ramifications are TOO life changing to simply let her stew. If she's only marinading in some of the 'facts,' then how could she be expected to make a choice she could live with? I don't know enough about PP to argue here. However, I do believe that ultimately every woman makes her own decision. I can't imagine a woman who wasn't seriously considering an abortion being casually talked into one in a twenty minute session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rita Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I don't think it would necessarily make you a bad person, but would you be prepared to be in the middle of the fallout that might ensue? What if her parents don't even know she's pregnant? What if they react very badly? You could be opening a whole bigger can of worms than you anticipated. I'm not saying not to do it, but... I'd seriously consider how you'd deal with the consequences, and be prepared to do so. What if her parents did not threaten to kick her out, but that is what she is assuming? Tough, tough, tough call. I have no idea what I would do if a friend of my child was in a similar situation. I have already told my boys that they ought not to have s*x outside of marriage, but IF they get a girl pregnant we would be supportive. Rita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresatwist Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 What if her parents did not threaten to kick her out, but that is what she is assuming? Tough, tough, tough call. I have no idea what I would do if a friend of my child was in a similar situation. I have already told my boys that they ought not to have s*x outside of marriage, but IF they get a girl pregnant we would be supportive.Rita Although I find it hard to imagine, I'm sure there are parents out there who tell their children that if they get pregnant or get someone pregnant they don't want to hear about it. As Rita said, I'm sure there are parents out there for whom such news would mean the end of the relationship with their child. What hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that there are far too many children who don't have loving homes. Foster care and adoption can be a wonderful option, but sometimes it is also a disaster. I have an adopted relative who was in 10 homes before the age of 3. Does that mean he would have been better off if he had never been born? Of course not. But, so much energy is spent trying to save the lives of the unborn and in my mind not enough is spent helping those who were born to far from ideal circumstances. That said, I know many people here have adopted and I think that's wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamamace Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 From listening to stories from a former PP doctor who performed abortions (thousands), PP not only encourages abortions, but they purposefully prescribed low dose mini-pills so that the young ladies they work with will get pregnant again "on the pill." (At least at this facility) Then guess what? They get to perform another abortion and make more money. The girls end up using abortion itself as birth control. So very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 What hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that there are far too many children who don't have loving homes. Foster care and adoption can be a wonderful option, but sometimes it is also a disaster. ....so much energy is spent trying to save the lives of the unborn and in my mind not enough is spent helping those who were born to far from ideal circumstances. The problem is there ARE plenty of loving homes, there's just waaaay too much red tape and legislation keeping loving families from children that need it. That being said, I am committed to adoption reform AND making abortion on demand illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cin Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I was adopted at birth. I would not be here. I now have an adopted son. He would not be here. That is my arguement. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Except that I have 2 adopted daughters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I was adopted at birth. I would not be here. I now have an adopted son. He would not be here. That is my arguement. Thank you for the simplicity of this argument. What more needs to be said? And why isn't this enough? I will never understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamamace Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Me neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanie in FL Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I will continue to pray. Anything is possible with prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresatwist Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 The problem is there ARE plenty of loving homes, there's just waaaay too much red tape and legislation keeping loving families from children that need it. That being said, I am committed to adoption reform AND making abortion on demand illegal. What's the difference between abortion and abortion on demand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaine Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I was adopted at birth. I would not be here. I now have an adopted son. He would not be here. That is my arguement. That's perfect. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) What's the difference between abortion and abortion on demand? By law, a woman can chose to terminate the life of her child for any reason she wishes to without any sort of "due process" or legal proceedings, as long as it's within a certain time frame (first or second trimester, in most states, I believe?). This is "abortion on demand", meaning that she doesn't have to prove to anyone that she has a justifiable reason for doing it, her wanting it is enough. She demands it, she gets it. By contrast, the law could potentially be that abortion would be allowed only under certain circumstances, and the woman would have a burden of proof to meet before she could abort. Edited July 15, 2009 by GretaLynne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresatwist Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 From listening to stories from a former PP doctor who performed abortions (thousands), PP not only encourages abortions, but they purposefully prescribed low dose mini-pills so that the young ladies they work with will get pregnant again "on the pill." (At least at this facility) Then guess what? They get to perform another abortion and make more money. The girls end up using abortion itself as birth control. So very sad. I don't doubt that there are some bad eggs (no pun intended). But, according to their website they do discuss other options with the women who go to them: If you are trying to decide if abortion is the right choice for you, you probably have many things to think about. Learning the facts about abortion may help you in making your decision. You may also want to learn more about parenting and adoption. Only you can decide what is best for you. But we are here to help. A staff member at your local Planned Parenthood health center can discuss abortion and all of your options with you and help you find the services you need. Note I got to this paragraph by following the link labeled abortion. If a young woman selects that link that suggests she's already leaning in that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresatwist Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 By law, a woman can chose to terminate the life of her child for any reason she wishes to without any sort of "due process" or legal proceedings, as long as it's within a certain time frame (first or second trimester, in most states, I believe?). This is "abortion on demand", meaning that she doesn't have to prove to anyone that she has a justifiable reason for doing it, her wanting it is enough. She demands it, she gets it. By contrast, the law could potentially be that abortion would be allowed only under certain circumstances, and the woman would have a burden of proof to meet before she could abort. So the woman would be paying legal fees to take her case to court? Who's deciding? The government? I have a lot of question about the particulars, but outlawing "abortion on demand" doesn't sound like something I could support. I don't want the government or lawyers deciding what's a "justifiable reason." I place far more trust in individual women. I think we're just going to disagree here. In any case, I'm done for the evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest forson Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I too would listen, try to draw them out. I would keep my ears open to share that there are many in the US that would love to adopt. That for all the struggles I had as I grew up I am glad my mom let me live. That Eistien's mom was unwed and choice life for her son. I would pray much and ask God to give me wisdom in speaking His words. I would silently grieve. I would pray that if at all possible the Lord would intervene in this womans life and in the child's live. I would desire Him to get glory out of this situation. I would pray for conviction that would lead to repentance. I would pray that I would be the kind of vessel that would reflect not only His truth but that I would reflect such I lifestyle that by my deeds this gal would be not just convicted but drawn to the one who gives the living water. Diane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) So the woman would be paying legal fees to take her case to court? Who's deciding? The government? I don't know. I wasn't advocating any particular scenario. Only attempting to explain the term, as I understand it. ETA: Upon further thought I realized I am advocating one particular scenario -- the mission of Feminists For Life: We are dedicated to systematically eliminating the root causes that drive women to abortion -- primarily lack of practical resources and support -- through holistic, woman-centered solutions. Women deserve better than abortion.My energies aren't focused on changing the law, because even where/when abortion is/was illegal, women will still do it if they are in desperate circumstances. So I believe the world will be better served by preventing those desperate circumstances. Edited July 15, 2009 by GretaLynne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I would also say that someday, the emotional guilt of having the abortion, would be much worse than giving it up. :iagree: I firmly believe that girls and women who are contemplating this choice should have access to extensive counseling. A friend with whom I worked closely for 12 years had a total of three abortions in the years before I knew her. Every year she would make mention of the children she would have and what their ages would be had she not aborted them. The emotional toll an abortion must take on a young woman is difficult to understand, but so important to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I just can't help but think that a school year lasts 9 months... surely she could find a way to hide the pg and someone could adopt. I know plenty of homeschool families have mentioned hiring a "mother's helper" for the year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysparkler Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I'd do a lot more listening than talking. :) If she wants your opinions I would bet that she would ask... and she may be getting more than she wants from everyone else. She will be much more receptive to your thoughts if she knows that you care enough to listen to hers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Now I am angry. This girl is being forced into an abortion because she otherwise won't have a place to live. Where the *^%^$ is the boy? Will his parents take her in? It is a terrible thing when a girl has to decide between the life of her child and the only home she knows. I agree. I would let her know too that being kicked out is scary as h&*^ BUT it is a far more difficult to overcome an abortion. Like I mentioned in my earlier post I was kicked out the day I found out I was pg. My mom told me from the time I was 13 on I would be. I was 20 and a university student not a teen but she was true to her word and I was out on my a$$. It was scary, it did make things harder BUT it was something easy to remedy in a very short time. The end result was that it made me a better mother because I was forced to care for my son 100% on my own. WIth this being her motivator to have an abortion, I can almost guarantee she will resent her mother for the rest of her life, likely move out within the year anyway and their relationship will always be damaged. I would rather she be kicked out and live with friends or the father until she can make arrangements on her own and have that child. Right now she is running only on emotions not on logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 From listening to stories from a former PP doctor who performed abortions (thousands), PP not only encourages abortions, but they purposefully prescribed low dose mini-pills so that the young ladies they work with will get pregnant again "on the pill." (At least at this facility) Then guess what? They get to perform another abortion and make more money. The girls end up using abortion itself as birth control. So very sad. I think there must be a misunderstanding here. I can imagine the doctor saying that they put the girls on the minipill and they ended up coming back for another abortion, because that is bound to happen occasionally. If a patient wants to start oral contraceptives after an abortion, many physicians will start them on the mini-pill instead of the combination pill, because it is probably safer. After an abortion (or delivery) some women are hypercoagulable (more likely to have a blood clot). Combination OCs are known to increase the risk of blood clots in susceptible women, while mini-pills don't raise the risk. So lots of doctors will put them on the mini-pill for about 6 weeks and then switch. Unfortunately, the mini-pill isn't quite as effective (~93% vs ~98%, depending on who you ask), and occasionally someone will get pregnant again. If somebody is doing this because they want to do more abortions, they are extremely confused about their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rita Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I agree. I would let her know too that being kicked out is scary as h&*^ BUT it is a far more difficult to overcome an abortion. Like I mentioned in my earlier post I was kicked out the day I found out I was pg. My mom told me from the time I was 13 on I would be. I was 20 and a university student not a teen but she was true to her word and I was out on my a$$. It was scary, it did make things harder BUT it was something easy to remedy in a very short time. The end result was that it made me a better mother because I was forced to care for my son 100% on my own. WIth this being her motivator to have an abortion, I can almost guarantee she will resent her mother for the rest of her life, likely move out within the year anyway and their relationship will always be damaged. I would rather she be kicked out and live with friends or the father until she can make arrangements on her own and have that child. Right now she is running only on emotions not on logic. :grouphug: I'm so sorry that you had to endure that. I clicked on your blog link, and your family is beautiful. Rita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 So the woman would be paying legal fees to take her case to court? just as if she wanted to kill her born child *now* --absolutely. Who's deciding? The government? ayup. That's the gvt's job. They already have an extensive court system in place. Can you think of another civil entity that should be deciding whether it's ok to kill a human? I have a lot of question about the particulars, but outlawing "abortion on demand" doesn't sound like something I could support. I don't want the government or lawyers deciding what's a "justifiable reason." I place far more trust in individual women. I think we're just going to disagree here. yeah..... and many could have made the same argument about trusting individual slave owners far more than the gvt because slave owners had a vested interest in their property. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I think there must be a misunderstanding here. If a patient wants to start oral contraceptives after an abortion, many physicians will start them on the mini-pill instead of the combination pill, because it is probably safer. ..... If somebody is doing this because they want to do more abortions, they are extremely confused about their job. no --they weren't confused. they knew exactly what they were doing. They were doling out minipills *before* the abortions. That way they make money off the sale of both services. I'm sure it wasn't 'official' policy, just like it's not 'official policy' to gloss over maintenance issues in the aircraft industry, but it's expected. but as i mentioned earlier, i don't think everyone that works at PP is evil. I do think the organizations stated goals are incompatible w/ ethical decisions tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 no --they weren't confused. they knew exactly what they were doing.They were doling out minipills *before* the abortions. That way they make money off the sale of both services. How do you know this? You weren't the OP. From listening to stories from a former PP doctor who performed abortions (thousands), PP not only encourages abortions, but they purposefully prescribed low dose mini-pills so that the young ladies they work with will get pregnant again "on the pill." (At least at this facility) Then guess what? They get to perform another abortion and make more money. The girls end up using abortion itself as birth control. So very sad. They are talking about prescribing minipills after an Ab so the girls will get pregnant again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 How do you know this? You weren't the OP. They are talking about prescribing minipills after an Ab so the girls will get pregnant again. It's pretty well-known in the pro-life circles: there are a few ex-PP docs that have come out about this. You can probably find stories about that practice in a google search. If they are talking about doling out minipills AFTER an ab, then it's probably because the ab was the first contact PP had with the women. There are other cases where women come in for bc and get the low dose pills, then come in for an ab and leave w/ more pills. So I'm sure each individual case would vary from the OP's specific instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 It's pretty well-known in the pro-life circles: there are a few ex-PP docs that have come out about this. You can probably find stories about that practice in a google search. If they are talking about doling out minipills AFTER an ab, then it's probably because the ab was the first contact PP had with the women. There are other cases where women come in for bc and get the low dose pills, then come in for an ab and leave w/ more pills. So I'm sure each individual case would vary from the OP's specific instance. I did Google it and didn't find anything. First, if you wanted to cause more pregnancies, prescribing minipills would be a very ineffective way of doing it. It might cause a handful of additional pregnancies a year. I don't know exactly how compensation works for Ab providers, but I don't think they get paid per procedure, since PP is a non-profit organization. (Correct me if you know differently.) So doing more Abs wouldn't benefit any one financially. Even if they did profit, the actual amount would be so small that it wouldn't be worthwhile. Second, if the doctor was deliberately doing something to cause pregnancies, it is totally unethical and possibly illegal. Which casts great doubt on their credibility. Ditto if he knew the staff was doing something unethical and didn't report them. Most importantly, however, minipills are an accepted form of contraception, so claiming they were prescribing them to make someone pregnant is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwka Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresatwist Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 just as if she wanted to kill her born child *now* --absolutely. ayup. That's the gvt's job. They already have an extensive court system in place. Can you think of another civil entity that should be deciding whether it's ok to kill a human? yeah..... and many could have made the same argument about trusting individual slave owners far more than the gvt because slave owners had a vested interest in their property. :glare: Peekaboo, I think I said in my last post that I was not going to say anymore. I'm not. We disagree. I think your use of emoticons in your posts on this thread is insensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Yes, theresatwist, thank you. I wish we could leave this thread open for the OP.... Most importantly, however, minipills are an accepted form of contraception, so claiming they were prescribing them to make someone pregnant is ludicrous. Yes. I was on minipills for several years. They worked. I have endometriosis and estrogen helps it to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtroad Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 HEARTBEAT! I was proabortion- 100% until I heard the heartbeat! Not a Christian then either.... the heartbeat was my change of heart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) Most importantly, however, minipills are an accepted form of contraception, so claiming they were prescribing them to make someone pregnant is ludicrous. I agree. I'm not saying PP is above reproach, but this accusation just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Progesterone-only (or "mini") pills are only slightly less effective than regular pills. They are MORE effective than condoms, diaphragms, cervical caps, and sponges. So saying that they were prescribing this very effective contraception in order to cause pregnancy just doesn't add up. Edited July 16, 2009 by GretaLynne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamamace Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I of course am not the ex-abortion provider that was speaking. I was just paraphrasing what was communicated. Yes, I'm sure mini-pills do work in many cases. Everyone's system is different. As for abortion or PP being non-profit, I don't quite understand b/c billions are being made by someone. Abortion is a multibillion-dollar industry, Government grants and contracts provide $305 million to Planned Parenthood annually! Another $139 million annually is revenue from abortion! Entrepreneurial business types, hired doctors and clinic employees profit handsomely from the abortion industry. An abortion doctor is paid cash, up front, before any service is rendered. Working only four hours per day and only four days a week, a doctor performing thirty first trimester abortions per day, each costing $500, can easily gross $60,000 per week. Imagine the profit for second trimester abortions costing $1,000 and third trimester abortions costing upward of $3,000 each. http://www.catholicnews-tt.net/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=418:lt260409&catid=73:2009&Itemid=73 I keep thinking about the young girl and wondering what is going through her mind and heart. Keep up the prayers everyone who is praying for her. Miracles can happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I did Google it and didn't find anything. Bernard Nathanson and Mary L. Davenport have both spoken about this practice. First, if you wanted to cause more pregnancies, prescribing minipills would be a very ineffective way of doing it. It might cause a handful of additional pregnancies a year. ..... Most importantly, however, minipills are an accepted form of contraception, so claiming they were prescribing them to make someone pregnant is ludicrous minipills have a bit higher failure rate than regular pills, so it's not "ludicrous." women are more apt to use pills than methods that have a MUCH higher rate, so PP goes with whatever their clients will take. at 200-800 bucks a pop, "a handful" of extra abortions can still be pretty lucrative. Multiplied by clinics across the country. I don't know exactly how compensation works for Ab providers, but I don't think they get paid per procedure, since PP is a non-profit organization. (Correct me if you know differently.) So doing more Abs wouldn't benefit any one financially. Even if they did profit, the actual amount would be so small that it wouldn't be worthwhile. Most abortion doctors get a salary. Staying employed depends on having clients. A non-profit organization can still make money and pay big salaries -they just have to be more careful about how those profits are directed [like to new facilities designed for late term abortions]. PP makes quite a bit of money. Non-profit does NOT mean non-money. Second, if the doctor was deliberately doing something to cause pregnancies, it is totally unethical and possibly illegal. Which casts great doubt on their credibility. Ditto if he knew the staff was doing something unethical and didn't report them. well, yeah. But since PP has already been outed as doing something "totally unethical and possible illegal" in protecting child rapists, I'm more likely to believe someone who STOPPED contributing to the unethical practices than people who continue to do them. Again: "unwritten industry standards" are a serious problem, and the abortion industry is not the only one w/ illegal/unethical unwritten standards. And it's certainly not immune to unethical/illegal practices. I think your use of emoticons in your posts on this thread is insensitive. I'm sure you do. I find the intentional killing of a developing human insensitive. And fighting to protect the right to kill a developing human for convenience insensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah CB Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 This is a very good friend of my daughters... she is about 19 yrs old...doesn't want to be a mom right now... hadn't "planned" on this happening and this is a new boyfriend that she hasn't dated very long at all... She is going to a planned parenthood counseling appt today... Planned parenthood convinced my sister that her baby was just a "clump of cells". I hate PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) Yes, I'm sure mini-pills do work in many cases. Everyone's system is different. In upwards of 95% of cases, yes, it works. It apparently has decreased effectiveness in women who are overweight/obese. Otherwise, it's very reliable. And I certainly didn't mean to accuse you of making up this story, or anything like that! I've heard too many bad stories about PP to continue to turn a blind eye. But this one is just hard for me to swallow. There are many less effective methods they could recommend if they were deliberately trying to cause pregnancies. Plus, it's one thing for me to believe that people could manipulate a young pregnant woman into an abortion (sadly, I DO believe that happens), but another to believe that people would intentionally cause pregnancies in order to perform abortions. That's just so awful on so many levels that I have to remain skeptical. As for abortion or PP being non-profit, I don't quite understand b/c billions are being made by someone.I certainly agree with you on this. PP charges money for their services. I *think* they use a sliding-scale based on income, at least for some things. But they are still getting paid. I keep thinking about the young girl and wondering what is going through her mind and heart. Keep up the prayers everyone who is praying for her. Miracles can happen!And thankfully, we can wholeheartedly agree on this as well. I have been praying for her to find the strength and courage to keep her baby, and will certainly continue to do so. Edited July 16, 2009 by GretaLynne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Planned parenthood convinced my sister that her baby was just a "clump of cells". I hate PP. I used to think people were exaggerating or making up these kinds of stories. But I have heard too many of them to believe that any more. Things like refusing to tell a young woman what her due date was, saying that an ultrasound was "just not possible", etc. I don't even understand. If this is supposed to be about a woman's "choice", how is it okay to manipulate her into a certain choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Planned parenthood convinced my sister that her baby was just a "clump of cells". I hate PP. I wish there was an "I agree" that isn't so happy... There isn't, so, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 In upwards of 95% of cases, yes, it works. It apparently has decreased effectiveness in women who are overweight/obese. Otherwise, it's very reliable. Forgetting a Mini-Pill or taking it late increases the chance of pregnancy more than missing a regular birth control pill. There are many less effective methods they could recommend if they were deliberately trying to cause pregnancies. But pills are one of the most socially acceptable methods. Plus, it's one thing for me to believe that people could manipulate a young pregnant woman into an abortion (sadly, I DO believe that happens), but another to believe that people would intentionally cause pregnancies in order to perform abortions. That's just so awful on so many levels that I have to remain skeptical. history and psychology show that once you cross one line, crossing the next isn't so difficult. Few things shock me about abortionists anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I used to think people were exaggerating or making up these kinds of stories. But I have heard too many of them to believe that any more. Things like refusing to tell a young woman what her due date was, saying that an ultrasound was "just not possible", etc. I don't even understand. If this is supposed to be about a woman's "choice", how is it okay to manipulate her into a certain choice? Go and talk to them yourself as a pregnant woman. They likely won't insist on a pregnancy test if you tell them you already know you're pregnant. Just talk. And listen. I don't think you'd get a "horror story" at every PP you visited, but even just one would be troubling. Or try working at a PP. I do think that first hand knowledge is better than second hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresatwist Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Bernard Nathanson and Mary L. Davenport have both spoken about this practice. minipills have a bit higher failure rate than regular pills, so it's not "ludicrous." women are more apt to use pills than methods that have a MUCH higher rate, so PP goes with whatever their clients will take. at 200-800 bucks a pop, "a handful" of extra abortions can still be pretty lucrative. Multiplied by clinics across the country. Most abortion doctors get a salary. Staying employed depends on having clients. A non-profit organization can still make money and pay big salaries -they just have to be more careful about how those profits are directed [like to new facilities designed for late term abortions]. PP makes quite a bit of money. Non-profit does NOT mean non-money. well, yeah. But since PP has already been outed as doing something "totally unethical and possible illegal" in protecting child rapists, I'm more likely to believe someone who STOPPED contributing to the unethical practices than people who continue to do them. Again: "unwritten industry standards" are a serious problem, and the abortion industry is not the only one w/ illegal/unethical unwritten standards. And it's certainly not immune to unethical/illegal practices. I'm sure you do. I find the intentional killing of a developing human insensitive. And fighting to protect the right to kill a developing human for convenience insensitive. You can treat people with respect even when you don't agree with them. Not doing so does nothing to advance your argument or cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherLynn Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 It's everybodies business when the life of a child is a stake. AMEN! I 100% agree. Honestly, I was pro-life long before I was Christian. Ending an innocent life is just wrong, period. No matter what your belief system is. I would go through any lengths to try to talk someone out of an abortion. I wish you the best. Has she not explored placing for adoption? We have an open adoption with our birthmom where she even gets to come see him. It works well for everyone. Adoptions can be as open or as closed as she likes, provided the family she chooses is onboard with her wishes. There are so many better options without killing that baby that didn't ask to be conceived in the first place. And if she uses the argument that it is not a baby yet, remind her that if it is not a baby, then she is not pregnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 And if she uses the argument that it is not a baby yet, remind her that if it is not a baby, then she is not pregnant. :iagree: Why have I never heard so brilliant (and succinct) an observation in all of my life ? ! ? ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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